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  #411  
Old 5th December 2013, 04:28 PM
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From the article in Gok's posting...

POSSIBLE SPOILERS


Quote:
Asked about the Christmas episode and the regeneration of Doctor Who, Moffat confirmed Matt was the 13th Doctor and told the Mirror: "The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.
If this is a warning of the next episode, Moffatt has now suddenly retconned the order again. If Tennant used up two regenerations, why not make mention of it before now... unless that's the point - The Doctor thought he had a life left, so didn't panick about it yet.

Still, if that other Tennant "regeneration" was something he knew was a regeneration, why keep it from the fans for the last three years?

Retconning the order twice in one year, to shuffle Smith from 11 to 13, is a bit much.

Since he wrote it into the most recent episode that Capaldi was number 13, it shows that Moffatt has only JUST retconned it for the next episode... contradicting his own work in the last episode.
If he is now making Capaldi as number 14, he missed the opportunity of the Valeyard story between the 12 & 13th Doctors.



Waitasec... I just looked at the dates of the two articles - 24th & 25th. So in the space of a day, after fan feedback/reactions to "Day of the Doctor" he changed his mind about the numbering.

On the 24th Moffatt said...

Quote:
‘If you worry about such things, and I do, then I specifically said John Hurt’s Doctor doesn’t use the title. [Matt Smith's Doctor] is in his 12th body
On the 25th Moffatt said...

Quote:
Asked about the Christmas episode and the regeneration of Doctor Who, Moffat confirmed Matt was the 13th Doctor and told the Mirror: "The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.
"So if the Doctor can never change again, what's Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas special?"

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  #412  
Old 26th December 2013, 06:52 PM
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I almost forgot the new DR Who episode tonight. (Already started on ch 2 in VIC & NSW)
Hope they don't retcon anything else, or go with the recent bit about this really being the 13th doctor.
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  #413  
Old 26th December 2013, 07:36 PM
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Can't say I liked this Christmas special. Nothing about it was Christmassy.
At least we scored a new doctor out of it.
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  #414  
Old 26th December 2013, 07:39 PM
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Considering the Doctor was just over 900 when he got his last body, then had had it for a few hundred years already before he went to Trensalor, THEN was on Trensalor for Primus-knows how many centuries (300 years minimum but prob around 5/600), he must have doubled his age just using his 13th incarnation. At least he looked after that one a while
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  #415  
Old 26th December 2013, 07:46 PM
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spoilers ahead





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spoilers ahead




The most interesting part of this episode was the basic admission that Matt Smith is indeed the Thirteenth Doctor and at the very end of his regeneration cycle. Story ended with the Time Lords granting him a new life cycle, so I guess this means he has a whole new thirteen set of lives. But what's also intriguing is what this might actually mean for the Doctor... the very end of this episode seems to suggest that this new regeneration is a lot "deeper" than previous ones - probably because it's a "reset" regeneration. The new Doctor mentions having new kidneys, so the change appears to be a lot more than just 'cosmetic.' He also seems to have lost his knowledge on piloting the Tardis, but I'm not sure if that's actual knowledge loss or post-regenerative trauma, which the Doctor has experienced before.

Ssooo... if this is a 'lifecycle restart,' does it mean that Capaldi is the New First Doctor or is he the Fourteenth Doctor?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBratron View Post
Can't say I liked this Christmas special. Nothing about it was Christmassy.
I actually preferred this episode because of that. I've never been fond of stories that see extra-terrestrial aliens 'randomly' observing human rituals... and why just Christmas? If the Doctor has come to love Earth so much that he wants to adopt human customs, why don't we also see him observing Ramadan or Eid or Passover or Kwanzaa or Diwali or Sol Invictus or the Lunar New Year et al.? Having a town called Xmas that happened to be in a permanent state of Xmas on the planet Trenzalore was already asking the audience to massively suspend disbelief. Besides, we still had that thing in the background of the Oswald's Xmas dinner being in wait. Not to mention the whole Churchy reference with that Borg-Church.
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  #416  
Old 26th December 2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Ssooo... if this is a 'lifecycle restart,' does it mean that Capaldi is the New First Doctor or is he the Fourteenth Doctor?
John Hurt became 9. Eccelston 10. Tennant 11. Smith 12.

Capaldi 13. The Gallifreians even say, "all thirteen regenerations are here..." in Day of the Doctor.
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  #417  
Old 26th December 2013, 08:13 PM
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I think you're looking a little too deeply into the new kidneys thing. Every cell in his body undergoes regeneration so he gets new everything each time.

