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Thread: The Soapbox XII: The Convenient Truth

  1. #1
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    Default The Soapbox XII: The Convenient Truth

    It's been a bit of a gap between Soapboxes. Longer than I'd like but given the current amount of work on my plate these days, any future Soapboxes will be continue to be quite sporadic too.
    __________________________________________________ _______________
    The Soapbox XII: The Convenient Truth.

    This edition of the Soapbox aims to explore one of the biggest issues in collecting: Knock-Offs (KOs). The announcement of a KO sweeps in with it a tide of fervent cries and wails. The common positions are adopted, the line in the sand is quickly drawn again. But in light of events in the past year, it seems only appropriate to cast the entire issue in a different light.

    The common arguments against KOs are:
    - Quality
    - Illegality
    - Deprivation of an opportunity to release
    - Price

    But are KOs still really a problem? In light of the mass-customisation sprees, I contend that they simply cannot. To claim otherwise is to be guilty of double standards.

    Before I continue, it is necessary to underline that this is not an assault on mass-customisation. Nor is it an justification of KOs. This is an attempt to re-examine the veracity of arguments against KOs, about the moral high ground we try to occupy on the matter. It is a moral high ground that is no longer tenable and it is something we as a fandom need to grapple with if we intend to have any credibility on the issue.

    KOs or mass-custom projects, it doesn't matter. It is wrong to adopt a moral high ground on KOs if you are buying mass customs products. It is wrong because you are depriving Hasbro/Takara, the rightful creators of the toys, an opportunity to make the product, It is wrong because you are infringing on Hasbro/Takara's intellectual property. The only line in the sand, if you wish to stay behind it that is and have a right to be angry about KOs, is to not buy mass-custom products.

    From the perspective of legality, mass-custom products are completely and utterly culpable of impinging on the intellectual property rights of Hasbro/Takara. They are no different to KOs. They take an asset belonging Hasbro/Takara and exploit it for their own interests. They deprive Hasbro/Takara of the opportunity to profit on that idea, that character that they possess the exclusive right to. For instance, had Defender been produced prior to Classics 2.0/Universe Springer, the demand for the latter would've been greatly reduced. Why would fans purchase an inferior product? There's absolutely no reason too. Even the ROTF guns being produced by iGear. They effectively compete with ROTF Buster Prime. If you can buy the guns, there is less of a need to acquire Buster Prime. Have a look at at Hasbro's recent foray into armour and add-on parts such as Hydrodive BB, Wingblade Prime and Samurai Prowl. Fundamentally, the mass-customisers are stepping into Hasbro/Takara's market space and potentially competing with their products.

    What's this? Hasbro/Takara never had the intention of producing an Ultra Magnus armour? That City Commander was complementary only, not competing with Hasbro? That doesn't hold up. Fact is, whether or not the choice to produce is made does not reside with the mass-customisers. It resides with Hasbro/Takara. You are in effect depriving Hasbro/Takara of future opportunities. Let me take this further. If City Commander had been something that did not even remotely resemble Ultra Magnus how much demand would there have been for it? Even if it was innovative and brilliant? Nowhere near as much. So fact is: the mass-customiser relies, much like the KO producer, on the intellectual property of someone else to create something of value. There is no difference.

    One other complaint that often is thrown at KOs is that they are of a cheap and poor quality. That's false. We're not talking about the ones at the $2 shops, we're talking about the G1-like ones that have everything almost down to the nearest mm. I've played with one or two of these. The Swoop specifically and I assure you that the quality is leaps and bounds above my 2 G1 Swoops. These KOs are expensive, clocking in at $50-$70 USDs. They imitate the real thing, yes. But hell, you'd be hard press to find as good quality as them. On top of that, aren't the KO producers doing what mass-customisers are? Supplying a product that Hasbro/Takara has shown a lack of willingness to provide? All these claims that they can do it cheaper are unwarranted. Fact is, if Takara released a lot of the 1st-2nd year Autobot cars like Mirage/Sunstreaker etc, they'd be close the price of current Encores. $30-$40 USD. These KO producers are not undercutting Takara/Hasbro by doing a cheap job.

    It costs them more obviously as that's why their prices are higher. It costs more to develop the mold. It costs more to produce. They don't have the economies of scale. Fact is, they are providing something that Hasbro/Takara hasn't evidenced any intention of doing. Isn't this exactly what mass-customisers are doing? And it's not like custom products are cheaper either. All the mass-custom products produced are quite pricey for what they are. Some cost more than the original toy itself. So those assertions that pricing is predatory and that it prices Takara and their reissues out of the market are wrong. Add to the kettle the fact that Encore hasn't exactly been doing spankingly well either. In that case, does it make the KO producers right as they are providing something that doesn't seem likely to be offered by Hasbro/Takara given prevailing market conditions?

