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Thread: SPOILER THREAD - The Last Jedi

  1. #121
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    I have major issues with the story, while a lot of people who defended the movie , they don't even realize the genre of this movie tying Star Wars as a "kids movie" so all the bombs drop in space, opening air locks , flying through space with no helmet are forgiven. > It bugs me when the entire story is bad and these minor things just adds up. Secondly the movie is rated M with violence, I am not sure if these people really understand what is a kids movie and are just saying things because they have to.

    Now despite the top part, the main issues is the story. If you watch the movie and read the novelization, it makes sense. Which brings me to point one, the movie wasn't on point in telling what happen or how it happen > It just goes THIS happen, and thats it.

    Minus Luke and Snoke's death, which eliminates any further story point for the next episode, the movie does not make the audience excited about whats going to happen next. Unlike TFA, we have lots of questions, this episode just leaves me with a "ur okay" vibe.

    Luke character felt under utilise and wasted. Doesn't bug me that he died, but it feels like they didn't make use of the opportunity. Part of it was that Rian doesn't want to make Luke powerful so it doesn't over shadow Rey or other characters. But still you have a nobody who can lift rocks with hardly any training, and looks like she gets better.

    Leia not coming forward in the last scene is just wrongly thought out. No mother would not confront her own son and just run away. Not especially when your husband was just killed by your own son. We can all discuss about it, but I have no confidence in this story at all. It should have been made in such a way that the remaining group convince her not to go out of the base.
    I guarantee no mother would have walked away in regardless whether Luke turned up as a hologram and she was aware of it, take note at this point nobody knows Luke's a fake, only Leia or C3PO would know, but Kylo has no clue, how ironic. This unfortunately is a problem and I know mums will never chicken out to face their son especially this looks like a family problem.
    Seeing Kylo has feelings about killing his mum, I dont think he would kill her in front of the first order.

    The other bits, Finn < poor guy, he deserves better than Rose. I don't even want to go there. Holdo >despite criticism she doesn't know how to control fly boy, I only felt she was wasted. Captain Phasma and finn deleted scene was better. Third lesson from Luke was in the trailer but not in the movie feels cheating the audience.

    Second main fail point is how Ben become Kylo was just cut short. Luke ignites Green lightsaber, and wham....I am now Kylo Ren. Like I said there is no build up, or how he becomes Kylo, it just automatically happens. Both characters fail, one Luke deciding to kill Ben of which a character from Return of the Jedi will not even kill his own dad but wants to kill Ben over a dream which should have been shown so it makes it more believable.

    Ben on the other hand is missing the parts on how he decides to join Snoke and become who he is.

    There is a big gap and is cut short. Not to mention missing Knights of Ren. I can watch this again and again but it doesn't fit well at all in this new trilogy.

    I don't hate it, but I am not super hype with the story and it fell short. I might feel Phantom Manace as not exciting but I enjoyed Darth Maul and Obi and Qui Gon fight scene as much as what happened in the throne room. However, Snoke death just means Kylo is the main villain doesn't feels like he is someone who is going to kill Rey even though in the scene when he is fighting Luke he says he is going to kill her. Well she just saved your arse back in the throne room, and over the entire story you have made a connection and nothing of hate, including touching hands. I am not convinced Kylo has what he takes to kill Rey.

    I can go with the flow but honestly is a bad story. I watched Tomb Raider and I enjoyed it a lot more than this, and is solely because the story line has proper on point direction. Sometimes trying new things will pay off and sometimes destroying certain things could back fire. I believe everyone would have loved Star Wars to be a success, unfortunately I think there is significant numbers that felt this movie wasn't doing well as it should. Take note, before anyone starts bragging about how much this movie made, it has nothing to do with what is going forward from here. Most fans will watch this movie in order to know whether they will like or dislike, hence the sales would have been high. The next few Star Wars movies will actually show if there was indeed a damage to the brand.

    Overall, I feel Rian Johnson isn't experienced and his movie could have been told in the same way but better.
    Last edited by drifand; 3rd April 2018 at 10:12 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by drifand View Post
    I have major issues with the story, while a lot of people who defended the movie , they don't even realize the genre of this movie tying Star Wars as a "kids movie" so all the bombs drop in space, opening air locks , flying through space with no helmet are forgiven. > It bugs me when the entire story is bad and these minor things just adds up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Zed View Post
    Don't try to bring science into Star Wars, if you want that go watch Star Trek or something, space in Star Wars is all about "pew pew" and explosions.
    ...

    however I wont hold it against the movie anymore, because all Star Wars space battles are pretty silly really.
    Yeah, really this. A lot of the other movies immediately begin to fall apart if you take a THIS MAKES NO TACTICAL OR PHYSICS SENSE approach. Death Star I Attack, Battle of Hoth, Escape from Hoth, Battle of Endor, Battle of Scarif, Escape from Naboo, Battle of Geonosis all fall to the same issues.
    I'm really just here for the free food and open bar.

