Solo: A Star Wars Story

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

It's not so much the money, but the bad PR that has resulted from all of this.

When you even have shills like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HtqN5FAK38

Saying Kennedy should step down, it's not a good look.

Kennedy hiring and firing multiple directors (Josh Trank, Gareth Edwards, Colin Trevorrow, Phil Lord, Chris Miller) makes her look massively incompetent. Couple that with a loss, and tanking in foreign markets, for instance China:

China sampled the goods with Episode VII and decided to pass. And the franchise has been beset by diminishing returns each time out. Rogue One dropped 45% from Force Awakens. Last Jedi dropped 45% from Rogue One. And it looks like Solo is going to drop around 45% from Last Jedi. At this rate, Star Wars 9 will be lucky to earn $11.38 million in China.

And it's still a PR nightmare even if they make money back on home releases and other merchandise.

[drifand]

Is a PR nightmware, is not about so what?

I can tell you right now, the more they take their time in rectifying Star Wars where its has gone wrong, the more money it looses.

You can throw more money into toys, Many people are not biting in fact TLJ ones are alarming even for lego.

And if people are not aware, Disney are NOW listening to the fans which was what Kathleen and Rian refused to care about. I don't know abut you guys but honestly TLJ would have walked quietly if the two didn't say anything wrong but the problem is they offended a lot. These things cost the franchise millions.

It may not be a big deal to you, but Disney is actually worried as this is NOT what they wanted. The brand is not ruined but is already fractured, this should not even happen by far. Solo is the beginning.

I remembered people saying this was a minority? just a bunch of disgruntled fanboys? I didn't know that was worth 50 mil? wow? or are we forgetting these disgruntled fanboys have families and also influences what the family watches? Or toys thathe/she will allow their kids to buy?

It not just a movie folks, everything you built on the brand can be brought down just by saying the wrong thing to the people who supported your brand. Everything.

[SMHFConvoy]

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

[Ralph Wiggum]

We should also hate on the actors and actresses as well because reasons.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

If you know a person is difficult to work with then why take the risk and hire them in the first place?

Lord and Miller were fired over creative differences:

"Unfortunately, our vision and process weren’t aligned with our partners on this project. We normally aren’t fans of the phrase 'creative differences' but for once this cliché is true. We are really proud of the amazing and world-class work of our cast and crew."

Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

We should also hate on the actors and actresses as well because reasons.

So actors can't be critiqued and we must suck them off at every turn?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Originally Posted by MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

So actors can't be critiqued and we must suck them off at every turn?

Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entr...b06d1621b6b2bb

And she’s just closed her instagram account.

Edit: for the record I’m not accusing or implying anyone here is that toxic

[bowspearer]

Originally Posted by shockNwave

If I understand your second point correctly, it looks like bringing more of a dark feel to the proceedings is a breath of fresh air and if so, then Rogue One is a good example as it ends with many good guys dying and the rebel fleet being smashed (which is more acceptable thanks to the impact made by Game of Thrones capacity to turn storytelling on it's head).

In part, but only if you're going to work with what exists. Case in point, Rogue one with a couple of tweeks could have worked. All they needed to do was remove the Dark Troopers from the movie and go one of two ways. The first, which I'm not as much of a fan of, would have been a throwaway line which suggested that Kyle Katarn's copy of the plans had been boobytrapped with a trojan horse of some kind, requiring a second copy.

The second would have been for the Rogue One to end in defeat with all the characters dead in the end - followed on by a scene at the end, with Mon Montha contacting a young Kyle Katarn about striking a top secret second installation. Furthermore the hiring a high priced ace mercenary after Rebel Special Forces team got wiped out, smells of the kind of desperation which would drive such a decision.

And that's the problem - if Disney were respecting the material and working with it, then there wouldn't be half the problems there are.

Originally Posted by drifand

I remembered people saying this was a minority? just a bunch of disgruntled fanboys? I didn't know that was worth 50 mil? wow? or are we forgetting these disgruntled fanboys have families and also influences what the family watches? Or toys thathe/she will allow their kids to buy?

Didn't you know, we're just a bunch of "uppity cishet white patriarchal s***lords who need to check their privilege".

Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

So? It hasn't ruined anything or even hurt the brand. They put the movie out at the same time as Infinity War and some other movies, they'll still make Episode 9 and a bunch of other SW movies.

They'll probably do well at Christmas with the Solo home release.

