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View Poll Results: G1 Animal Sidekick Transformers - what level of cognition?
Fully-Sentient 7 41.18%
Semi-Sentient 2 11.76%
Drone 0 0%
Depends on the individual 1 5.88%
Depends on the continuity 2 11.76%
Cassettes are but Action Master Partners aren't 5 29.41%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 9th April 2013, 10:54 PM
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With the cassette bots in the G1 cartoon, although they were pets and were sometimes used as a utility, rather than a sentient being, they still seemed to show some form of sentient behaviour, whether it be conversing with their master or other bots. Rumble and Frenzy were very much like this.

Even most of the animal cassettes showed some form of being a sentient being, such as using their own tactics (though questionably, this could be in their programming) and communicating with other cassette bots/cons. (particularly in the case of the Autobot cassettes)

In the Headmasters as well, both the Bots' and Cons' respective cassettes showed remorse for the loss of their master and joy upon their return/resurrection.

This also brings forth the notion that when Blaster and Soundwave were both (brutally) killed in The Headmasters series, their cassette minions stayed living, which contradicts other forms of drones, such as the drone for the Scientist class in FOC, which explodes upon death of the player in multiplayer. (this could be argued against, as it is a game and seperate continuities also affect the laws and physics in that particular universe.)

So, in my own opinion at least, the G1 cassettes pretty much had their own sentimentality and just happened to side themself with their master and take the form of a cassette that takes residence inside of them.

Action Masters are kind of iffy, but I honestly treat them as semi-sentient or as drones.)
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  #12  
Old 10th April 2013, 09:53 AM
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Ravage did speak in the G1 cartoon, although he could only do it in cassette mode and had to speak through Soundwave.

BigAngryTrev: just out of curiosity, how do you feel about other bestial partners or components for Transformers? Would you consider them to possess some level of sentience or simply as non-sentient artificially intelligent drones? Even if some of them are explicitly marketed as "drones," remember that the word 'drone' applies in nature to things like some male insects that were born from unfertilised eggs (e.g. bees, ants, wasps etc.) -- although insects aren't sentient.
So things like:
* Power Core Combiner Dinobots
* Depth Charge's shark
* BW Scorponok's Cyber-Bee
* BW Sandstorm's Cyber-Bee
* Polar Claw's bat
* Grizzly-1/Barbearian's bat
* TF Prime Laserbeak
etc.
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  #13  
Old 10th April 2013, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post

BigAngryTrev: just out of curiosity, how do you feel about other bestial partners or components for Transformers? Would you consider them to possess some level of sentience or simply as non-sentient artificially intelligent drones? Even if some of them are explicitly marketed as "drones," remember that the word 'drone' applies in nature to things like some male insects that were born from unfertilised eggs (e.g. bees, ants, wasps etc.) -- although insects aren't sentient.
So things like:
* Power Core Combiner Dinobots
* Depth Charge's shark
* BW Scorponok's Cyber-Bee
* BW Sandstorm's Cyber-Bee
* Polar Claw's bat
* Grizzly-1/Barbearian's bat
* TF Prime Laserbeak
etc.
Well a few of those I am not familiar with but I'll answer those I am:

*PCC Dinobots (Wish I had'em!) - Na, drones
* Depth Charge's (the only Maximal I own) Shark - it's just a shark shaped gun isn't it? Not even a drone, more a tool
*Don't know the next 4
*TF Prime Laserbeak - oh how I wanted him to be sentient but it says specifically he's a drone so I have to live with it
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  #14  
Old 10th April 2013, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigTransformerTrev View Post
* Depth Charge's (the only Maximal I own) Shark - it's just a shark shaped gun isn't it? Not even a drone, more a tool
In the cartoon he could deploy it and it would swim independently and conduct reconnaissance - much like TF Prime Laserbeak, only aquatic. Scorponok's Cyber Bee could do the same thing, and also had a cyber-venom attack (it once infected Optimus Primal with a virus that made him extremely aggressive/violent). Having said that, the Maximals were able to hack into the Cyber Bee and use it, somewhat similar to when Wheeljack hacked Laserbeak.

