Why can't we have another animated or FoC-style Transformers movie?

[liegeprime]

As Skyshadow has pointed out... life is unfair... and our lives are sorely manipulated whether we like it or not by the powers that be of HasTakTom..... and they are unfair


Okay maybe just a bit unconcerned, coz there's a lot going on anyway for the line as Ultramarginal has pointed out. But, and Im certain this is one factor them powers that be cannot deny ( at least with their inner selves) its all about budget. They may have allocated already for upcoming projects and for a movie ... it's budget for # 4 Bayverse instead of something else so this wonderful idea you have cannot be squeezed in... pure speculation om my part but hey, corporate types only think numbers, figures and data not likes, fan emotions and all that - these are irrelevant. You'd think Shockwave would be perfect in their boardrooms ei heheheh.

Even if they divert it to CGI if it's directed by MIchael bay I betcha it's more explosions, explosions and nothing much else.. explosions move the story forward in his world heheheh, but wouldn't it be wonderful though, finally, humans blown up, squished like pulp laser blasters vaporizing them or decapitating hundreds in a blast... all without the loss of a single life during shoot.... that would be more acceptably realistic, rather than the battle in the first movie... Prime falls from a height after being thrown by Megatron and yet when he falls all the humans somehow end up in between the spaces of his torso and limbs and is able to get away safely, pffft, just stuuupid... Megatron flicks a filthy human and still it doesnt really dismember the person or at least renders him totally unconscious probably with head bleed and permanent paralysis... as Im sure Megs wouldn't hold back his strength in flicking someone... but noooooo they humans end up all ok, just dirty but now bruises or broken bones or internal bleeding, that's just inexcusable!!!!

[GoktimusPrime]

Ok, here's my 2c regarding live-action vs animated TF movies. I'm going to go against the grain a bit and say that another live-action TF movie, with humans, is a big "Yes" from me. I wouldn't mind seeing an animated one too, but there's things that a live-action can do that no other format can. For example, the real human actors is a great idea and the way they interact with live action Transformers in a real world setting, to me just can't be beat. If anything, the previous 3 Bay TF movies proved that.

I agree. There's nothing necessarily wrong with having human characters in Transformers per se, it's just that human characters shouldn't be developed at the expense of the Transformers. The Transformers should also be treated as characters. Humans are important for the general non-fan audience as an 'anchorpoint' for them to relate to. Look at G1 for example, characters like Buster and Spike Witwicky were developed (Spike's still being developed in the current ReGeneration One series!), but not at the expense of the Transformers themselves. The thing I have with the Bay movies is that the Autobots feel more like accessories for Sam Witwicky. Here comes Sam, all cool and suave, oh - he needs to lay the smack down - BUMBLEBEEEEE!!

Have the human characters, fine - but don't forget that the Transformers themselves should be characters too. Otherwise they just end up being set pieces or one-dimensional caricatures.

BUT... it can be difficult to appreciate that unique sense of real world Transformers in Bay's movies, simply because the screenplay, over the top humor and bad characterizations, for both humans and TFs, gets in the way. However, I cannot fault the visuals/CGI as it really does look outstanding (not necessarily the robot designs - that's a mixed bag for me) and the unique sense of greatness and awesomeness that a TF live-action movie can bring.

^Agree. Visually the films were spectacular. But a lot of it seemed based more on "WHHOOAAAA!" rather than a deep emotional impact. If you look at Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy; that had a lot of great adrenaline pumping action scenes, but also massive heart-wrenching emotions too. That's the kind of balance you want - the proper mix of action which is used as a vehicle to tell a good story. A story shouldn't exist as a vehicle to showcase action.

If only it can be made with an outstanding script, no shaky, confusing camera work, and no silliness from humans (though we need humans in it because it opens up a whole new dimension to the movie that you just wouldn't get otherwise - only give them more important roles to justify their existence!), then I think we'd really have something.

I agree with most of that, except for the shaky camera work - I liked that. It's more realistic looking. If you've ever seen a real fight (either IRL or on TV etc.) it's very messy and chaotic - and it's over in seconds. If you were watch that and you were an ant, it would look even messier and more chaotic and blurry -- you'd just see giant limbs flying everywhere. Dark of the Moon used more long distance shots and had 'cleaner' looking fight scenes though -- that was because the studio wanted to shoot it in 3D where they prefer longer shots. But it took away some of that 'magic' in the first movie where we saw everything from low angles and really portrayed the Transformers as "Giant Effing Robots." Very few (if any) other Transformers series/films before Michael Bay really conveyed that incredible sense of physical awe and scale. What you watch or read other series, especially in the absence of humans, you can forget scale and size. Heck, for the entire first series and most of Season 2 of Beast Wars I didn't really appreciate just how small the Maximals and Predacons were until we saw Megatron enter the Ark where he was just dwarfed by the slumbering Autobots and Decepticons (because Mainframe wanted to portray the G1 TFs as "Titans" in the eyes of the Beast Wars TFs). Heck, when I play Fall of Cybertron, I don't feel gigantic (only when I play Bruticus in campaign mode). With the first Transformers Bay movie, at no point are you allowed to forget that these are freaking giant robots!

