Secret Sightings Section idea

[jazzcomp]

Am in agreement with this

[Aqua Prime]

I think the problem is easy. Close the sightings thread and leave it open to members only. That will minimise scalpers. It won't stop them entirely, but it at least gives the members a fighting chance.

[GoktimusPrime]

Suggestion: How about if anyone finds a hard-to-find toy, reserve them all and then post the sighting location and reservation name.

e.g. "I just reserved a MP10 at TRU Parramatta under the name Daniel Witwicky." -- cos when I picked up my reserved MP10 they never asked me for ID. <shrug> The plus side of this idea is that it won't exclude lurking non-member collectors. The down side is that it won't exclude lurking scalpers either. Unless we combine this with Robzy's idea...

This is one of the reasons why, for years, I would ONLY post that I'd found a certain figure in stores. If people (from my state) wanted to know where, I'd PM them, so that it wasn't visible in the thread. I still do!

^So perhaps you post that you have sighted and reserved all figures, but don't post the store location or reservation name. If anyone wants this, they can PM you. If any lurking non-members really want to know bad enough, they can just register.

And I agree with griffin's sentiments -- I think with very rare, limited and highly sought after toys like MP10 and MP TC, priority ought to be given to the more long time dedicated fans. Like when I missed out on MP10 at TRU Parra by 2 minutes, I was really upset. But later when I learnt that it was Starscream77 who'd beaten me, I felt better knowing that the toy had been purchased by a fellow collector and not some "random mook" or scalper.

So yeah... if I happen to see MP10 or MPTC, I'm thinking about reserving them and just saying that it's been sighted and reserved on the sightings thread, then anyone who wants it can PM me for the reservation name and store location. I don't need MP10 anymore, and MPTC just doesn't interest me, but I'm happy to reserve them for others if I see them.

I'm also not adverse to the idea of either closing off the entire sightings section to members only. If people really want to access this section badly enough, they should register. If we make it like the Salesyard or Meets section where new members are excluded, I think that's fine too -- again, if people really want to access it bad enough, they'll register and participate actively enough to get their rank bumped up. Just explain the rules section that this rule is in place to prevent assisting scalpers (which would be true). I'm sure new members can appreciate that.

[Lint]

I don't agree with this at all

I joined this forum because a google search led me to the sightings thread which led me to an acquisition win.

At first when I was very active in retail toy hunting I felt that the sightings thread should be restricted to members only but I now realise that it is arguably one of the biggest reasons why people would join this forum in the first place.

I managed to pick up MP-10 because I was willing (and I guess able) to put in the hard yards to go hunt for it, assisted by a rolling update of sightings (and non-sightings) in the sightings thread. I also sighted MP Thundercracker, simliarly by putting in the effort to go out and look for it.

I honestly am beginning to think scalpers don't thrive in Australia anyway given the following factors:
-US prices are far better than AU ones, importing is cheaper than retail
-If scalpers are purely motivated by profit, it is a lot of effort to put in (keeping updated with exclusives, prices and sightings) for a, comparatively, little gain.
-We beat them to it, every single time. Either by forming syndicates or simply by pure dedication to the hunt. We are our own worst enemy and are growing in number.

Besides which a real clever scalper would be or have friends in retail who would reserve them stock as soon as it hits the shelves, thereby bypassing the 'sightings' process.

If understand that many of us are frustrated by recent events but if you are truly concerned that you or other members will miss out on a toy then DON'T POST IN THE SIGHTINGS THREAD. I'm sure many of us do this already, myself included.

But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members) and you want to be able to obtain a toy by refreshing a page on webpage that most other people can't see and then make a phone call.

[Robzy]

^So perhaps you post that you have sighted and reserved all figures, but don't post the store location or reservation name. If anyone wants this, they can PM you. If any lurking non-members really want to know bad enough, they can just register.

Yeah, but if it's ultra rare, I'm not gonna go giving info away to people who have just registered, never posted, and then PM'd me for details am I? By the time they went to all that effort (and waited for the registration process to go through), one of the regulars would have already already contacted me. I look out for my friends on Ozformers the same way that many have helped me out over the years!

But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members)

I don't think anyone has said that. Ozformers is a community, not a general service to the public. If anyone wants to be part of that community, then I welcome them to join. But saying a lurker (who may or may not be a scalper) should enjoy all the same benefits from a *free* online community that its members do, isn't something I agree with.

Like you said, "clever scalpers" will find another way. It's not like Ozformers is hiding information that the general public couldn't find out anyway. I'm sure there are TF collectors who work at TRU that aren't members of Ozformers... they can take the stock right from the back room before it even hits the shelves. That's an advantage too, and good luck to them.

