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  #71  
Old 30th December 2017, 08:28 PM
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GoktimusPrime GoktimusPrime is offline
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in TFA hux and kylo meet with snoke and talk, what, 3 times? he is more involved in the story straight away and seems to have some kind of personal connection or interest in kylo. he is also the 'new' emperor leading the 'new' empire. I think in this context he needs more explanation.
Darth Maul is more than just a background character yet we knew practically nothing about him. Same with Count Dooku. All we know is:
* He used to be a Jedi who left the Order and turned to the Dark Side
* He was Yoda's student and Qui Gon Jinn's master
* He's allied with the Separatists
...that's it. Why did he leave the Jedi Order? That's a pretty big deal. Why/how did he turn to the Dark Side? Why does he hold the title of Count when the Jedi are all about breaking off emotional attachments? None of these things are explained in-film.

Heck, we know practically nothing about Yoda either. All we know is that he's a super-powerful sage-like Jedi who was head of the Order. How did he become a Jedi? Who taught him? How did he become so wise and powerful? We don't even know what planet he's from or even what species he is. Even expanded canon has never named his species, they just call it Yoda's species. And in the Original Trilogy we don't even know that much about Obi-Wan Kenobi either. All we know is that he's a former Jedi who was Vader's teacher, veteran of the Clone Wars and Yoda's pupil and... that's pretty much it. We have no idea what the Clone Wars even was (as a kid I thought that the Jedi were clones, and that "O.B.-1" was his clone name ).

But at the end of the day, these characters are not protagonists, hence why the story doesn't become served by expanding on them (rather it would be a diversion). Yoda replaced Obi-Wan Kenobi as the Hero's Mentor. And characters like the Emperor and Snoke are the Villain's Mentor. Star Wars at its core is a story about the Hero's Journey. This is why Star Wars was an English HSC prescribed text.
Area of Study: Change
Focus: Changing Worlds

Whenever I teach film texts (or any text really), the focus is always on the protagonist. We don't examine the mentor unless it somehow relates to the protagonist. Although Spirited Away is interesting in that the role of the mentor constantly shifts, and at times the line between protagonist and mentor becomes blurred. But in your typical Hero's Journey story there's usually defined protagonist and mentor roles.
e.g.
Gandalf-->Frodo
Glinda the Good Witch-->Dorothy
Morpheus-->Neo
Dumbledore-->Harry Potter
Merlin-->King Arthur
Kesuke Miyagi-->Daniel Larusso
Aslan-->the Pevensie children
Uncle Ben-->Peter Parker
Emmett Brown-->Marty McFly
Whistler-->Blade
...etc.

In the current film text that I'm teaching, I've yet to see any HSC questions appear that focus on the mentor character. In fact, here is this year's Japanese Extension HSC paper. Almost all of the questions pertain to the protagonist, Daigo. Question (D) is the only one that even mentions the mentor character (Sasaki) and even then it's only in relation to the protagonist:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NSW HSC
(d)「いい加減なこといわないでください!」(line 26)
Explain what this statement reveals about how Daigo views Mr Sasaki.
The question only wants to know what this statement reveals the protagonist's view about the mentor. And indeed when we look at the sample answers, the answer for this particular question is:
This statement shows that (the protagonist) feels irritated by (the mentor)’s false flattery when he tells (the protagonist) that ‘he was born to do the...job. It’s his calling’. (The protagonist) thinks that it’s very ‘convenient’ or even selfish of (the mentor) to say this, because the only thing that (the mentor) cares about is to employ (the protagonist)/keep him employed.
Notice how everything in this sample answer is entirely from the protagonist's point of view. And the marking criteria is based on the candidate's ability to "Demonstrate a good understanding of how (the protagonist) views (the mentor)." Neither the question nor the marking criteria gives two hoots about the mentor. It's ultimately the protagonist who matters because it is his (or her) journey that drives the story.
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  #72  
Old 31st December 2017, 12:22 PM
drifand drifand is offline
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This isn't the 80s though and while it works for episodes 4-6, it's why 1-3 failed and we learned nothing from it?

As Griffin did pointed out, I am curious how FO got enough power to continue after the emperor is dead. Which is actually a valid reason to at least talk about Snoke getting in power. Leia , Luke and Han know Snoke so at least talking about him would work, no need to show it. Just like Obwan talked about Anakin.

I only know Snoke has probably battled with Luke if not Anakin as he recognised the lightsaber immediately.

While time is wasted on characters that did almost nothing to the story line, this was the let down of this episode. Is like "why even bother?".

This is becoming bunch of side stories characters, rather then a good movie.
While Adam Driver has lifted his game in acting but Kylo does not strike me as a unmerciful villain. The fact that both Kylo and Rey worked together, it would have conflicting issues of his dark path. But anyway we will see what's next as they really need to make kylo really bad and even Leia gives up hope in her son in order to really capture the moment that he has turned fully.

If we go back to non official books, that story line had realistic value, Storm Troopers were expensive and they would actually think about their missions.
Heck how on earth you can make a star killer base without anyone knowing is unbelievable and continue to make so many different destroyers questions about all the unlimited credit card amount is owing lol. is almost like "Yay the emperor is dead, lets go crazy buying and making that supremacy and new walkers that we always wanted".