Heh, all this talk of sentience makes me think of the Beast Wars episode "Transmutate" which deals with a Cybertronian who is sentient, but very mentally retarded and in possession of physically destructive capability; under such circumstances, should that being be allowed to continue living or should it be terminated for the sake of others? (i.e. does the needs to the many outweigh the needs of the individual?)

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  #15  
Old 10th April 2013, 06:04 PM
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From the very beginning - i.e. #1 of the US comic and the tech specs, the bestial cassettes were shown to have personalities and be intelligent. In every continuity the animal cassettes have been shown to be as sentient as the other Transformers. The real question is whether they're always as sapient as a 'normal' Transformer.
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  #16  
Old 12th April 2013, 07:43 AM
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Unless specifically stated otherwise, or clearly a weapon (like bee or shark guns/missiles), I consider them all sentient, because I view the different modes they has as no different to how people look different.

Just because Wingthing was an Action Master partner (or TargetMaster according to Dreamwave, which makes sense to me), doesn't make him less sentient; it just makes him like Soundwaves PA.
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  #17  
Old 12th April 2013, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gouki View Post
Just because Wingthing was an Action Master partner (or TargetMaster according to Dreamwave, which makes sense to me), doesn't make him less sentient; it just makes him like Soundwaves PA.
So would you consider Wingthing and Catgut to be as equally sentient or sapient as say Turbo Board and Vanguard? If one were to accept the bestial moded AM partners as being potentially sentient or sapient, then why not those with vehicular modes? After all, Raindance and Grand Slam have vehicular robot modes and they're presented as being sentient/sapient Autobots. Is it because Grand Slam and Raindance combine to form a gestalt robot? In that case, what about Power Core Combiner limb components like the PCC Dinobots? They have bestial modes and can combine to form a gestalt robot.
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  #18  
Old 13th April 2013, 12:21 AM
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I was thinking about it, and I don't think Soundwave's cassettes have spoken in the IDW comics. I know they were under Skywatch control for a little while. Ratbat sure did, but we saw his unique "origin" in Megatron: Origin. I think the only Transformer with a beastmode and no robot mode that we've seen treated as a "full" Transformer has been Sky Lynx.

Some others thoughts I've had on this topic:

The idea of the action master animals (and I too liked Dreamwave labeling them "Targetmasters") being pets raises another question. Does Cybertron have wildlife and if so why and what's it nature? I know the cartoon writers like to throw out expressions like "roboto-possum" and there's those "turbofoxes" and so on, but actual depictions of wildlife on Cybertron are very rare.

If Transformers life was the result of "intelligent design", did Primus also populate their planet with animals. Transformers don't eat robot animals (that I can recall seeing), so what was the purpose? Did the war's drain on energon reserves cause mass extinction to Cybertron's other, non sentient/sapient, inhabitants?

I think it makes more sense that any Cybertronian wildlife was artificially created by Transformers and let loose. (For example AHM and FOC seemed to depict Insecticons as a form of natural wildlife but artificially enhanced/expirements.) Some TFs (like Ravage and Laserbeak) may have adapted modes similar to the wildlife creatures for the advantages the form gave them and as disguise (disguises that got less useful as the wildlife died out). Or maybe they were just forged that way? Every shape serves a purpose afterall.
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  #19  
Old 13th April 2013, 01:55 PM
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Ravage has talked in both the regular IDW comics (e.g. Spotlight: Soundwave) and of course he talks in the Beast Wars ones.
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  #20  
Old 13th April 2013, 04:16 PM
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Oh yeah. Just looking it up he was talking in RID too. I think it's the mind controlled appearances that are sticking out more in my memory. And when he was a dog in AHM...
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