Canon

[Verno]

What is it?

Where did it come from?

Should new Transformers stories abide by it?

How does something become 'canon'?

I was recently discussing a few things with Gok in the Vector Sigma / Transmetal Driver thread (it's a good read, have a look) and Gok continually pulled me up on this little issue of Canon, as he saw me ideas as acting outside the boundaries of what is considered 'official' Transformers fact.

The reason I raise it is that I'm writing somewhat of a Transformers Comic, with a storyline that goes right back to the start with Unicron and Primus, spans the Great War, the Pax Cybertronia and the Beast Wars, then culminates with the change into TransTech (which we never saw because Beast Machines sucked too much [so I've worked the story so BM never happens])

But in my research, no official storyline details what happens between the signing of the Pax Cybertronia and the start of the Beast Wars, nor do they seem to cover the end of the Great War itself.

I realise that anything I write isn't Canon becuase it's not an officially licenced, Hasbro approved Transformers stuff. But neither was the 1st draft of the 1st episode of Transformers: Prime. Nor was the 1st draft of the 1st new movie. Only when it got the tick of approval did they become 'canon' and yet they started out not being so.

And it's not like these stories stuck to the original format of what 'canon' has seen before, they wrote their own universe.

I'm writing a story that rolls in and out of what we would consider G1/BW canon, yet that in itself is a very blurry thing.

Which G1? US TV series, US Comics, UK Comics, Japanese Comics?

Which BW? Just the TV series? Or do you include BWII and Neo? And Furman's Gathering and Ascending?

All of which contradict themselves and have no clear throughline to an understandable end, and yet they are held in reverence, in such high regard because they are 'canon'.

Why doesn't someone go back and do One. When I say One, I mean one story that makes sense from beginning to end.

Draw on whichever stories go together.

RID doesn't go with BW, just as BM doesn't go with ... anything.

But just make one work, instead of continually making up new stuff.

Thats what I'm trying to do anyway.

I have to kill Primus after the Beast Wars and replace him with the Vok to do so, but it works, just ask me But apparently Primus is already dead is one universe, but not in another, but I can't kill him because Unicron already did and I'd be contradicting canon, yet he's still alive so I can. Confused? Me too.

Get one Universe right, then you can go off and have all your weird offshoots. So long as there is one that makes sense from beginning to end, not countless unfinished stories.

I don't think I've made my point very well but I feel better to have got some of it off my chest.

Discuss.

[Sky Shadow]

I realise that anything I write isn't Canon becuase it's not an officially licenced, Hasbro approved Transformers stuff. But neither was the 1st draft of the 1st episode of Transformers: Prime. Nor was the 1st draft of the 1st new movie. Only when it got the tick of approval did they become 'canon' and yet they started out not being so.

This is the point. These things are canonical - even if they don't necessarily fit in with the rest of the canon - because they are officially sanctioned. That's what the word means - canon is determined by the church or an authority. Everything in the Bible is canonical, but that doesn't mean it all makes sense from beginning to end or bits of the Bible aren't contradicted by other bits - they are. Anything you come up with to do with Transformers that hasn't been dictated by Hasbro or its affiliates is fanfiction. It could theoretically become canonical, but it isn't at this time.

What you're talking about in terms of streaming clashes in various universes and franchise is about continuity, not canon. You can come up with your own personal continuity, but you can't have a personal canon.

[Verno]

Continuity, yes, I'd love one of them to work from start to finish.

[GoktimusPrime]

KA-BLAMMM!!!

Oh sorry, that was cannon.

please please, hold your applause... d:

But in my research, no official storyline details what happens between the signing of the Pax Cybertronia and the start of the Beast Wars, nor do they seem to cover the end of the Great War itself.

This is true. And I do wish someone would do something about this. I would have rather seen the IDW BW comics try to fill in this void rather than create out-of-continuity off-shoot stories like The Gathering and The Ascending. The BotCon comics do touch on this a little bit, but certainly not enough.

Many fans have tried to make their own continuity flow which connects everything together logically - but in order to do so you're going to have to chop and change official continuity, and thus in doing so creating your own continuity. In short, because official continuities are so complex, it's difficult to effectively unite them... even the idea of multiversal singularities is kinda stretching things. I mean, officially now the G1 cartoon has been retconned so that Primus exists and Unicron is a dark god - but uh... I totally don't get that vibe at all whenever I watch the G1 'toon! Especially whenever I watch "Call of the Primitives" and see that Unicron was built by a space-chimp.

[Verno]

Whats official continuity then? And how many are there?

What's it going to take to get Hasbro, or whatever powers that be, to make one that works?

It would be pretty cheap to do if you ask me, and a comic would be the best medium to use.

Start with Primus and Unicron backstory, move through the Great War and into G1 utilising anything that is condusive, then to G2 and any stuff that again adds to the storyline, end of the Great War, Pax Cybertronia, Beast Wars and forward.

