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Thread: A journey through the JP Gen1 cartoon.

  1. #21
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    I've just finished up to 'Planet Cybertron is in Grave Danger (Part 1)' myself and I've got to say, Rodimus' whole 'I've got to go on this journey you see' thing is really odd to say the least - what is more odd is how Daniel is seemingly able to breath within the Vacuum of space unassisted whilst standing on the ruins of Cybertron!?!

    I agree with pretty much all of the comments made thus far on the Headmaster series and although the Language Barrier sort of causes a bit of distancing or detached-immersion , I've got to say though I am quite enjoying the series - seeing all the new/old characters and more combiner time , although the combiners do always seem to be combined and fighting each other for no explicable reason? , as it's increasing my urge to see the rest of the Japanese series up to Beast Wars II/Neo - so long as they've got subtitles.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    It's not just demeaning, but also a waste of characters. Carly and Arcee add nothing to the series, and if they didn't exist, the series/storyline wouldn't be impacted at all.
    Such a shame, especially with Arcee.
    Yeah but one could also argue that Season 3's story wouldn't be impacted at all if you removed Daniel and Wheelie. So if anything, they're being consistent with keeping them bloody useless and Jar Jar Binkish. It totally does suck how Arcee is relegated as Fortress Maximus' beeotch.

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    I loved Rebirth... more happened, and made more sense (and respected existing characters), so this JP alternative is disappointing.
    Personally I really prefer The Headmasters despite its weak start. The Rebirth kinda had an exciting start (ooh, look at all those new toys/characters) but then didn't really go anywhere with it. While it's true that some characters get sweet scrap all character development, like the individual gestalt members (poor Suiken needs more love ), other characters do get pretty decent character development though, especially Sixshot -- I was quite impressed with his character development... much better than what Rebirth gave us. (and Daniel actually contributes to his development too - arguably the only scrappin' useful thing he's ever done in the entire cartoon continuity!)

    But there are some more painful things to come... one of the lamest moments would have to be the death of Ultra Magnus *shudder* -- possibly the stupidest Transformers death scene ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    We get to see another flashback of Planet Master, which had Sixshot there before the Headmaster process was done.

    Okay, now how can someone who has been around since the first episode, somehow manage to not be recognised by anyone, including his fellow Decepticons?
    Cos he's a ninja

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    An animation error that made me laugh - when the Protectobots and Aerialbot first arrive to fight off Galvatron, Superion is drawn instead of Silverbolt, so we have a small sized Superion running alongside his four 'limbs'.
    Mebbe it's that undersized knockoff Superion.

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    So Rodimus just up and leaves, with the Matrix... with new-comer Fortress in command instead of Ultra Magnus, who was Optimus Prime's prefered replacement (in the movie).
    Yup! Makes Optimus Prime's comments to Rodimus Prime in The Rude Awakening of Optimus Prime all the more funnier. Although, considering how freakishly easy it is for Sixshot to kill Ultra Magnus, maybe it was better off for Rodimus to keep the Matrix^give the Matrix to Fortress Maximus!

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    And can Arcee be potrayed as being any more useless because she's a female? Actually, Blurr and Kup weren't much use either while Rodimus was fighting Galvatron. But when those other three depart to look for a new world (they already live on Earth and Athenia, so why look for a new planet), they don't want Arcee to come along because she is only good for babysitting Daniel.
    In the Movie, she seemed to have a 'bigger pair' than Hot Rod, and was hardened warrior all the way through to Rebirth in the US series... so this just seems like a real waste of a character.
    Unfortunately Japan is still considerably behind the West when it comes to gender issues. The way that Arcee and Carly are portrayed in this series is typical of conservative Japanese views toward females, stemming from feudal Bushido values where even a woman's son (especially the eldest son) outranks her (hence why Daniel was opted above her to go on that stupid mission).

