The non-toy Star Wars discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

Brief thoughts about Eps 1-2 of Obi-Wan Kenobi (SPOILERS).

It is a grimdark world, which makes sense because life is meant to suck under the Empire. A lot of people, especially Obi-Wan Kenobi, have lost hope. Again, this makes sense, because the activation of Luke Skywalker brings forth 'A New Hope.' But in order for hope to exist, you must first have despair - and this series is showing us a galaxy in despair.

Some people have criticised this series as being arguably not dark enough. Um... this isn't The Boys or Invicible... it has to be accessible to kids too. And it is already pretty dark from a kid audience POV. I would argue that it's an even darker tone than The Empire Strikes Back, and that is known for being the darkest of the Original Trilogy films; because as dire as things were for the Rebellion, the main protagonist was not a broken man. If anything, he was over enthusiastic and went against Yoda's advice to stay put; whereas Obi-Wan Kenobi is dispassionate and reluctant to act (as per Yoda's orders). He had to be coaxed by Bail to take action.

Leia has obviously had more screen time than Luke so far. I love the way that little Leia is portrayed; especially with her fearlessness, guile and intelligence; traits that we see 20 year old Leia exhibit even in front of Darth Vader. There's a theory that Leia mildly tapped into the Force when she was able to sense her cousin's feelings and dish out some verbal smackdown.

Some have said that Obi-Wan leaving Tatooine and meeting 10 year old Leia breaks canon; as Obi-Wan is supposed to have remained on Tatooine continuously for 20 years, and that Leia never met Obi-Wan Kenobi. But... I dunno. Admittedly I'm not very familiar with all the stories beyond the films, but AFAIK it wasn't established in the movies that Kenobi never left Tatooine at all. Why can't he have the occasion excursion to other worlds? So long as he spends the bulk of his time near Luke. As for Leia and Kenobi... in Ep 2 he only ever tells her that his name is "Ben." Leia even says that it's "not a very Jedi name," and Obi-Wan insists that that is his name. He also never tells Leia his surname, so she only knows him as "Ben." When Leia records the message for Obi-Wan Kenobi, she doesn't see an image of him; she's just looking at Artoo Detoo. So it's possible that Leia never knew what Obi-Wan Kenobi looked like and never made the connection that Obi-Wan Kenobi was also Ben. She also never really met Obi-Wan either; at best, she caught a glimpse of him from a distance fighting Darth Vader (with his hood up no less), before he sacrificed himself to Vader and became a pile of rags on the floor. Now Leia most likely discovered later on that Obi-Wan Kenobi was also known as Ben Kenobi and made the connection afterwards, but not while she was recording the message for Obi-Wan. So I think it still makes sense for her to say, "Years ago you helped my father in the Clone Wars," as opposed to "Years ago you saved me from kidnappers". She didn't know that they were the same person.

Future episodes may prove me wrong on this, we'll see.

And how stupid is Obi-Wan Kenobi for not freaking having a shave while he's in hiding? You know that you're a wanted man and that the Empire are hunting Jedi. Surely you would do more to change your appearance. Frankly, it would have made sense for Obi-Wan Kenobi to have remained clean shavened throughout the entire Prequel Trilogy era, and then only grew a beard after he went into hiding as a deliberate way to change his looks. I've also never really liked how the Prequels established Obi-Wan's costume in A New Hope as the "Jedi uniform." It was never the Jedi uniform in the Original Trilogy; it was just regular Tatooine commoner clothes that Obi-Wan wore because he was in freaking hiding! We see Owen Lars and Luke Skywalker wear pretty much the same style of clothes - Owen even also has a hooded cloak! They're not dressed as Jedi, they're dressed as freaking commoners! One thing I was looking forward to seeing in the Prequels before Episode I came out was how the Jedi dressed. I was mildly disappointed to see them all dressed like peasantry. :/ And it really makes no sense for Obi-Wan to be dressed as a bloody Jedi knight when he's still in hiding... sneaking around Stormtroopers in Mos Eisley... sneaking around the freaking Death Star... how stupid are you to be sneaking around in the galaxy dressed as the very thing that the Empire has been actively hunting down for decades?