Actually Disney's share price dropped one percent directly due to Solo and has dropped 6% for the year to date, making the brand more liability than asset to Disney at this point: https://movieweb.com/solo-star-wars-...x-office-bomb/

Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

Yeah because Kathleen Kennedy's the problem...

Actually her handling of fans is a serious part of the problem. You don't grow your business by treating customers like they don't matter and then telling them to piss off. Yet that's exactly what her approach has been.

All this attacking of males and particularly white males, who have largely and traditionally been the core audience of Star Wars, is financial stupidity. Anyone with her business experience should well be aware that when growing new markets for your product, you do so in a manner which doesn't alienate your core market.

All the problems which people have with The Last Jedi, wouldn't have been met with anywhere near the animosity they have if fans simply felt that this was a misstep (which it was - Johnson essentially tossed Abrams' plans for the trilogy on a dumpster fire and cause Colin Trevorrow to quit, while losing the plot so much that even Mark Hamill describe his character in it as "Jake Skywalker"), they were being heard, they were being valued, Disney cared about the Lore and things were going to be corrected in Episode 9.

That didn't happen. If a person walks into a store or a restaurant, gets terrible service, then gets abused by the staff, they're going to walk away, feel burned, never go back and tell all their friends to do the same.

That's exactly what happened here. TLJ is the most divisive Star Wars film to date and Kathleen Kennedy and the likes of Rian Johnson, have done nothing but fan the flames and add fuel to the fire. So how can anyone be surprised when much like with a bad store or restaurant experience, fans give Lucasfilm the finger by voting with their wallets.

The fact is that as the public face of Lucasfilm, Kathleen Kennedy has been a terrible brand ambassador for the product - which in this case, is Star Wars.

Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

Josh Trank is known for being difficult to work with, Lord and Miller were way behind on schedule, they were most likely warned and in the end still got producers credits.

That will increase your costs, but it isn't to blame for the low turnout. In terms of the story there, Ron Howard was still able to crank out a workable movie in the end.

The problem is how this film was handled. People have commented that the trailers for Solo weren't as good or strategically placed as with Rogue One, there were debacles like removing the blaster from Han and Lando in movie posters which made people expect the worst, and as stated about, there was nothing to suggest to people who didn't like TLJ, that this movie would be any different than TLJ in terms of problems with it.

Also, let's be clear, Deadpool 2 had been out a week prior and Infinity War was already in cinemas for a couple of weeks prior. It wasn't competing with either film for an opening weekend. Likewise, the whole argument about it opening on the Memorial Day Weekend, was that it was supposed to be like playing tennis with the net down - there was no real competition for it in terms of opening weekends.

Yet it got hammered. Furthermore, up until now, other movies haven't been a threat to Star Wars, but rather it's been the other way around - where other movies lost money because they opened against Star Wars.

No matter how much people try and blame it just on Star Wars fatigue and directorial problems, it wont change the fact that the biggest problem has been that the brand has been damaged with cinemagoers due to repeated PR debacles.

Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy

But hey you know dude's are infallible.

I don't see anyone here saying that there weren't issues with male directors.

However why are you so threatened by acknowledging the concept that female corporate spokespeople and leaders are fallible?

After all, how is judging a female corporate spokesperson positively based on what is between her legs, rather than merit, any better than judging them negatively based on what is between their legs, rather than on merit.

After all, true equality means equality of accountability as well as equality of opportunity.

[MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!]

Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum

Jesus man, settle down. Of course an actor’s character and their acting ability can be critiqued. But when the vitriol turns to personal attacks of a sexist/racist nature, then yeah the fandom is getting toxic.

Case in point: https://m.huffingtonpost.com.au/entr...b06d1621b6b2bb

And she’s just closed her instagram account.

Edit: for the record I’m not accusing or implying anyone here is that toxic

I agree, there is toxicity running through the fandom, whether it's racism, like what happened to Kelly Tran, or whether it's race-baiting like this, it has to stop.

[bowspearer]

Originally Posted by MEEEGGGAAATTTRRROOONNN!!!

I agree, there is toxicity running through the fandom, whether it's racism, like what happened to Kelly Tran, or whether it's race-baiting like this, it has to stop.

Seconded, there's absolutely no excuse for it. Furthermore,not only is it unnecessary, but it only cheapens legitimate concerns regarding Disney's handling of the franchise. In short, noone really wins in the end with it.

The problem is that it's like there's two opposing groups of Sith on each side.

There's those who racebait and and harass people, and then there's the SJW crowd who just want to shut up anyone who dares take issue with their culutral Marxist masterpiece as they clearly see it.

