Martial arts discussion thread

[Bartrim]

A friend of mine who used to train at a MMA gym said his instructor would have old lawn mowers that wouldn't start and part of the training was to stand there and try and start the mowers by pulling the cord repeatedly. It took him a while to realise it was actually improving his hip twisting.

[GoktimusPrime]

Making a student do your chores as part of training? That's some Mr. Miyagi stuff right there!

[GoktimusPrime]

A black belt instructor (let's call him "Ted"*) from a GKR Dojo that I used to train at recently shared a photo of a finger that he broke last year after attempting to block a kick with an open hand. I say again, this person is a black belt and an instructor. Not a noob. And I reckon the injury would've been far worse if he were sparring against a more powerful kicker, like say a Muay Thai fighter.

In Tai Chi we're always taught to block kicks with our legs, not with our arms or hands. And I have sparred with MT fighters before without injury. Bloody sore legs from absorbing those powerful kicks, but no bruises or lasting injuries. I can go to work the next day (Ted had to take time off work and hasn't trained in over half a year). Ted was admitted to hospital and is still waiting for the doctor to say that he's allowed to resume his karate training after sustaining a similar injury to his foot. It just baffles me that there are people in dubious schools who are sustaining injuries which would be preventable through the use of better techniques and training.

And as I've often said, this sort of stuff affects all martial artists, as it will continue to drive up the cost of insurance premiums for all schools/instructors, which in turn are passed onto students.

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Disclaimer: The experiences of this individual person and school may not reflect that of other schools.
*Not actual name

[GoktimusPrime]

Found this interesting video which deals with the question of whether or not traditional moves (Kung Fu in this case) can still work in a street fight or MMA match. This video specifically looks at the idea of the rolling fist, which is a technique that I quite like using too. The video talks about the advantage of this technique being that it's one that a lot of people aren't familiar with, and while I agree with this, there's another key advantage to this technique that he hasn't explicitly mentioned, and that is that the rolling fist travels on the same linear angle as the first punch. If you watch the part of the video where he demonstrates the rolling punch at the camera, and later when he explains about how you leave the elbow out, you can see the inherent strength of this technique. Most other punches, like jabbing, rely on the puncher having to "rechamber" the shot. i.e. needing to pull the arm back in order to throw a successive punch. This rechambering gives an immediate visual cue to the opponent that you are about to throw another punch, thus allowing him the opportunity to counter you. The beauty of the rolling over punch is that there is no rechambering of your shoulder/arm to follow up with the successive strike. The shoulder and upper arm remain in position, and the rolling strike travels on the same line.

Here are a few screen grabs to help illustrate my points...

First is the demonstration of a typical series of punches. Here you can see the 'rechambering' between each shot. His head and shoulders move as he throws each successive punch. A keen opponent would naturally keep his eyes trained on the 'triangle' between the attacker's forehead and shoulders to track his movements.


Now here is the rolling strike. The idea here is that the head and shoulders don't move and pre-emptively give away the incoming successive strike.

Actually, he's not really doing it properly at this point in the video. The downward rolling strike should should be coming down at a 90 degree angle, not 45 degrees. The 90 degree angle makes it much more difficult to predict. Also, he shouldn't be dropping the elbow. Leaving the elbow out is vital as a defensive guard in case you stuff up and the opponent advances in on you (thus your elbow is already positioned to collide with his teeth).

He does execute the technique a lot better when he demonstrates it side on, as seen here...

You can see here that the head, shoulders and upper arms remain stationary, it is the forearm rolling downward from a 90 degree angle to strike the opponent.

However there is one change that he's made to this technique which he doesn't correct (he may not know that he's doing it incorrectly), and that is the point of impact. He describes the downward strike as a hammer strike, but it should be a back fist (i.e. striking with the knuckles; known as the Uraken-uchi in Karate), ideally on the ridge of the nose. This is a common technique used in many martial arts, but the advantage of delivering it via a rolling strike is that it adds the element of surprise or unpredictability. It's a nose ridge strike that they won't see coming. Also, this can work better if the initial punch is a low one (e.g. stomach strike), as it acts as a diversion (eliciting the opponent to think that your intended target is the stomach, but in actuality you're aiming to hit his face). You can throw one or two successive strikes at the stomach, followed immediately by a rolling strike to the face.

[GoktimusPrime]

Found this video demonstrating Muay Chaiya, a traditional form of Thai boxing. I confess that I don't really know much about this martial art, but looking at the video it's evident that this is a more traditional form, and very different from the modern sport of Muay Thai/kickboxing.

