Are we becoming jaded or more discerning as Transformer fans?

[BigTransformerTrev]

Are we becoming jaded or simply more discerning as Transformer fans?

As someone who tries to examine their own behaviour from time to time, I noticed a while back that I was doing a lot of whinging about the current state of Transformers. I was complaining to my wife about how I couldn’t find any of the figures I wanted in the stores, complaining online about possible problems with the upcoming movie and making derisive comments in toy reviews about either figures I have that were not perfect in some respect, or figures that I had decided to bypass altogether.

Then I thought about how I was being and tried to put things in perspective. I went and looked at the masses of toy crates I have full of my nearly 1400 strong collection, the boxes of comics, the bookshelf full of TF novels and art books, the DVD rack full of both individual DVD’s and Box Sets, the shelf above my computer covered in TF busts and I thought ‘What the hell am I whinging about – look how damn good I have it!’

I then went online on several websites and had a look at what others were saying. It turned out that perhaps the majority of TF fans on these sites were saying similar things to me about the movies, cartoons, comics, toylines etc. And it made me think ‘Are we becoming jaded and ungrateful as a fanbase? Or are we simply more discerning consumers of products and patrons of the franchise?’

As a teacher I have the opportunity to talk to many 5 to 18 year olds, and they all know that Mad Mr Hopkins is a Transformers nut. So I get a chance to talk to lots of different age groups about my passion. Pretty much everyone under 18 I chat to LOVES the three live action movies and really enjoy the new cartoons that have come out. I have nieces who are in their 20’s and married and their husbands, who are somewhat bemused by their new mad uncles hobby, remember more about the likes of Armada than Beast Wars, and had a passing interest in the movies but couldn’t tell you anything about them. This got me thinking, 'Is our attitude to the current state of Transformers affected by our age – are the G1 fans jaded while the Prime fans jubilant?

So to test the theory, I created a poll on Ozformers in regards to users age. I thought this would give me a good indication of the average ages of people that were passionate enough about the brand to actually join a forum and discuss Transformers.

60% of the responders indicated they were in their 30’s, the numbers slightly higher in the 35-40 year old range. Therefore we can make the assumption that these people were there right at the beginning of the 30 year saga of the Transformers. They have seen Transformers in all their iterations throughout the years. Over 30% of the total responders indicated that they were in their 20’s – therefore have been there for the vast majority of the TF saga, and have had ample time to be exposed to that which came before (G1 episodes rerun as G2 cartoons in the 90’s, Beast Wars in the 90’s etc).

Working on the assumption that the people who took the time to vote in the poll are also the people who enjoy leaving comments in threads, we can deduce that a lot of the comments left are from seasoned TF fans. Therefore, are these fans when they leave negative comments about the movies, toys etc jaded? Certainly a lot of the toys that cop a lot of flak are a million miles ahead of where the G1 toys were. Or are these people simply discerning? That having seen it all they know what constitutes a good plot, a quality toy and so on. So does age and experience colour our perceptions of where the brand is headed? The evidence would seem to suggest so.


Let’s have a look at three of the main facets of Transformers that seem to cause contention.

TOYS
Of course as the technology progresses perhaps one should expect a higher level of quality and sophistication in their figures. But in regards to intricacy, Transformers certainly seem to go up and down in regards to what the main line is offering. G1 & G2 were fairly simplistic (fun, but simplistic). RID – well Sideburn from 2001 STILL gives me headaches! Armada Megatron and the Seekers – fairly simple. Mirage from Energon – damn hard and annoying! A lot of people argue that the current Generations toys have gotten the mix fairly right – you need to employ your brain but don’t have to spend half an hour to change your toys mode. Even with the movie toys there is a marked difference from movie to movie – Leader Sentinel Prime took a great deal of time to change, but now the announcement with the AoE toys is that they are going back to a more simplistic transformation scheme in order to make them more accessible to everyone. Is this a step forward or back in toy technology? Are the fans happy or bitter about this change? Opinions vary.


