a thought on these 3rd party products.

[Lord_Zed]

I'm happy to buy 3rd part products if they are awesome toys. I can understand why others might not want them in there collection, but as my collection is already of an eclectic nature there ok by me.

Nice analogy. I think I will use that from now on as well

As for 3rd party products, something that compliments my Classics figures (UM upgrade, Roadbuster upgrade, etc...) I find ok in my books. I already paid for the base figure, but I thought it was lacking a bit. These just make the base figure even better and a more G1 look. Defender (If I had mine) would be on the same page for me, even though it is a figure in itself, but the fact it fits in with my Classics figures is fine.

Then you have these bloody targetmasters, that have no real appeal to me because they do not add to the Classics feel for me. Easy pass for me. And the legends BB and CJ, I have the deluxe, why would I want them? Those are purely a cash grab.

I really don't understand this whole cash grab stuff that has been harped on about a few times in this thread. All these 3rd party companies exist to make profit last time I checked, so they must all be from Ferenginar if that's what wanting to make profit means. There all making things directly related to the Transformers franchise too. Clearly some companies seem to have done more research into what the fan market desires, I don't understand the scorn and negativity reserved for the other 3rd party companies. While I do agree those target master robot guys look pretty unappealing, I like that such things exist as in time they may hopefully spur innovation. And of course the more companies out there and increased competition should lead to better or cheaper products. Rome wasn't built in a day after all.

[UltraMarginal]

Wow, quite a lot of interest in this thread.

Purity of collection is an interesting question. I have always purchased nothing but originals. until I was in TRU Parramatta a few years ago (quite a few now), and there on the shelf was a re-issue Hotrod!! WOW $25, with inflation that's got to be cheaper than the original. something I'd always wanted but never been able to get hold of.
I bought it without thinking twice about it. In my eyes it was an exact replica of the original and an official product.

Another time I saw a KO of Darkwing from G1, I had dreadwind from when I was young, but could never get Darkwing. It was just some average $2 shop and the figure looked like it had all the necessary hooks to join up with Dreadwind. I got it, eventually took it home to my parents where my original collection sits, and lo and behold it's th wrong scale. It's on the shelf next to dreadwing but it's two tone cheap crappy plastic and only good to display in robot mode. but what do you expect for $4.

I never really consciously thought about the "purity"/"officialness" of my collection till then. but the darkwing is a placeholder for one day eventually getting the proper one either a re-issue or the original.

I have the city commander and consider it more an enhancement than an individual element.
I may get the rodimus trailer from FP but only to enhance that scale in my collection because I am for sure getting MP09.

I don't think the third party companies will individually ever take over HasTak in volume of sales or volume of molds, just because their target market is a subset of what HasTak produces. Even combined, they generally produce "add on" products that are useless on their own. And even though there have been a lot of smaller companies start up in the last 12 months, there is still a much greater volume of products coming out of HasTak.

The Protector is an exception to this rule but in it's case, I'm just going to wait for Hastak to come up with a new version of Springer, given all the other characters they have produced in the last 12 months, it's surely on their list of things to do.

As mentioned above, there is a great argument for more third party companies. if there is more competition, there is more innovation and potentially better quality and value. The third party gun character figures are certainly not on my list of maybe's. They have turned normal characters into targetmasters, which I probably wouldn't be interested in if HasTak did it.

The irony of making a megatron toy that turns into a generic gun is kind of amusing though.

This will hopefully promote even more innovation from HasTak too, which I think is part of the reason we have so many reimaginations of G1 figures coming through at the moment. There is even a chance that HasTak are intentionally leaving details out, like a gun here or there to allow something for the third party mobs to produce, hence promoting sales of HasTak product...

don't forget HasTak was the original "hey lets produce toys for profit" group of this entire community.

In summary of my ridiculously long spiel (sorry) I think Third party products are here to stay and for those who don't dislike them on principle, they will continue to enhance an already excellent product. but they will alway s be secondary to the official HasTak product simply because their entire premise is to be riding on the coat tails of a first party product.

[GoktimusPrime]

As mentioned above, there is a great argument for more third party companies. if there is more competition, there is more innovation and potentially better quality and value. The third party gun character figures are certainly not on my list of maybe's. They have turned normal characters into targetmasters, which I probably wouldn't be interested in if HasTak did it.

It's not really a fair competition though since we're looking at infringement of Hasbro's intellectual property. Hasbro doesn't compete by taking their competitor's IP. For example, Transformers was released by Hasbro as a way for them to compete with then-rival company Tonka's Machine Men/Go-Bots. They copied Tonka's idea in terms of finding Japanese transforming robot toys and bringing them into their own market, but whereas Tonka adapted Bandai's Machine Robo, Hasbro adapted Takara's Diaclone and Microman. Hasbro then commissioned Marvel/Sunbow to make a comic and cartoon series, and Tonka returned in kinda with their own series, such as a cartoon from Hanna Barbera. But as similar as these franchises may have been, they were certainly distinct from each other.

Now having said all that, as you said, the 3rd party items are (with some exceptions) mostly augmentations for Hasbro's toys - designed to compliment and accessorise them rather than compete with them (e.g. City Commander etc.)... so in that way a lot of their products are mutually beneficial with Hasbro's.

This will hopefully promote even more innovation from HasTak too, which I think is part of the reason we have so many reimaginations of G1 figures coming through at the moment.