    Of course not.

    The producers of KOs are fundamentally stepping all over something owned by Hasbro/Takara. Mass-customisers do the same. We should not then decry one group while glowingly praise another. It;'s grossly hypocritical. Until we cease purchasing and supporting mass-customisers, we are no longer in a tenable position to occupy a moral high ground on the matter.

    At the very best, we can argue we are morally ambigious. We can argue that we as fans are deceived by KOers and hence that's why we have every right to be angry. But that argument falls apart too easily. We are simply fans. We do not possess the right to the molds We do not possess the right to say what is an appropriate use of the intellectual property of Hasbro/Takara and what is not. We do not possess the right to claim injustice as if our rights have been infringed. Our rights are to purchase official Hasbro/Takara products. Angry or frustrated as we may be, the reality is that we cannot adopt a double standard. We cannot conclude when it fits our interests to have a mass-custom project produced and then say that a KO cannot be produced. Fundamentally, the same infringement is taking place. It's just one that is more closer to home to us as it directly disadvantages us.

    Quite frankly, I don't think any of us, myself included, will stop purchasing such products. The mass-custom projects are too good. If we as a fandom come to acknowledge and accept the production of these mass-custom projects that infringe upon the property rights of Hasbro/Takara, we have to realise that we have no longer have a moral high ground on KOs. Such a position is not tenable. But for the moment, we remain content to chastise the production of KOs while we happily accept the offerings of mass-custom producers. We do so because of the quality and strength of their offerings, offerings that can be quite pricey, offerings that we may never else have had a chance to acquire and appreciate. We obscure the truth of it though. The truth that what we clamour in fact is wrong, is an infringement of the property right's of others. That is why we ignore the truth of the matter. It's okay when it works for us one way but it's not okay when it works the other way. It's just too convenient.

    And that's what it boils down to. A convenient truth.



    The Soapbox Archive
    The Soapbox I: TFM or TFTM?
    The Soapbox II: The Problem with Jets
    The Soapbox III: Price-Matching
    The Soapbox IV: The Top 10 Characters of All-Time
    The Soapbox V: What makes a good Transformers?
    The Soapbox VI: Don't like gimmicks? Start dealing with it.
    The Soapbox VII: The Top 10 Transformers toys of 2008
    The Soapbox VIII: 2008: A Year in Review
    The Soapbox IX: Budgeting Basics
    The Soapbox X: A Prime Problem
    The Soapbox XI: Battle of the City-Formers
    Collection Count (w/ a 12.42% upsize): 3053
    New Family Members: DA-15 Jetwing Prime, DOTM Leader Ironhide, Perfect Effect Reflector, DOTM Shockwave & Skyhammer, eHobby United 3-packs
    Current Desires: Japanese BW Optimal Optimus
    The Holy Grail: Ultmetal Optimus Prime


    Visit the Wonderful World of: The Iacon City Hub-Capital Collection

  2. #2
    TheDirtyDigger Guest

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    I disagree.

  3. #3
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    good to see our conversation has been bought to the masses :P

  4. #4
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    I don't believe in G1 'authentic' knockoffs (and I'm not a fan of customs either.) When I buy a G1 toy, I want it to be the real 20something year-old vintage thing, not something people whipped up last year. It's the same as paying good money to buy a pedigree cat only to discover that it's just the offspring of a knocked-up stray from down the street, or buying a bottle of Grange Hermitage only to find that someone's stuck a fake label on cheap plonk. It's wrong.

  5. #5
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    I don't buy customs or custom accessories as a matter of course - I have on one occasion - but I also don't buy KOs. I'm not worried if it's a reissue or original, but personally, buying non-HasTak stuff just doesn't have the same allure - the "magic" is missing, if you like, when it's not the real thing.

    As for the moral high ground, I think it's fair to say that those involved in the production/distribution of the "high quality" KOs are specifically targetting Transformer collectors, and I suspect they'd have relatively high profit margins without QC, legal requirements and retail stores. If that's the case, the HasTak reissues are going to be better value for money because of that higher and lower profit margin. For me it's a moot point anyway.