Movies
We’ve been fortunate enough to have 3 live-action Transformer movies come out so far. We’ve gotten to see:

*Optimus Prime as a big truck with trailer voiced by Peter Cullen dash into battle!
*Starscream as an F22 act the toady to Megatron and take command as soon as Megatron dies.
*Soundwave voiced by Frank Welker unleash Ravage and Laserbeak
*The Constructicons form Devestator and destroy a pyramid!
*Jetfire change his allegiance from Decepticon to Autobot.
*The Wreckers go into battle
*Cybertron transported to Earth via a massive space bridge by the Decepticons so they can use the human race as slaves just like season one of G1!

But what do we talk actually about?
*Skids and Mudflap – awful racist characters
*Colour schemes all wrong
*Names used randomly
*Little plot
*Even less characterization
*Bumbleebee not being able to talk
*Irritating humans

The upcoming movie
(I believe what I am about to mention is already widely known but if it’s still considered a spoiler please feel free section-mods to white it out).
We have Grimlock appearing on the big screen! Whoever would have thought 10 years ago that this would ever happen for us?!?! A. LIVE. ACTION. GRIMLOCK. IN. A MOVIE! We should all be on our knee’s thanking Primus that such a thing is going to happen!

But the comments that have been bandied around the boards are often:
*Optimus is going to ride Grimlock? Lame!
*Why is he so huge and with horns? He’s supposed to be a T-Rex, not a giant fricken dragon!
*His robot mode silhouette makes him look like he’s wearing court-jester shoes!

Once again, discerning viewers or nit-pickers?


Hasbro
Many of us have become frustrated and not understand the reasons behind some of Hasbro’s decisions with our beloved brand, despite:

*Continued expansion of the brand. In the 80’s we had G1. In the 90's we had G2 & BW. Then from the 00's onwards we have had BM, RID, Armada, Energon, Cybertron, Animated, Prime, Rescue Bots, a bunch of video games, tons of comics and 3 live action flicks! All with associated toy lines!
*Dedication to the brand: Millions upon millions have been spent upon the promotion of Transformers to the point that in most of the western world Transformers is a name and brand that would be recognized in most households. It has risen from relative obscurity in the early 90’s to something that can be recognized across multiple generations and social classes.
*Toylines that pay homage to the origins of the Transformers. These include Kre-O, Titanium, Attactix, Universe, Classics, Generations, Mighty Muggs, Constructbots, Robot Heroes, HOC, Bot Shots etc. For those of us that love G1, some of us now have multiple versions of classic G1 characters, as well as seeing those characters be reinvented in new and interesting ways in other TF universes (everyone from Ratchet to Blitzwing).


So perhaps we should be grateful to Hasbro for all they have done and all they provide us with. But again, what do many of us discuss?

*Character names used willy-nilly
*Overstocking of particular waves of toys
*Overuse of particular characters (Bbee & Optimus) whilst other characters get nary a figure (we still wait to see with baited breath what the Generations Arcee will look like)
*A distinct lack of global releases of popular toylines (many Generations not reaching Australia)




So, consider the following questions:

What is your current opinion of the current state of Transformers in all its myriad forms?

What do you believe has influenced your current opinion of the Transformers brand? (age, experience etc)

Do you believe that either you yourself, or the fanbase taken as a whole, has become somewhat ungrateful and jaded, unable to appreciate just how great things have become for TF fans? Or do you believe that it is simply as the brand has evolved, the fanbase and its expectations have evolved, and after 30 years we should expect a higher level of product - be that toy or media - as a natural matter of course?



Discuss

[GoktimusPrime]

I think the truth is "a bit of both." We have become both more discerning and in some ways more jaded than we were as kids. And why should we not? We're not children any more. But this doesn't mean that our opinions about toys shouldn't matter any more either.