[BigTransformerTrev]

We are in a media rich time for transformers at the moment. Live action movies, a second excellent computer game, a great Computer animated TV series, a second tv series specifically aimed at younger children, two comic series with other one-shots or mini series popping up on a semi regular basis. Also, a MMORPG going live some time this year, maybe. And 3 novels in the last couple years.

That's a lot of stuff.

That is actually a very good point. I remember the mid/late ninties's/early naughties where there was esentially nothing about. Yes, yes there was Beast Wars. But as a Uni student hopping between classes, parties and the pub the most I ever saw at that time was, when channel hopping, a little rat call a gorilla 'Optimus'! I shrieked in outrage, thinking this is what they had remade Transformers as. So not until years later, when I found out that it was the decendants of G1, not them themselves, and then RID came out and I realised we were looking at a potential TF multiverse, that I was able to put it in perspective. For nearly a decade it seemed like the world had forgotten Transformers or tried to turn it into something I hated and it made me a sad man. Now we have multiple toy lines, multiple comic-lines, multiple cartoon shows, multiple video games etc etc so maybe there isn't room for another animated movie....

....yet!


But I for one will hold out hope and pray to Primus every day that one day we indeed get another animated or FoC movie. I truly think it would be fantastic!

[GoktimusPrime]

Beast Wars fantastic and remember that it did revive the Transformers franchise and saved it from extinction. The real media dead period was the mid 1990s. What was available in 1995?? Nothing. No comics, no cartoon -- nuthin'. The other dead period was 2002 -- the limbo year after RiD had died down and before Armada came out. That was freakin' frustrating (though we did get lots of G1 reissues -- but bugger all new moulds that year, let alone any new media).

But I do agree that we are in an extremely media rich time right now. Heck, just recently Dirtbag made his second ever media appearance in #83 of ReGeneration One. His previous appearance was in the 2010 G2 Redux comic from FunPub -- fifteen years after the toy came out!

For nearly a decade it seemed like the world had forgotten Transformers or tried to turn it into something I hated and it made me a sad man. Now we have multiple toy lines, multiple comic-lines, multiple cartoon shows, multiple video games etc etc so maybe there isn't room for another animated movie....

Beast Wars did make Transformers very popular again -- whereas G2 nearly killed the franchise, Beast Wars became the 3rd best selling boys' toy line by 1997 (2nd only to Toy Story and Star Wars). Beast Machines managed to maintain success despite being considered inferior to Beast Wars (though some argue that it was "riding on the coattails of Beast Wars' success"). The success of Beast Wars then led to Car Robot (RiD), which then led onto everything else which has brought us to where we are now. While the live action movies certainly did massively boost the popularity of Transformers, Transformers had already been a strong franchise well before then. It was the increasing success of the franchise that prompted Hasbro to commission a live action film -- they wouldn't have invested in such a massive venture over a dying brand.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Beast Wars fantastic and remember that it did revive the Transformers franchise and saved it from extinction. The real media dead period was the mid 1990s. What was available in 1995?? Nothing. No comics, no cartoon -- nuthin'. The other dead period was 2002 -- the limbo year after RiD had died down and before Armada came out. That was freakin' frustrating (though we did get lots of G1 reissues -- but bugger all new moulds that year, let alone any new media).

But I do agree that we are in an extremely media rich time right now. Heck, just recently Dirtbag made his second ever media appearance in #83 of ReGeneration One. His previous appearance was in the 2010 G2 Redux comic from FunPub -- fifteen years after the toy came out!


Beast Wars did make Transformers very popular again -- whereas G2 nearly killed the franchise, Beast Wars became the 3rd best selling boys' toy line by 1997 (2nd only to Toy Story and Star Wars). Beast Machines managed to maintain success despite being considered inferior to Beast Wars (though some argue that it was "riding on the coattails of Beast Wars' success"). The success of Beast Wars then led to Car Robot (RiD), which then led onto everything else which has brought us to where we are now. While the live action movies certainly did massively boost the popularity of Transformers, Transformers had already been a strong franchise well before then. It was the increasing success of the franchise that prompted Hasbro to commission a live action film -- they wouldn't have invested in such a massive venture over a dying brand.