    Eagerly waiting for Masterpiece Meister

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheDirtyDigger View Post
    I disagree.
    +1

  7. #7
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    Sky Shadow brings up a good point about deception/fraud. The problem with knock offs over garage kits is that they are counterfeit items which attempt to deceive consumers into thinking that they are legitimate. And certainly many collectors have been burned spending their money on KOs believing them to be legitimate.

    Garage kits like City Commander are NOT a counterfeit imitation of an existing product. The people who make them are making NO pretense that their products are manufactured under licence. It is legally dubious in terms of its visual similarity with Ultra Magnus --- but even then, only the trailer/armour, not the entire robot. I thought that you could copy a certain percentage of someone's intellectual property; like they do with parodies. And of course, the producers of these kits go to lengths to try and avoid/dodge direct affiliation with HasTak's intellectual property; such as not:
    + using the trademarked names like "Transformers," "Ultra Magnus" etc. anywhere
    + the illustration of "Classics Prime" in the comic book instruction is highly obscured and also distinctively modified from the actual toy... so it's an ambiguous looking transforming robot that bears striking similarity to Classics Optimus Prime, but it's NOT an imitation of that toy! (again, they could claim to have modified 10% of the toy's image)

    Garage kits are kinda like software and hardware that people make that just happen to be compatible with products made by companies like IBM, but not actually made by those companies. How many of us have "IBM compatible" PCs?

    What most of us consider to be "knock offs" on the other hand would be toys that attempt to deceive consumers into thinking that their counterfeits are legit. So morally speaking I think that garage kits and knock offs are two different things because one is not attempting to deceive consumers whereas the other is.

    Quote Originally Posted by STL
    Quite frankly, I don't think any of us, myself included, will stop purchasing such products.
    Not me. I don't buy any toy that's not manufactured under licence from Hasbro or Takara. So yeah, it's kinda moot for me too.

  8. #8
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    The model Kits, the weapon sets, the armour sets, Teletran 1, the trailers all results of Hasbro not making a finished product me thinks. Someone pllleeeaaassssseeeeeee make Classics Bruticus hands and feet!!!! The poor guy looks like the alligator from HOOK got to him.

    So i guess KOer's/customisers think....i'll just do it myself because HasTak cant / wont.

    If the customisers will give me what Hasbro wont then i really dont care who's profitting. Its a Sh!t thing to say but dems the cards we're dealt!
    MEGATRON Without PRIME is like Bacon without Eggs.

  9. #9
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    This is big business Vs. small business.

    Unless you study business who gives a spit?

    I will buy whatever toys I see that I like and can afford. I probably prefer the ones made by the big toy companies because they have to jump through more hoops regarding safety.

    But bootleg combiners are only $13 new... and they are all pretty shady in the quality department anyway.

    Hasbro hasn't cared about Transformers ever... it's just a business venture for them. They aren't the inventors, just the marketers.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by d*r*j
    Unless you study business who gives a spit?
    I morally object when it comes to making fraudulent counterfeits because I feel sorry for some people when they spend their money buying something that they actually believe to be a legitimate product, but have actually been deceived into buying an imitation. Like the KO Defensor with red Hot Spot (and other whacky colours), KO white Predaking and of course KO Devastator's shade of green is quite obviously different from the original (not to mention lack of chrome) etc. - people can see that these toys are pale imitations from kilometres away.

    What I find more objectionable are say KO Mini bots, cassettes, G1 Optimus Prime, Autobot cars, Dinobots etc., forgeries which are made with the intention to deceive collectors. The toy and even its packaging are impressive imitations of the original product, making it more difficult for consumers to tell if they're real or not.

    In terms of the moral argument, it all comes down to whether or not the counterfeiters are allowing consumers to make an informed choice. By lying and trying to deceive consumers you're obviously not trying to give consumers that choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by d*r*j
    Hasbro hasn't cared about Transformers ever... it's just a business venture for them. They aren't the inventors, just the marketers.
    Hasbro may not care, but as a collector _I_ do care -- I care very much if the toys that I'm collecting are legitimate or forged counterfeits.

    It's the same with being any other kind of collector (e.g.: art, currencies, stamps, antiques etc.); I think most collectors with any sense of integrity would be very discerning against imitations. Collectors are also discerning against reproductions - you only need to watch any episode of the Antiques Road Show to see appraisers spotting very authentic looking reproductions which their owners didn't even know were reproductions (because these things are just so old). I personally don't mind officially made reproductions (reissues), but I won't have a bar of any illegitimate imitation.

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