My dislike for this special probably stems from my general dislike of Matt Smith just because he's not Eccleston or Tennant. From "fishfingers and custard" the hate was set.

Like i said. I'm glad we have a new doctor.
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  #418  
Old 26th December 2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy View Post
John Hurt became 9. Eccelston 10. Tennant 11. Smith 12.

Capaldi 13. The Gallifreians even say, "all thirteen regenerations are here..." in Day of the Doctor.
Tennant regenerated twice though, and Smith's Doctor did explicitly explain this to Clara in tonight's episode and said that he was the thirteenth and final Doctor. He was only able to regenerate at the end because after Clara pleaded with the Time Lords through the crack, they granted the Doctor a new life cycle. But if they hadn't had done that, then Smith's Doctor would've been the thirteenth and final Doctor, which is why:
1. We see the Doctor age instead of regenerating
2. We see the Doctor surrender to the Daleks at the end with what he expected to be his dying breaths, daring the Daleks to kill him. Then the back smiling crack in the sky granted him a new life cycle.

Perhaps the Time Lord who said "all thirteen regenerations are here" wasn't aware at that exact time (they were under pressure ) that Tennant's Doctor had regenerated twice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBratron View Post
I think you're looking a little too deeply into the new kidneys thing. Every cell in his body undergoes regeneration so he gets new everything each time.
Fair point. Yeah, not sure if what's happening to him is just standard post regenerative trauma or signs of a new regenerative life cycle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBratron View Post
My dislike for this special probably stems from my general dislike of Matt Smith just because he's not Eccleston or Tennant. From "fishfingers and custard" the hate was set.

Like i said. I'm glad we have a new doctor.
I don't hate Matt Smith's Doctor, but I'm not hugely fond of it either. Baker and Tennant are still by far my favourite Doctors.
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  #419  
Old 27th December 2013, 01:15 AM
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I think between writing D.o.t.D. story and T.o.f.D. story, Moffat had a new idea that contradicted something that was already filmed... and looked/sounded good for dramatic effect.
If he had already decided that Smith was the 13th, he wouldn't have included that line, or the glimps of Capaldi's eyes in DotD... as it makes no sense to include it. There was no need for it to be included, or quoted, as fans would have seen all the previous ones, and the story/plot would have been the same, without fans needing to see Capaldi as a teaser.

The thing that bugs me (now, even more than it did when I first whinged about it a few months back), is how Moffat suddenly had the Doctor age 300 years just to set up the plot device in DotD (to have enough time to do the calculations in his Sonic Screwdriver, and in his head) without him physically aging... and yet in this episode Moffat has the Doctor age 300 years (quoted in the episode) before Clara returns (stuck to the Tardis) and he is looking very aged.
So for one plot set-up of 300 years, Moffat doesn't make the Doctor age a day, but then a second plot device of 300 years, he's a withered old man who needed a walking stick.
Moffat doesn't make a good Editor, if he has to contradict himself as if it was the only option to resolve one plot device in DotD... and keeps retconning things, to the displeasure of fans who have now "lost" two regenerations. All those fan stories and theories of who the next two Doctors would be, not to mention the guidebooks, and web resources... all made useless in the space of two episodes.

As for the episode itself, it had some uncomfortable moments (unnecessary nudity plot device), and some funny bits (the Smith Doctor certainly likes making friends with former enemies)... and good wrap up of the Transalore plot device from N.o.t.D. but the timing of the story felt clumsy.
And just like the Pandorica episode, we have all these warring races together at one time and space, when most existed at differing time-periods to each other (based on when the Doctor has defeated or seemingly eradicated them). And again with the endless Daleks - they seem to be like a virus, that keeps coming back no matter how much it looks like the new Series has destroyed them.

He's also put way too much emphasis on the Time Lords being a dangerous race... as in, it is in the best interest of the universe that they remain lost, even though the Daleks are taking over, and the Time Lords are the only ones who could possibly stop them.
Bring them back, and if they really have the power of time, then prevent the Kaleds becoming Daleks in the first place (like the 4th Doctor was supposed to have done).

And one last fan-rant if a Time Lord can cause that much devastation when regenerating (according to the new Series), then why wouldn't it be used as a weapon against the Daleks. A couple Time Lords could destroy the whole fleet by sacrificing a couple of their regenerations. (and if the rest of them have the power to restart a Life-Cycle, they could just get a recharge later)
So many holes for this poor tragic fanboy...
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  #420  
Old 27th December 2013, 02:15 AM
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Stop over thinking it. It's fiction, science fiction

It's not like they're going to cancel a successful TV show
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