I think what's happened is:

a) We've become a lot more experienced. In say, 1990, we only had 6 years' worth of Transformers knowledge and experience. Now we have thirty years of TF knowledge and experience. We're by no means "Noobs" when it comes to all things Transformers.

b) Adults are fully rational agents. We are more critical and evaluative thinkers than we were as children. Sure, we were less critical and more accepting of our toys when we were kids, but we were also a lot less critical and more accepting of a whole lot of other things like society, politics and the world around us in general. We were blissfully ignorant of many, many things. Children are quasi rational agents. This is why they're not allowed to vote, drive, consume alcohol, sign legal contracts, marry, purchase vehicles or real estate, join the military, leave school, live on their own etc. As a child, I was never aware of the "hidden racism" in some Transformers stories (i.e. portraying goodness and evil as being 'racial' characteristics of being Autobots & Decepticons, as well as the whole blue/red eye colour physical racial trait) -- it's a far cry from say the IDW comics which doesn't necessarily paint the Transformers as good or evil... they simply make decisions that may be deemed as good or bad depending on who's looking at it (or from the POV of neutralists like Metalhawk, equally bad). There are noble Decepticons (e.g. Cyclonus and now Megatron), as well as ethically questionable Autobots (e.g. Prowl, Whirl etc.). The G1 Marvel Comics gave us similar characters too (e.g. Flame, Scorponok), and even the G1 cartoon gave us morally dubious characters in Season 3, such as Blitzwing, Octane and arguably Sandstorm.

A good story is one that both children and adults enjoy, often for different reasons.
e.g.
+ The Simpsons. Kids quote things like, "D'oh!' "Aye carumba!" and "Eat my shorts!" Adults quote things like, "Ich bin ein Springfielder."
+ When I was a kid, I loved Star Wars because of the robots and spaceships and lasers etc., I still love these things, but as I got older I came to fall in love with the story and characters. As a young child my favourite Star Wars character was R5-D4. That's right, the Astromech droid with a bad motivator. Just because I thought he was a really cool looking robot.
+ Beast Wars: kids would love it because of the fun and action -- I was a uni student when it came out, but I loved it because of the characters, stories and the nerd in me absolutely loved the world building and how it expanded and enhanced G1/G2 lore!
+ Monty Python. Kids who watch it like the sheer silliness of many of their gags, but adults also like a lot of the more mature commentary that they make. e.g. the scene from Holy Grail where a woman is accused of witchcraft and flimsy pseudo-evidence is used to prove her guilt. Kids laugh at the silliness of the whole process, but adults can see that it's a metaphor for the way that some people will adjust facts to fit conclusions, rather than adjusting conclusions to fit facts (e.g. Holocaust deniers, claims that immunisations cause autism etc.).
"So, if she weighs the same as a duck..."

And toys work similarly. A good toy is one that you love as a child and continue to love and appreciate as an adult. Take the original G1 Soundwave toy, to this day I still think it's an absolute marvel of a toy. I love the way that it transforms from a compact life size microcassette player to an imposing looking robot. I love how the batteries can be removed from the battery compartment and become the weapons, and I love little details like a movable volume control dial, movable side-switch tab, pressable buttons, working eject button, and the toy can hold microcassette tapes which also transform into robots! Except for the missiles, every part of the toy is self-contained. It is a toy that I still absolutely love to bits even 30 years later, every much as I did back in the 80s. Masterpiece Soundwave is - IMHO - fundamentally fairly similar to G1 Soundwave, and I think that's a testament to just how well made the original toy was made.

On the other end of the spectrum are Firecons. These are toys that I liked to some degree as a kid. It shot sparks! That made them really cool as fire-breathing monsters. And yeah, we all laughed at the "turn around" transformations that reminded us of Monkey Magic. In fact, we sometimes voiced the Firecons with that cheesy Asian-dub accent that they used in Monkey. "Sparkstalker, you swine!" But the toys really haven't aged as well, and I certainly don't feel the love for them now as I did back in 1988.

So IMHO the key to a good franchise -- toys, movies, comics, cartoons etc., is the test of time. Are kids going to continue loving them as they get older, or are they more likely to lose interest and "grow out" of them? Many of us were hooked onto Transformers during G1 and have never let go for 30 years. I wonder how many kids are similarly hooked by say Bayverse and becoming lifelong fans... fans of tomorrow, not just fans for today. Yeah sure, kids today may be enthralled by the visual spectacle and excitement of the Bay films, and I agree that they are very visually exciting... but will they continue to be as equally or increasingly engaged as they get older? When I was a kid, I watched the original Star Wars trilogy countless times. As I got older I found myself loving those movies more and more because the stories started to make more sense to me and I was able to engage with the characters, not just the visual spectacle (which still also thrills me too). Visual effects are just a story telling tool, at the end of the day the characters and story are the "meat" that really makes you a long term fan.

