Martial arts discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

Wearing a Jiu Jitsu gi is great for weight loss

<sympathetic nod>

For anyone reading this who may not know, the Judogi is quite different from the Karategi in that it's a lot thicker. This is because the Judogi is designed to be more resilient so that it doesn't tear so easily from practitioners being constantly thrown and grappled etc. The downside is that it is a substantially heavier gi that gets even heavier as it accumulates all your lovely sweat!

[Bartrim]

My old gi weighed 18 pounds.

I can't remember what my karate gi weighed but it was a lot lighter.

[GoktimusPrime]

Just came back from a family road trip where we stayed at an estate with about 9 other families (friends of a friend; made the whole thing cheaper blah blah blah). Last night I saw one of the other dads there practising what looked like Tai Chi. I asked him, and he confirmed that it was and that he practises Yang Style Tai Chi. I asked him if he wouldn't mind doing some Push Hands with me.

I got my butt handed back to me!

I was really excited to finally be able to spar with a superior opponent. Someone who didn't rely on brute force, but purely on technique and strategy. The way that he described his technique was a really good one, "Strike hard by being soft." I offered the analogy of being a flicked wet towel, it's soft and supple but really hurts on impact. When I did Karate, one of the black belts also offered a good analogy of being like a whip.

This is one thing that I miss about my Tai Chi training and that I felt was lacking when I've done other martial arts like Aikido, Karate etc.; allowing people to train with significantly superior partners. As someone who's never passed beyond white belt, I can count the number of times that I've trained with black belts on one hand. And when I have, I've found it to be a real mixed bag -- some black belts were absolute push overs to beat while others were more formidable. Whereas when I did Tai Chi, every senior student that I trained with completely outclassed me.

But IMO this highlights the importance of allowing students of different ability levels to train with each other. Because when you only ever train with people of the same or similar level as yourself, it's really hard to get any better. Imagine two people trying to learn a language, neither of which are fluent speakers, trying to practice conversation with each other. It's just not going to be as good as practising against say a native speaker. Yes, the native speaker will outclass you in every way, but once you learn how to be conversant with native speakers, your fluency in the target language improves exponentially. There's a reason why P Platers cannot instruct/supervise Learner drivers.

I've found a similar thing in my martial arts experience. When I was able to train with fighters who were much more competent than myself, they pushed me to fight harder and learn faster and better. When I've trained at schools where I was relegated to training with fellow novices, my skill set just stagnated/plateaued. IMO students (of anything, not just martial arts) benefit more when they're able to practise with others who are better than themselves, and this is one advantage of training in a traditional school that doesn't bother with ranks or belts etc.; because there is no definite rank, everyone just mixes up with each other throughout the course of training. You are bound to eventually train with someone who could kick your butt with their eyes closed (which this person practically did do to me last night, because he predicted my moves and sent me flying backwards before I could even lay a hand on him). And the way that he fought me was exceptional -- he would have me beaten in just 1 or 2 moves. It was like being a prey animal and watching a tiger pounce on me. Whenever he made a strike, I didn't stand a chance. That is how martial arts is meant to be!

And this guy isn't any kind of hardcore martial arts fanatic. He's a family man w/ two kids who just learns Tai Chi on the side as a casual hobby, but this is simply the quality of teaching/learning that I've typically experienced at a traditional school. The way he described his school sounds similar to the one I used to train at. No nonsense training. No uniform, no belts, no gradings, no competitions... just training for the sake of learning and improving one's techniques. We also discussed how these sort of traditional schools are often a lot cheaper than non-traditional schools, and I lamented about how much money I've wasted on subsequent schools which didn't really teach me anything useful. (-_-)

It's funny... I feel so glad to have been beaten. And he was really gracious about it too. Each time he'd beat me, we'd review the technique and he'd critique me on what I was doing wrong. Unfortunately we just didn't have the time to go much further than that, and his school is too far away from where I live (but he's invited me to pop over if I'm ever in his neck of the woods ).

