Movie Critics Thread

[GoktimusPrime]

RE: Superman Richard Donner editions.

I actually grew up watching those, so to me, they're the normal versions. Way back when Channel 10 aired them and my dad taped them... so that's what I've always seen. And yes, in the end of Superman II Clark gives Lois a special kiss which selectively erases parts of her memory (i.e. she forgets that Clark is Superman and that they were married); because Lois was unable to handle the emotional burden of having that knowledge.

One thing I liked about Superman Returns was how Clark's attempt to do this wasn't completely successful -- Lois has still forgotten that Clark is Superman, but she obviously must still have some vague memory that they were former lovers... whether or not she remembers Kal-El taking vows at the Fortress of Solitude or not isn't shown, but toward the end of the film we see Lois whispering in Superman's ear and telling him that Jason is his son (and Superman later visits Jason and delivers the same oration to him that Jor-El said to Kal-El as he placed him in the spacecraft that delivered him from Krypton to Earth).

I know some people didn't like Superman Returns, but I did. IMHO it's an underrated/underappreciated film. I like how it remained in continuity with the first two Christopher Reeve films rather than doing a reboot... I know some people wanted to see a reboot (and those people will get their wish when Man of Steel comes out), but I much prefer continuations over reboots.

[loophole]

Basically agree with everything you said Paulbot

I thought it was bit long and a little slow moving.

I didnt see it in 3D so i can comment on that.

I hope they dont rush Peter out of high school like they did with the first one.

One thing that i sort of dont like is how his parents are made to be part of the bigger picture, and his dad helped create the spider that ended up biting Peter it seems a bit too coincindental

It will be interesting in which direction they will take with Gwen especially with what happened in the comics...

[gantz]

Originally Posted by Paulbot

I liked The Amazing Spider-Man but I didn't love it.

SPOILERS:

Hi Paul,

I agree with most of what you said, especially with the cranes, perhaps something he would have earned in a sequel.

Also, the Daily Bugle was the TV news Channel, which I though was both good and bad.

Also, and my main gripe, No SPIDER-SENSE. He has the proportionate strength and speed of a spider, that is going to make a man have lightning fast reflexes and speed, as he displayed with Flash, but his spider-sense is on another level than that.

Quite frankly, he would never have gotten shot in the leg had he had it.

your thoughts?

[GoktimusPrime]

Amazing Spider-Man Spoilers Ahead











I quite enjoyed Amazing Spider-Man. I agree that it definitely seems more inspired by Ultimate Spider-Man, which isn't too surprising considering that a lot of recent Marvel movie characters are more based on their Ultimate incarnations (e.g. Hawk-Eye, Nick Fury etc.). The thing about his parents indirectly contributing to him becoming Spider-Man is reminiscent of Ultimate Spider-Man.

