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Thread: Martial arts discussion thread

  1. #911
    Join Date
    9th Apr 2008


    But 100% leg protected!

  2. #912
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    It was actually $119 (oops). I found another pair at a different shop for $20 so I bought that and returned the first pair, but that shop doesn't do refunds so they've given me store credit.

    Uh... does anyone in Sydney need sporting supplies?

    P.S.: I bought the cheapest possible pair of leg guards because in all honesty, Tai Chi fighting is so close quarter than kicks are practically useless. When I sparred with Karate guys on Monday and again practised in another Karate Dojo on Friday I always came up so close to my opponents that they were rarely able to throw a kick. And if they did it was all too easy for me to just catch the kicking leg, in which case I'd give the leg enough of a yank to teeter them nearly off balance, but actually off balance so that they'd fall over (since there were no mats). And seriously, it only happened twice... most of the time the fighting was too close up for kicks.

  3. #913
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    Last night's Karate sparring:

    Was sparring with a white belt - same size and age as me. He initially freaked out and got really angry when I made contact with him; i.e. tapping his body and head gear, grabbing his kicking leg, shoving him out of the way - but in no way actually harming him. Anyway, I could see he wasn't happy so I dialled myself down and put one hand behind my back and started fighting him with just one hand to make it easier for him. He exploited this and delivered a hard kick to my jaw on my exposed side. Wow.

    I spoke with him later and he told me that he wasn't comfortable with my aggression and was afraid that I was going to hurt him. I pointed out to him that, yes, I was being aggressive because this is sparring in a martial art and you need an aggressive partner in order to train yourself for effectual self defence. I assured him that while I do fight aggressively I would never hurt him, because then nobody would ever want to train with me in the future (which would obviously suck for me). I also pointed out that while the most "damage" I did to him was just tapping him, his kick actually drew blood -- my mouth was bleeding on the inside and after my round with him I went and rinsed my mouth with water and spat blood out outside the Dojo. My jaw is still sore now, so yeah... I have more to fear from him than he has from me!

    And I did finally get to spar with the black belts which was waaay better. They fought much more aggressively but never hurt me. But as we all know, novices are more dangerous than experienced fighters because they just don't know how to control themselves. Serves me right for having my guard down. I wanted to be kind to the newbies but if it's going to end up getting me hurt then why bother? I guess they can just learn to cope with an overwhelming opponent (which is more like a real fight - if anything a real fight would be much worse).

  4. #914
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    More martial arts related entertainment than any to do with actual martial arts, but I guess this thread might be the nearest fit...

    Shannon Lee will be realising her father's dream of a Wild West Kung Fu epic

    Bruce Lee's family have always asserted that Warner Bros stole Bruce's idea for a Wild West Kung Fu epic and turned it into the 1972-75 Kung Fu TV series. And according to Lee's family, due to racist attitudes in the 70s they chose to recast what would've been Lee's role as the main character to a Caucasian actor, who was of course David Carradine, playing the role of a Eurasian character.

    There's also the fact that David Carradine has zero interest or knowledge of martial arts, and I know this first hand because I asked Carradine this directly when I met him at Sydney SupaNova many years ago (2004?). Carradine told me that he has no interest in any of this stuff and only learnt moves taught to him by a choreographer for the purposes of the show. So you had a non-Asian non-martial artist playing the role of a half-Asian martial artist. Okay.

    This time they've cast Andrew Koji as the lead character; he's Eurasian (half Japanese half British) IRL so I guess he'll either be playing a full East Asian character (as Lee had intended) or a half-Asian character (as Carradine was supposed to be but wasn't), I don't know. Although I don't have pay TV so it might be a jolly long time before I ever get around to watching this anyway.

  5. #915
    Join Date
    2nd Jun 2011


    Disappointed. Just enrolled my daughter in Ballet classes once a week, and was hoping to start my son and I in a weekly Karate class. Apparently there were about 8 in the class, a mixture of all ages and sexes.

    But now I've found out they may not be running anymore. Apparently the old instructor who made the drive once a week from Mudgee finished up and two young blokes took over. Apparently they are pretty bad at running the classes and as such what people were showing up have stopped. And without the requisite numbers the classes will stop completely.

    Hoping they are able to sort something out. Seemed like a really good activity my son and I could do together. And I haven't done martial arts since I was a teenager and did Judo for 3 years.