  3. #123
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    I would avoid ithe obvious if possible, after all I enjoyed tfa with no issues.
    However like I said these were very minor things.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post

    Thoughts...


    * Rey being a nobody:

    * Luke being the fallen hero.
    With these two, I have no problem with the idea and the themes. I particularly love the part where Luke talks about the folly of the Jedi and that the Force does not belong to them. However, I just don't like that introduction where he throws the hilt away and walks off. It just feels like too much of a slap in the face

    Rey being a nobody is fine. It is annoying though when the previous movie makes you think she isn't. The star wars saga is about the Skywalker family. The lightsabre beckons to her. The ghosts in the vision talk to her, by name. The way Maz asks "Who's the girl?" The way Han and Chewie act around her make me think they know something about her... These things absolutely deliberately make you speculate and get excited and come up with ideas and generate hype. I don't think it is a good payoff for the buildup.

  5. #125
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by philby View Post
    With these two, I have no problem with the idea and the themes. I particularly love the part where Luke talks about the folly of the Jedi and that the Force does not belong to them. However, I just don't like that introduction where he throws the hilt away and walks off. It just feels like too much of a slap in the face

    Rey being a nobody is fine. It is annoying though when the previous movie makes you think she isn't. The star wars saga is about the Skywalker family. The lightsabre beckons to her. The ghosts in the vision talk to her, by name. The way Maz asks "Who's the girl?" The way Han and Chewie act around her make me think they know something about her... These things absolutely deliberately make you speculate and get excited and come up with ideas and generate hype. I don't think it is a good payoff for the buildup.
    Hence I felt this is a bad trilogy altogether. One episode doesnt follow the other. It doesn't connect well. The two aspects are okay, I don't think they are good decisions but I am fine. This is the only trilogy that felt disjoint with no sense of real direction. Rian's story if told in a proper manner would have been fine and would have less criticism.

    Throwing the lightsaber was one thing, some didn't like the hand dusting off his shoulder since it was fake to begin with for the last scene but is a nick pick <I get it they wanted some humor.

    But here's the thing, JJ's way was to make you excited and speculate. Rian on the other hand goes nah....this is what happens without the "why" and the "hows" and ends there with no tease to the next episode. < Technically my take was to just leave Luke fall to the ground and leave the audience hanging. (sure he dies but it gives the fan that moment and they will pay to watch the next episode)

    Actually it did payoff because everyone who managed to score TFA up to 88% on rotten tomatoes went full on to watch TLJ but only to be let down because Rian failed to connect the dots. This is like one of those back in my days composition writing where they give you a part of a paragraph and you continue the story. While.....the paragraph could give it an obvious theme like a day in the zoo.....you changed it to a kidnapping episode. And this is something I felt similar happened here. Some will like it others will say thats totally out of point.

    My overall thoughts are more mainly how episode nine ends and whether it brings everyone back on to the same page of liking Star Wars rather than a fragmented brand at the moment. Till the next episode.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galvatran View Post
    ... Or you can actually buy just one DVD and re-watch the movie repeatedly to your heart's content.
    Gah, I meant to say "watched" repeatedly. Yay post long road-trip fatigued brain. (better to be posting online fatigued than driving fatigued)
    Quote Originally Posted by philby View Post
    Rey being a nobody is fine. It is annoying though when the previous movie makes you think she isn't. The star wars saga is about the Skywalker family. The lightsabre beckons to her. The ghosts in the vision talk to her, by name. The way Maz asks "Who's the girl?" The way Han and Chewie act around her make me think they know something about her... These things absolutely deliberately make you speculate and get excited and come up with ideas and generate hype. I don't think it is a good payoff for the buildup.
    See, I didn't speculate that at all, even upon watching The Force Awakens in cinemas. The fact that her parents were nobody came as no real surprise to me.

    The stories of Star Wars is basically about the Hero's Journey. However the main difference is that Rey's journey is also a quest for belonging. Luke didn't really have this element so much in his journey, his was a more straightforward adventure quest. Luke already had a family on Tatooine. He had a family and a home. He was just really bored and wasn't into following his Uncle's footsteps into becoming a moisture farmer, but he was never destitute. Owen and Beru did their best to love and raise him as a son, and even Obi-Wan Kenobi watched out for him.

    Rey was sold into slavery as a child. And while she may have earned her freedom later, she still lived as a lowly junk scavenger to scrape a living. She had no family and doesn't appear to have any friends. Her life was even worse than Anakin's. At least Anakin had his loving mother and was friends with the other slave kids. Heck, even Watto treated him better than Unkar Platt did to Rey. Anakin also wasn't searching for belonging, he left Tatooine with a keen desire to help others. If anything, it was his sense of belonging and attachment to his mother which he would later transfer to Padmé that was ultimately used by Palpatine to seduce Anakin to the Dark Side.