The reimaginings of G1 characters occurred before the advent of 3rd party items. In fact, a lot of 3rd party items came out because fans saw a way to capitalise on the toys that Hasbro was pumping out. For example, toys like Classics Ultra Magnus and Cliffjumper came out in 2006, and later on 3rd party producers saw the opportunity to create City Commander and the Cliffjumper Upgrade Kit to compliment these toys.

There is even a chance that HasTak are intentionally leaving details out, like a gun here or there to allow something for the third party mobs to produce, hence promoting sales of HasTak product...

That's highly unlikely for many legal reasons. And remember that Hasbro/Takara Legal are really tight (which is why, thanks to legal reasons, we have ridiculously stupid names like "Solar Storm Grappel" <shudder>). Hasbro's budget is really tight for each toy where every single accessory and even drop of paint is budgeted for. Hasbro and Takara aren't even allowed to cross contaminate each other's markets (they have a contract that restricts them from doing so)... let alone attempting to cross over with unlicensed manufacturers.

Hasbro are graciously pretending that they don't know that 3rd party producers exist, much like how anime distributors kindly pretend that fansubbers don't exist. They recognise that these fan-groups who engage in legally dubious practises probably do more good for their products than harm, so allow them to continue -- up to a point of course. For example, fansubbers and anime distributors have an unspoken rule that once a Western distributor acquires the rights to an anime, then all production and distribution of that anime is halted.

don't forget HasTak was the original "hey lets produce toys for profit" group of this entire community.

Of course, but they're doing it legitimately. I don't think anyone would argue against legitimate competition. Transformers has a LOT of legitimate competition in Japan (e.g. Gundam, Macross and various other kinds of giant robot/mecha franchises).

In summary of my ridiculously long spiel (sorry) I think Third party products are here to stay and for those who don't dislike them on principle, they will continue to enhance an already excellent product. but they will alway s be secondary to the official HasTak product simply because their entire premise is to be riding on the coat tails of a first party product.

I don't purchase unlicensed toys as a matter of principle, but I personally don't find third party items objectionable as I do with knockoffs.

3rd and 1st party items often compliment each other in a mutually beneficial kind of way... whereas knockoffs are just counterfeits. Also, 3rd party items don't attempt to deceive consumers into thinking that they are genuine Transformers since they aren't imitations of official products, whereas KOs do. I've never come across anyone who's purchased a 3rd party item thinking it was legit, but I've come across several people who've purchased knockoffs thinking they were legit, only later to find out that they weren't.

[UltraMarginal]

It's not really a fair competition though since we're looking at infringement of Hasbro's intellectual property. Hasbro doesn't compete by taking their competitor's IP. For example, Transformers was released by Hasbro as a way for them to compete with then-rival company Tonka's Machine Men/Go-Bots. They copied Tonka's idea in terms of finding Japanese transforming robot toys and bringing them into their own market, but whereas Tonka adapted Bandai's Machine Robo, Hasbro adapted Takara's Diaclone and Microman. Hasbro then commissioned Marvel/Sunbow to make a comic and cartoon series, and Tonka returned in kinda with their own series, such as a cartoon from Hanna Barbera. But as similar as these franchises may have been, they were certainly distinct from each other.

Now having said all that, as you said, the 3rd party items are (with some exceptions) mostly augmentations for Hasbro's toys - designed to compliment and accessorise them rather than compete with them (e.g. City Commander etc.)... so in that way a lot of their products are mutually beneficial with Hasbro's.


The reimaginings of G1 characters occurred before the advent of 3rd party items. In fact, a lot of 3rd party items came out because fans saw a way to capitalise on the toys that Hasbro was pumping out. For example, toys like Classics Ultra Magnus and Cliffjumper came out in 2006, and later on 3rd party producers saw the opportunity to create City Commander and the Cliffjumper Upgrade Kit to compliment these toys.


That's highly unlikely for many legal reasons. And remember that Hasbro/Takara Legal are really tight (which is why, thanks to legal reasons, we have ridiculously stupid names like "Solar Storm Grappel" <shudder>). Hasbro's budget is really tight for each toy where every single accessory and even drop of paint is budgeted for. Hasbro and Takara aren't even allowed to cross contaminate each other's markets (they have a contract that restricts them from doing so)... let alone attempting to cross over with unlicensed manufacturers.

Hasbro are graciously pretending that they don't know that 3rd party producers exist, much like how anime distributors kindly pretend that fansubbers don't exist. They recognise that these fan-groups who engage in legally dubious practises probably do more good for their products than harm, so allow them to continue -- up to a point of course. For example, fansubbers and anime distributors have an unspoken rule that once a Western distributor acquires the rights to an anime, then all production and distribution of that anime is halted.


Of course, but they're doing it legitimately. I don't think anyone would argue against legitimate competition. Transformers has a LOT of legitimate competition in Japan (e.g. Gundam, Macross and various other kinds of giant robot/mecha franchises).


I don't purchase unlicensed toys as a matter of principle, but I personally don't find third party items objectionable as I do with knockoffs.

3rd and 1st party items often compliment each other in a mutually beneficial kind of way... whereas knockoffs are just counterfeits. Also, 3rd party items don't attempt to deceive consumers into thinking that they are genuine Transformers since they aren't imitations of official products, whereas KOs do. I've never come across anyone who's purchased a 3rd party item thinking it was legit, but I've come across several people who've purchased knockoffs thinking they were legit, only later to find out that they weren't.

Good thoughts, I'm going to have to follow this up when I'm sober...