Yeah, I know all that NOW. These days I've got the Beast Wars DVD Box Set, IDW Poster & some comics, Depthcharge, Waspinator and a bunch of BW Robot Heroes. Got a bunch of Beast Machines stuff too. But back then I was too busy getting drunk and laid and all I knew of the show was 20 seconds on TV of a furry rat calling a hairy monkey 'Optimus' and sans the internet for all I knew that was Optimus Prime. And to turn Optimus from a huge truck into a monkey made my sphinkter clench in anguish and rage! So for me personally it seemed like there was a completely dead decade without any TF stuff about. And now there is that much I can't keep up!

Reading some of the comments on this thread, maybe people are right to want a Fall of Cybertron styled animated movie rather than another G1 one. Personally I wouldn't mind a G1 one but every mistake would be so glaring. And even though many of the voice actors are still about (Peter Cullen - I love you so much!) Starscream sounding any different in a G1 movie would just not be right. So yes, a G1 BASED maybe FoC-style movie as soon as the current overload of TF stuff winds down a bit (which it may never do - and that I can probably live with).

But (sniff) I want my animated movie now still, big sook that I am!

[Megatron]

I agree. There's nothing necessarily wrong with having human characters in Transformers per se, it's just that human characters shouldn't be developed at the expense of the Transformers. The Transformers should also be treated as characters. Humans are important for the general non-fan audience as an 'anchorpoint' for them to relate to. Look at G1 for example, characters like Buster and Spike Witwicky were developed (Spike's still being developed in the current ReGeneration One series!), but not at the expense of the Transformers themselves. The thing I have with the Bay movies is that the Autobots feel more like accessories for Sam Witwicky. Here comes Sam, all cool and suave, oh - he needs to lay the smack down - BUMBLEBEEEEE!!

Have the human characters, fine - but don't forget that the Transformers themselves should be characters too. Otherwise they just end up being set pieces or one-dimensional caricatures.

+1. Yes, absolutely. Humans and Transformers can and should both be developed as characters in their own right, and at the same time not take away from each other. Good script writing really helps.

Also I had a similar thought about Sam and Bumblebee when I first watched the movies... he seemed too unnecessarily clingy to his human buddy and it just didn't look good for him on the big screen.

^Agree. Visually the films were spectacular. But a lot of it seemed based more on "WHHOOAAAA!" rather than a deep emotional impact. If you look at Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy; that had a lot of great adrenaline pumping action scenes, but also massive heart-wrenching emotions too. That's the kind of balance you want - the proper mix of action which is used as a vehicle to tell a good story. A story shouldn't exist as a vehicle to showcase action.

Yep. I did find Batman movies entertaining for that reason - a good story with emotional impact but without sacrificing the action.

I agree with most of that, except for the shaky camera work - I liked that. It's more realistic looking. If you've ever seen a real fight (either IRL or on TV etc.) it's very messy and chaotic - and it's over in seconds. If you were watch that and you were an ant, it would look even messier and more chaotic and blurry -- you'd just see giant limbs flying everywhere. Dark of the Moon used more long distance shots and had 'cleaner' looking fight scenes though -- that was because the studio wanted to shoot it in 3D where they prefer longer shots. But it took away some of that 'magic' in the first movie where we saw everything from low angles and really portrayed the Transformers as "Giant Effing Robots." Very few (if any) other Transformers series/films before Michael Bay really conveyed that incredible sense of physical awe and scale. What you watch or read other series, especially in the absence of humans, you can forget scale and size. Heck, for the entire first series and most of Season 2 of Beast Wars I didn't really appreciate just how small the Maximals and Predacons were until we saw Megatron enter the Ark where he was just dwarfed by the slumbering Autobots and Decepticons (because Mainframe wanted to portray the G1 TFs as "Titans" in the eyes of the Beast Wars TFs). Heck, when I play Fall of Cybertron, I don't feel gigantic (only when I play Bruticus in campaign mode). With the first Transformers Bay movie, at no point are you allowed to forget that these are freaking giant robots!

