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Thread: 日本語会話: The Japanese Conversation Thread

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    ダサい is actually a pretty good translation, although it really depends on the context in which you're using the word "cheesy." Another translation might be わざとらしい, describing something that feels unnatural or forced (e.g. forced laughter). Another one is さむい which is often used to describe a comment so daggy that it makes you shudder; often used in response to 親父ギャグ ("dad jokes").
    I always thought ダサい was more like "daggy" uncool rather than "cheesy" uncool? I always have trouble with this type of Japanese that can be used in a few different situations

    I've always only used さむい in the context of jokes or comments about someone that are a little cold.
    I didn't realize it could be used for the more lighthearted "dad jokes" as well. I guess I still have a lot of learning to do.

    Thanks a lot for the help Gok

  2. #152
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    In certain context "cheesy" can be synonymous with "daggy" (in the sense of lameness).
    e.g. "You know what would look good on you? Me! I love daggy/cheesy pick up lines like these."
    So in that sense, you could also translate cheesy or daggy as カッコ悪い. さむい is used to describe jokes that are so bad that you just want that person to "STAHP!"

    This is often the tricky thing with translating, you're not just directly converting what words mean in one language to another, but rather what the intended meaning is. You don't translate words, you translate concepts, because purely translating words can mistranslate concepts, and that's how things get lost in translation. This is why machine translators like Google Translate just don't work (beyond very basic words and phrases).

    For example, I cannot directly translate "Adventure Time" to Latin, because there is no Latin word for "adventure" (the Romans had no concept of this), so I think the nearest approximation might be audacem temporalis ("Daring Time"). It's not a direct translation but attempts to convey the intended meaning of the original English title. I checked Wikipedia and they don't even have a page for Adventure Time in Latin! I was curious to see how they translated the title. And yes, there are Wikipedia pages in Latin. Here's the Latin Wikipedia page on Japanese.

  3. #153
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    Ah, gottcha! That actually helps my understanding a lot. Thanks man

    And here I was thinking my Japanese was improving. I would love to do a night or TAFE course because I really want to pick up my Japanese skill, but there's just nothing on offer here in my town unfortunately

  4. #154
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    Destoroyah

    How does one pronounce this?

  5. #155
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    Follow this link and click on the "Listen" icon (looks like a speaker) to hear the pronunciation.

  6. #156
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    Why are Japanese devs at games conferences referred to as last name followed by San, which as I understand is like saying Mr Spencer or Mr House. Kojima San or Inafune San for example. Do they think they are above the rest of the industry and should be refereed to like someone special or what?
    I have a list of all G1 characters that have been released in CHUG form. You can find it here. Please feel free to let me know if I got anything wrong so I can fix it.

  7. #157
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    In Japanese culture it's generally considered rude to refer to people by their given names, thus in most typical contexts, it is considered more respectful and polite to refer to people by their surnames. In Australia we tend to reserve this level of deference for people in certain positions, such as clients, politicians, teachers, doctors etc., but in Japan this level of respect is affording to virtually everyone except for family members and close friends.

    Japanese society is a vertical hierarchy and it is extremely important to show the correct level of respect, not only in the way that you address someone, but also in the way that you speak to someone. In English we have different registers that we use to increase or decrease our level of linguistic formality, but Japanese goes to a whole different level with different honorific forms of speech.
    e.g.: Here are different ways of saying, "I eat sushi" in Japanese with varying levels of politeness.
    * 寿司くう (sushi kuu) ←crude
    * 寿司を食べる (sushi o taberu) ←casual
    * 御寿司を食べる (osushi o taberu) ←honorific casual
    * 御寿司を頂く (osushi o itadaku) ←casual humble
    * 御寿司を召し上がる (osushi o meshiagaru) ←casual respectful
    * 寿司を食べます (sushi o tabemasu) ←polite
    * 御寿司を食べます (osushi o tabemasu) ←honorific polite
    * 御寿司を食べられます (osushi o taberaremasu) ←formal
    * 御寿司を頂きます (osushi o itadakimasu) ←formal humble
    * 御寿司をお食べになります(osushi o otabeninarimasu) ←formal polite
    * 御寿司を召し上がります (osushi o meshiagarimasu) ←polite respectful
    * 御寿司を御召し上がりになります (osushi o omeshininarimasu) ←honorific polite respectful
    * 御寿司を御召しになって頂きます (osushi o omeshininatte itadakimasu) ←honorific humble respectful

