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  #1  
Old 5th March 2018, 12:12 PM
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Default What do you consider canonical to the G1 cartoon?

Over the years since the G1 cartoon aired there has been a ton of retconning. We've had the Beast Era, JP G1, Dreamwave and certain IDW comics, FunPub and various Q&A's all doing various things to retcon the G1 cartoon and it's many inconsistencies.

I personally consider just the G1 cartoon and Beast Wars canonical to the G1 cartoon universe. Dreamwave, G1 cartoon related IDW and FunPub are no better than fan fiction to me as the people writing them did not work on the shows. JP G1 is a separate universe in the Transformers multiverse to me just like Marvel G1. I use Q&A responses from the people that worked on the show and Hasbro themselves to better fill out my understanding of the G1 canon.

Of all the sources what do you consider canonical to the G1 cartoon?
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Old 5th March 2018, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by DELTAprime View Post
Of all the sources what do you consider canonical to the G1 cartoon?
I reckon there are some factors that if you wanna say 'G1' you cant really mess with such as:

*Optimus turning into a Truck and being a very noble character
*The Dinobots being loose cannons and Grimlock challenging authority
*The Constructicons turning into Devestator
*Soundwave & his cassettes
*Intergalactic adventures
*A contingent of Autobots and Decepticons on Earth with earth-based vehicle modes
*Megatron with his lieutenants being Soundwave, Shockwave & Starscream
*Cyberton and Unicron
*Starscream being self-serving
*Wheelie being annoying
*Civil War
*Transformation


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Dreamwave, G1 cartoon related IDW and FunPub are no better than fan fiction to me as the people writing them did not work on the shows.
I reckon Dreamwave did the least mucking about with the G1 canon and stayed pretty true to the cartoon roots.

Funpub just did what they liked really.

I think middle years of IDW were pretty good in staying true to the G1 canon. The first year they were finding their feet so could be excused for doing some odd stuff. The last 12 months has been sadly disappointing with plot lines that don't go anywhere, romances that make no sense forced upon some character whilst other characters just act contrary to their established personas (there is a difference between a character growing and a character being changed just for the hell of it), and too much conflicting info. Think they ran out of good ideas a while back to be honest - even Lost Light is beginning to lose its appeal and I count them among my favorite TF comics ever.

Do you reckon Marvel and Marvel UK are caconical? Hard to tell for me.
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  #3  
Old 5th March 2018, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DELTAprime View Post
Over the years since the G1 cartoon aired there has been a ton of retconning. We've had the Beast Era, JP G1, Dreamwave and certain IDW comics, FunPub and various Q&A's all doing various things to retcon the G1 cartoon and it's many inconsistencies.

I personally consider just the G1 cartoon and Beast Wars canonical to the G1 cartoon universe. Dreamwave, G1 cartoon related IDW and FunPub are no better than fan fiction to me as the people writing them did not work on the shows. JP G1 is a separate universe in the Transformers multiverse to me just like Marvel G1. I use Q&A responses from the people that worked on the show and Hasbro themselves to better fill out my understanding of the G1 canon.

Of all the sources what do you consider canonical to the G1 cartoon?
Yeah, pretty much agree. G1 Cartoon canon/continuity has already been and gone 30 years ago. Inconsistencies and all, I think itís not something that at this stage can be continued or added to, with the exception of show staff Q&A as you mentioned. Perhaps deleted scenes & audio if it surfaces? Thatís how we got the full list of casualties from Autobot city i think.
I mean, when Jazz was inducted into the hall of fame his bio described him as a ninja? Unless they were using poetic license G1 Jazz is not literally a ninja (he does think Ninjas are cool though). I know itís a nod to TFA but itís a bit out of place.

I tend to view G1 toy bios as canonical to both the cartoon and the marvel comics too. At the very least they add a little background depth to the characters that you wouldnít otherwise see in the cartoon.

Modern comics, even though they have a G1 setting are a completely seperate continuity as far as Iím concerned. Funpub/botcon etc is just fanfiction from a fanclub.

That said, I love G1 so Iím quite happy for TF works to continue using the continuity as a theme or springboard.
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Old 5th March 2018, 04:40 PM
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Don't forget that there's a difference between a Continuity Family and a specific Continuity. Things like Beast Wars, the G1 toy bios, Beast Machines, the G1 comics etc. are all members of the G1 Continuity Family, but they are not all part of the same Continuity per se.

Things that are officially part of the G1 cartoon canon would be:
* The G1 cartoon
* Any other material that is intended to be or explicitly stated to be part of the G1 cartoon continuity

Anything else is, at best, part of the G1 Continuity Family rather than the G1 Cartoon Continuity. And remember that we do have sub-divisions within the G1 Cartoon Continuity, such as US vs JP cartoon continuity (e.g. Rebirth vs The Headmasters etc.).