    Quote Originally Posted by Hursticon View Post
    I've just finished up to 'Planet Cybertron is in Grave Danger (Part 1)' myself and I've got to say, Rodimus' whole 'I've got to go on this journey you see' thing is really odd to say the least
    And Rodimus took the freakin' Matrix with him!! (o_O) Yeah, leave Fortress Maximus in charge of the war effort and DON'T give him the Matrix. Riiight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hursticon
    - what is more odd is how Daniel is seemingly able to breath within the Vacuum of space unassisted whilst standing on the ruins of Cybertron!?!
    Yeah but that's not anything new to The Headmasters. In Transformers The Movie Springer is able to fly out of Unicron and into space in his helicopter mode (how the scrap does a chopper fly in a vacuum?!?) and even in the pre-movie G1 eps, we saw humans breathing on Cybertron. Cybertron has Earth-like atmosphere despite an obvious absence of oceans and plants (at least, on the surface of the planet - the water and organic life buried deep at Cybertron's core wouldn't be enough to sustain an atmosphere that could be breathed by humans - and even if it could, wouldn't the Transformers rust? Oh wait, they're rust-proof (as Megatron stated in "Cosmic Rust" - convenient ). Cybertron even has a breathable atmosphere in the G1 comics too, although at least the comics did state that the actual structure of the planet is entirely different from Earth's (hence why the mutant Dynamo's ability to tap energy on Cybertron was severely stunted compared to his powers on Earth).

    Then there's everyone's favourite reality-bending concept in Transformers...
    mass shifting!

    Later on you'll see that the Trainbots are the same size as Earth trains because human-sized characters sit in them, but other times massive Transformers can board inside them too! -- huh?!? Although that's not much worse than TFTM where Starscream had to duck his head to come aboard Astrotrain, yet there's enough space inside him for the Constructicons to form Devastator!!

  3. #23
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    Sixshot (from what I've heard) is probably the only one with interesting character development in this series... which is a bit disappointing. Quite a few US Gen1 episodes focused on specific characters, with them learning something, or growing in some way, but it seems that Sixshot is the feature character in Headmasters when it comes to character development (so far). We keep having things happening, like Decepticons attacking or capturing stuff, but it's just happening for the sake of a large scale battle, instead of a small scale conflict that focuses on one or two characters.

    I do like having all this screen time with the Headmaster characters (some of my most wanted toys when I was growing up), but with each episode spending so much time with a drawn out fight, the less sense it makes with inconsistent events in the battle and the outcomes.


    Ep 11 - Zarak - the Shadow Emperor

    Zarak claims that Galvatron survived, and told him to command the Decepticons (which most of the others just accept), and his first act is to capture a Human energy satellite, so that it's energy can be sent to his hidden base/planet, called planet Zarak.
    While trying to recapture the satellite to bring back to Earth, the Autobots end up destroying it.

    We get to see some initiative from non-leadership Decepticons this time, with Scourge and Cyclonus off doing their own thing because they don't trust Zarak.

    When Zarak sends his own troops to capture the satellite, the Autobots on Earth don't detect their approach... the more distant Athenia base detects it. And only 4 Autobots are dispatched? (which are easily stopped by Sixshot, allowing the Satellite to be taken unchallenged)

    Zarak has his own planet? I guess the Decepticon Headmasters were building it while the Autobot Headmasters were building Planet Master. We now see shots of Zarak's larger body (called Scorponok in the US), but looks to be dormant or in storage waiting for something.

    Chromedome makes a move on Arcee, who is obviously just a token female character now.

    At an Autobot party, Wheelie gets drunk and Hardhead wants to do some karaoke. So sad...

    The Decepticon attack to destroy the satellite before it is launched - one shot from afar would have destroyed it, but the Decepticons are too busy flying in close, and wrestling with the Autobots.

    An energy satellite, that just looks like it just collects solar energy... wouldn't it be much cheaper having those solar cells on the planet's surface, like in a desert region?
    And if the satellite was that valuable, why not have it protected with defenses or guarded by someone?

    Chromedome apologises to Spike, as if he's the sole representative of the human race.

    A psychic beam will destroy the satellite by telepathy if he Autobots move it??? Could the Autobots be any more gullible?



    Ep 12 - The Dormant Volcano Mysteriously Erups

    To distract the Autobots from looking into his planet, Zarak has a volcano in South America erupt.