Likewise with toys, basic engineering and gimmicks can engage you in the short term, but it's the better made toys that can keep you engaged forever. Many of us still love the original Constructicons... I wonder how many kids who played with Combiner Class ROTF Devastator will continue to increasingly love and play with that toy well into their adolescent and adult years.

------------------------------------

P.S.: I think another thing we're more acutely aware of now that we weren't as much as kids is value for money. Children can be more forgiving of a poor toy or badly written movie because they had the toy or ticket purchased for them by someone else (e.g. parent). It's different when you're paying for these things from money that you've earned yourself.

[5FDP]

IMHO we tend to judge Hasbro unfairly and seem to forget that their key market is children and making toys. Adult logic should not apply. We're fortunate that from time to time they cater toward the adult collector.

[Ravagecat]

What is your current opinion of the current state of Transformers in all its myriad forms?

My opinion is that its at an all time high with some great products available Including Master Piece, Generations and Kreon Mini figures and combiners. There is also a reasonable amount of decent fan fiction floating about in the form of IDW comics and with a 4th motion film coming out in June what more could we want??

What do you believe has influenced your current opinion of the Transformers brand? (age, experience etc)

Age and experience would be my two biggest contributors to my opinion. I have been collecting since I was 9/10 years old (when the toyline first came out) and own most of every US/AUS iteration/incarnation of the brand so have been riding the roller coaster of successes and failures along the way for the whole 30 years. IMO The Toys have definitely evolved through out the years, some changes for the better (the introduction of the ball joint in G2 laser rods to improve possibility) and some not so good (the techno organic look of Beast machines). More recently I'm happy for Hasbro to take a step back with some of the complexity built into the more recent TF designs but hate the enlarge legend size idea.

Do you believe that either you yourself, or the fanbase taken as a whole, has become somewhat ungrateful and jaded, unable to appreciate just how great things have become for TF fans? Or do you believe that it is simply as the brand has evolved, the fanbase and its expectations have evolved, and after 30 years we should expect a higher level of product - be that toy or media - as a natural matter of course?

As an Australian Collector I would say I've had my share of disappointments with the brand but am by no means ungrateful of jaded. I accept that the brand will evolve and that some ideas work great and others not so great as long as Hasbro/Takara learn from their mistakes. They have tried a myriad of ideas from giving them heads and guns that can transform, making them smaller (micro masters) to making them more pose able (late G2/beast wars), adding shiny metal, giving them minicons, ability to powerlink, making them look like cartoons, increasing the complexity, to combining two types of plastic colours all to keep fans interested and the brand fresh and I'm grateful for this. My disappointment is not directed at what's being produced or the quality of the toys etc. (for the most part there are some really interesting and fun transformers available) but more at the lack of commitment by Hasbro and Australian retailers to stock all currently available Transformers here on Aussie shelves. Generations is a classic example of this lack of commitment. Retailers just want to make money so seem to care less about what Transformers are on the shelves as long as they sell and Hasbro seems happy to clog our shelves with so much stock from the first wave or two that we rarely or never see anything beyond these initial waves. Retailers then complain about sales being down due on to online shopping Thank god for online retailers IMO as I can actually look past my disappointments and get some satisfaction in knowing that these toys are not completely out of reach.

[Skullcruncher]

IMHO we tend to judge Hasbro unfairly and seem to forget that their key market is children and making toys. Adult logic should not apply. We're fortunate that from time to time they cater toward the adult collector.

Pretty much this, the older (more experienced) we get, the more harsh we tend to judge them - at the same time we are getting further away from their main target audience. Plus with more life experience the less 'real disappointment' older fans should feel unless they haven't had much experience of life.

As a child, I was never aware of the "hidden racism" in some Transformers stories (i.e. portraying goodness and evil as being 'racial' characteristics of being Autobots & Decepticons, as well as the whole blue/red eye colour physical racial trait)

Wow I've never even thought of, read or seen anyone mention there was some racial characteristics behind transformers eye colour before. This is exactly why I have given up on the general fandom and couldn't care less if transformers faded into oblivion.

[Lint]

What is your current opinion of the current state of Transformers in all its myriad forms?

