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  #81  
Old 7th January 2018, 08:59 PM
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Yeah... Star Wars has a habit of not fleshing out their villains on-screen, especially if they are only in one Movie. (maybe it was the inspiration for Michael Bay's work on Transformers )

Maul showed up as the big bad guy for the new/prequel Trilogy, and after 3 or 4 lines, he was killed off, without knowing anything about who he was.
Then again, we didn't really know much about Darth Vader from his first movie either (Ep4). It was in ESB that we learnt who he was to Luke, and that he was Obi Wan's student, and I think even his real name.
As Goktimus noted earlier, we we didn't know anything about the Emperor either after the original Trilogy... or that there was an Emperor until ESB (it seemed like the military was in charge during Ep4, and to me, Vader looked more like a non-ranking militia or bounty hunter).
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  #82  
Old 7th January 2018, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by griffin View Post
Yeah... Star Wars has a habit of not fleshing out their villains on-screen, especially if they are only in one Movie. (maybe it was the inspiration for Michael Bay's work on Transformers )

Maul showed up as the big bad guy for the new/prequel Trilogy, and after 3 or 4 lines, he was killed off, without knowing anything about who he was.
Then again, we didn't really know much about Darth Vader from his first movie either (Ep4). It was in ESB that we learnt who he was to Luke, and that he was Obi Wan's student, and I think even his real name.
As Goktimus noted earlier, we we didn't know anything about the Emperor either after the original Trilogy... or that there was an Emperor until ESB (it seemed like the military was in charge during Ep4, and to me, Vader looked more like a non-ranking militia or bounty hunter).
The Emperor was mentioned once in Episode 4 by Tarkin. But I agree with Gok, we knew nothing about so many characters throughout Star Wars history but with Snoke it's suddenly the worst thing ever.

Boba Fett for example. What did he ever do to deserve the following and status he has? Bugger all.
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  #83  
Old 8th January 2018, 08:53 AM
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I think the issue is that is missing a timeline of how FO and Snoke comes into power, so killing Snoke off pretty much is in your face "you dont need to know anymore". Which was one of the main questions in TFA.

In fact, the three main questions is a smack on the face for Star Wars fandom, as 1. Who is Rey > You dont need to know she is nobody
2. Who is snoke . You dont need to know either he is dead. lol
3. What is Luke's future > dah...all done mate

So basically everything build up in TFA is almost demolished, hence the excitement is sort of cut off. While I am no a crazy follower of this entire Star Wars thingy, I have followed some for these guys who do heaps of work before the last Jedi which were so much efforts on these three questions only to be shot down immediately after the Last Jedi was shown. Its almost like all that effort went down the drain. and Yes Rian J was very aware of these theories and for him, his priority was HIS version was no one had guessed and NOT whether it was going to be any good.

I won't be surprise that there is a hidden Sith you guys have not discovered and they do another insert > "surprise!" and you find Kylo and Rey struggle to beat him, who knows? Kylo isn't exactly very strong. Rey has the books so she probably could learn more than Kylo Ren.

I am curious, the part that General Hux entered the Throne room and saw Snoke dead, did anyone catch EXACTLY what his intent (probably wanting to kill Kylo Ren) or WEAPON was concealed on his side that he was about to pull out? A gun or Lightsaber?
Just before Kylo Ren gained conscious.
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  #84  
Old 8th January 2018, 12:32 PM
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Hux is a weak willed punk, the books released thus far depict him as more or less incompetent but has a certain underling perform assassinations of his political and power rivals for him to him elevate through the ranks.

He gained his position from the work of his father, nothing from his own power or abilities. Id imagine t was a standard first order officers blaster he was reaching for.
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  #85  
Old 8th January 2018, 02:43 PM
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I think Goks point is when the Phantom Menace came out we knew nothing about him and it has only been the clone wars, books and other media that have fleshed him out ( pun intended).
Fair enough, I certainly agree with that point.
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  #86  
Old 8th January 2018, 03:01 PM
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Finally saw it last night. I have many questions which I can see many people having same gripes as me. Who is Rey, who was Snoke, how did the first order get so powerful, that sort of thing. My main thing now is how are they going to go forward without Carrie Fisher? My gf and me came up with the theory Luke will come back as a Force ghost to continue to guide Rey. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has come up with that theory. I guess all we can do now is wait another 2 years. And as much as I love Star Wars, this IMO was not the best one. My fav still is ROTS followed by ROTJ. Just my opinion.
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  #87  
Old 8th January 2018, 03:21 PM
drifand drifand is offline
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Originally Posted by CHILENO20 View Post
Finally saw it last night. I have many questions which I can see many people having same gripes as me. Who is Rey, who was Snoke, how did the first order get so powerful, that sort of thing. My main thing now is how are they going to go forward without Carrie Fisher? My gf and me came up with the theory Luke will come back as a Force ghost to continue to guide Rey. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has come up with that theory. I guess all we can do now is wait another 2 years. And as much as I love Star Wars, this IMO was not the best one. My fav still is ROTS followed by ROTJ. Just my opinion.
Yup, a lot of people already threw in the force ghost thingy. But be prepared for budget version, and what I meant here is they don't want to pay Mark in the next flim and they just make Rey study the books with the help of Leia < I know they probably get some actress to fill in.

