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Thread: The Pros & Cons of Michael Bay - discussion topic

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigTransformerTrev View Post
    Depends on the perspective. Considering what a massive money earner the TF franchise has been (the last 3 all in the top 50 grosing movies of all time with DOTM at 8 and AOE at 11) they could be considered by the studio to be a great success. Money speaks more loudly than plot-holes

    Yeah - that fragger is rich as! I wish I was earning that much money from a career going down the tubes
    Do a show in which you just do fart, poo and piss jokes with some naked women and pyrotechnics and you may not need a day job anymore

  2. #32
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    I actually had a boy in a year 8 class this morning tell me that he's never seen a TF movie and asked me if I thought they were worth watching. I said, "Do you care about the story?" and he said, "No.", so I answered, "Yes.". Another boy asked me, "What if you do care?" and I recommended that he read the comics.

    It all depends on what you're expecting or what you like. If all you want is a really thrilling visual spectacle, then the movies do deliver that in spades. If you want a good story, then maybe not. But I just wish that they could make a Transformers movie that gives us a decent story and is a visual spectacle. These two things are not mutually exclusive (e.g. Star Wars Original Trilogy!).

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    Quote Originally Posted by kup View Post
    Do a show in which you just do fart jokes with some naked women and pyrotechnics and you may not need a day job anymore
    I called that 'going out clubbing' when I was in London - noone paid me though

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    I actually had a boy in a year 8 class this morning tell me that he's never seen a TF movie and asked me if I thought they were worth watching. I said, "Do you care about the story?" and he said, "No.", so I answered, "Yes.". Another boy asked me, "What if you do care?" and I recommended that he read the comics.

    It all depends on what you're expecting or what you like. If all you want is a really thrilling visual spectacle, then the movies do deliver that in spades. If you want a good story, then maybe not. But I just wish that they could make a Transformers movie that gives us a decent story and is a visual spectacle. These two things are not mutually exclusive (e.g. Star Wars Original Trilogy!).
    I personally think the movies do deliver on decent (not great) story. They're not hard to follow, don't have complex subplots, and it's (usually) clear what characters are doing and why. I'm not really sure what constitutes 'good' or 'bad' in these instances, but at the same time, I'd think that story-based complaints should really be levelled at the writers, not Michael Bay.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy View Post
    I think people only focus on the negatives when they outweigh the positives. Like AOE.

    I'll also live with it if Bay directs the next movie. I just won't bother seeing it. After the last three horrid movies (and I truly think they were trash), I'll just go and see something good instead.
    Same here, And heres the thing, I actually like quite a few Bay movies, just not the last three TFs. Will I watch? yup, but not in the cinemas.

  6. #36
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    I just saw the new Avengers movie. The whole time I'm thinking "why can't the Transformers movies be this good?".

    Why can't we have characters with personality and identifiable traits that aren't just racial stereotypes? Why can't we have action scenes that are mapped out so that we can actually understand what the hell is happening and shot so that we can actually tell what we're looking at? Why can't we have a movie about heroic transforming robots where the stars of the movie are actually the robots instead of a bunch of human characters that seem specifically written to have absolutely no appeal?

    Michael Bay is why we can't have nice things.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yongeltron View Post
    I just saw the new Avengers movie. The whole time I'm thinking "why can't the Transformers movies be this good?".

    Why can't we have characters with personality and identifiable traits that aren't just racial stereotypes? Why can't we have action scenes that are mapped out so that we can actually understand what the hell is happening and shot so that we can actually tell what we're looking at? Why can't we have a movie about heroic transforming robots where the stars of the movie are actually the robots instead of a bunch of human characters that seem specifically written to have absolutely no appeal?

    Michael Bay is why we can't have nice things.
    I recently saw Avengers: Age of Ultron as well. It was very well done, but I'm not sure a direct comparison is fair.

    I'm not sure about your first point - I'd hesitate to call the robots' personality traits simply 'racial stereotypes', as this certainly doesn't hold true for most of the 'bots.

    Since RotF, the action scenes have been easier to follow: this could have been a response to feedback, or simply having a different director of photography. Certainly for DotM and AoE, the dual camera rigs used for 3D filming have been more 'restrictive' than Bay would like, but the upside is that shots are easy to follow.

    The humans aren't written to 'have absolutely no appeal'. They're there for the audience to relate to, since the movies' stories are told from a primarily human point of view. After all, as the first movie's tagline goes, it's "their war - our world (emphasis added)." That said, I would also like to see more 'bot screen time, but CGI environments and the characters themselves aren't cheap or easy to render to the photorealistic quality audiences expect.

    Finally, I maintain that a lot of 'problems' are issues with the script, and such criticism should be levelled at the scriptwriters, not Bay.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    I'm not sure about your first point - I'd hesitate to call the robots' personality traits simply 'racial stereotypes', as this certainly doesn't hold true for most of the 'bots.
    That is because most of the bots didn't have any personality at all.

  9. #39
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    Without reading every post ive heard this said about every sequel since RotF. I'm not going to become emotionally attached again

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    Since RotF, the action scenes have been easier to follow: this could have been a response to feedback, or simply having a different director of photography. Certainly for DotM and AoE, the dual camera rigs used for 3D filming have been more 'restrictive' than Bay would like, but the upside is that shots are easy to follow.
    I think it's because of the use of 3D and IMAX filming, which often calls of wider angle distance shots, thus making the action easier to see. But as you pointed out, I don't think it's necessarily Bay's personal preference though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    The humans aren't written to 'have absolutely no appeal'. They're there for the audience to relate to, since the movies' stories are told from a primarily human point of view. After all, as the first movie's tagline goes, it's "their war - our world (emphasis added)." That said, I would also like to see more 'bot screen time, but CGI environments and the characters themselves aren't cheap or easy to render to the photorealistic quality audiences expect.
    Yeah, but it becomes a sore point when the humans become more of a focus for the story than the Transformers. As Demonac pointed out, none of the Transformers in the film have any personality (save Optimus Prime in Age of Extinction, and even then a lot of people didn't like that personality, including Peter Cullen) -- what limited characterisation that existed in the films was more focused on the humans. The first three movies felt like "The Adventure of Sam & the US Army vs Giant Robots." The Autobots felt more like high powered accessories for the human protagonists, much like say J.A.R.V.I.S. was to Tony Stark in the Iron Man and Avengers films.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnus View Post
    Finally, I maintain that a lot of 'problems' are issues with the script, and such criticism should be levelled at the scriptwriters, not Bay.
    The director is ultimately the captain of the ship when it comes to film making, and it is the director rather than the crew who accepts acclaim or blame for the strengths and weaknesses of the film. The director has the authority to make changes to the script during filming as s/he sees fit, as well as commanding the performers and crew in bringing the script to life as a film. Similarly a Prime Minister or Premier may be the head of a government which comprises many other ministers and senators, but ultimately it is the PM or Premier who accepts ultimate ownership of that government's performance. Such is the burden of leadership.

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