View Poll Results: Worth watching?

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Thread: Avengers Endgame SPOILER discussion thread

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meister View Post
    So when Captain America goes back to Vormir to return the Soul Stone, does he have a punch on with Redskull?
    Red Skull: No takesie backsies!

    And should the Soul stone have given the loved one back? Evidently not as we don’t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted..

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum View Post
    Red Skull: No takesie backsies!

    And should the Soul stone have given the loved one back? Evidently not as we don’t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted..
    You would think so ay?, a soul for a soul?

    Admittedly, the time travel concept does leave a lot more questions than answers, but whatever, it’s a comic book movie. Still would have been fun seeing that reunion in a post credit scene
    My wife asked me why I carry a gun?, I said "Decepticons"... She laughed, I laughed, the toaster laughed, I shot the toaster. It was a good day.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum View Post
    Interesting suggestion of Thanos wishing for more resources/cleaner environments as an alternative. Sadly though I’m inclined to think that this will inevitably lead to the same problem in the future and Thanos will end up with the same problem, and multiple snaps are a no-no. Although not explored in the movies, I wonder if the Thanos snap also sends a message to the survivors to get their stuff together and build a more sustainable population.
    You could say the same about Plan A though. What's to stop the universe from becoming overpopulated again and repeating history's mistakes? Thanos needs to also broadcast a universal message to tell people WHY the snap happened so that survivors will ensure that future generations don't repeat the past. Thanos should possibly not destroy the gems but perhaps store them somewhere securely (like maybe a pocket dimension or something) as a threat against the universe should they forget the lesson that he taught them.

    I guess the problem with creating more resources and undoing environmental harm is that people might take Thanos' powers for granted; unless in this situation Thanos would broadcast a message saying that it was only possible to do it the one time, destroy the gems and ensure that survivors teach future generations not to squander their resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum View Post
    His change of mind at the climax of the movie to wipe out all sentient life was a good touch though.
    Not just wipe out but replace. So in that sense he still sees himself as a hero because while he will murder the existing population, he will replace it with a whole new smaller population who will know nothing of what had happened before. He could potentially educate this new generation from the beginning to never overpopulate and abuse natural resources; prevention becomes better than cure.

    And funnily enough, it's a philosophy that Iron Man adopts to a much smaller scale. Thanos' Plan B was sacrifice the current population to save future populations. Iron Man adapted this to sacrificing one individual (himself) to save present and future populations. But of course, Iron Man's plan utterly fails to address the environmental issues that Thanos was combating. The universe is now overpopulated again. Unless Tony Stark also simultaneously wished for the undoing of pollution and doubling of natural resources, but the movie never showed this so I'm assuming it didn't happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum View Post
    And should the Soul stone have given the loved one back? Evidently not as we don’t see Black Widow return, though she does have a solo movie being greenlighted..
    The soul given is payment for access to the soul stone so refunds aren't valid. When Black Widow died Gamora Prime doesn't come back, nor should she.

    Gamora Prime's soul was given as payment for Thanos Prime's access to the soul stone. He took the stone and used it, thus the stone is not obliged to give Thanos Prime a refund. Black Widow's soul was given as payment for Hawkeye's access to the soul stone. When the stone is used it has no obligation to refund the user. After all, the user could potentially use the soul stone for an unlimited number of times. Thanos Prime said that he destroyed the stones after using them (using the stones to wish them into oblivion); but if he hadn't then I don't see any reason why he couldn't have kept them.

    Speaking of which, I don't remember what happened to the stones after Stark used them.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Speaking of which, I don't remember what happened to the stones after Stark used them.
    Umm Hulk got Cap to return them to their original places.

    Saw it again today and enjoyed it just as much if not more. Have to say I love the credits that showcased each actor, such a fitting way to wrap it up.

  5. #15
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    A couple of thoughts:

    Ned died in the snap. Presumably 1/2 of Spiderman’s class did too. If the returning ones came back to school like Peter and Ned, that would mean that some of the characters in Homecoming are 5 years older than others, including Peter and Ned.

    I was expecting to have some clues as to whether or not Far From Home is going to be a prequel to Infinity War or set after Endgame, but if there was, I missed it. It’s been stated that it is the last film of phase 3, so I’m going with prequel.

    I thought the way they treated time travel was great. No multiverse! They went to lengths to explain that the way time travel is explained in most popular movies is not how it works here, which I think is smart.

    The “forced” woman hero fighting scene was no more contrived than when similar scenes appears in every second popular action film since forever. A similar contrivance happened in the first and second Avengers film, and no one cared. It’s just that people like to complain when these contrivances contain minorities. The complaint is a nonsense one, IMO. My wife loved it and cheered when it happened. So did I.

    Some other highlights: Fat Thor. “Bucky is alive”. “Hail Hydra”.

    Love it to bits. While I don’t think it’s the best movie ever made, it may be up there with my absolute favourites.

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  6. #16
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    Another thought: 2 of the 3 MCU TV shows they have announced for the Disney Plus channel feature characters who are dead. Prequels as well? Probably. Although I can see the possibility of both Loki and Vision returning in some fashion.

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  7. #17
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    I saw it on Wednesday and again on Thursday. Was disappointed on the first viewing but liked it more on the second.

