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  #421  
Old 27th December 2013, 07:46 AM
VERT VERT is offline
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I thought he aged this time cause he spent that time without the TARDIS. So maybe the Tardis helps with the aging. May not be true, but it helps made it work in my head.
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  #422  
Old 27th December 2013, 09:24 AM
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I liked this, not as much as the 50th special though. I did appreciate the way that all the overarching 11 Doctor storylines got pretty much neatly tied into a (timetravelling) bow.

When the wooden Cyberman appeared I thought "great this explains..." and then I paused. When was that exactly? Then I realised the mysterious wooden robot was from MTMTE (and still hasn't been answered)

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Originally Posted by VERT View Post
I thought he aged this time cause he spent that time without the TARDIS. So maybe the Tardis helps with the aging. May not be true, but it helps made it work in my head.
I had the same thought. Travelling in the Time Vortex is probably very good for your skin. The Doctor keeps running, because if he stays still, stays in one place for a long time, he grows old. He'd grown old before he stole the TARDIS afterall. The Time Vortex boost from "Bad Wolf Rose" keeps Captain Jack looking young despite him having several centuries of life too.
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  #423  
Old 27th December 2013, 09:25 AM
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The physical aging thing bugged me for the same reasons griffin mentioned . . . then I accepted it after Smith Doctor explained to Clara that he was the last regeneration. For me, when the War Doctor "broke the promise of being the Doctor," it somehow 'dropped' him from the Doctor's life cycle, but after DotD reestablished the War Doctor as the 9th, then it bumped up the regeneration count, stripping Smith Doctor of his final regeneration.

Aargh... fans shouldn't have to try to make awkward explanations... the story should make sense within itself.

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As for the episode itself, it had some uncomfortable moments (unnecessary nudity plot device), and some funny bits (the Smith Doctor certainly likes making friends with former enemies)... and good wrap up of the Transalore plot device from N.o.t.D. but the timing of the story felt clumsy.
The nudity thing was weird, but Michael Bay has desensitised me to such subtle acts of lewdness. I did quite like Handles. Poor Handles.

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And one last fan-rant if a Time Lord can cause that much devastation when regenerating (according to the new Series), then why wouldn't it be used as a weapon against the Daleks. A couple Time Lords could destroy the whole fleet by sacrificing a couple of their regenerations. (and if the rest of them have the power to restart a Life-Cycle, they could just get a recharge later)
So many holes for this poor tragic fanboy...
Not all of his regenerations were so dramatic though... perhaps it's unpredictable as to whether or not a regeneration will expel massive amounts of energy (if at all); as in one of those "individual results may vary." But something I did wonder about when I watched DotD was, during the scenes of the Daleks invading Gallifrey and shooting down Gallifreyans soldiers and civilians... why didn't any of them start regenerating? Or why didn't the Daleks use disintegration weapons? We see their bodies fall rather than disintegrating. Surely if you're at war with a species who can regenerate, then you'd use disintegration weaponry! Or at very least head-shot each fallen body?

But yeah, if some of them would've regenerated, you'd think at least a few of them would be destructive enough to damage the Dalek Fleet. Heck, send crews of Time Lord commandos to storm Dalek ships -- as they fall they'll regenerate, and some of them should do so while expelling a good amount of destructive energy - they get up again and continue fighting. Being a Time Lord soldier must be like being a soldier in a computer game because you get to freakin' respawn!

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Stop over thinking it. It's fiction, science fiction
Yeah but good scifi/fantasy should make sense in the context of it's own world - e.g. Tolkien, Bladerunner, Beast Wars etc.

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It's not like they're going to cancel a successful TV show
^This. The new Doctor Who series have become more like Michael Bay's Transformers... great when you first watch them, but things fall apart when you think about the story/plot in detail.
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  #424  
Old 27th December 2013, 09:30 AM
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Come to think of it, where did Handles come from? I tuned in at 7:30 to find it'd already started. Did he get picked up in the first five minutes or something?
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  #425  
Old 27th December 2013, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Aargh... fans shouldn't have to try to make awkward explanations... the story should make sense within itself.
The story makes sense within itself. Ask the millions watching who aren't captial F "fans" (the who know Doctor Who back to front) and it wouldn't be confusing to them. The Doctor stayed on Christmas for hundreds of years and grew old fighting a war to protect people.