"Let me just maintain my beard and later dress like I did during the Clone Wars while I'm a wanted man. Genius!"

[Tha_Phantom]

"Let me just maintain my beard and later dress like I did during the Clone Wars while I'm a wanted man. Genius!"

Yeah, George really left it like nothing was supposed to happen during the 19 year interval between eps 3 and 4.

Anyway, quite enjoyed the first two eps of Kenobi. Young Leia was pretty well written and they didn't go overboard with the hints of force sensitivity.
The part where Obi Wan spoke about her mother to her (without her knowing that's who he was talking about) hit me in the feels too.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I agree with most of what you said Gok, but disagree on the costumes part and would point out:

1. Jedi Robes looking like they do was established back in the original trilogy; if you recall at the end of Return of the Jedi, the ORIGINAL Anakin Skywalker Force ghost (portrayed by Sebastian Shaw) is wearing the same Jedi Robes. The same could be argued for Yoda?s outfit in ESB, though less obvious.

2. Obi Wan?s costume in the series is definitely not the full Jedi outfit - he has what is probably a generic hooded robe, but the underlayer is definitely different. So there is some attempt to disguise himself. Plus, as you stated yourself, the Jedi outfit is a common looking outfit. Hiding in plain sight especially on Tatooine clearly worked for Obi Wan.

I just watched the opening sequence with Order 66 again and thought it was awesome, though on reflection it doesn?t make sense that the Jedi Master is doing Jedi-Chi completely oblivious to the chaos and death of Order 66 happening at the same time.

I also have questions about the hygiene practices of Obi Wan?s meat processing plant

[Seraphim Prime]

Anyway, quite enjoyed the first two eps of Kenobi. Young Leia was pretty well written and they didn't go overboard with the hints of force sensitivity.
The part where Obi Wan spoke about her mother to her (without her knowing that's who he was talking about) hit me in the feels too.

Loved young Leia - very feisty and self-assured and you get so much of who she will become in both the original and sequel trilogy.

I had read your comment about describing her mother before seeing the second episode, so was ready to hear how he describes Padme. But I thought it could be even more about Duchess Satine from the Clone Wars series - a love that Obi Wan had that he put aside for his commitment to the Jedi order - but it was clever writing to allow it easily seen as either and therefore making sense to people - both who had only seen the movies, and those who have gone deeper.

[GoktimusPrime]

https://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpor...e-star-wars-2/

So apparently Porsche co-designed the Tri-Wing starfighter seen in Obi-Wan Kenobi. Does this mean that Porsche has finally changed their minds on having their brand being affiliated with war (even if it's fantasy war, like the Transformers)? Or is this an exception because the Tri-Wing isn't an actual Porsche vehicle? Part of me hopes that this means that Porsche is changing their stance and that we may finally see them allow Hasbro to use the Porsche licence for Transformers... but I'm most likely being far too optimistic here.

1. Jedi Robes looking like they do was established back in the original trilogy; if you recall at the end of Return of the Jedi, the ORIGINAL Anakin Skywalker Force ghost (portrayed by Sebastian Shaw) is wearing the same Jedi Robes. The same could be argued for Yoda?s outfit in ESB, though less obvious.

Hhmmm... that's a good point about Anakin's Force Ghost. I can concede that this illogical retcon was made as early as Return of the Jedi, but I don't see it with Yoda in TESB. Yoda is just wearing a rather bland set of rags, really. Even in ROTS Yoda has to lose his cloak to reveal his unconventional costume underneath.

I just watched the opening sequence with Order 66 again and thought it was awesome, though on reflection it doesn?t make sense that the Jedi Master is doing Jedi-Chi completely oblivious to the chaos and death of Order 66 happening at the same time.