Beast Wars/Machines is a sequel to the Generation One Continuity Family rather than a sequel to any one Continuity itself. This is because BW draws from different G1 canonical sources.
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Old 5th March 2018, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by DELTAprime View Post
Of all the sources what do you consider canonical to the G1 cartoon?
To answer this specific question:
Transformers seasons 1-4
Transformers The Movie
The toy tech spec bios and expanded story bible versions as published in TF Universe.
Any TF in the cartoon named by Hasbro or Takara in later toys (Hauler, Sunstorm) has having that name.

Everything else I wouldn't treat as canon to the G1 cartoon. As to what is canon to G1: I'd answer somewhat like Goktimus did. Everything is in it's own way canon.
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Old 5th March 2018, 08:59 PM
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While there are elements between these continuities which cross over as they've obviously influenced each other, they are still definitely separate continuities due to the numerous things that would render it impossible for them to be the same continuity. Since this thread is discussing G1 cartoon continuity, let's use that as a base reference point.

Some parts of G1 toy continuity that contradicts cartoon continuity:
* Rumble is red, Frenzy is blue.
* Soundwave often blackmails the other Decepticons who all hate him.
* Shockwave is an emotionless logic fiend, not the emotional sycophant from the cartoon.
* Thundercracker is morally conflicted
* Galvatron is not Megatron
* The Sharkticons are not allied to the Quintessons but just to whoever keeps them fed.

And there are even parts that conflict with the comic continuity, such as...
* Nucleon was discovered by Optimus Prime who travelled through a black hole (Nucleon Quest Convoy!), and not retrieved by Grimlock from Hydrus Four.
* Metallikato is not a sword art. It involves attacking opponents at long range!
* Catilla is an Autobot.

Beast Wars also has a few things that conflicts with G1 cartoon continuity, such as the existence of Primus, including the introduction of the Covenant of Primus. In the G1 cartoon the Transformers were made by the Quintessons. Beast Wars also eludes to the age-old rivalry between Primus and Unicron rather than to the G1 cartoon origin where Unicron was built by an ugly space monkey. Oh, and Beast Wars Ravage's persona was based directly off the G1 toy's tech specs bio. It was Benson Yee who provided Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio with a copy of Ravage's bio which they used as a reference on writing the character. This is why Yee's name appears as "Story Consultant" in the ending credits for 'The Agenda.'
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:58 PM
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I don't see anything apart from the G1 Cartoon and movie as the canon to the cartoon. I didn't even know there were transformers comics till the late 90's.

The toy bios maybe cross over into the cartoon a bit.

I don't consider Beast wars to be part of G1 at all. The only reason the third season reveals that they are on earth and they find the ark is because of all the 'fan' feedback they received through the early internet that was pretty much 'Truk not Monkey'. I consider that entire part of the story from season 3 to be a total fan wank. When they started the show Hasbro wanted something completely removed from the then G1/G2 world of transformers. (this comes from the behind the scenes interviews and extras on the DVD's)

I agree that the Dreamwave Transformers were pretty G1 in their execution. whether it's canon or not. meh.

I consider the IDW comics to be an Alternate G1.
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Old 6th March 2018, 05:09 PM
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I don't consider Beast wars to be part of G1 at all. The only reason the third season reveals that they are on earth and they find the ark is because of all the 'fan' feedback they received through the early internet that was pretty much 'Truk not Monkey'. I consider that entire part of the story from season 3 to be a total fan wank. When they started the show Hasbro wanted something completely removed from the then G1/G2 world of transformers. (this comes from the behind the scenes interviews and extras on the DVD's)
Bwah haha! If I had been on the net back then I'm guessing I would have been one of those people!

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Ok, letís put this Beast Wars thing to rest once and for all.

Then one day in 1996 I was flicking channels and there was some talking rat who looked up to a gorilla standing next to him and called him ĎOptimusí. What. The. F*ck!? I watched a bit more and found out that THIS was the new version of Transformers and that Optimus turned into a gorilla and Megatron turned into a T-Rex and both they and their armies were all really small and had organic alt-modes now. Also they were called Maximals and Predacons instead of Autobots and Decepticons which seemed to be just a bunch of new-age bollocks.
It was blasphemy! It was bullsh*t! It was a kick in the face to everything I had loved about the franchise! I was beyond p*ssed off and ranted, usually over several beers at the Uni pub, that this was everything that was wrong with the world and they might as well start dropping the bloody nukes right now!
Of course many years later on I learned better. I learned that these were not the original Optimus and Megatron and that the series actually paid a lot of homage to G1 and was a continuation of it rather than a replacement. Then came Transmetal bodies, The Ark, appearances by Ravage etc and I got right into it. So now I have the DVD box sets, a couple of toys, some comics, a poster etc. Yeah itís not my favorite iteration of Transformers, not even in my top 5. But I can appreciate it for what it is and there are some episodes from late in S3 Iíd happily watch again and again. I really like Depthcharge and have a soft spot for Waspinator.
So there were others out there like me eh? I might not have felt so alone TF'wise if I had ever logged on to the World Wide Web instead of heading out for a drink or 3
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  #9  
Old 6th March 2018, 05:54 PM
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Since Beast Wars is official canon from Hasbro (well the Kenner division of Hasbro) and it ended up being a continuation of the G1 cartoon continuity I include it in what I consider canon. The inconsistencies in it I put down to two things: 1) a bunch of time has passed from The Rebirth to Beast Wars so many things have changed like the Quintessons were forgotten about by the likes of Kup and Hot Rod before the events of the movie the Maximals may have forgotten them and started believing in Primus. 2) It's not like the G1 cartoon was without inconsistencies, origin of the Constructicons ring a bell???.
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Old 6th March 2018, 10:19 PM
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Of course Hasbro wanted Beast Wars to distance itself from G1/G2. This is because Transformers was incredibly poor by 1995. They wanted Beast Wars to revitalise the franchise, but they were afraid that too close an affiliation with the failing Transformers brand might drag Beast Wars down. This is why the "Transformers" logo is so small on early Beast Wars packaging and is placed beneath the "Beast Wars" logo. Hasbro saw Transformers as a sinking ship, and Kenner wanted to see if they could revive it without being dragged down by the failing G2 line.