Well I've never seen BW/BM (not a fan at all) and haven't played the game yet so I can't comment on those points. However, as far as shaky camera work goes, I think it's entirely unnecessary. The only time it should be used is when you'd want to convey to the viewer that the entire setting is shaking along with the camera (such as earthquake, battle ship got hit, etc.) - and even there you'd want to be using it carefully and sparingly. You can still show a fast and furious fight without making the viewer dizzy and giving them a headache (which is what I got watching the first movie fight scenes. I could not tell heads or tails what the heck was going on or who was fighting whom... it was frustrating really). Sometimes, showing things exactly as they would be in real life (such as a chaotic fight that is over in seconds) just doesn't work as well in a movie - hence where a little creative license does not go astray. The Matrix anyone? You can still give a sense of grandness and use low angles/close up shots etc. without the confusion of shakiness (and stilted/fragmented takes). Which brings me to one final comment - one of the reasons why I like DotM more than the other two Bay movies is precisely for the reasons outlined above - for the first time we had some nice, steady shots where I could actually tell what was going on during battle scenes. I can't emphasise enough what a relief that was for me!

[5FDP]

I would loose my sh@# over an animated / CGI movie

[Lord_Zed]

A new animated movie would be cool, though I can't imagine it would have such a wide appeal, or make as much money as the Bay films. If it was some sort of story completely set on Cybertron the appeal would pretty much be limited to die hard fans and kids. I'd totally watch it though.

Maybe if they did it at a smaller scale.

Even if they divert it to CGI if it's directed by MIchael bay I betcha it's more explosions, explosions and nothing much else.. explosions move the story forward in his world heheheh, but wouldn't it be wonderful though, finally, humans blown up, squished like pulp laser blasters vaporizing them or decapitating hundreds in a blast... all without the loss of a single life during shoot.... that would be more acceptably realistic, rather than the battle in the first movie... Prime falls from a height after being thrown by Megatron and yet when he falls all the humans somehow end up in between the spaces of his torso and limbs and is able to get away safely, pffft, just stuuupid... Megatron flicks a filthy human and still it doesnt really dismember the person or at least renders him totally unconscious probably with head bleed and permanent paralysis... as Im sure Megs wouldn't hold back his strength in flicking someone... but noooooo they humans end up all ok, just dirty but now bruises or broken bones or internal bleeding, that's just inexcusable!!!!

Ummmm, I'm pretty sure if nothing else that Bay movies had a higher human casualty count than previous Transformers media, The Decepticons did wipe out a whole military base, in the first one, and the a significant population of the Chicago in the third. The third film was the first time I've actually seen a Decepticon execute a human rather than just make threats about it. Of course those damned named human characters seemed to miraculously escape permanent harm again and again, but this is true for many stories, how come the bridge crew from Star Trek always come back from away missions, but that new guy we'd never seen till 5 minutes ago doesn't?

[kup]

A new animated movie would be cool, though I can't imagine it would have such a wide appeal, or make as much money as the Bay films. If it was some sort of story completely set on Cybertron the appeal would pretty much be limited to die hard fans and kids. I'd totally watch it though.

Maybe if they did it at a smaller scale.

DC Direct to DVD animated movies have been remarkably successful and they are mostly made for fans/comic book crowds. I am pretty sure that the same audience that would play WFC/FOC would also be interested in watching a direct to DVD animated movie and be sizable enough to make it profitable Although it would not be anywhere near as much as a cinematic live action release but it would be totally silly to expect that sort of return for such a project.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I
I agree with most of that, except for the shaky camera work - I liked that. It's more realistic looking. If you've ever seen a real fight (either IRL or on TV etc.)

I am not a fan of the shaky camera for fights. Sure, it may be realistic, but we are talking about big transforming robots from space... I'd rather I was able to see what was going on. Plus far too many movies use the shaky camera now. I have made it a condition that movies I see must have a still camera. Hunger games, if you saw that was ridiculous.

a little rat call a gorilla 'Optimus'! I shrieked in outrage, thinking this is what they had remade Transformers as.

I saw a bit and heard the names "optimus Primal" and "Megatron" and thought, wow, what a blatant rip off! how did they get away with that?

DC Direct to DVD animated movies have been remarkably successful and they are mostly made for fans/comic book crowds. I am pretty sure that the same audience that would play WFC/FOC would also be interested in watching a direct to DVD animated movie and be sizable enough to make it profitable Although it would not be anywhere near as much as a cinematic live action release but it would be totally silly to expect that sort of return for such a project.

I think this would be the only way to get a WFC FOC movie. Although TBH, I think the games are movie enough for me and would rather the money went on another game, which will probably be called ROC. Rise Of Cybertron? Still they did get around to releasing an animated TMNT movie that did well enough, so with the interest generated from various media at the moment, as long as the budget wasn't too high, it could be a general release. But unlikely.

Still I'd see it. I love Transformers on Cybertron. Without humans. Although the disguise aspect is a bit pointless, but hey, minor details.