    Placing "san" after someone's name can be used in both casual and polite forms, so it's actually not that honorific as some other name suffixes. Other honorific titles include:
    + ちゃん (chan) = used to address someone as a term of endearment. This is a variant of "san" only with the "s" replaced with "ch" to mimic Japanese baby talk. e.g. 赤ちゃん (akachan) = baby
    + 君 (kun) = used to address subordinates or to boys or to male friends. Colloquially used to address close female friends (it's less diminutive than "chan"). e.g. in Dragonball, Gokuu is often called 孫君 (Son-kun) by his friends.
    + 様 (sama) = Lord/lady. e.g. お客様 (okyaku-sama) = Lord/lady customer, 神様 (kami-sama) = Lord God etc.
    + 先輩 (senpai) = used to refer to or address a senior colleague or student (if you're a school student). Notice me.
    + 先生 (sensei) = master. Used to refer to or address authority figures such as teachers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, head chefs etc., as well as anyone who is accomplished in their field such as acclaimed writers, musicians, artists etc.
    + 博士 (hakase) = doctor, as in a professor and/or person who's been awarded a PhD. e.g. ホーキング博士 (hookingu-hakase) = Dr. Hawking
    + 氏 (shi) = used in very formal speech or when writing to someone you don't know very well, like when addressing people on the internet. e.g. Δプライム氏 (Δpuraimu-shi) = DELTAprime
    + 殿 (tono) = same meaning as "sama," although not quite as honorific. Similar to saying, "Milord" or "Milady." e.g. 薫殿 (Kaoru-dono) = "Milady Kaoru"
    + 閣下 (kakka) = Your Excellency (yes, I know that every Italian speaker is now rofling at this )
    etc. etc. etc.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    P.S.: It took me a couple of minutes to work out what the hell you meant by "devs."

  8. #158
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    (French people are rofling pretty hard at the last one too)

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    In Japanese culture it's generally considered rude to refer to people by their given names, thus in most typical contexts, it is considered more respectful and polite to refer to people by their surnames. In Australia we tend to reserve this level of deference for people in certain positions, such as clients, politicians, teachers, doctors etc., but in Japan this level of respect is affording to virtually everyone except for family members and close friends.

    Japanese society is a vertical hierarchy and it is extremely important to show the correct level of respect, not only in the way that you address someone, but also in the way that you speak to someone. In English we have different registers that we use to increase or decrease our level of linguistic formality, but Japanese goes to a whole different level with different honorific forms of speech.
    e.g.: Here are different ways of saying, "I eat sushi" in Japanese with varying levels of politeness.
    * 寿司くう (sushi kuu) ←crude
    * 寿司を食べる (sushi o taberu) ←casual
    * 御寿司を食べる (osushi o taberu) ←honorific casual
    * 御寿司を頂く (osushi o itadaku) ←casual humble
    * 御寿司を召し上がる (osushi o meshiagaru) ←casual respectful
    * 寿司を食べます (sushi o tabemasu) ←polite
    * 御寿司を食べます (osushi o tabemasu) ←honorific polite
    * 御寿司を食べられます (osushi o taberaremasu) ←formal
    * 御寿司を頂きます (osushi o itadakimasu) ←formal humble
    * 御寿司をお食べになります(osushi o otabeninarimasu) ←formal polite
    * 御寿司を召し上がります (osushi o meshiagarimasu) ←polite respectful
    * 御寿司を御召し上がりになります (osushi o omeshininarimasu) ←honorific polite respectful
    * 御寿司を御召しになって頂きます (osushi o omeshininatte itadakimasu) ←honorific humble respectful