Remember that very early Beast Wars continuity was a direct sequel to G2. I'm talking about the toy canon that existed before the cartoon came out. According to this, the Maximals and Predacons were the Autobots and Decepticons rebuilt thanks to bioengineering. But it was Mainframe who wanted to shake off the shackles of G1/G2 and decided to further separate the Beast Wars cartoon. They made the decision to make the Maximals and Decepticons the descendants of the Autobots and Decepticons and to start these characters from the far future. In the very first episode we soon learn that the Cybertronians have been at peace for a long time, but that the peace wasn't as enjoyable for the underprivileged Predacons.

As time went along, yeah, the show became more closely tied with G1, but this started in Season 1. We had things like Starscream's Ghost appearing, references to Unicron and the establishment that the Maximals and Predacons were indeed descendants of the Autobots and Decepticons, who they regard as being part of their ancient history. Yes, the writers did keep in close consultation with the online fanbase and they did take a lot of advice from fans. But I think that's a strength of the show because it allowed them to better give fans what they wanted! And remember that Larry DiTillio is notorious for being a world builder. He's kinda like Tolkien in a way that he sits down and fleshes out the fictitious world that his characters inhabit. Bob Forward not so much, but DiTillio was very much a world-builder. It was even DiTillio's idea to tie Beast Wars in with G2 continuity, such as establishing the Vok as being an evolution of the Swarm etc.

And this fan relationship was important because remember that Bob Forward and Larry DiTillio knew practically NOTHING about Transformers before they started writing Beast Wars. They used their own personal spare time communicating with fans online and getting the fans to educate them about Transformers. It was the fans that provided them with information. Tfwiki didn't exist back then, they couldn't just Google^Yahoo! it. And no, their research wasn't always perfect... but at least they made the effort! Compare this with Michael Bay! Beast Wars isn't perfect, but at least the writers gave a crap about the Transformers. They wanted to tell a good story. They actually cared about what fans thought and took advice from the fans - they listened. And the BW show is chock full of references to the fandom because of the interaction between the writers and the fans! Starbase Rugby, Sub-Sector Hooks, Wonko the Sane etc. In fact, the writers even wanted Peter Cullen to make a cameo appearance as Optimus Prime, but Cullen refused due to industrial issues between American and Canadian voice actors at the time (despite Cullen being natively Canadian, but he wanted to support the American voice acting industry). They also wanted to play part of the G1 theme music but were unable to secure the rights from Sunbow. There were actually more G1 connections that the writers wanted to put into the show but were unable to. DiTillio and Forward took it upon themselves to learn about the Transformers and tried to write good Transformers stories. Michael Bay initially hung up on Steven Spielberg when he was first pitched the idea of directing a Transformers movie - he was then given a grand tour and "schooled" about Transformers by Hasbro... and despite all that support that Hasbro gave Bay which they never gave to Forward and DiTillio, Beast Wars still worked out to be a far better story than Bayformers. Beast Wars enhances and enriches G1. Bayformers kills your childhood.

Beast Wars is absolutely a sequel to the G1 Continuity Family and not directly to the G1 cartoon continuity. You could try to fansplain it like some bad fanfic, but ultimately any fansplanation would be non-canonical anyway. Beast Machines has stronger ties with the G1 cartoon, but that's not surprising considering that G1 cartoon writer Marv Wolfman wrote more episodes for BM. He did co-write one episode for Beast Wars which was "The Probe." This was the episode that made me sit-up and really take Beast Wars more seriously, as it was the first Transformers episode that I'd ever seen where the bad guys won a decisive victory! When the credits for that episode rolled, I sat back thinking, "Wait... did the good guys just LOSE?!?" It was then that I realised that the gloves were off.
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