SPOILER THREAD - The Last Jedi

[Meister]

More originality and an unpredictable plot for me. This film took a lot of typical movie clichés and just flipped them on their heads.

Im not going to lie, one of the things I really enjoyed about this film were the shock twists that we weren't expecting (i.e. Snoke being wiped out, Rey's irrelevant parents), however, now that I know all these things, will the film stand up to my original impression on a second viewing now that I know what is going to happen?, I think my second viewing will be the real test of how this installment stacks up for me. Whilst I agree the route they decided to go gave a good shock factor, was it really anything special?, or just the most laziest way to go about it?, I mean Abrams did well to set up a whole host of characters and intrigue for them, and Johnson just threw it all in the bin?, its much easier to just brush all the hype aside like Johnson did for a cheap thrill than to actually try and build on the set up, creating more intrigue and direction for these questions to sustain the intrigue for a climactic reveal or twist in the final installment. I mean personally Iif I was Abrams I would be pretty p*ssed off with episode VIII, he did all this work to build up characters and Johnson comes round and kills them all off, I mean what has he got to work with now for Episode IX?, Snoke's dead, Luke's dead, Leia is presumably dead, no mystery behind Rey, even Phasma's dead?, its really just Ren vs Rey, in terms of a trilogy, it really took the legs and wind out from under the final installment.

Great acting from all cast members, and also greater gender and ethnic diversity in the cast. Hamill's performance as Luke Skywalker was just brilliant.

I agree, awesome acting from all the main cast.

Great visual effects, sounds and music.

Also agree, although some of the CGI characters weren't totally up to scratch

The Easter Eggs didn't feel forced or hammy. Like when Artoo shows Luke Leia's old "Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi" recording. Great homage but it also contributed to the story. It's not like say Dr Evazan and Ponda Baba at Jehda in Rogue One which was nothing more than an Easter Egg for fans but did nothing else.

Loved that scene, it was a perfect moment for Luke and R2, and a great plot point

The throne room battle was FANTASTIC! Reminds me of when Optimus Prime and Megatron teamed up within Unicron in Transformers Prime.

Excellent comparison (although personally I would still rate that Optimus and Megatron co-op as the better scene, seriously it was the best thing I've seen from Transformers since the animated movie)

The Ren vs Skywalker fight was also really cool. Loved how Luke didn't leave any footprints on the salt-covered ground.

A mate of mine brought that up, I was planning on paying attention to it for my second viewing, I missed it on the first viewing

So cool seeing Leia finally using a Force power to save herself. She was essentially doing an extended Force Pull to pull herself back inside the ship. And it is possible for someone to survive in a vacuum for that length of time. Watch this video if you want to learn about the science behind it. As for why she even has any Force powers, this should be obvious. Obviously she is also the daughter of Anakin Skywalker just like Luke. And in Return of the Jedi Yoda tells Luke to pass on what he has learned, and Luke later tells Leia that, "In time, you'll have this power too." So it was always stated that Luke would train Leia. And in the end we see Luke connect with Leia through the Force and also physically transferred Han's dice from the Falcon (just as Kylo Ren accidentally transferred drops of water from Ahch-To) -- this level of Force connection only seems possible between powerful Force users. Speaking of which...

OK so I dig the fact that they finally got to show Leia's connection with the force, and I also liked how they wished to portray it as only coming into play as a sort of subconcious survival instinct, but it really looked and felt off to me, it just didn't feel like it was executed correctly, it looked silly and out of place. I couldn't help but think WTF in my mind when I saw it, even though I understood the concept and liked the idea behind it.

Further evolution of Force powers! Powerful Force users are now able to connect across great distances and even transfer matter via the Force. And this is not necessarily a new concept - previous films have established that some Force powers are only accessible at higher levels. e.g. only highly accomplished Sith Lords can project lightning. Darth Maul and Darth Vader were never able to do this (Vader most likely because he lacked sufficient organic matter to even tap into the Force at that level despite his continued progression in the Dark Side). Before Qui Gon Jinn Jedi were never able to commune beyond the grave, and it was Obi-Wan and Yoda who were taught, by Qui Gon, how to further develop this power and appear as Force ghosts. Obi-Wan was also the first Jedi to be able to become one with the Force upon death and disappear. This surprised Vader as we see him stepping on Obi-Wan's cloak to ensure that it wasn't some kind of illusion/trick. The Force isn't a stagnant thing -- it's ever evolving and growing. Users of the Force continue to learn and develop new techniques as they try to achieve their Ultimate Form.

I didn't know how to feel about this cause a lot of the times, while I thought the scenes were cool (i.e. Rey and Ren's force conersations, and Lukes force projection, I was also thinking, are we saying the force can now do this?, if so, what can't we do with the force?, basically you can introduce anything, maybe Rey will be able to fly like superman in Episode IX, and shoot lasers from her eyes, and breath ice, etc..., what are the parameters here?, cause I thought I knew them

This movie blurs the lines of good and evil. Rey isn't necessarily looking to be a light side user, she just wants to know what this power is and what her place is. <Insert HSC English rant about belongment> Kylo Ren also isn't entirely convinced about the Dark Side either. We know he's conflicted, but in this film he talks about how he wants to destroy everything. The light, the dark, the Resistance, the First Order... he wants to tear it all down. He wants to kill Snoke just as much as he wants to kill Skywalker, and ultimately succeeds in doing both. And I do wonder if Kylo also felt Luke's passing through the Force as Rey and Leia did, or did he choose who he want to communicate that feeling with. We'll find out in the next movie. What might be interesting is if this trilogy ends with neither the light or dark side winning, but rather the rise of the Grey Jedi. Those who embrace elements from both the light and dark sides and achieving a balance in the Force.