If you're a fan, it also makes sense. If you're a Timelord fighting wars is not good for you, it ages you, makes you tied and your exterior appearance reflects that. The War Doctor grew old in the Time War too. The Doctor doesn't stay in one place for a long time and here's why. He grows old. Adventures in Time and Space in the TARDIS preventing/retarding ageing is not an awkward explanation... it makes sense and is not particularly inconsistent with anything we've seen? *

* Unless you count the sentence in the third paragraph on the 124th page of the tie-in novel that was published by the BBC in 1967 and is therefore canon. The sentence has a typo, it was obviously meant to be semicolon
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  #426  
Old 27th December 2013, 03:41 PM
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While I have an interest in Dr. Who and enjoy following the series, I'm by no means a fan. I should've just said "audiences" in my last post rather than "fans." Your reasoning is sound, but it wasn't apparent to me at the time that I was watching the episode. Perhaps something like a quick line to remind audiences about how the War Doctor had aged during the Time Wars might have been helpful.
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  #427  
Old 27th December 2013, 04:13 PM
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I'm not going to lie -- I didn't enjoy the Xmas special. I've only been a casual fan since the series started again, keeping abreast of most of the major stories and so forth, but something was amiss for me.

It said that the battle on and above Trenzalore wiped out every species except the Daleks, so in the future, only the Dalek's are left..?
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  #428  
Old 27th December 2013, 05:29 PM
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In this ep? The other aliens gave up and went home (the Mother Superior said) except the Daleks.
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  #429  
Old 27th December 2013, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post


The most interesting part of this episode was the basic admission that Matt Smith is indeed the Thirteenth Doctor and at the very end of his regeneration cycle. Story ended with the Time Lords granting him a new life cycle, so I guess this means he has a whole new thirteen set of lives. But what's also intriguing is what this might actually mean for the Doctor... the very end of this episode seems to suggest that this new regeneration is a lot "deeper" than previous ones - probably because it's a "reset" regeneration. The new Doctor mentions having new kidneys, so the change appears to be a lot more than just 'cosmetic.' He also seems to have lost his knowledge on piloting the Tardis, but I'm not sure if that's actual knowledge loss or post-regenerative trauma, which the Doctor has experienced before.

Ssooo... if this is a 'lifecycle restart,' does it mean that Capaldi is the New First Doctor or is he the Fourteenth Doctor?


People tend to forget that most iconic piece of Dr Who history which fully explains why he can have more than 13 regenerations. In an alternate reality the Doctor (played superbly by Rowan Atkinson) went through his last half doz regenerations in about 3 minutes. But then 'even the universe was not ready to loose the Doctor' so time and space itself gave him another regeneration -

- complete with Dalek bumps!
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  #430  
Old 27th December 2013, 09:30 PM
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In regards to the Doctor aging, he has done that before. When the Master had the 10th Doctor captive he aged him with his Laser Screwdriver by hundreds of years and he became an old man. He did it again but by a lot more and he became this little gnome thing.

They also did a time skip on the Doctor twice in Time of the Doctor. The first time they specifically mention it had been 300 years and he had aged a bit and needed a cane. The next time (when the Doctor had help from the Silence) they do not mention how long it had been. It could have been another 300 years, if not longer, which would explain why he looks so old by the end.

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He's also put way too much emphasis on the Time Lords being a dangerous race... as in, it is in the best interest of the universe that they remain lost, even though the Daleks are taking over, and the Time Lords are the only ones who could possibly stop them.
Bring them back, and if they really have the power of time, then prevent the Kaleds becoming Daleks in the first place (like the 4th Doctor was supposed to have done).
They say that the danger of the Time Lords coming back wasn't because of the Time Lords themselves, but because of the Daleks restarting the Time War with them. Even if the Time Lords came came back in peace, the Daleks would open fire and the Time War would start all over again.

That being said, it has been shown in the past that some of the Time Lords (like the High Council) are also pretty dangerous. Remember that the High Council's final plan included the destruction of all of creation (a dick move in my books). They have also tried to screw over the Doctor by rigging a trial against him and bribed the Valeyard (a being spawned from the Doctor's penultimate regeneration) with the offer of more regenerations (another dick move in my books). The High Council has shown that they are also dangerous because of their arrogance and contempt for other species.

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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
But something I did wonder about when I watched DotD was, during the scenes of the Daleks invading Gallifrey and shooting down Gallifreyans soldiers and civilians... why didn't any of them start regenerating? Or why didn't the Daleks use disintegration weapons? We see their bodies fall rather than disintegrating. Surely if you're at war with a species who can regenerate, then you'd use disintegration weaponry! Or at very least head-shot each fallen body?
It has been established that a Time Lord can have the regeneration process stopped or be killed in a particular way that prevents the process starting. The 8th Doctor died in a space ship crash. River died when both her hearts were fried. The Silence also knew they could kill a Time Lord mid-regeneration by 'killing' them again. The 5th Doctor was concerned the disease he had picked up could stop the regeneration process implying that there were diseases that could. River almost killed the Doctor with a poison that would prevent a regeneration (that being said if they knew he didn't have any left they wouldn't have had to bother.)

Since the Dalek's weapons appear to be an instant-death-beam for other species, you could assume it is the same for Time Lords, hence the no regenerations seen.
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