    Placing "san" after someone's name can be used in both casual and polite forms, so it's actually not that honorific as some other name suffixes. Other honorific titles include:
    + ちゃん (chan) = used to address someone as a term of endearment. This is a variant of "san" only with the "s" replaced with "ch" to mimic Japanese baby talk. e.g. 赤ちゃん (akachan) = baby
    + 君 (kun) = used to address subordinates or to boys or to male friends. Colloquially used to address close female friends (it's less diminutive than "chan"). e.g. in Dragonball, Gokuu is often called 孫君 (Son-kun) by his friends.
    + 様 (sama) = Lord/lady. e.g. お客様 (okyaku-sama) = Lord/lady customer, 神様 (kami-sama) = Lord God etc.
    + 先輩 (senpai) = used to refer to or address a senior colleague or student (if you're a school student). Notice me.
    + 先生 (sensei) = master. Used to refer to or address authority figures such as teachers, doctors, lawyers, politicians, head chefs etc., as well as anyone who is accomplished in their field such as acclaimed writers, musicians, artists etc.
    + 博士 (hakase) = doctor, as in a professor and/or person who's been awarded a PhD. e.g. ホーキング博士 (hookingu-hakase) = Dr. Hawking
    + 氏 (shi) = used in very formal speech or when writing to someone you don't know very well, like when addressing people on the internet. e.g. Δプライム氏 (Δpuraimu-shi) = DELTAprime
    + 殿 (tono) = same meaning as "sama," although not quite as honorific. Similar to saying, "Milord" or "Milady." e.g. 薫殿 (Kaoru-dono) = "Milady Kaoru"
    + 閣下 (kakka) = Your Excellency (yes, I know that every Italian speaker is now rofling at this )
    etc. etc. etc.

    -------------------------------------------------------------
    P.S.: It took me a couple of minutes to work out what the hell you meant by "devs."
    Thanks Gok. Maybe I should avoid taking a trip to Japan ever, I hate being called Mr Kearney and Kearney-san sounds even more formal to me.
    I have a list of all G1 characters that have been released in CHUG form. You can find it here. Please feel free to let me know if I got anything wrong so I can fix it.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bato View Post
    (French people are rofling pretty hard at the last one too)
    Meerrr--credi!
    Quote Originally Posted by DELTAprime View Post
    Thanks Gok. Maybe I should avoid taking a trip to Japan ever, I hate being called Mr Kearney and Kearney-san sounds even more formal to me.
    Or you could just learn to say 「デルタと呼んでください」("Please call me Delta.")
    But yeah, by default they will address you buy surname unless you say otherwise, but that's the same with being in any foreign culture; people will go with the cultural default unless you say otherwise.

    And at least Japan is reasonably consistent in that regard. In Australia we have some people who insist on being called by their surname while others prefer to be called by their given name, which is why people in customer care will often say, "Do you mind if I call you <given.name>?" before proceeding with the service. I've often heard Japanese people talk about how they find this lack of consistency confusing as they don't want to offend or upset anyone. I often just tell them to directly ask any new person that they meet as to how they prefer to be addressed, but Japanese people are generally uncomfortable with being so direct and forward (as it's considered rude), so it's not easy for them. Japanese people will always default to being too polite rather than not polite enough, as you're less likely to offend someone by being too polite.

    e.g. If I walked into a doctor's office, and let's say his name is John Smith. If I addressed him as "Dr. Smith," he might say, "Please, just call me John," and then I'd just call him "John" from then on. But if I call him "John" straight off the cuff and he then goes, "That's Dr. Smith," then I've just offended him and there are awkward feelings all round.

    This scene from Star Wars A New Hope demonstrates this kind of social faux pas:
    "Well, if there's a bright centre to the universe, you're on the planet that it's farthest from."
    "I see, sir."
    "Uh, you can call me Luke."
    "I see, sir Luke."

    (laughing) "Just Luke."

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