    If Rey's parents had been significant people and related to the Skywalkers then it would just be regurgitating what we've seen before with Anakin, Luke and even Kylo Ren. Rey offers us something new and different. And for a Force-sensitive being like Maz to look at Rey and not know who she is also suggests that she's unrelated to the Skywalkers IMO.

    People criticised the Prequels for echoing the Original Trilogy. They criticised the Force Awakens for mirroring plot elements from A New Hope. The Last Jedi gives us something completely new - and sure, it's not perfect - but fans still whinge about it. If you look at the Original Trilogy the one movie that's cited by many fans as being the best movie (Empire) also has the most unique story. No Death Stars in that film.

  7. #127
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    People criticised the Prequels for echoing the Original Trilogy. They criticised the Force Awakens for mirroring plot elements from A New Hope. The Last Jedi gives us something completely new - and sure, it's not perfect - but fans still whinge about it. If you look at the Original Trilogy the one movie that's cited by many fans as being the best movie (Empire) also has the most unique story. No Death Stars in that film.[/QUOTE]

    The differences here are great, Step back, look at rotten tomatoes score despite the criticism for The Force Awakens.

    Now look at The Last Jedi's score. < It is currently worse than The Phantom menace.

    When you point out such things but the criticism doesn't affect the majority of the audience ratings at all it shows that nobody is seriously bugged by the rehash idea. The thing is, that movie still works in the end.

    The Last Jedi as according to sources, Rian already stared writing even without watching TFA, now that is a seriously flawed script as he didn't cared about what was introduced by JJ. None of the other trilogy feels like this, people are fine with differences, not disjoint story telling. The lack of how's and why's and continue to go with remaining mysterious doesn't really work.

    There has been always an assumption that is ONLY the fans, I am not sure why they didn't take into account of general audiences who watched TFA and not the OT stuff. To be honestly , you can minus off Luke in TLJ and is still boring movie. I don't think Marvel's Infinity war is going to score like this.
    You can tell Rian isn't experience at all in making a movie.

    Its not about being fresh, is about good content that people can follow through without needing to go home and think, what just happened? That were good content in TLJ but there was just more bad stuff happening too often making the movie no longer enjoyable. Rian doesnt care what people says, he will continue with this is my movie.

    If this was a TV series, heck there isn't anything I would complain about as they will probably explain more later. This is a trilogy, and this is the only episode that every bugs me compared to any other Star Wars movie so far.

  8. #128
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    My issue with JJ and his 'Mystery Box' approach is that he's shown that he's quite happy to throw out a bunch of hooks and threads but never resolve them. Lost is a good example of this.

    I'm keen for Ep 9, mainly to find out what happens next. To me part of the brilliance of TLJ is that it was the polar opposite in style to JJ's TFA. A lot of the expository mysteries have been settled* and others put to the side**.

    What we've got now is a story to tell - the light side protege and the dark side scion are left without masters and with no guidance. Both are torn to a certain extent - we've seen Rey give over to anger in both TFA and TLJ in moments of conflict, and we've seen that Kylo is also a deeply fractured character who has been betrayed by every parental figure he's ever had. Both are now in leadership positions, as Kylo is the Supreme Leader and Rey is now the titular last Jedi.

    I'm excited to see where the story goes, which is the difference between TFA and TLJ. TFA, for all the mystery boxes it posited, never really got me keen to see what happens next.

    *Snoke, Rey's parentage, Luke's fate, what happened to Luke's Jedi Academy
    **Knights of Ren, the Legacy Saber calling to Rey, how Snoke turned Kylo
    I'm really just here for the free food and open bar.

  9. #129
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    I'm hoping that they let some random nobody kill off Ren in the ninth movie, just to really mess up expectations.

    If it were to happen it'd be after he "saved" Rey or someone else, some pseudo-heroic moment...
    Looking For: Wreckers Saga TPB Collection (with Requiem)

  10. #130
    drifand is offline Rank 6 - Dedicated Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_amtrunks View Post
    I'm hoping that they let some random nobody kill off Ren in the ninth movie, just to really mess up expectations.

    If it were to happen it'd be after he "saved" Rey or someone else, some pseudo-heroic moment...
    Hux could kill him. I think no point speculating and just watch I guess.
    If they want the Reylo approach then a new villain has to come along beating anyone and doesnt gives a damn you are dark side or light. Kylo probably looses mum and she tells him to work with Rey as dying wish and save the galaxy. But I dunno, make it even more emotional then it would be Rey discovering she has enough power to stop the villain but not enough to kill and Kylo sacrifices himself to redeem and dies, end of episode Rey is pregnant. Typical fantasy ending. lol

    JJ is to be blamed slightly for not giving direction and mystery box style. In fact the three episodes should have been written and set not wing it.

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