The Soapbox XII: The Convenient Truth

[STL]

Not me. I don't buy any toy that's not manufactured under licence from Hasbro or Takara. So yeah, it's kinda moot for me too.

And I very much respect. that. I can't say the same for myself though so I can't deride KO producers or mass-customisers and that's really my contention. Unless we do what you do and not participate at all, we really have no leg to stand on.

Sky Shadow brings up a good point about deception/fraud. The problem with knock offs over garage kits is that they are counterfeit items which attempt to deceive consumers into thinking that they are legitimate. And certainly many collectors have been burned spending their money on KOs believing them to be legitimate.

Garage kits like City Commander are NOT a counterfeit imitation of an existing product. The people who make them are making NO pretense that their products are manufactured under licence. It is legally dubious in terms of its visual similarity with Ultra Magnus --- but even then, only the trailer/armour, not the entire robot. I thought that you could copy a certain percentage of someone's intellectual property; like they do with parodies. And of course, the producers of these kits go to lengths to try and avoid/dodge direct affiliation with HasTak's intellectual property; such as not:
+ using the trademarked names like "Transformers," "Ultra Magnus" etc. anywhere
+ the illustration of "Classics Prime" in the comic book instruction is highly obscured and also distinctively modified from the actual toy... so it's an ambiguous looking transforming robot that bears striking similarity to Classics Optimus Prime, but it's NOT an imitation of that toy! (again, they could claim to have modified 10% of the toy's image)

Garage kits are kinda like software and hardware that people make that just happen to be compatible with products made by companies like IBM, but not actually made by those companies. How many of us have "IBM compatible" PCs?

What most of us consider to be "knock offs" on the other hand would be toys that attempt to deceive consumers into thinking that their counterfeits are legit. So morally speaking I think that garage kits and knock offs are two different things because one is not attempting to deceive consumers whereas the other is.

I think that's neither here nor there as the deception argument isn't what comes first. The infringement is. We are trying to rationalise the infringement and quality it b/c of its deception. Does it make it okay if there is an infringement of Hasbro/Takara's IP as long as its offering something that's original? Or something that is an add on? I think not. The deception isn't the primary issue. In fact, you'd argue that FansProjects comic trying to be ambiguous about the transforming figure in its comic is aimed at blurring the legal line. That's there intention and that in some shape or form is deception. Henceforth, there is ultimately no leg to stand on as at its core both offerings, KO or mass-custom project, are predicated on the infringement of IP of Hasbro/Takara.

If the customisers will give me what Hasbro wont then i really dont care who's profitting. Its a Sh!t thing to say but dems the cards we're dealt!

And tbh that's really the very heart of it. We should buy what makes us content but the only thing is we need to be wary of making moral judgements on what is right and wrong as we're not the best ones, with the exception of those who refuse to buy non-office product, in the position to say so anymore.

[Kyle]

I really feel like replying to this thread. But my opinion will be very biased so I better not...

[TheDirtyDigger]

I really feel like replying to this thread. But my opinion will be very biased so I better not...

Do it!

[STL]

Do it!

+1!

The point of the Soapbox is to get discussion on some issues of interest. So i think its only fair all views get presented and hopefully over time I amasss a bunch of Soapbox that explore a lot of interesting ideas from all vantage points.

[blackie]

I really feel like replying to this thread. But my opinion will be very biased so I better not...

your opinion is no more biased than others

[TheDirtyDigger]

and KOers, which is what his point is in total

No it's not.

[SilverDragon]

I can understand the bad feelings towards KOs, but I'm not so sure about the high-quality KOs of certain toys, such as the Dinobots. From what I've heard, their molds have been lost/damaged too much for repair, so an Encore release is not possible. So the options for people after them are originals, who may be missing bits and be in poor condition, and the aforementioned high-quality KOs.

So while it's annoying for collectors that these KOs are released, they can represent the only means of getting the toy in good condition for others.

Hasbro hasn't cared about Transformers ever... it's just a business venture for them. They aren't the inventors, just the marketers.

If they don't care about Transformers, then why do they keep making them? Why are they trying to get Animated toys released despite the fact that the franchise is essentially over? That fact alone proves that they care about Transformers.

[kup]

Oppinion by nature is biased.

[Lint]

The producers of KOs are fundamentally stepping all over something owned by Hasbro/Takara. Mass-customisers do the same. We should not then decry one group while glowingly praise another. It;'s grossly hypocritical. Until we cease purchasing and supporting mass-customisers, we are no longer in a tenable position to occupy a moral high ground on the matter.

While both infringe/violate on HasTak intellectual property. We decry one group because they commit fraud and glowingly praise the other because they manufacture products/accessories we fans have demand for. I may not speak for everyone but I do not think we deride KO's because they violate intellectual property, we deride them because as collectors we are being sold a replica product that is packaged and marketed as genuine. There is no double standard here regarding the violation of intellectual property, just the no-standard

[bruticus]

Without secondary businesses as competition, HasTakTom have a monopoly in the market and can charge whatever they want, no matter how good or bad the toy design or quality is. Having the mass customs and the KO companies around, helps keep HasTakTom in check.

Frankly, HasTakTom have been dropping the ball on TFs for quite some time. So what if fans dont buy all their products? People are voting with their wallets and Mass customs / KO companies are just listening better to peoples demands and filling the void that HasTakTom are not evening attempting to fill.

If something legit doesnt sell well then tough luck. That is the nature of retail industry. To survive, a company needs to evolve and listen to the market trends rather than be complacent and rely on brands and the ignorance of some consumers.

I really hate it when TF fans say "hey, if we dont show our support and buy it, then they may not release the next one"
umm... no... if we continue to support them on things that are crap, we are distorting the sales figures and giving the go ahead for HTT to continue producing crap.

STL's point seems pretty black and white. Mass Customs, small Customs and KO makers should all be considered together. Under the non official TF banner. It'll be hypocritical to say its ok for one and not for the other. But they all have every right to be there cos there is still a demand for it.

Even the crappy poor quality KO's have a purpose, cos not every fan around the entire world can afford the retail prices of official TFs. We just happen to be fortunate enough to even have a choice in what we buy.