To these ideologues , Star Wars movies are "just movies". Yet the same ideologues have dogmatically decided that it is entirely justifiable to mock, troll and silence anyone who takes issue with them for any reason - thereby committing the "heresy" of daring to fail to worship the ground they walk on. They then demand that the "heretic" look up the definition of irony when their hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

I just had to block three trolls on facebook tonight because I dared take issue with George's backstory for Han and Chewie being discarded by the new movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure who's worse. Yes the haters act absolutely abominably, but at least they can recognise at some level that they're behaving horribly and with a healthy dose of keyboard courage.

Not even the prequel debates polarised people this much, and the heat Lucas copped caused him to sell Lucasfilm off to Disney just to be rid of it.

At this point, Star Wars, at least in terms of the community, is fractured beyond repair and ruined.

Maybe the fandom will unite, but given the damage, the ever increasing divide between those who want the mythos respected and those pushing their own agendas and the vitriol on both extremes which is creeping increasingly towards the centre, I really don't see how the damage can be undone and the rift repaired.

[Trent]

Originally Posted by bowspearer

Seconded, there's absolutely no excuse for it. Furthermore,not only is it unnecessary, but it only cheapens legitimate concerns regarding Disney's handling of the franchise. In short, noone really wins in the end with it.

The problem is that it's like there's two opposing groups of Sith on each side.

There's those who racebait and and harass people, and then there's the SJW crowd who just want to shut up anyone who dares take issue with their culutral Marxist masterpiece as they clearly see it.

To these ideologues , Star Wars movies are "just movies". Yet the same ideologues have dogmatically decided that it is entirely justifiable to mock, troll and silence anyone who takes issue with them for any reason - thereby committing the "heresy" of daring to fail to worship the ground they walk on. They then demand that the "heretic" look up the definition of irony when their hypocrisy is pointed out to them.

I just had to block three trolls on facebook tonight because I dared take issue with George's backstory for Han and Chewie being discarded by the new movie.

Honestly, I'm not sure who's worse. Yes the haters act absolutely abominably, but at least they can recognise at some level that they're behaving horribly and with a healthy dose of keyboard courage.

Not even the prequel debates polarised people this much, and the heat Lucas copped caused him to sell Lucasfilm off to Disney just to be rid of it.

At this point, Star Wars, at least in terms of the community, is fractured beyond repair and ruined.

Maybe the fandom will unite, but given the damage, the ever increasing divide between those who want the mythos respected and those pushing their own agendas and the vitriol on both extremes which is creeping increasingly towards the centre, I really don't see how the damage can be undone and the rift repaired.

Nope.

This shitfight of extremes between the fandom is not “creeping toward the centre”. It’s the stupid “If you’re not with me, you’re against me!!” mentality that those on the edges display because they don’t want to admit there is a centre, because if there is a centre, and you’re not in it, well then you’re a crazy fanboy.

The SW fandom likes to think it is the majority and that the things they think, say and do can have an impact. But I guarantee you that Disney understands that the majority of the people that rock up to a Star Wars movie don’t give a shit about whether Disney is respecting ol’ George’s original vision about Han and Chewie because they don’t know and frankly, don’t care. They haven’t spent hours reading EU books and comics that perpetuated the boring, one dimensional character that Luke was to be horrified when he threw aside his lightsaber (the cinema I was in erupted in laughter). Most of the people that see a Star Wars movie just want to be entertained by space wizards with laser swords and see space ships, wacky droids, and Stormtroopers missing whatever they’re aiming for. If tomorrow you asked 90% of the people that saw TLJ at the movies who Rian Johnson was, they wouldn’t have a clue. Hell, I consider myself a pretty decent Star Wars fan and I couldn’t even tell you the name of the guy that directed my favourite SW movie, ESB without looking it up.

I think that the assertion that Solo “failed” because of the direction Disney has taken is just utter trash. It’s not because the lead was white, it’s not because Rian Johnson ruined our lives, it’s not because Kathleen Kennedy hates SW fans. It’s because the majority of the movie goers, like me, are a bit over the frequency of Star Wars films. It’s burnout. Simple.

And no, SW cannot be compared to the MCU because they are vastly different in what they are, and what they are trying to achieve.

At least the Transformers fandom (to a degree) understands this. That while most fans think the Bay movies sucked, we understood we were not the target audience.

TL;DR: Star Wars fandom needs to extract its head from its own anus.