Just as with any other traditional style, you can see that the Muay Chaiya fighter always aims to end the fight as quickly as possible. The fights are never protracted. And with many more advanced traditional techniques, the defender moves towards the attacker so that he can incapacitate or immobilise him. There is no tit-for-tat point sparring here, only the immediate termination of the assault. There are also no high kicks - clearly Muay Chaiya fighters, like all other traditional fighters, must value not being attacked in the groin! Speaking of which, watch the video closely at 04'55" when the teacher defends himself from two armed attackers. Yep, he strikes both attackers in the groin in a single double-strike! You'll also notice that the way that he stands and moves is much more traditional. Comparatively lower and deeper stances, none of the higher bouncing or leaping stances/techniques that they use in Muay Thai. I watched another video a few days ago where a Muay Boran instructor from Phuket said that in Thailand, Muay Thai is regarded as a sport, while other forms of Thai boxing such as Muay Boran, Muay Chaiya etc. are regarded as combat.

[GoktimusPrime]

No Touch Chi Master challenges Mixed Martial Artist with hilariously predictable results.

[GoktimusPrime]

How to beat a flashy swordsman <---this very short video pretty much demonstrates why fancy looking moves in real life just don't work, and the best moves are really quite dull and uninteresting to watch. But effective. Martial arts are designed to work, not to entertain. You can apply this to almost every fancy/flashy looking move out there. Yeah.

[GoktimusPrime]

Got back into formal training this morning for the first time in aaaaages. Feeling buggered! I joined a Tai Chi group that practices early on Saturday mornings. On the plus side, the sessions are free (), however on the down side:
* It's far -- a good 35km drive from my home
* They start early at 08:30.
* They only do forms practice, no applications or anything else.
Like many Tai Chi classes, it's run as a form of holistic exercise (akin to Yoga or Pilates classes) rather than a combat art. Although after the session was finished I saw one guy explaining to someone else about generating power from the core, as well as the importance of keeping a tight guard. I don't think they even understand why these things are important, as far as fight applications are concerned, they just consider it right because that's just how the movements are supposed to be done. He also corrected another person on his a strike moving from too far out to the side, whereas it should be moving more vertically down like an overarm bowl in cricket. The application for this would be similar to that of the rolling fist strike; i.e. allowing the delivery of a strike without "rechambering" the shot, thus making it harder for the opponent to see the hit coming. There was also another guy who briefly spoke to me about reducing the size of my movements to make them more effective in a fight; the idea of "movement economy." So there do seem to be a few people who at least understand the fight concepts of Tai Chi (even if they aren't necessarily practising it themselves).

I'm also dragging my mother-in-law along in order to improve her fitness. And this sort of class is ideal for her. I did work up a massive sweat at the end of the session, so as far as fitness is concerned, it's good for me too.

[Bartrim]

On the last day before our gym closes for Xmas holidays we are having a competition. The Muay Thai/MMA classes vs Fitness Kickboxing Class vs Crossfit in a series of events.

Should be fun

[GoktimusPrime]

I recently watched a video posted by a GKR Karate instructor showing how they'd taught a 7 year old girl self defence, with the caption, "best self defence ever."

Scenario: a man has grabbed the girl by her wrist.
Defence: girl smashes the man's grabbing hand to make him let go. She then sweeps his leg.

Are you kidding me?!? The odds of a 7 year old girl being able to overpower a full grown man who has already grabbed her is highly bloody unlikely! And of course, the attacker was over compliant. He made no attempt to move or fight back as the girl executed her defensive techniques, which would never happen in a real life situation. An adult who wants to kidnap a child won't stop struggling until he's achieved his evil task. There's honestly not all that much that small children can do against a full grown adult other than just screaming at the top of their lungs. Even biting, clawing, scratching, spitting at the eyes etc. might work better, and yes, hitting the groin if the child can get in range (which is much harder since they're so much smaller). But honestly, the best form of self defence for young children is vigilant adult supervision! It's concerning that these martial arts schools are taking parents' money and their kids are spending hours learning techniques that they are told will protect them in a fight, when it's more likely to have the opposite effect.

Even if these techniques did work, it's highly unlikely that a small child would be able to maintain the presence of mind to successfully execute them. "Panic techniques" work much better (such as screaming, biting, clawing etc.). If s/he's going to kick, kick at the shins (teach the child to kick at the shins as if s/he were kicking a football).