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Thread: The non-toy Star Wars discussion thread

  1. #21
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    Default The Bechdel Test

    The Prequel Trilogy cops a lot of flak from fans, and sure, a lot of it is warranted. But there are arguably some things that the Prequel Trilogy did better in over the Original, and one of them being greater representative gender equality. One common way to test for gender equality in stories is through what is known as the Bechdel Test, which simply presents 3 conditions:
    • 1. The movie must have at least two women in it

    • 2. Who talk to each other

    • 3. About something besides a man



    In the Original Trilogy, there are few women in the story, they don't talk to each other, and of course that disqualifies the last condition. In the Prequel Trilogy we do see moments such as:
    * Queen Amidala speaking with her servants (including giving cryptic messages to her decoy)
    * Senator Amidala speaking with Queen Jamillia about Naboo's support for the Republic (and democracy) and the possibility of reconciliation with the Separatists.
    * Senator Amidala with Mon Mothma regarding corruption in the Supreme Chancellor and the Senate.

  2. #22
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    Ok that's one thing, although it is posible that all the women of Naboo may be emotionless robots.

    Actually most of the people of the Republic, but anyway......

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Zed View Post
    Ok that's one thing, although it is posible that all the women of Naboo may be emotionless robots.

    Actually most of the people of the Republic, but anyway......
    Sounds like a pretty accurate representation of most governments then.

  4. #24
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    Debbie does Dallas passes the Bechdel test, it's a meaningless benchmark.

  5. #25
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    Haven't seen that movie, so I can't comment.

    From Limitations and Criticisms of the Bechdel Test:
    FiveThirtyEight* '​s writer Walt Hickey noted that the test does not measure whether a film is a model of gender equality, and that passing it does not ensure the quality of writing, significance or depth of female roles—but, he wrote, "it's the best test on gender equity in film we have — and, perhaps more important ..., the only test we have data on".

    Also, the Bechdel Test has inspired other tests for evaluating gender equality in fiction, such as the Finkbeiner Test, the Mori Mako Test, and the Sexy Lamp Test etc.

  6. #26
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutsman Heavy View Post
    Debbie does Dallas passes the Bechdel test, it's a meaningless benchmark.
    i lol'd. loudly.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutsman Heavy View Post
    Debbie does Dallas passes the Bechdel test, it's a meaningless benchmark.
    Gold! Bloody gold!

  8. #28
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    Getting back to the topic of Star Wars...

    Thought of the Day: Dealing In Absolutes

    The Temptation of Anakin Skywalker
    Anakin maimed and killed Mace Windu in an act of rage, which made him then pledge allegiance to Palpatine and the Dark Side of the Force. He suddenly went from being a Jedi hero to becoming the Dark Lord of the Sith, capable of murdering innocents, including children.

    The Temptation of Luke Skywalker
    Luke maimed and nearly killed Darth Vader in a fit of rage after Vader threatened to turn Leia to the Dark Side if Luke refused. However, Luke was able to calm himself down, cast aside his light sabre and bring himself back to the Light Side of the Force.

    Some would argue that Luke's reaction was more realistic. Being angry and even losing your temper doesn't necessarily make you an evil person. Good people can experience bouts of anger, but it doesn't necessarily make them bad people per se. Luke's reaction was one of, "I was really angry before, but I'm better now. Thanks."

    Obi-Wan told Vader that only Siths deal in absolutes, and this does appear to be true as the Sith seem to have this view that a single act of rage can permanently damn you to a life dedicated to darkness. But... the Jedi also seem to have the same ideology too (just on the other end of the scale). The Jedi are known for denying negative emotions such as anger (rather than say, accepting that you can be angry and learning to manage one's anger, and that the anger doesn't have to define you). Yoda also explicitly told Luke that if he takes a single step towards the Dark Side, that it would consume him and forevermore control his destiny. This was proven to be false, as Luke did take a step toward the Dark Side, but was able to recoil from it with relative ease. Going nuts against Vader and chopping off his father's hand didn't eternally damn Luke. Luke got over it; he knew that he wasn't a bad person, just a good person who got angry and made a bad choice. Because good people can make bad decisions (and bad people can make good decisions). It's not all about absolute black and white morality, there are shades of grey!

    The Prophecy of the Chosen One
    So perhaps Anakin was indeed the Chosen One who did finally bring balance of the Force, because he and Luke were able to do something that no other Jedi or Sith (in the films anyway) was able to do -- stop dealing in absolutes! They were able to balance themselves by accepting that good people can make bad decisions. In the end, Anakin realised that although he had done terrible things as Vader, these deeds did not define him. He could still be the good person that he was, and thus chose to kill Palpatine in order to save his son at the cost of his own life. And he saved the galaxy too, as Anakin finally realised that Master Windu was right -- Palpatine was too dangerous to be left alive. His absolute control over the courts would mean that he would never be fairly trialled.

    Hopes for the Sequels
    Among other things, I'm hoping for...
    1) Better gender representation in the films.
    2) The new Jedi being much like Luke and post-Vader Anakin, and not dealing in absolutes. The EU stuff hinted at stuff like this, with the New Jedi Order being allowed to indulge in certain emotions that were forbidden to the Jedi of the old Order, such as love. Anakin Skywalker had to marry Padmé Amidala in secret because the monastic Jedi Order forbade it, but in the New Order, Luke married Mara Jade, Leia married Han Solo etc., and they had families. I don't know if the sequel movies will also follow suit with this, but I hope that they do, as IMHO, it makes sense. The Sith that we see may be those who are still clinging onto the old ideas of dealing in absolutes... and it will be interesting to see how the new "emotionally balanced" Jedi deal with them, vs the "emotionally restrained" Jedi of the old Order. The idea is that the Old Jedi and Sith represent two extremes, neither of which is right. Sith being too emotional, and the Old Jedi not being emotional enough. The New Jedi should hopefully be trying to strike that balance.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gutsman Heavy View Post
    Debbie does Dallas passes the Bechdel test, it's a meaningless benchmark.

  10. #30
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    Apparently they're looking for an actor to play a young Han Solo.
    http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/...10-gi927f.html

    I quite like the idea of either Chris Pratt or even Chris Pine playing the role. Not sure about the others ... definitely not LaBeouf. (-_-) Josh Duhamel might not be so bad.

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