  6. #916
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    In all honesty your boy's better off not doing a martial art at all over doing a badly taught martial art. I've seen too many bad martial arts schools teach skills that are counter intuitive to even basic natural fighting instincts, so you'd be better off being untrained and let your natural instincts kick in.

    A good martial arts teacher should be supplementing learners' natural fight instincts and reactions, not opposing them. At least at the basic level -- there are more advanced techniques which can be more counter-intuitive to natural fight instincts, but that's why they're advanced. I must admit that this is something that my current Baji instructor doesn't understand well. Because in Baji we cannot retreat, we can only advance. The scarier a fight gets the closer you move in, and it does work because the closer you get the more you starve your opponent of options. But it doesn't work for inexperienced learners because your natural instincts are screaming at you to get AWAY from the scary threat! It's for this reason that I think Baji is better as a secondary martial art rather than a primary one. I feel the opposite is true for Karate.

  7. #917
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    So a while ago I was doing some sword sparring at the Karate Dojo, basically using foam-covered "swords." Now I'll be the first to admit that I completely suck at weapons. My interest and focus is on hand-to-hand techniques, but hey, why not have a go at this? I was still able to smash my way through most of the coloured belts, but the higher ranking belts were better able to best me, especially the black belts. The most proficient black belt had me against the ropes so to speak.

    But the weird thing was that another black belt managed to magnificently disarm me -- sent my sword flying behind me. Awesome. So I put my dukes up ready to continue fighting as an unarmed fighter against an armed opponent, but my partner lowered his sword and told me to go pick my sword up. I initially refused and told him to just keep attacking me, but he said, "No, that's not right. You have to get your sword."

    Huh? What do you mean that's not right? Okay, it's near impossible that I'd ever get into a real fight against an armed opponent while I'm armed myself, but if I did, being as crap as I am with weapons, I would likely be disarmed and my attacker isn't going to give me the luxury of picking up my weapon. And realistically, if there is to be a weapon in a fight it will more likely be my attacker who is holding the weapon while I an unarmed. I get that weapon vs weapon arts are done for fun and recreation rather than practical self defence, but surely if a person is disarmed then the opportunity to practise self defence is there... why not take it? She stopped the fight while I had my guard up with this in mind...

    Also, even from the recreationalist/re-enactment side, historically speaking if two swordsmen fought and one was disarmed, the armed opponent would more than likely continue attacking and attempt to quickly take out the disarmed opponent. Now you could argue that this would be against Bushido and a Samurai's honour blah blah blah, but...
    a/ This is Karate which is an art not used by the Samurai. You just do what you can to survive.
    b/ Bushido and a Samurai's honour was often adhered to more strictly in theory than in practice. Samurai history is littered with betrayals and back stabbings, even among family!


    RE: What is a McDojo? (Art of One Dojo)
    Here's the McDojo checklist according to the video, and as the video said, if your school is exhibiting one or a few of these traits then it doesn't necessarily mean that it's a McDojo, but if it's exhibiting a lot of them then you might want to consider changing schools.

    I'll go through this list and see how my Tai Chi/Baji class fares...

    Long term contracts / Upfront payments
    We pay upfront for 20 lessons. This is because it is a very small class. There is no time limit though - we receive a punch card and we can attend as frequently or infrequently as we like and we punch off at each lesson. Then we repay when the card is used up.

    Instructor lineage
    My instructor himself is from Cangzhou Prefecture in Hebei Province, and Hebei is where Baji originates from. Tracing the lineage of Chinese martial arts can be often problematic because of the destruction of knowledge during China's Cultural Revolution (sigh), but there is sufficient surviving documentation that tells us that Cangzhou Hebei was a major hub for Baji (where it was sometimes known as Bazi or Pazi... potayto potahto).

    Watch Classes and Observe Class Size and Structure
    Yep, the classes are easily visible. Especially considering that we train in a public park! Anyone can come and watch. We often get footballers, joggers etc. training around us. Class size? There are currently just four students in the class. If large class sizes are a bad sign of a McDojo then we are the opposite. Of course there are lots of down sides to having tiny classes too, and the structure of the class is often related to this. Only me and one other student are serious about learning this art for self defence/fighting -- the other two are what I call "Tai Chi hippies." They learn it more as a performance art which drives me and the other more serious guy mental as they're holding us back... but they're also half the class! Also if either me or the other serious dude can't make it to class then that significantly affects the class dynamic. The other guy told me recently that if I message through saying that I can't make it to a class then he won't even bother turning up, as - in his words - "What's the f***ing point?"