Things I enjoyed:
+ Gwen Stacy. Not just a pretty tail (although she is rather stunning) for Peter to chase - she is also his intellectual peer and a courageous hero in her own right. She also sheds off the "hapless damsel in distress" thing... she was in danger at the end because she chose to place herself in harm's way for noble purposes. If she hadn't been there, then the story's end complication could not have been resolved. And of course, she didn't have a personality shift like M.J. did in the first Raimi film (cos let's face it, she was essentially Gwen Stacy during the scenes when they were in high school, then after finishing school she changed to become Mary Jane Watson )
+ Flash Thompson. A little bit more than just a mindless thug for the audience to hate, I like how he became a mirror to reflect Peter's own character development. The story begins with an aggressive Flash assaulting a meek Peter, only to later show us an aggressive Peter assaulting a meek Flash (when he came to express his condolences to Peter after Uncle Ben had been killed). That scene and subsequent portrayals of Flash showed that he wasn't a complete dipstick like he was portrayed in the Raimi film. Even in the beginning, the fact that he was being coached by Gwen showed that he at least did care about his academic results to some extent and wasn't a _complete_ jock-head. Sure, Flash is still just a minor character, but I appreciated those subtle things they did to flesh him out a bit more -- it makes Flash more of a character (even if just a minor one) rather than just another plot complication for the protagonist (which was really all Flash was in the Raimi film).
+ The relationship between Captain Stacy and Peter/Spider-Man was cool. Especially the dinner conversation which gave both parties food for thought. I like how Stacy changed from being an obstacle to being an ally for Peter.
+ This movie was better at portraying Spider-Man in a more comic-accurate light in terms of being a smart-arse wise-cracking fighter! The Raimi movie didn't do this quite so much, only a few token lines like, "That's a cute outfit, did your husband give it to you?" and "Here's your change!", and all the funny stuff Peter said when trying to activate his webbing ("Up up and away web!") but here Spider-Man's smart-arsery went up a whole notch! "Oh no, you've discovered my only weakness -- really small knives! Aaaah!" -- nice combination of physical and verbal comedy which is in character with the Spider-Man we know from the comics.
+ The library scene <---lololololol. Did anyone else notice that the librarian was dressed like Peter Parker from the 1960s comics?
+ I like how the story was more focused on a smaller time frame rather than extending itself more like the first Raimi film. It allowed for a tighter story.
+ Peter Parker isn't quite as squeaky clean -- as Paulbot said, it makes him a more believable/relatable character. The dude has emotional issues -- like a high school teenager! I also liked how he was a skater, because it made it more believable that he already had developed physical skills as a skater, which we see him apply in developing his skills for Spider-Man.
+ Doc Connors was in the film and became the Lizard! Very different from the Raimi trilogy where he appeared in each movie (he was mentioned in the first film and appeared in 2 and 3) but never became the Lizard.
+ Going back to using mechanical web shooters! Yeah baby!

Peter not working for the Daily Bugle honestly didn't bother me. I think that's better saved for a sequel when he's out of high school. The Daily Bugle does appear in the film though. As I said, I like how this movie is more focused on a more select portion of Peter's life rather than what the Raimi film did by skipping to post-graduation life. Both methods have their pros and cons, but I can understand why they chose to narrow their scope with this film.

The main thing I didn't like about this movie -- Aunt May seemed awfully accepting of the fact that Peter kept coming home each night looking like he'd had nine colours of snot beaten out of him! Sure, she got upset and wanted to know what happened -- but when Peter refused to tell, she was like, oh... please tell me... please. And that was kinda it. She didn't try grounding him or speaking to the school counsellor or doing anything else to try and find out what the hell was happening to her nephew. Oh dear, you forgot the eggs... screw the eggs! Unless Aunt May does have an idea of what's happening and she's intentionally playing dumb, I don't know.

Originally Posted by gantz

I agree with most of what you said, especially with the cranes, perhaps something he would have earned in a sequel.

I didn't mind that scene. The guy whose son Spidey saved seemed to be some kind of boss/foreman and he pretty much ordered those crane operators to configure the cranes that way -- we even heard him tell someone that they were "Getting that overtime." So basically, they were following orders and getting paid for it -- it was really that one foreman who was emotionally invested in wanting to help Spider-Man -- those other operators may have shared his spirit or they may have just been following orders because they were being paid overtime. It's like, "Gee, this seems like a weird request, but oh well, as long as I'm getting paid extra for this... what the hell."

Also, the film did mention earlier (during the dinner scene) that Spider-Man was being perceived as a hero by "most people" (where Capt. Stacy replied, "Most people would be wrong.").

Originally Posted by gantz

Also, and my main gripe, No SPIDER-SENSE. He has the proportionate strength and speed of a spider, that is going to make a man have lightning fast reflexes and speed, as he displayed with Flash, but his spider-sense is on another level than that.