    The Japanese just can't write humans well in this cartoon. The ones in this episode are really annoying and painful to watch.


    Looks like I was wrong about the People from Planet Beast only showing up in one episode, as they appear briefly in this one as slaves for the Decepticons on Planet Zarak.

    Both Broadside and the Trainbots try to fly through the Volcano debris instead of around it, and as such are forced back.

    When the Trainbots get through to rescue the villagers, they people just stand around instead of rushing to safety.

    Gotta love the titles of the JP episodes. It's no wonder fans used to make fun of them, and create fake episode titles for upcoming series in a JP style.

    Broadside seems to be like Astrotrain - a huge jet mode to carry everyone, but a normal sized robot.

    Still can't get over the flying, and sometimes floating, trains (Trainbots).

    Zarak won't reveal his 'identity' to anyone yet, including the Decepticons... why?

    At the end, the South American kid is held hostage, and Weirdwolf demands the Autobots tell them their transforming technique. What technique? The Decepticons know how to transform, and the Autobots aren't doing anything special that the Decepticons can't see them doing (like swapping heads to combine abilities).


    Ep 13 - Head On, Fortress Maximus!

    Another attempt to distract the Autobots, Zarak sends a giant carnivorous plant to Earth and Athenia. To defeat it, Fortress must combine with his battleship to form Fortress Maximus.

    Fortress Maximus is finally revealed in robot form, but a plot device of a 'Master Sword' is suddenly mentioned as if it just materialised (on the bridge of the battleship, which even surprises Fortress), and is necessary for him to activate the transformation. That is just so Japanese... having a mysterious *sword* appear, that has super, mystical powers, for a race of mechanical, technological beings.


    So if Fortress (Cerebros) is the same size as the other four Autobot Headmasters, who are really their heads piloting the larger bodies (which they built on Planet Master), why don't we see the head of Fortress (Cerebros) ever detach and exist independently?

    The giant (organic) plants explode... huh?

    The plant on Athenia explodes when the one on Earth is destroyed, as if they are somehow linked, and everyone seems to know it afterwards.

    Zarak sits in a fully lit room, and yet is still shown as a shadow. I can see the need for the dramatic mystery, but at least give a reason as to why he's in permanent shadow.

    The episode ends with the narrator asking the audience what could Zarak be building... um, we've already been shown what he is building. His Scorponok body.

  4. #24
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    Looks like sitting through these eps is becoming more strenuous than you had initially hoped Griff

    I gave up after about 10 mins skipping through one episode. Found it too irritating and difficult to watch. I suppose the japanese series wasn't made for a US G1 worshipping audience though?

  5. #25
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    I think I got up to ep 11 (but I may have seen 12 too. I never saw Fort Max transform though) before I jumped ahead to Masterforce. I need to go back someday and watch the rest of Headmasters.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    The Japanese just can't write humans well in this cartoon. The ones in this episode are really annoying and painful to watch.
    Kaneda Masumi is hardly representative of all Japanese animation writers. Criticise Kaneda all you want, but I think it's a tad unfair to blanketly blame all Japanese anime writers based on just his work. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    Fortress Maximus is finally revealed in robot form, but a plot device of a 'Master Sword' is suddenly mentioned as if it just materialised (on the bridge of the battleship, which even surprises Fortress), and is necessary for him to activate the transformation. That is just so Japanese... having a mysterious *sword* appear, that has super, mystical powers, for a race of mechanical, technological beings.
    Magical swords are a staple of mythology as they're a more personal and romantic weapon compared to range weapons (e.g. guns) - Excalibur, Kusanagi, Hrunting, He-Man's Power Sword, Narsil/Andúril - one may argue that it seems strange in a "science fiction" setting, but even light sabres in Star Wars were portrayed as 'magical' weapons, like the scene where Obi-Wan Kenobi gives Luke Skywalker his father's light sabre.

    I suppose swords are more revered in Japanese pop culture, possibly because Bushido revered swords above guns as a more noble and honourable weapon (at least in theory - in reality the Samurai did use guns, particularly during the Sengoku and even early Tokugawa periods, although firearms were forbidden during most of the Bakumatsu and saw a revival toward the end of that period as the Meiji Revolution came in).