    Are Students Being Corrected and Monitored?
    Yes. Definitely one of the beauties of being in a really small class - definitely more individual teacher attention.

    Required Merchandise
    Only sparring gear. There is a uniform but it's not enforced (I never wear it). The uniform is only required if we are publicly performing at an event... which I never do, so again, I never wear it. And the sparring gear is stuff I already owned from my previous Tai Chi training so it wasn't anything that I had to explicitly purchase for Baji. And protective gear isn't merchandise -- these aren't tee shirts, car stickers or badges. This is stuff that helps to prevent injuries! Oh, the only thing I've recently needed to purchase was a new mouth guard because my old one was getting festy.

    Instructor Engagement
    Our instructor doesn't spar with us but he does engage. We cop a few accidental hits during demonstrations. In fact, the first time I met my Baji instructor I was skeptical. One thing that Baji does which looked initially bad to me was leaning forwards. My initial thought was that it makes you off centre and it would be too easy for a grappler to just rope you in. The instructor asked me to show him what I meant, so I asked him to hold out a punch in that forward leaning stance, so he obliged. I then grabbed is arm and started pulling it in, but then he lunged right into me and sent me flying backwards! He told me that there was no way that I could reel him in. I tried it again, and yep, kept on failing! Since then I've learnt that Baji works by constantly advancing into the opponent, thus starving him of options to retaliate, including grappling. You cannot grapple a person who is driving their body through your own core (effectively launching their own body at you like a missile). But yeah, my instructor's certainly not afraid to get his hands dirty.

    No One Fails a Belt Test
    We have no belts. No tests. So yeah, not even relevant. In schools with no belts or grades it's pretty simple; the person who can put you on your butt is your senior. Nobody cares how long you've been training or whatever... competence is all that matters. Want to know someone's level? Fight them.

    Does the Instructor Discourage Cross Training?
    Nope. He doesn't actively encourage it either, but if we ever mix in or compare techniques from other arts he's perfectly fine with it. But whatever technique you throw at him he will counter with a Baji technique. It doesn't matter what art that attack is from; Tai Chi, Kung Fu, Karate etc. - an attack is an attack. In a real fight you have no time to analyse what style your attacker is using, there is only a series of threats that you must immediately deal with. It's a quick succession of threat analyses and responses... who's got time to care about style?

    Forbids Cross Training
    Absolutely not.

    Are Students Promoting Too Quickly?
    There is no promotion system. I suppose there are students who are being taught new forms too quickly. When I was doing Chen Tai Chi students would only be taught a new form after mastering the previous one, and by mastery I mean also mastering all the applications of each movement in the form, not just memorising the form and being able to perform it. As a result we learnt forms very slowly. But as I mentioned before, half the class are learning this as a performance art -- since the other two guys don't even spar they do little else but perfect their performance of their forms, eliciting the instructor to teach them the next one. In my instructor's defence, he is trying to encourage these two to become more hands on with the practical elements. When these "hippies" started they refused to do any physical contact work. Now after lots of encouragement he's got them doing padwork... which is still freaking them out because they're still so scared of incoming hits (they frequently flinch and cower). He's working on these guys to build their confidence, but I think he has to undo a lot of the bad habits that these guys have picked up as mindless form collectors. I personally try to encourage them to try sparring, but they just laugh the idea off. They used to laugh off the idea of padwork too but the instructor has managed to get them involved now, so many one day they might be willing to spar? The other serious guy has given up on asking them to spar (and being constantly refused) which is why he won't even rock up unless I'm there now. In his eyes the "hippies" are just wasting his time. He doesn't even like doing padwork with them, but I try to encourage us to mix with them because I think that they need to feel what it's like to practise against live and more aggressive partners. Whereas then they train with each other it's all touchy feel good and gentle.