[GoktimusPrime]

Japanese Karate parody video.
Alternative link (low res)

I like how they've named their Karate style 仁義無流 (jingumuryuu), which roughly translates as "Inhumanity Style."

[GoktimusPrime]

I found this video which simply and clearly demonstrates how "McDojos" work, and it's precisely how all the non-traditional martial arts schools that I have ever been to work.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvAiSaBGaj8
As I have long espoused, none of the things that many of these schools present (e.g. certifications, uniforms, belts/ranks, titles etc.) are remotely traditional (i.e. historically authentic). They are all modern inventions primarily created or popularised when/as martial arts became increasingly commercialised during the 20th Century. I have found such schools to ultimately be a waste of time and money that often hardly teach anything that's intuitive to self defence, and in many cases, teach techniques which are counter intuitive to self defence and are more likely to put you in greater danger in a real fight. Have a look at this video, it's only about 10 min long, and consider the school that you are training at or have trained at or are thinking about training at. Look out for the signs that it may be a "McDojo" rather than an authentic martial arts school.

There's also this wiki page about McDojos and you can scroll down to "Warning Signs." People who train in martial arts are investing a LOT of time and money. You'd like to think that you're investing in something that's legitimate. IMO, comparing non-traditional schools w/ traditional schools is like comparing Movieverse toys with Masterpiece Transformers, but only with the prices reversed! (so imagine paying MP Bumblebee's price for an AoE Deluxe Class Bumblebee and vice versa!) When I trained at a traditional school, everything I learnt was of superior quality at a much cheaper price. No uniform, no belts, no grading fees -- just annual membership fee to cover insurance and lesson fees. That was it. When I've tried non-traditional stuff, I've paid loads more for something that I ultimately found wasn't all that great.

[Bartrim]

Maybe I'm tired and not reading it right but your post comes across quite arrogant Gok. I get the impression you see any school that doesn't teach traditional martial arts is a McDojo.

I train at a school that is primarily teaching a sports based martial arts. They have belt grading systems, uniforms etc but I don't consider it a McDojo. They have produced many champions. Just because they are not a traditional based martial art it does not make them a McDojo.

[GoktimusPrime]

Allow me to clarify...
* Are all schools that have non-traditional elements in it "McDojos"? No.
* Do all McDojos have non-traditional elements? Yes.

These superficial elements really have no bearing whatsoever on the quality of a school, but a lot of people still believe that they do, and thus use it to quickly judge that school. But more importantly, and this is the point made in the video and text links, there are dangers in training in commercialised franchise schools, as it arms students with a sense of false confidence that they can defend themselves.

Check out this article written by a man who reached 3rd Dan black belt in a martial arts school which he now calls a "McDojo." A friend of his who trained at the same school and a fellow black belt, was brutally bashed a result of his poor training that was more concerned with making lots of money rather than actually teaching students how to defend themselves.

One of the things that he says towards the end strikes me as being quite poignant:

You know, that first black belt just isn't as attractive anymore. I just want to be able to defend myself.

There's nothing wrong with having belts or uniforms per se, but they are just superficial elements of a martial art. They're like covers on a book -- nothing wrong with having a nice, beautiful cover, but ultimately it's the content that matters.

P.S.: As a counterpoint, just because a school doesn't present itself with non-traditional elements and just because it isn't a McDojo doesn't necessarily mean that it's good either. I've trained at a school that didn't enforce a uniform, had no belts and didn't enter competitions and was teaching a completely legitimate and historically authentic martial art... but it was still terrible because the teacher just sucked. He knew his stuff, but was just hopeless at teaching it. Just because someone's good at something doesn't mean they can teach it (if this were true, then every native English speaker would be a qualified English teacher ). Teaching competence is another super important factor, but that's beyond the realms of what the video and text link were talking about.

[GoktimusPrime]

In martial arts, the simple techniques are often the best. Here's a pretty easy technique that anyone can learn and practise and, if successfully performed, has a high probability of ending the attack straight away.

[Megatran]

In NRL circles, is that the squirrel grip?

[BruiseLee]

In NRL circles, is that the squirrel grip?

Think it's the setup move for the Hopoate.