For me, it's not "elitism", it's about giving my friends (members here) a head start!

At first when I was very active in retail toy hunting I felt that the sightings thread should be restricted to members only but I now realise that it is arguably one of the biggest reasons why people would join this forum in the first place.

To be clear, I think the proposition (which isn't a new one) is for ultra rare and low production items only. I'm pretty sure the intention would still be to have general access sightings threads for 99% of the TFs sold.

[Trent]

While I get what you are saying Lint, I do disagree with some of the things you have said:

I managed to pick up MP-10 because I was willing (and I guess able) to put in the hard yards to go hunt for it, assisted by a rolling update of sightings (and non-sightings) in the sightings thread. I also sighted MP Thundercracker, simliarly by putting in the effort to go out and look for it.

I don't necessarily have the time to go hunting for toys. Wollongong has 1 TRU. The next nearest is Miranda. 1 hour up the road. After that it's Campbelltown, and further into the city. That's a lot of 'hard yards' to put in to go look for a toy. This is why the sightings thread is so awesome, it saves us the time of spending potentially hours in the car. We can go straight to the sighted store. WIN

I honestly am beginning to think scalpers don't thrive in Australia anyway given the following factors:
-US prices are far better than AU ones, importing is cheaper than retail
-If scalpers are purely motivated by profit, it is a lot of effort to put in (keeping updated with exclusives, prices and sightings) for a, comparatively, little gain.
-We beat them to it, every single time. Either by forming syndicates or simply by pure dedication to the hunt. We are our own worst enemy and are growing in number.

You can't tell me that the days that MP-10 went on sale, that scalpers werent the ones buying them up. We have reports of 6 going from one store via one person, 4 from Wollongong, etc. Add to that the fact that TRU had a 25% off coupon for that time and that would make a pretty attrative deal for those who are that way inclined. Hell, you couldn't import them for that price!

And it's not that much effort anyway. How hard is it to once a day look at a bookmarked page to see whats new? I do it nearly every day, so could anyone.

Besides which a real clever scalper would be or have friends in retail who would reserve them stock as soon as it hits the shelves, thereby bypassing the 'sightings' process.

I doubt this. Maybe some, but most would do their research via internet and phonecalls.

If understand that many of us are frustrated by recent events but if you are truly concerned that you or other members will miss out on a toy then DON'T POST IN THE SIGHTINGS THREAD. I'm sure many of us do this already, myself included.

But if we post in the sightings thread, it's usually because we have just been to that store, seen that toy and bought it. And now we'd like to share that info with other board members who are as exited as we are. It's like me with MP-10, I saw 5 in TRU on a Thursday arvo. Didn't buy one myself as I wasn't sure whether I wanted it enough. About half an hour later posted on here that I saw it. 1 board member got one, the other 4 were bought by one other person, as far as we can tell, not of these boards. And this happened within an afternoon! While not conclusive evidence, it is certainly suspicious. And I am a glass-half-empty sort of person, so assume the worst.

But to restrict sightings from the public? That is elitism of the highest level. You are basically saying that you deserve these products more than other members (and non-members) and you want to be able to obtain a toy by refreshing a page on webpage that most other people can't see and then make a phone call.

It's hardly elitism. If we werent concerned about missing out on these toys and then seeing an abundance of them at the next Parra Fair for double the price, this thread would not exist. It's about fairness, and trying to hinder those that abuse the system.

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out our differences of opinion.

[Lint]

I don't think anyone has said that. Ozformers is a community, not a general service to the public. If anyone wants to be part of that community, then I welcome them to join. But saying a lurker (who may or may not be a scalper) should enjoy all the same benefits from a *free* online community that its members do, isn't something I agree with.

My point is people, such as myself, would not have joined if there wasn't a *free service* to attract me to the community. Maybe it's just me but I'd rather miss out on a toy than deprive this board a mechanism by which to gain new members.

To be clear, I think the proposition (which isn't a new one) is for ultra rare and low production items only. I'm pretty sure the intention would still be to have general access sightings threads for 99% of the TFs sold.

You're still endorising a policy which is justified by you deserving the ultra rare low production items over, as someone said, "some random mook". This is elitism. I really got back into transformers because I was gifted a high quality TF on my 21st as well as retail releases of Masterpieces. You could be depriving potential fans of these opportunities. Besides which, where do you draw the line with ultra rare and low production? Does it apply to short-packed figures and army-builders? I can see this restriction relaxing to "whatever we desire that is in short supply"

I don't necessarily have the time to go hunting for toys. Wollongong has 1 TRU. The next nearest is Miranda. 1 hour up the road. After that it's Campbelltown, and further into the city. That's a lot of 'hard yards' to put in to go look for a toy. This is why the sightings thread is so awesome, it saves us the time of spending potentially hours in the car. We can go straight to the sighted store. WIN

I sympathise with your logistical disadvantage. I come from WA where we have like 3 TRU's. Sightings can help a lot. But still, you want the sightings of things you want to be exclusive to you and not others. I still don't think this is fair.