    Does the School Have Child Black Belts?
    We have no anything belts. Our instructor used to teach kids but I don't know if he does anymore (i.e. at the other classes that I don't attend). But the children's classes that I've seen before have been nothing more than mindless form teaching for performances. It's one of the reasons why I've got my daughter doing Karate instead -- Karate is simpler but also much easier for kids. Also, if I'm to be really honest, Baji isn't a good martial art if you've never done a martial art before. Because the idea of "No Retreat No Surrender," the core principle of Baji, is a pretty advanced concept. Beginners will naturally want to flinch and back away from the threat. It's your natural instinct to move away from danger. Baji requires you to move into danger where, oddly enough, it is safer for you because the attacker has far fewer options. But moving in that close isn't easy! The other serious guy and I can do it because we have prior martial arts experience, but even then it's not exactly a walk in the park (otherwise we wouldn't need to train)!

    Instructor Behaviour - Do They Treat Students Appropriately
    Absolutely. My Baji teacher isn't a bully like the Gojuryu Karate teacher that I briefly trained with. One thing that impresses me is that he takes criticism quite well, and he seeks out feedback. I remember after the first semester of training with him, at the end of the last lesson he approached me and asked me for my honest opinion about his teaching. I told him that I felt that we did too much form work and not enough practical applications. When the next semester started, he had invested in a set of pads and every lesson now includes a combination of form work and application work. Not always sparring though, which is why I joined my daughter's Karate Dojo and I only attend Karate lessons where there's sparring. I've told the Sensei that I'm not interested in learning Karate, I just want to spar (and he was fine with that; so long as I pay for insurance and lesson fees). And I have mentioned to my Baji teacher that I'm now sparring with Karateka -- so I learn the techniques with him, but practise it at Karate. And it's not entirely his fault that we don't spar often enough, as I said, half the class are sparring refusers and if either me or the other serious guy doesn't show up then sparring is impossible. I didn't train this week because I've been sick. My Baji instructor has said that it is difficult for him to plan when we can spar -- so we do try to message in as early as possible to let him know if we can't make it to a lesson. It's one of the downsides of having a small class where half the people don't want to spar.

    Does the School Overbrand
    I don't think it does. The closest it gets is doing public demonstrations, but certainly not door to door salespeople like GKR Karate.

    Is the Martial Art Style Clear?
    Absolutely. This goes back to the lineage. And as the video said, if your school is a combination of different arts that's fine, but the lineage of those different styles should be clear. And yeah, our classes are very much watchable - again, being done in a park.

    No Touch Knockouts
    I think you can all tell by the way I've made fun of these people that I would never train in a school that does no touch techniques. There's definitely contact in our training. I didn't just buy a new mouth guard for fun.

    Does Your Instructor Answer Your Questions
    Definitely. And he asks questions too - again, I like the way that he is receptive to feedback and seeks out feedback. He wants to know how he can be a better teacher.

    So how does your school fare on this checklist?

  8. #918
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    Often Misunderstood Concept: 間合い (Ma'ai)

    Chinese and Japanese (and I suspect other East Asian?) martial arts traditionally visualised their 間合い as "circles" (actually domes) whereas Western martial arts view them as "boxes" (actually rectangular prisms).

    The left and right fighter's territories are coloured in red and blue respectively. The yellow line represents their centre line. Here the red fighter has invaded the blue fighter's Ma'ai - he has occupied the geometric centre.

    Commonly understood as merely "distance" in a fight, but that's arguably too simplistic. Ma'ai really looks at each individual's "territories" and how one moves in order to move through, capture and/or defend territory. Chapter 9 of 孫子兵法 (The Art of War) deals with the principle of Ma'ai in what it calls 「行軍篇」(the deployment and movement of troops)

    Here we see two fighters launching kicks from their respective Ma'ai. While they are both attacking each other, neither is moving in to either occupy or control the other's Ma'ai. This is a situation of relative stalemate as both parties are equally able to strike at each other; neither party is asserting tactical dominance over the other (this is more of a technical fight than a tactical one).

    In my recent sparring with Karateka I've found that I'm often able to gain the upper hand against my partners by simply invading their Ma'ai. I found a lot of the Karateka specialised in ranged attacks - basically launching strikes from their Ma'ai into their enemy's but rarely ever crossing into enemy territory. But once I invaded my opponent's Ma'ai then it often became difficult if not impossible for my them to attack me.