I assume that those Clones were among the first to open fire, thus not causing any disturbance in the Force. I suppose that the attack on the Jedi Temple had to be one where the Clones march into the place and assume key positions before simultaneously attacking multiple places at the same time. Cos sieging the front and working their way in would alert the rest of the Jedi and allow them to mount defences/counterattacks. I know that we see Vader and the Imperial Clones march into the Temple from the entrance, but we don't see them firing until they're inside the building. While seeing them march in might have looked odd, as the Jedi still saw them as friendlies, and being led by a member of the Jedi Council no less, they would have been very much off guard.

I really loved seeing the Jedi practising a form; Star Wars canon has established the Jedi's lightsabre art as containing seven forms. I assume that those Padawans were prasctising Form I, which was also the same form that Obi-Wan Kenobi was teaching Luke Skywalker aboard the Millennium Falcon (when Luke was practising against the remote).

I also have questions about the hygiene practices of Obi Wan?s meat processing plant

This is a planet that still has slavery... don't think they care too much about hygiene laws! Also, Obi-Wan eats bugs. Nicking a piece of giant space-sashimi is probably a real treat for him. Although I do like how the bug-eating thing is also a nod at that episode from Clone Wars where Anakin taught Obi-Wan how to eat bugs (when they were stuck in that prolonged siege and their rations were running low).

It was also really cool and sad to see Obi-Wan's reaction when that Inquisitor told him that Darth Vader survived Mustafa. I hadn't thought about it before, but yeah, from Obi-Wan's POV he would have assumed that Vader perished on Mustafa. He never knew that Palpatine rescued him and rebuilt him as a cyborg. And yet, he did know about cyborg Vader in A New Hope, since he tells Luke that Vader is, "More machine now than man. Twisted and evil." ←I expect that the series will lead up to something where Obi-Wan encounters or sees cyborg Vader. This could actually fill in that little continuity gap quite nicely. And the Original Trilogy never said that Obi-Wan and Vader never encountered each other since the fall of the Republic. In A New Hope, Vader simply says, "I presence I haven't felt since..." before storming out of the room. He never finished that sentence, so it's plausible that they could meet in the Obi-Wan series and that Vader's line in ANH was referring to that moment, and not their last encounter on Mustafa.

[Seraphim Prime]

It was also really cool and sad to see Obi-Wan's reaction when that Inquisitor told him that Darth Vader survived Mustafa. I hadn't thought about it before, but yeah, from Obi-Wan's POV he would have assumed that Vader perished on Mustafa. He never knew that Palpatine rescued him and rebuilt him as a cyborg. And yet, he did know about cyborg Vader in A New Hope, since he tells Luke that Vader is, "More machine now than man. Twisted and evil." ?I expect that the series will lead up to something where Obi-Wan encounters or sees cyborg Vader. This could actually fill in that little continuity gap quite nicely. And the Original Trilogy never said that Obi-Wan and Vader never encountered each other since the fall of the Republic. In A New Hope, Vader simply says, "I presence I haven't felt since..." before storming out of the room. He never finished that sentence, so it's plausible that they could meet in the Obi-Wan series and that Vader's line in ANH was referring to that moment, and not their last encounter on Mustafa.

I also liked this because I was actually thinking about who knows whether Darth Vader is Anakin Skywalker
Tarkin in Episode IV tells Vader that he is all that is left of that old (Jedi) order - and had worked beside Anakin as a Republic general in The Clone Wars.

[XMan]

I have enjoyed the first 3 eps very much, I'm waiting to watch the other 3 in one go. ROgue One still, for me, holds the best Vader scene, but watching him walk through Tatooine braking necks was amazing, Then what he did to Ben...

[Tha_Phantom]

watching him walk through Tatooine braking necks was amazing, Then what he did to Ben...

Yeah, you could really feel the hatred. I can't wait to see their next encounter, if there is one (and no I don't mean A New Hope).