You can't tell me that the days that MP-10 went on sale, that scalpers werent the ones buying them up. We have reports of 6 going from one store via one person, 4 from Wollongong, etc. Add to that the fact that TRU had a 25% off coupon for that time and that would make a pretty attrative deal for those who are that way inclined. Hell, you couldn't import them for that price!

Agree with you that it was a good price as I scored it myself. Sounds like you have a NSW scalper problem. Scalpers always gonna scalp though.

And it's not that much effort anyway. How hard is it to once a day look at a bookmarked page to see whats new? I do it nearly every day, so could anyone.

To keep on top of sightings, especially for something like MP-10, you'd have to be checking multiple times a day. Blink a day and you could miss it. Maybe the scalpers might not know this but if you exerted this kind of effort on the stock market or maybe even finding/trading antiques they could make far more money. It's not that much effort, but it seems to be an absurd amount of effort to make a small profit in my opinion.

I doubt this.

Seen this happen with my own eyes, not for TFs mind you, but still...

But if we post in the sightings thread, it's usually because we have just been to that store, seen that toy and bought it. And now we'd like to share that info with other board members who are as exited as we are. It's like me with MP-10, I saw 5 in TRU on a Thursday arvo. Didn't buy one myself as I wasn't sure whether I wanted it enough. About half an hour later posted on here that I saw it. 1 board member got one, the other 4 were bought by one other person, as far as we can tell, not of these boards. And this happened within an afternoon! While not conclusive evidence, it is certainly suspicious. And I am a glass-half-empty sort of person, so assume the worst.

I'm a glass-half-full sort of person, especially for something like this. I'd say it was either a syndicate composed of board members, or at least someone buying them up for friends/associates. It is annoying for the rest of us, but is there really anything we can/should do to stop it besides beat them to it?

It's hardly elitism. If we werent concerned about missing out on these toys and then seeing an abundance of them at the next Parra Fair for double the price, this thread would not exist. It's about fairness, and trying to hinder those that abuse the system.

Not trying to pick a fight, just pointing out our differences of opinion.

Given such eyewitness accounts I have to agree that you have a Parra Fair scalper problem. Only thing I can say to that is, don't feed the scalpers?


The other problem with a private sightings section is what to do about the regular sightings section? Is it going to be moderated to delete sightings of 'exclusives?'. Do I have to visit the private sightings section to check what I can and can't post in the regular sightings section? What happens when a sufficient number of members have access to the private sightings and hence 'in-the-know demand' once again outstrips available supply? Do we have a super private sightings section?

I still think this is a poor solution for an unfortunate but not-that-prevalent problem. It seems the real problem here is that supply of exclusives is not meeting the demand more than anything.

[5FDP]

We already have enough hidden / restricted areas on the forum, I don't think we need another. If someone really wants a figure, there are numerous avenues in which to acquire it e.g. private PM's, group buys, reservations, laybys etc. without segregating ourselves from the wider online community.

Personally, I've never been in a situation whereby I've missed out on a figure that I've really wanted and that is due to both our sightings thread and the wonderful community of members we have here.

[VERT]

Not a bad idea at all. I see your point and its a good idea.

[Ravagecat]

I just want to be clear that this wouldn't be something for the purpose of punishing people for not joining. This is like society in general - for people to benefit from a larger society/community of people, each person needs to contribute to that society/community.
Conversely, if people aren't willing or able to contribute, shouldn't the benefits, like the sightings of rarer items, be first available to those who do contribute here (with sightings, news, info, meets)... and if there is enough stock to satisfy those contributors here, the sightings would be relocated into the regular (public) sightings section.

A lot of different point of views flying around here on this which is great...everyone is entitled to their opinion of course.

My 2 cents is with Griffin..we are a collecting community and the community should be privy to some information first. Albeit I've only been a member since March this year, but I have still be an avid collector for well over 10 years who fully appreciates the toys I have collected from various sources around the country/world...yes I have only just decided to take advantage of what a collecting community has to offer (knowledge, friendships, opinions, recommendations etc) but I signed up to OTCA for that exact purpose. I strongly believe that some information shared on this site should be only available to those who have taken the time to register and contribute.

"Clink"