    "Not as clumsy or random as a blaster; an elegant weapon for a more civilised age." - Obi-Wan Kenobi

    But in reality guns totally pwn swords, as wonderfully demonstrated in this scene from Raiders of the Lost Ark.

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    So if Fortress (Cerebros) is the same size as the other four Autobot Headmasters, who are really their heads piloting the larger bodies (which they built on Planet Master), why don't we see the head of Fortress (Cerebros) ever detach and exist independently?
    We do see the smaller head of Fortress ("Spike") detach independently, but not often (spoiler pic)

    Quote Originally Posted by griffin
    Zarak sits in a fully lit room, and yet is still shown as a shadow. I can see the need for the dramatic mystery, but at least give a reason as to why he's in permanent shadow.
    He's a ninj--yeah okay, that is definitely just ridiculous. He should at least remain in a dark corner.

    Quote Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87 View Post
    Looks like sitting through these eps is becoming more strenuous than you had initially hoped Griff

    I gave up after about 10 mins skipping through one episode. Found it too irritating and difficult to watch. I suppose the japanese series wasn't made for a US G1 worshipping audience though?
    Also you guys are looking at it as adults whereas the show was intended for children who wouldn't have necessarily picked up on all these things at the time. If we plowed through the US cartoon we'd easily find all kinds of flaws there too... if nothing else, at least the continuity within Headmasters itself is relatively more consistent than that of the US series. Kaneda Masumi may not be a prolific anime writer (like say, Miyazaki Hayao), but at least having a single lead writer helps to ensure relatively more consistent continuity within the series itself (I know the continuity does conflict with G1 continuity elements written outside of the series, e.g. TFTM).

    Having said that, The Headmasters is widely considered even by Japanese fans to be the weakest of the JP G1 series. Masterforce and Victory are much better written and are more widely favoured by fans. Zone, even as a single episode OVA is not widely liked amongst Japanese fans. It does suffer from the "Rebirth" effect of shoving in a whole bunch of toys in a short span to advertise them, but Dai Atlas just really rubbed Japanese G1 fans the wrong way (similar to how a lot of fans have criticised ROTF Optimus Prime of just being too ruthless for an Autobot leader).

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulbot View Post
    I think I got up to ep 11 (but I may have seen 12 too. I never saw Fort Max transform though) before I jumped ahead to Masterforce. I need to go back someday and watch the rest of Headmasters.
    I personally think The Headmasters is worth watching to completion as I quite like its ending despite its lacklustre beginning. I find it a far more endurable watch than say, Beast Wars Neo - which I found utterly brain-numbingly dull, but I pushed on - and the final Angolmois quest and Unicron arc at the end was pretty good, but having to watch the rest of the series to get up to that point was just painful.

    But then again, it's probably relatively easier for me to sit through these series compared to non-Japanese speakers... <vague.shrug>

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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Magical swords are a staple of mythology as they're a more personal and romantic weapon compared to range weapons (e.g. guns) - Excalibur, Kusanagi, Hrunting, He-Man's Power Sword, Narsil/Andúril - one may argue that it seems strange in a "science fiction" setting, but even light sabres in Star Wars were portrayed as 'magical' weapons, like the scene where Obi-Wan Kenobi gives Luke Skywalker his father's light sabre.
    I 100% agree with this Goki - Swords are well and above better weapons than guns, IMO for this reason predominantly: There is no honour in killing a person with a gun, an infant can kill with a gun, but it takes true skill and technique to properly use a Sword/Kitana or their derivatives.

    Besides, who's ever heard of someone raising aloft their magic gun?
    (Alucard of Hellsing Excluded )

  8. #28
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    I don't regret watching this series, but it can look like I'm not enjoying it. On the contrary, all the bizarre and annoying stuff is making me watch it more, to comment on it.