He had Spider-Sense dude. We first saw it when he was in the subway train and being harassed by those dudes. When they tried to attack him his Spider-Sense went off and made him react automatically... even Peter had no idea what he was doing and kept on apologising to those people he was unintentionally beating up in self defence!
Also in his bedroom he suddenly became hyper-aware of everything around him, like a spider crawling on the wall... also his Spider-Sense went off like crazy when the wind was just blowing through the window blinds (it seemed to be perceiving the flapping blinds as a threat). I like how his Spider-Sense was so raw and primal at first, and Peter had to learn to focus it; and we see Peter experiment with his Spider-Sense more when he caught the basketball and challenged Flash Thompson. Then later on when he was kissing Gwen and caught the football and threw it away. I noticed the Spider-Sense each time he did an action scene. It's more subtle than in the Raimi film which slowed stuff down and used bullet-time to show it to the audience -- Amazing Spider-Man doesn't do this, but it's definitely there.

Originally Posted by gantz

Quite frankly, he would never have gotten shot in the leg had he had it.

Yeah he would have. Remember that he dodged those bullets from that cop before after he'd apprehended the car thief? So how could he dodge those bullets at shorter range but still get him a by a single bullet at longer range? Possible explanations:
1. Distracted/unfocused. Spider-Man had just revealed himself to Captain Stacy (very emotionally stressful) and was trying to hurry himself to Oscorp Tower to save Gwen and stop the Lizard. With all those things on his mind and heart, it may have affected his ability focus on dodging the bullet, especially after hearing Capt. Stacy order all officers to hold their fire, giving him a sense of security in the police as his allies, so his guard would have been down. 90% of a fight is psychological (just ask G1 Bombshell ).
2. No grounding. When he dodged the bullets he was standing on the ground, which makes it easier to dodge, duck and weave. When he was shot, he was swinging through the air on a web in a massively wide arc. The bullet is flying at him at super speed, it's jolly hard to get out of the way when you're in mid swing! You just cannot dodge anything when in mid-air. The only way he could have avoided a direct incoming ballistic missile such as a bullet is to shoot another web, decelerate, change direction, accelerate. The bullet would absolutely hit him before he could do that. When standing on the ground he's able to connect with the ground and use it to move himself -- it's what sports science calls plyometrics (we've discussed this in further detail on the martial arts discussion thread -- if you'd like to talk about this in more detail, feel free to ask there ).

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Chatting to a guy at work who felt that they didn't need to cover the origins side of Spiderman again, but after seeing it myself, I suspect they did, as it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they went off in the Spiderman clones story arc of the comics for any sequels.

I liked the smart arse Peter, but I never really got the feeling he was a nerdy underdog. That's what I liked about the Raimi Spiderman, the scene at the party in #2 where Peter ALWAYS just misses out on the drinks/snacks and stuff just showed how unlucky and dorky Peter was.

One thing that bugged me though was the webbing. I can handle mechanical webbing, but considering how he bought it from Ozcorp and in probably large amounts, would make it pretty easy to trace. If the cops really wanted him, they could get a sample (he leaves enough of it around) find out what it is, get some info on orders, which would look a bit like this:

• Company A
• Company B
• Company C
• Peter Parker
• company D
• Company E
• Hang on a sec...

And trace him that way... Add to that, Ozcorp would probably have a way to dissolve it somehow as well, making his webbing a serious weakness eventually...

And yeh, Why 3d? aside from about 3 parts in the city as Spiderman, no reason for 3d at all.

It was enjoyable, but certainly not Amazing.

Gonna get me the game now for some web slinging action, as soon as I finish off Harley Quinn!

[GoktimusPrime]

I watched it in good ol' fashioned 2D.

Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

I liked the smart arse Peter, but I never really got the feeling he was a nerdy underdog. That's what I liked about the Raimi Spiderman, the scene at the party in #2 where Peter ALWAYS just misses out on the drinks/snacks and stuff just showed how unlucky and dorky Peter was.

He's definitely not clumsy, but he's still a "nerd" -- member of the debating team, social outcast (he doesn't even socialise with other nerds), is still a whiz kid (check out that remote computer controlled lock on his bedroom door!) etc. They've still maintained the fundamental part about Peter being a highly intelligent but socially awkward/isolated school kid. Still the outsider.

Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

One thing that bugged me though was the webbing. I can handle mechanical webbing, but considering how he bought it from Ozcorp and in probably large amounts, would make it pretty easy to trace. If the cops really wanted him, they could get a sample (he leaves enough of it around) find out what it is, get some info on orders, which would look a bit like this:

• Company A
• Company B
• Company C
• Peter Parker
• company D
• Company E
• Hang on a sec...

And trace him that way... Add to that, Ozcorp would probably have a way to dissolve it somehow as well, making his webbing a serious weakness eventually...

Hmmm... I guess. But if it's like real spider webbing then it's pretty hard to see (how often have you walked into a spider's web in low light!) and it may even decay after several hours or a day. Also -- he shoots the webs up pretty high. The police would need to expend considerable resources to get up to those places to collect samples, and further resources to have them scanned in a lab. These are kind of resources that police often will spend when there's been say, a homicide... but since Spider-Man isn't actually wanted for murder (the arrest warrant stipulates that he's wanted for questioning) then perhaps they're not willing to do it. But I think the webbing's best defence is the fact that it's hard to see... kinda like the perception filter on the TARDIS.

This actually makes me think of something else that seems odd in this movie -- the two cops who shot at Spider-Man. Cops shouldn't (wouldn't?) do that. In both instances Spider-Man was not presenting a threat to those cops. The first time he actually had his hands up and was just talking to the cop before he opened fire repeatedly! The cop who shot him did so when Spider-Man was fleeing (especially after Captain Stacy had let him go and told officers not to fire). Cops get in trouble if they so much as draw their firearm without just cause... heck, even when cops do fire at someone who's attacking, they sometimes get in trouble! But to open fire on a suspect who's not attacking anyone at the time??

------------------------------------

P.S.: RE: Web shooters
One change of the franchise to reinvent the hero for the film was to go back to the original source material in the mainstream comics of Spider-Man having artificial web-shooters. Writer Geoff Boucher of the Los Angeles Times was skeptical of the change feeling that it's too hard to believe that a financially strapped young man to conceive a wrist-worn device that can instantly produce a strand of synthetic webbing. Even though there was skepticism of the change Webb himself felt that "the web-shooters were able to dramatize Peter's intellect". Webb paid attention to the question of "How would a kid make it?" And then took some license with it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ama...282012_film%29
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/...#comment-76324
http://herocomplex.latimes.com/2011/...t-but-do-they/

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime

Hmmm... I guess. But if it's like real spider webbing then it's pretty hard to see (how often have you walked into a spider's web in low light!) and it may even decay after several hours or a day. Also -- he shoots the webs up pretty high. The police would need to expend considerable resources to get up to those places to collect samples, and further resources to have them scanned in a lab. These are kind of resources that police often will spend when there's been say, a homicide... but since Spider-Man isn't actually wanted for murder (the arrest warrant stipulates that he's wanted for questioning) then perhaps they're not willing to do it. But I think the webbing's best defence is the fact that it's hard to see... kinda like the perception filter on the TARDIS.

They could get planty of samples off the guys who were tied up in it. The dud that was there when the first cop shot at Spidey and earlier, Spidey leaves a webbed up bad guy swinging outside a police station.

Just saying is all

[GoktimusPrime]

Perhaps the police don't have the means to examine the webbing at fine enough detail to link it to Oscorp -- and it wouldn't be known to the public that Oscorp had developed the webbing since it was found in a restricted access area secret lab... thing. Still... could come to bite Spidey on the bum later in a sequel? (e.g. Green Goblin might recognise it - though I'd prefer it if they stayed away from the villains used in the Raimi films & used 'new' ones those movies didn't use)

[gantz]

Though they did have a demonstration video on how they developed the web and it's capabilities in OsCorp.

So it was on the way to be released, if it hadn't already.

And I will put my spider-sense argument on hold till the sequel.

[1AZRAEL1]

Saw The midnight screening of The Dark Knight Rises. Fan-smegging-tastic. That is all