I think the identity of the brand is healthy thanks to the films and tv shows. Market awareness would be at an all time high, but my opinion is that the 'general retail' toylines seem to gravitate toward being exploitative rather than contributive to the health and identity of the brand. I appreciate what TT and Hasbro Asia are doing in the Masterpiece/Classicsverse space even if their pricing is a little predatory.

What do you believe has influenced your current opinion of the Transformers brand? (age, experience etc)

I don't know how to answer this question... everything?

Do you believe that either you yourself, or the fanbase taken as a whole, has become somewhat ungrateful and jaded, unable to appreciate just how great things have become for TF fans? Or do you believe that it is simply as the brand has evolved, the fanbase and its expectations have evolved, and after 30 years we should expect a higher level of product - be that toy or media - as a natural matter of course?

I think that we should not label all fans that are critical of Hasbro/Toys as jaded or ungrateful as at the end of the day, even if we are adults, we are all Hasbro customers too.

While I do recognise that Hasbro have done a lot of great things for the Transformers brand that we can be thankful for, I don't think we have to prostrate ourselves before them whenever they throw us fans a bone. I also don't think it is a crime for us to demand that they do things BETTER, especially when we're buying the stuff.

[Verno]

I'm jaded as all hell, but then my relationship to the franchise for the past 15 years has been that of a spectator for the most part.

As a spectator (going so far as to call myself an outsider), I spend a lot of my time reading and listening to the thoughts of others, and there is no doubting the negative vibe/vein that runs through the fandom as a whole. I'm as guilty of the next person when it comes to having a whinge about something from time to time.

An example of my whnging would be about the paint job on Hasbro's 2006 Beast Wars 10th Anniversary Dinobot. To this very day, I cannot understand how such a pathetic rendering of that figure was released to the market, baring absolutely no resemblance to the CGI model's colour scheme.

But whinging such as this is entirely justified. Hasbro deserves a kick in the ass in such instances -- when they get something so very simple so very, very wrong.

The overuse/repeated use of characters like Optimus Prime and Bumblebee is another frustration that even fans of the movies would have to admit.

Hasbro do occasionally get things right, and must be applauded for that. Generations Rhinox, Waspinator and Rattrap look absolutely sublime. I can only say look however because Hasbro have screwed up their own production of the Waspinator figure, meaning I'm yet to enjoy any of them. Also, the figures aren't stocked by stores here in Australia. It's a total s#!t storm for a casual fan like myself.

But I think the biggest frustration of the franchise as a whole (to me) is the fact that Transformers is Optimus Prime vs Megatron. Every year, every series, every line, it's the same. Even Beast Wars, which was hailed as a new beginning, was led by an Optimus and a Megatron.

I wouldn't want the Transformers franchise to survive another 30 years if it's just going to be those two again and again. Give us some new blood.

[Trent]

But I think the biggest frustration of the franchise as a whole (to me) is the fact that Transformers is Optimus Prime vs Megatron. Every year, every series, every line, it's the same. Even Beast Wars, which was hailed as a new beginning, was led by an Optimus and a Megatron.

I wouldn't want the Transformers franchise to survive another 30 years if it's just going to be those two again and again. Give us some new blood.

I agree with the whole Optimus/Megatron thing. It's getting old. That's why I'm such a fan of Dai Atlas. Not only is he not a Prime, he kicks arse! He is the way a leader of a intergalactic civil war needs to be to win.

[Verno]

I agree with the whole Optimus/Megatron thing. It's getting old. That's why I'm such a fan of Dai Atlas. Not only is he not a Prime, he kicks arse! He is the way a leader of a intergalactic civil war needs to be to win.

It almost seems like Windblade is the first new character in a decade. We have a huge number of established characters, so there seems to be a trepidation to break new ground. Hasbro were so scared of this that they made the public vote on who the new character would be, just so they had some relation to her before she debuted. But the most interesting part is that it wasn't to feature in the main TF property at the time (TF: Prime) but delayed to appear in the comics. Do they not trust the fans?

[Trent]

Do they not trust the fans?

The fandom tried to get Erector into the TF hall of fame. I think it's safe to say that Hasbro doesn't trust us