Last edited by drifand; 31st December 2017 at 04:19 PM.
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  #73  
Old 2nd January 2018, 10:27 PM
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Tetsuwan Convoy Tetsuwan Convoy is offline
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Watched it yesterday and enjoyed it more than FA. But that's not really saying much as I felt bored by that one following previous movies too closely. Haven't read the whole thread, but I felt the movie dragged a little bit and while I understand the Finn/whatsername section was meant to be a learning point for Po, it went on for too long and it was at that point, I started noticing the time.

There are the plot issues about the TLJ and whatnot, but I like what changed in the movie. Luke was portrayed well with his doubts and stuff, so now there are no official Jedi.

While I find emo Ren kind of annoying, in a way, we have a shift from the usual SW crap, as there are no Jedi, no sith lord and his apprentice. Ren is the only sith guy about (is he even a sith now?) and he's unstable and in charge of the FO.

It surprised me in that the plot bits I thought would happen didn't and there were some very cool bits.

I've always had an issue with the FO TBH. They're a big force, that don't use clones, they steal children and train them up, but looking at how many of them there are, I find it incredibly hard to believe that worlds' governments wouldn't have noticed that an awful lot of children are missing. It just seems unfeasible to me. If its slave traders that are doing the work, then how do so many traders get by?

I guess in the end, I'm not THAT huge a fan of Star Wars, so perhaps I'm a bit lighter on it than others. I found it an enjoyable movie. Although the volume was extremely loud and that frigging music at the start suddenly blaring at me always makes me jump. I really hate that.
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  #74  
Old 2nd January 2018, 11:20 PM
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Sadly child soldiers are a thing though. In real life they happen in poor countries like Afghanistan, the Central African Republic, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Iraq, Myanmar, Nigeria, Somalia, South Sudan, Syria, Yemen etc. So it's possible that these Stormtroopers are being taken from poorer worlds, possibly on the Outer Rim. Even during the time of the Republic things like slavery still existed on far off worlds like Tatooine. As Shmi Skywalker explained to Padmé, in these worlds civilisation just doesn't exist. And we see this still happening in the period of the Original Trilogy (Tatooine is still a lawless world controlled by gangsters) and we know that it happens in the Sequels too. Just look at Jakku. We now know that Rey was an indentured child slave herself.

But think about it, there are multiple countries in our world today which recruits child soldiers, including terrorist organisations like Islamic State and the Christian Lord's Resistance Army etc. The LRA's use of child soldiers was briefly brought to the world's attention with the #Kony2012 movement... but then everyone promptly forgot about it, cos hey, it's 2013 and Oppan Gangnam Style! The Syrian conflict has displaced more people than WWII () but we don't care because it's not happening in a developed Western country. We cared for a little while in 2015 when photos of a drowned 3 year old boy's body washed ashore in Turkey. Since then we sometimes care... we see video or photos of victims... bombings, chemical attacks... horrible stuff. But then we forget about it.

Think about it... what do we call a basic foot soldier in an army? Infantry. From the Latin word 'infans' meaning small child. Obviously most infantry are made up of adults, but the word itself still draws its origins from when children were used as arrow fodder. Lots and lots and lots of children going missing and joining armies around the world today, yet we turn a blind eye to it on a daily basis.
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  #75  
Old 3rd January 2018, 08:33 AM
drifand drifand is offline
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Has this became a Religion war story?
It sounds like Christians and Islamic having a go and somewhere in between there is the balance? hmm.... Grey Jedi is no more than another Religion?

Sounds like the story just base on Light and darkness. And yes episode nine we get spectrum of colours.

If you are a Star Wars fan, I think you will fall under very disappointed how Luke's character was done or love it as you hated the past crap.

I find a lot of videos of fans thinking the twist is TLJ and thinking how it will go.
And I feel very sorry for them trying not to accept the obvious outcome that it will NOT end the way they thought out to be.

If you are emotionally attached to Star Wars I feel you be more heart broken following the fan theories at this point. A big warning, you will be disappointed as a lot of "good ideas" are definitely not going to be implemented. Sadly star Wars isn't Game of Thrones, and is actually predictable.

I feel the tables has turned, I am actually enjoying Star Trek movies a bit more than how Star Wars is going. But overall can't be as bad as Bay's Transformers, and I hope it stays that way.
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  #76  
Old 4th January 2018, 10:28 PM
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words
what is the foil to a protagonist?
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  #77  
Old 5th January 2018, 08:37 AM
Ralph Wiggum Ralph Wiggum is offline
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Just saw it a second time, at the IMAX theatre in the Smithsonian in Washington DC It’s a really enjoyable movie, and is a worthy successor to TFA. But is it better than Empire, as some have been saying? Nah...not even close.
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  #78  
Old 6th January 2018, 12:27 AM
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Have seen it three times. I enjoy it more with every viewing.
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  #79  
Old 7th January 2018, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Darth Maul is more than just a background character yet we knew practically nothing about him.
Seriously?
You haven't watched The Clone Wars, read the canon comics or seen Rebels?
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  #80  
Old 7th January 2018, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jetfire in the sky View Post
Seriously?
You haven't watched The Clone Wars, read the canon comics or seen Rebels?
I think Goks point is when the Phantom Menace came out we knew nothing about him and it has only been the clone wars, books and other media that have fleshed him out ( pun intended).
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