Not difficult. Sure you won't please everyone, but to have atleast one that works, copy and pasting from official canon to make one continuity that works and the elements of its creation are citable are tracable.

Come on Hasbro. Put some pressure on the new boss of IDW to make it happen.

Or pay me to do it

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Oh good God...these two TFwiki articles seem to cover it about as well as anything.
What is Canon? http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Canon
Why doesn't it make sense/why doesn't Hasbro make a consistent canon/etc... http://tfwiki.net/wiki/To_sell_toys

My advice is just don't worry about it and either ignore it and/or make up your own story. The Odieverse makes perfect sense thanks to a decent uber-Macguffin/Deus ex Machina.

[Verno]

We can all have a dream. And as mine of Hard Hero coming back to life and finishing their line of 100% show accurate BW statues has had to have been abandoned, I have to have another dream.

[GoktimusPrime]

Whats official continuity then?

Any story created under licence from Hasbro and/or Takara(TOMY).

What's it going to take to get Hasbro, or whatever powers that be, to make one that works?

Highly unlikely. Hasbro seem more interested in just rebooting continuity ad nauseum now. (-_-) Their rationale is that it keeps continuity "fresh" by not allowing it to stagnate or linger too long.

I'd prefer a long-standing continuous story - but that does require more effort. In order to achieve this you would either need to:
+ Hire experienced TF writers who worked on previous TF canons, like Simon Furman. But see... Furman wrote the BW comics for IDW, and they complete screw around with BW continuity don't they...
+ Get new writers who either have an in-depth knowledge of TF lore, or are willing to acquire knowledge of TF lore. Larry DiTillio and Bob Forward had no knowledge of TFs when they were first hired to write Beast Wars, but they went and did their homework and made themselves knowledgeable.

It would be pretty cheap to do if you ask me, and a comic would be the best medium to use.

Yeah, the comic medium would work best because it's a helluva lot cheaper to do than a cartoon. And let's face it, Hasbro would only invest in a cartoon if it were to promote a current toy line.

Having said that, I think it would be possible to make a cartoon that both promotes recent/current toys and continues to build on previous existing canon if they invested in a Classicsverse cartoon!

...but I fear that Hasbro may have already missed that window of opportunity. But IDW could easily make a Classicsverse comic series that say, continues where G2 ended. Classicsverse figures could be used to complete the story of the Autobot-Decepticon war.

Come on Hasbro. Put some pressure on the new boss of IDW to make it happen.

Meh... Hasbro only puts pressure when it comes to promoting product. And these days the pressure is nothing like it used to be with Marvel. (-_-) I mean, the entire reason why the continuity headache that is the Earthforce Saga even exists is because Hasbro pushed Furman to write a story that promoted their Classic G1 reissues in 1990-91.

[griffin]

Whats official continuity then? And how many are there?

What's it going to take to get Hasbro, or whatever powers that be, to make one that works?

It would be pretty cheap to do if you ask me, and a comic would be the best medium to use.

Start with Primus and Unicron backstory, move through the Great War and into G1 utilising anything that is condusive, then to G2 and any stuff that again adds to the storyline, end of the Great War, Pax Cybertronia, Beast Wars and forward.

Not difficult. Sure you won't please everyone, but to have atleast one that works, copy and pasting from official canon to make one continuity that works and the elements of its creation are citable are tracable.

Come on Hasbro. Put some pressure on the new boss of IDW to make it happen.

Or pay me to do it

I think that's the point of this current continuity (that covers Prime, WFC, Exodus/Exiles)... a few years ago, the Hasbro people had a brainstorming session about the long term direction of the Transformers Lore. This gave birth to 'The 13', and the pre-history story WFC. Prime is the current era, and everything before that, and everything that follows, is likely to be more uniform, but will still have some rough spots due to independence of each project. (the rationale by Aaron Archer is that the different series pass the 'squint test' - by being close enough to be of the one continuity)

It's basically a reboot, as of last year (with WFC and the end of Animated), and from now on, it should all be part of the one continuity.

As for Canon - as others have said, it is anything Hasbro authorises their License-holders to produce (like comics, books, cartoons, computer games, and even the toy bios).

[LordCyrusOmega]

I had an interesting thought today about Beast Wars, Beast Machines, Transtech Continuity. Was going to start a new thread but it kinda ties in with what Verno's trying to do.
Megatron makes a statement to Primal in Beast Machines:
'The Beast Wars are over, You lost'
Which got me thinking. What if Beast Machines was a series in which the Decepticons won? Thus ushering in the Transtech era.
I think this may have been far better and opened the door for rather then the let down that was the end of Beast Machines. It would also have been good because the Autobots always win in the end.

I was actually talking to another Transfan recently who told me his idea for a TF series. I won't tell it as it's his story but it was good.

Kinda off topic