    The blue Jujutsu fighter has ducked under a punch and moved in to invade the white fighter's Ma'ai right before executing a take-down. This invasive maneouvre is what allows a Jujutsuka to get their opponent off balance. This is not a stalemate, here the Jujutsuka is forcing a Checkmate.

    Ma'ai can be divided into 2 planes -- the "horizontal" boundary between two fighters and the "vertical" centre line. These two planes intersect and form four boxes and as such we see how the basic concept of boxing works.

    The Tai Chi fighter on the right has stepped into the Karate fighter's 間合い, represented by the red line that he has crossed over. He is finishing in a solid stance while driving his elbow straight into the Karate fighter's ribs, sending him backwards off balance. Again this tactic is intended to avoid a stalemate and increase the chances of forcing a Checkmate.

    Now this is less of a technical thing that a tactical thing. Because by invading your opponent's Ma'ai you are literally starving them of available options that they can use against you. Punches and kicks suddenly become useless at extreme close range and, if I can get close enough, my opponent may have difficult standing upright if I am able to plow through their centre of mass and upend their balance (although I usually didn't go this far as the Karate dojos that I'm training at don't have mats for people to safely fall onto). I'm finding that many people have trained well in learning technical fighting but not so much in tactical fighting. In this sense martial arts suddenly adopts strategic elements and sort of becomes like a game of Chess.

  9. #919
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    Hit a brick wall with my recent journey into Karate.

    For context:
    * As explained back in February, I joined this Karate club for the purposes of cross training. I made this abundantly clear to the head instructor when I asked to sign up and he was cool with it.
    * During sparring the only restrictions imposed are for safety (fair enough)
    * There are two dojo; one that's closer to me (Dojo A) and one that's farther away (Dojo B)

    I've recently been told by black belts at Dojo A to cease and desist using any Tai Chi during sparring because it's against their "rules" (???). No pushing/shoving, no grabbing, no elbows etc. Ya know, all the good stuff. And in the black belts' defence, they told me that they've received complaints because I've been putting my opponents onto the floor. Not takedowns, but sometimes people fall over during fights (happens to me enough times). I'm not justifying this justification, but I can understand why they - upon receiving complaints - have asked me to adjust my fighting style. It's not a great reason; they could just explain to those complainers that this is a MARTIAL ART, but they're erring on the side of caution so while I don't agree with their actions I can see where they're coming from. But interestingly enough Sensei himself has never said this to me, only two of his most senior black belts at Dojo A. Although Sensei has recently introduced the rule of taking it easy on smaller opponents and giving them a chance to do stuff, which is fair enough from a teaching/learning POV (re: zone of proximal development, you don't learn anything from being constantly overwhelmed). But the black belts aren't on this same page, they don't want me stepping my game up even with them.

    The way that people at this Dojo fight is like a video game. They step in and take pot shots but... that's kinda it. It's all ranged attacks and nobody really gets close (and thus they hate it when a close range fighter at me gets in past their comfort zone). Not sure why they'd expect a fight to be comfortable... in my Tai Chi training we expect it to be frightening (as in crap your pants scary; someone is trying to harm you or worse!). But at the end of the day, I'm just a newbie at their school - I'm a white belt. And even as someone who has openly confessed to coming to this dojo to cross-train, I'm basically a guest.

    So what I've been doing now is just fighting purely defensively. I just sit back there and block or evade all incoming attacks and... it is boring. Too easy and unchallenging as I find many of these Karate attacks rely on the opponent to make a ranged attack. If I don't make any attacks then they can't really do anything. I actually copped more hits making close range attacks through things like personal errors or opponents outmanoeuvring me and getting a good punch or kick in before I can close that gap. That's what I enjoyed about sparring -- honing my close quarter skills against range fighters. My strategy was to get in close and the better Karate fighters would use their range skills to try and keep me from closing in. But sadly the people at Dojo A have no interest in fighting like this, so now all I do is just sit there and casually block all incoming attacks. Low risk. Low challenge. No learning.

    In teaching/learning terms this is pitching far below learners' zone of proximal development and it isn't really teaching people how to apply their skills since the conditions are far too controlled and predictable. And application is only middle order thinking (low order thinking = memorisation, high order thinking = creativity). It's just really bad teaching and learning.