The funny thing is Hux is actually controlling the FO fleet, and is only because Kylo Ren has the force to threaten him, he is unable to lead on.

By story line, I just like 4-6 and thats it. 1-3 is spoiled by the technology of CGI over done and Jaja binks.

TFA onwards, I try not to judge, I think it is like forget the past and move forward new chapter.

Like said there are things I like in the Last Jedi but there are a lot of plot holes. I honestly think the story could stay the same but be told in a very more entertaining manner. how it goes on from here will be very important, as the film did angered a lot of hardcore fans I felt.

End of the day, Disney sees it as a business, they weigh up whether the new generation of followers and whatever loyalty fans likes it vs Star War fans who complaints about what has happened in the Last Jedi.

A lot of people had regarded Luke as their savior and to have him killed in this episode has really went to extremes of boycotting the next film.

When I watch the latest Star Trek movies I can appreciate JJ's direction on how he takes the story from the past to the new and go from there.

Star Wars TFA and Last Jedi had a good entry and now and shaky middle story. I hope it ends on a good note.
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  #88  
Old 8th January 2018, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHILENO20 View Post
Finally saw it last night. I have many questions which I can see many people having same gripes as me. Who is Rey, who was Snoke, how did the first order get so powerful, that sort of thing. My main thing now is how are they going to go forward without Carrie Fisher? My gf and me came up with the theory Luke will come back as a Force ghost to continue to guide Rey. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has come up with that theory. I guess all we can do now is wait another 2 years. And as much as I love Star Wars, this IMO was not the best one. My fav still is ROTS followed by ROTJ. Just my opinion.
I don't have a problem with him returning as a jedi ghost (I don't know why people do have an issue with it), and I think they will need to have him back in some significant way, now that Carrie Fisher is gone... otherwise they have killed off all the main Original Trilogy (organic) people.
I think they will probably rush back in Lando, which would seem out of place now, after two movies without even mentioning his name, as if he had died some time ago, soon after ROTJ.

BTW... did anyone else find Yoda's ghost in TLJ was odd, like... not how Yoda has ever acted before - laughing in a crazy insane way. He's more rational than that, almost emotionless, and then he starts cackling away uncontrollably. It just didn't seem right.
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  #89  
Old 8th January 2018, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by griffin View Post
BTW... did anyone else find Yoda's ghost in TLJ was odd, like... not how Yoda has ever acted before - laughing in a crazy insane way. He's more rational than that, almost emotionless, and then he starts cackling away uncontrollably. It just didn't seem right.
Yoda showed more of the charlatan act he put on when Luke first encountered him in Empire. it was odd yet at the same time prequel Yoda was a boring and uninteresting robot.

Personally I see force ghosts as projections rather than individual entities, so my theory is Yoda's erratic behaviors mirrored Luke's trouble mental state in the movie.

I did really like that it was puppet Yoda too.
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  #90  
Old 8th January 2018, 10:30 PM
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Heh, like Bumblebee's Ghost

Although I would take it on face value that it is actually Yoda's ghost. And being so powerful it really doesn't make sense. I mean, that super-ghost could single-handedly END the First Order and take out Kylo Ren. It makes Yoda kind of a <expletive> for not doing so.

The Force Ghosts made more sense in the Original Trilogy when they were just apparitions who only appeared to Luke and only he could see/hear them. And that's all they were... just voices and visions. They couldn't physically interact. From a story telling POV, it was so that these characters could continue to serve as the Hero's Mentor even from beyond the grave. And sure, Yoda does do this in The Last Jedi... but it could've also been done without the big extravagant destruction of the tree and books. It might've been better if Yoda had persuaded Luke to do it himself, thus allowing Luke to stop dwelling on the past and look towards the future. Not Yoda doing it for him.

One point that The Empire Strikes Back made was that if Yoda has to use the Force for Luke, then it was a sign of Luke's weakness or failure. Like getting Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp. Of course Yoda could've done it himself, but he wanted to get Luke to do it. And as a teacher (and parent) I can tell you that this completely makes sense. When my students or my daughter has a question or a problem to solve, I don't just give them the answers. I encourage them to work it out or discover it for themselves. I might help guide them to find these answers, but I really do not like just telling answers to kids because then they don't learn anything!

So Yoda was in full Teacher Mode on Dagobah when he initially told Luke to use the Force to retrieve his own X-Wing. Yoda only later did it himself after Luke had given up and told Yoda, "You want the impossible!" Then of course was the epic exchange after Yoda retrieved the X-Wing...
Luke: "I don't... I don't believe it!"
Yoda: "That is why you fail."

Yoda only did it as a lesson of last resort to prove to Luke that he was not asking for the impossible and that it could be done. Yoda was helping Luke to overcome his defeatist attitude. If Yoda wanted to do this again, then surely a similar style lesson would've worked better. In Empire, Yoda was more of a director of learning rather than just a prattling font of knowledge -- which is good teaching practice. A good teacher doesn't spew facts at you, they guide you to see it for yourself.

Seriously... The Last Jedi Ghost Yoda is like a freakin' Muppet Chuck Norris. He could totally end the Star Wars on his own.
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