I really thought that they would emphasize on this aspect (grey force area) in this one, that that was what the original Jedi's were trying to master, an individual's balance of both the light and dark sides, rather than focusing only on the one aspect, but it never went that way.

One interesting thing from the Canto Bite scene was how they showed that there are the same people gunrunning for both the Resistance and the First Order and getting filthy rich from doing so. Much like the Quintessons did between the Xetaxxans and the Lanarqans, as well as countless actual examples from real life. And people like the Code Breaker doesn't consider either side to be any better or worse than the other. His loyalty only lies with whoever is paying him. And before we criticise the Code Breaker too harshly, remember that Han Solo started off being just like this in A New Hope. He only cared about his reward. He did change at the end, and that was indeed Han's character journey. But the Code Breaker is pretty much like Han only that he hasn't gone on a journey to make him change his moral code. And heck, we know that Han even reverts back to being just a mercenary after his son fell to the Dark Side.

This was one of my main gripes of this scene, the introduction of the Galaxy's elite who profiteer off of the war, like did Star Wars really have to go and incorporate the whole 1% thing?, can't it just be a sci-fi fantasy?, you know like the Lord of the Rings was a medieval fantasy, can you imagine how ridiculous it would be if they tried to incorporate the 1% of mid-earths elite profiteering off of the war between the Orcs and Man, seriously there was no need for Star Wars to go there, I put that down to lazy story telling and lack of ideas.

This film really takes a far darker tone and the good guys just can't seem to get a break here. And the film ends on a grim note with a glimmer of hope. This really reminds me of The Empire Strikes Back. This movie is essentially "The First Order Strikes Back," cos yeah... that's exactly what they did.
[list]"Why didn't the Dreadnought just destroy the diminished Resistance ships?"

The only plot comparisons I see with Empire is the fact that the whole movie is about the goodies being chased by the baddies and a young Jedi in training, other than that, they are two completely different movies, no where near on the same level as each other.

The main reason would be to use it as an emotional ploy to enrage Rey in an attempt to turn her to the Dark Side of the Force. The Emperor did the same thing to Luke Skywalker in Return of the Jedi...
"Hold here."
"We're not going to attack?"
"I have my orders from the Emperor himself. He has something special
planned for them. We only need to keep them from escaping."

This is a good point you highlighted, I never considered that aspect of it, if they had emphasized the reasoning from Snoke's point of view (or made that connection verbally) then yes the whole slow chase would have made a lot more sense, but I guess they didn't want to draw a direct comparison with Return of the Jedi

For me this film has many more pros than cons. Not the best Star Wars movie -- the Force Awakens did have better pacing even though its story wasn't as deep and was more predictable. So while it's by no means perfect, I still regard it as a good movie. If the next Bayformers movie were to be half as good as this film...

Again I can not deny I really enjoyed my first experience viewing it, although I left with mixed feelings about a lot if it, I nevertheless was on the edge of my seat during a lot of the scenes with a big stupid grin on my face.

Admittedly, there are a few things that didn't sit well with me i.e. Leia's Mary Poppins, excessive cheap gags, Yoda ghost lightning (I guess you can do anything with the force these days, even when you're dead) which I am happy to overlook, but if there was anything that I would say I was actually annoyed with or didn't agree with, its Luke dying at the end, cause really, why the hell did he die?, what caused him to die?, they literally trampled and dragged his character through the mud to finally sort of bring him back for the final act, and then for no apparent reason he goes OK, I guess I'll just die now?, like wtf? it made absolutely no sense and I think they did a disservice to his character, I mean this is LUKE F SKYWALKER we are talking about here. Wouldn't it of made more sense that when he disconnected with his projection, after telling Kylo "the war is just beginning and I will not be the last jedi", after staring into the sunset with a determined look, he gets up, makes his way down to the bottom of the cliff where his X-wing is raising to the surface of the water, passes R2 saying "C'mon R2, there is much to be done" and you see them flying out towards the atmosphere where he intends to join up with the Rebels to lead the fight in against the first order in Episode IX (where we can finally see him be the Master Jedi we were all hoping for in this installment, buiding up support for the Rebels with his legendary feats such as force crushing Tie Fighters or AT-At's or even a Star Destroyer, before dying and passing the torch to Rey at some point in episode IX). But no, instead for no apparent reason he just goes, hey I think I'll just die. Look it is what it is (and I know I just elaborated on my own personal fan fantasy), but I just think they did a disservice with his character to end it like they did, especially after dragging him through the mud like they did, I just didn't see the final act as really redeeming his character enough, I think he deserved a bit more of a meaningful and heroic send off, Luke Skywalker (and the Skywalker line) deserved more.

Return of the Jedi was the perfect end for Luke and the Skywalkers. Now i just think we are left with something less.