    The biggest frustration for me was the time travel logic... I paid closer attention to what Bruce was saying on the second viewing but I'm still not sold on the logic. The death of Nebula from the past in the future, Loki taking the Cosmic Cube and escaping, and the deaths of Thanos and his crew in the future (Oh no I've gone cross-eyed) I can't see how all that doesn't create alternate realities.

    I'd have rather a reset that snapped them back to the fields of Wakanda and Thanos clicking his fingers to find the stones had gone and the Avengers defeating him there. .

    The time jump is frustrating and breaks anything to come in the cinematic universe. As M-Bot says above approximately half of Peter's classmates are now five years older than the rest. The world has spent 5 years with half the population missing and apart from nobody collecting garbage in San Francisco, lots of boats docked at the Statue of Liberty and people grieving, what impact did it have? The world should have in theory fallen apart a great deal more than this*, and that's fine when you reset the world at the end with space magic but not when you want to keep telling stories in that world. Even with everyone back it should be absolute chaos.

    [*I mean who had the time to collect Lang's stuff and put in storage and then pay someone to watch it? You'd think there'd be more important gaps to fill in the country's workforce... I know, I know don't think about it so much]

    But on the positive side I liked that time travel meant we got the return of some characters. I was particularly surprised and pleased to see the Ancient One. It's one of the things I love about Marvel Comics shared universe - of course she'd be there defending the Sanctum Sanctorum during an alien invasion.

    I do not believe there was any new footage of Natalie Portman, that was surely reused/deleted scene footage from Thor 2 right? It seems the return of the boy from Iron Man 3 at Tony's funeral was the most confusing cameo from what I'm seeing online.

    When the returned heroes arrived and Doctor Strange asked "is that everyone?" it seemed the perfect setup for another surprise appearance. For that brief moment I really thought a portal was going to open from New York and the Defenders would walk though to join the fight!

  8. #18
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    Paulbot, what you’re saying about time travel makes a lot of sense (well, more the movie perhaps!). It’s wibbly wobbly timey whimey so who knows? There were big time travel plot holes in Back to the Future too. I’ll take it.

    The chaos factor is an interesting one. Earth would not be the same, even with everyone returning.

    Maybe the Defenders were there all along? I mean, it was a massive battle, they could easily have been off camera. That’s what I am going to choose to believe.

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  9. #19
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    As far as story and plot are concerned, I'd still rate Infinity War as better. But as far as character development is concerned, Endgame is superior. I liked how it was a slow burn for the characters' journeys and in the intervening five years we got to see the Avengers doing just a lot of average every day stuff. They weren't "avenging." Steve Rogers is running a support group, Tony Stark is a husband and father etc. Okay, Clint Barton went off the deep end, but still... they were off having their own personal journeys. And the movie worked on wrapping up many of the characters' journeys that they've been on for the past 11 years.

    Take Tony Stark for example. We know that he's taken this journey from irresponsible wise-guy to a someone struggling with inner demons (alcoholism, PTSD), and his post-Sarkovia journey has been one that's focused on responsibility and accountability. That's why he supported the Accords. This is why he bonded with Spider-Man (with great power...). It's all about responsibility. And I love the argument that he had with Steve Rogers, pointing out about how he thinks that they could've prevented all this if they'd signed the Accords and allowed the Avengers to stay together and cover the Earth in a protective shield, even if it meant sacrificing some freedoms. Because what's the point of having more freedom if half the world isn't even around to enjoy it and the other half are emotionally and spiritually broken? In Endgame we see Stark go on a new chapter in his journey of responsibility as he becomes a parent. He is initially hesitant in joining the Avengers in their time heist because now he's not just responsible for his own life, he's also responsible for his daughter's life. And his final sacrifice wasn't just to the world but to ensure that his daughter had a future. And we also see this journey being inspired by Howard Stark when Howard tells him that his weakness is putting his personal interests before that of the greater good; this message inspires Tony to rise up and put the interests of the greater good before himself, and thus his sacrifice is also not only Tony Stark's legacy but Howard Stark's legacy as well.


    "You will travel far, my little Kal-El^Anthony, but we will never leave you - even in the face of our deaths. You will make my strength your own. You will see my life through your eyes, as your life will be seen through mine. The son becomes the father. And the father, the son."

    Quote Originally Posted by DaptoDog View Post
    Umm Hulk got Cap to return them to their original places.
    *facepalms self* Duuuhh! Hulk having his arm broken from his attempt at using the Infinity Stones also gives a reason why he didn't just pick the gauntlet up and wish Tony Stark back to life. And if someone as powerful and gamma radiation resistant as the Hulk can't do it odds are none of the others could (heck it nearly killed Thanos).
    Last edited by GoktimusPrime; 26th April 2019 at 08:30 PM.

  10. #20
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    Few things to say:

    1. Captain Marvel's character felt too overpowered and unnecessary, like she was only there to solve problems and then just fly off.

    2. There are a few plot holes in the film (I hope it was just 2014 Nebula being injured and not actually dying), but Thanos dying confuses me. Did he die, or was he just sent back to 2014? If he did die, does someone bring him back in the future, or in the past? This brings more questions than answers.

    3. Urgh, Fortnite

    4. Biggest complaint about the film. NO END CREDITS SCENE!!!

    On the plus side, there were some good moments during the film, and I did enjoy a few of the inside jokes and easter eggs. Would probably rate the film a 6 or 7 out of 10.


    Also I can now make memes involving Thor looking like this
    I'll update this when I'm needing help finding particular figures

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