    As for swords - I don't have a problem with them, and like the genres that heavily use them. I just find it difficult to blend the 'Fantasy' genre with the 'Science Fiction' genre, and make it believable. Even in He Man... where most of the power of the show comes from magic, with the swords either being for show or are able to shoot like guns anyway. When you have guns in a story universe, swords just can't compete (unless you have some sort of super-ninja warriors, like in GIJoe).

    But aside from that (because it is fiction after all, so anything is possible if it is explained in a plausible way), the sudden appearance of a sword on the bridge of a battleship that Fortress designed and constructed, shouldn't have been written as being a surprise to him. It's his ship/body... who else put the sword there? And why should his robot body (Transtector, as they are suddenly called in the next story) need a magic sword to transform, when everyone else does it by thought.

    Kaneda Masumi is hardly representative of all Japanese animation writers. Criticise Kaneda all you want, but I think it's a tad unfair to blanketly blame all Japanese anime writers based on just his work. :/
    I only said this cartoon, not all JP cartoons.
    Last edited by griffin; 8th January 2011 at 12:26 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87 View Post
    Looks like sitting through these eps is becoming more strenuous than you had initially hoped Griff

    I gave up after about 10 mins skipping through one episode. Found it too irritating and difficult to watch. I suppose the japanese series wasn't made for a US G1 worshipping audience though?
    I personally feel that the problem with Headmasters is that the Japanese tried to make it too 'American' without a proper understanding on how to do it and this caused it to become really odd and nonsensical with hybrid elements that don't go well together.

    Masterforce and Victory have characters and stories more in line with Japanese Anime without trying to be 'Sunbow G1' and although to an American audience they may seem odd, the story works much better as it's largely consistent with the Japanese style of animation and story telling and therefore more coherent even if somewhat distanced from 'Marvel style' Transformers.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hursticon View Post
    I 100% agree with this Goki - Swords are well and above better weapons than guns, IMO for this reason predominantly: There is no honour in killing a person with a gun, an infant can kill with a gun, but it takes true skill and technique to properly use a Sword/Kitana or their derivatives.
    For me, as far as romantic fantasy action is concerned, I prefer swords. As far as reality is concerned, I prefer guns!

    And yeah, when it comes to fantasy, it does become kinda silly when people use melee weapons like swords when everyone else are using range weapons like guns. That's part of the reason why George Lucas had to invent the Force for Star Wars, cos otherwise Jedi and Sith would easily get cut down by blaster shots. Likewise only Force-users can use light sabres, because a non Force-user would lack the ability to effectively use it to deflect blaster shots (they'd most likely just get shot and die). Basically light sabres only work because Jedi/Sith are "magical" warriors. But IMO The Headmasters portrays Fort Max's sword in a somewhat mystical light, ya know, with the whole song and dance sequence that happens every time he summons it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hursticon
    Besides, who's ever heard of someone raising aloft their magic gun?
    (Alucard of Hellsing Excluded )
    And Bruce Campbell (^O^)

    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    I personally feel that the problem with Headmasters is that the Japanese tried to make it too 'American' without a proper understanding on how to do it and this caused it to become really odd and nonsensical with hybrid elements that don't go well together.

    Masterforce and Victory have characters and stories more in line with Japanese Anime without trying to be 'Sunbow G1' and although to an American audience they may seem odd, the story works much better as it's largely consistent with the Japanese style of animation and story telling and therefore more coherent even if somewhat distanced from 'Marvel style' Transformers.
    That's a very common viewpoint about The Headmasters compared with the other Japanese G1 series. It's kinda like "weening" Japanese audiences off the US series, then by time we get to Masterforce things get a lot better because all ties with the US series have been severed and thus the stories in Masterforce and Victory are notably better (note: Masterforce and Victory were also principally written by Kaneda Masumi). Some fans (like Chris McFeeley (re: audio commentary) have described the final climactic battle between Star Sabre and Death Zaras as being of comparable awesomeness to the final fight between Optimus Prime and Megatron in Transformers The Movie. On the last day of school last year, I showed the final battle to my Year 8 class and despite the fact that (presumably) none of them had ever seen Transformers Victory before and probably had next to no knowledge of G1 (let alone Japanese G1), all the boys in the class (and some of the girls ) really enjoyed watching it.

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