    Dojo B is better though as the black and brown belts there actually relish the opportunity to pressure test their Karate against my Tai Chi -- to adapt their tactics. When I execute a successful technique, rather than banning me from doing it anymore, the Dojo B people actually ask me to do it again because they want to learn how to counter it! Thus it becomes far more of a scientific process. Repeat the attack (control) and attempt to modify their Karate to counter it (variable). Hypothesising and testing. And similarly I have to ensure that my Tai Chi tactics can work against their Karate attacks. This is the beauty of cross training; so that fighters of different styles can pressure test our techniques against each other and learn to become adaptable and versatile fighters. There's no judgement or any of that tribal rubbish about whose style is better than whose -- I don't tell them to use Tai Chi and they're not telling me to use Karate during sparring, we just use what works, and if it doesn't work then analyse and correct. What went wrong? How can we improve? Thus as learners we can grow. Dojo B is a far better learning environment but sadly because it's farther away from where I live I don't get to train there often.

    The other hilarious thing is that the black belts from Dojo A told me that the "distanced pot shotting" is "pure Karate." I pointed out that traditional Karate is close range; many of their form (kata) techniques is designed for close quarter combat. And recently I asked one of the black belts - out of sheer curiosity - what the lineage of the style was. No idea. Wow, really? You've trained for decades and gotten a black belt and you insist that your form is "pure" Karate but you don't even know the lineage of your style? I asked Sensei who explained that it's a combination of Okinawan Genseiryu Karate and Taido. I've only been training at this Karate school for less than 5 months and I already know the lineage of the style just by quickly asking Sensei. Okay, I get that not everyone cares about the history of their style - but if you're going to prattle on about "stylistic purity," then come on! But I think in reality "pure" Karate just means "my" Karate and anything different from their own insular perspective is "impure." It's chest beating tribalism.

    And sadly discussions about styles easily devolve into tribalism. As my Chen Tai Chi teacher once said, the important question is not "What style/art do you do?" -- the important question is, "Can you fight?" I've come to realise that it doesn't matter if you're doing a traditional or non-traditional style... I don't care if it's short or long range... striking or grappling. If it works for you then keep doing it. And that's why I enjoy good cross training because it helps me to pressure test my Tai Chi and know if it works for me against fighters of different arts. Because in real life it's highly unlikely that I'll be attacked by someone who does the exact same art and style as me. During my Tai Chi (Baji) training last night we talked about how important the first sticking movement is, especially against boxers who are trained to throw combination punches in rapid succession. And I reckon I'd be more likely to come up against a boxer on the streets than a Tai Chi or even Karate fighter.

  10. #920
    Join Date
    27th Dec 2007
    Sydney NSW


    I've made a FB group called "Functional Martial Arts." We don't care what style you're training in. It doesn't matter if it's traditional or not. The only thing that matters is what works.

    If it works = good
    If it doesn't work = not good

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  • showthread_start
  • showthread_getinfo
  • strip_bbcode
  • friendlyurl_clean_fragment
  • friendlyurl_geturl
  • forumjump
  • cache_templates
  • cache_templates_process
  • template_register_var
  • template_render_output
  • fetch_template_start
  • fetch_template_complete
  • parse_templates
  • fetch_musername
  • notices_check_start
  • notices_noticebit
  • process_templates_complete
  • friendlyurl_redirect_canonical
  • showthread_post_start
  • showthread_query_postids
  • showthread_query
  • bbcode_fetch_tags
  • bbcode_create
  • showthread_postbit_create
  • postbit_factory
  • postbit_display_start
  • postbit_imicons
  • bbcode_parse_start
  • bbcode_parse_complete_precache
  • bbcode_parse_complete
  • postbit_display_complete
  • memberaction_dropdown
  • bbcode_img_match
  • pagenav_page
  • pagenav_complete
  • tag_fetchbit_complete
  • forumrules
  • navbits
  • navbits_complete
  • build_navigation_data
  • build_navigation_array
  • check_navigation_permission
  • process_navigation_links_start
  • process_navigation_links_complete
  • set_navigation_menu_element
  • build_navigation_menudata
  • build_navigation_listdata
  • build_navigation_list
  • set_navigation_tab_main
  • set_navigation_tab_fallback
  • navigation_tab_complete
  • fb_like_button
  • showthread_complete
  • page_templates