Martial arts discussion thread

[GoktimusPrime]

So I'm looking at getting back into martial arts training after taking a god-knows-how-long hiatus. Today I Googled for martial arts schools around my local area and tonight I went and had a free trial lesson at a nearby Hapkido school. They've offered me a 2nd trial lesson too. Yay - love free stuff.

One actual question I have is to do with the pricing. This school charges $140 for registration which covers uniform, insurance, membership, a DVD showing the white belt syllabus, and some other pieces of merchandising. On top of this they charge a minimum of $50 a month if I attend lessons once a week, so the initial start up cost would be $190!!! And on top of that, they have gradings which cost $50!!

Sweet mother of Primus... now... I've come from a school that has no belts, no federation fees, no uniforms, no gradings. I just paid for an annual fee to cover insurance and then paid for lessons. The $50 for a month's worth of once-a-week lessons I think is okay, but what about the join-up fee and grading cost? Is this a reasonable price to pay or would I be ripped off?? The instructor told me that I seemed able to perform at red belt level (I don't know if I'd rate myself that highly, but it was a nice compliment ). But at any rate, I don't think they'd let me skip through the lower belts and I'd probably have to start at white belt and work (and pay) my way up to black belt level.

I asked them what would happen if I failed a grading, and I was told that there was no refund for a fail and that in event of failure I'd have to pay $50 again for another grading (it's like the bloody RTA!). But, I was told by both a black belt student and the instructor that virtually nobody fails... which made me kinda wonder what the point of grading is if everyone can pass.

My knowledge of how Hapkido schools work is like, zero... so I just wanna know, is this normal pricing and practice?

Thank you.

[5FDP]

Which Hapkido school was it Gok? Can I suggest you contact Geoff Scully - he runs a few classes around Sydney and is the best person to learn from.

[gekisou]

I know nothing about Hapkido but when I studied Taekwando in Singapore, I remembered having to buy a gi and pay for lessons.
Paid grading as well but nowhere near 50 AUD. And it included the new belt... if you passed of course.

[Bartrim]

My annual fee is around $90 and includes my grading fees. I'm entitled to two gradings a year (if I'm good enough) also I have to $30 a month for lessons going once a week or if you can make two lessons a week you pay $38.

[GoktimusPrime]

5FDP: Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to discuss this with you in further detail next time we meet up IRL if you don't mind.

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Some concerning things I experienced at the Hapkido class:

+ At one stage we were kicking at pads. One student I was training with unleashed a volley of high kicks. His posture had absolutely bugger all stability - it was like watching someone do leg swings as part of a warm-up routine. He had no grounding in his stance at all (and as such his kicking form was rather sloppy). Not surprisingly he also had little power behind his kicks. He was kicking at the pad (and even then he was barely tapping the pad's surface) rather than smashing through it. When it was my turn to kick I managed to kick the pad right off his hand several times and he had trouble holding on. After most kicks I also held my leg in the air for a while to practice my balance and correct posturing (rather than simply wildly swinging my leg to get power, in which case my kicking leg would immediately drop to the floor after contact).

+ At another stage of this exercise I was being shown how to do a hooking kick (I think that's what they called it). At first both my partner and I finished the kick in a perfectly side-on position, which I thought was fine. Then a black belt came and corrected us and told us that the correct way of doing it was to land with the leg slightly out. The black belt admitted that this position did open the groin up and exposed it... but did NOT follow up with a justification for why this was done! Wha?! I looked at my partner and told him that I thought his way made more sense than the prescribed correction given to us from the black belt. I can't imagine why one would intentionally leave one's groin (or any vulnerable body part) exposed unnecessarily... the only possible explanation I can come up with is baiting - but this wasn't explained, and there certainly wasn't a follow up move shown to us that demonstrated it as a baiting manoeuvre. Odd.

+ There was a sparring session but with two main rules: absolute non-contact and only 3 moves allowed. I have 2 issues with this - first of all, while I completely understand that the instructor is being diligent in his legal duty of care by enforcing non-contact, the problem is that students have no idea if their moves actually worked or not without any kind of tactile contact. I prefer light-contact sparring where the force of the touch is like playing Tips in the school playground (e.g. you "tip" each other with fingertips and feet etc. instead of full force punches and kicks). That way when you feel that you've been "tipped" you immediately know that you've taken a hit. Another problem for me is that my fighting style is half striking half grappling, so I rely on doing a lot of sticking and grabbing... not possible if I have absolutely no contact at all. I used light contact myself, not because I was intentionally trying to disobey instructions, but because that's just how I automatically operate in a sparring situation. Nobody got hurt though and nobody made any complaints. <shrug> The problem with only allowing 3 moves I think is quite evident... the exercise becomes more of a game. What would often happen is that everyone would move three times then STOP and reset. I'm not used to this - usually I just keep going until the fight's over. So my partner moved three times and stopped and lowered his guard while I just moved in -- he quickly picked his guard up again, but that momentary lapse in vigilance put my opponent at a serious disadvantage.

+ Another issue: and I experienced this both during the drill exercises and sparring - students liked to keep a massively long distance. For example, during one kicking-pad exercise my partner told me stand 2 metres away from him. And during sparring my partner just kept back-pedalling to avoid getting anywhere near me. It was like they were fighting with fingertips and toes and didn't want to get in any closer than that. So during the exercise I had to put an extra hop in my step to try to close the gap between me and the pad. During sparring I eventually just used 'crushing' steps to effectively pounce in and invade my opponent's personal space. Cos really, if your personal space isn't being invaded then there's no need to fight (you might as well run away). IMO the point of self defence is that your personal space is being invaded and you have little choice but to fight to protect yourself.

+ This is something that 5FDP, myself and others have griped about -- over-compliance in training. During a self-defence exercise, the attacker had to grab the defender, then the defender executed the defence, but when this happened the attacker was expected NOT to either continue attacking or attempt to counter the defence. For example, I'd grab my partner's wrist, then he'd break free of the grab and follow up with an elbow which I'd instinctively blocked. I was then told not to block the elbow. Huh?!

+ Another time I grabbed my partner's wrist, then he stuck onto my grabbing hand and turned me around to put me in a restraining hold, but I easily turned around to reposition myself so that he couldn't execute the submission hold. My partner told me that in a real fight this move would be executed so quickly that the force would dislocate my shoulder (and thus suggesting that I would never be able to outmanoeuvre him and prevent the dislocation). My partner was making the rather dangerous assumption that he's faster and more manoeuvreable than me -- which may be true, but it shouldn't be an assumption that one makes in a fight nor during training. I was taught to always assume that your opponent is your superior.

...so, I came across a lot of issues which I've seen before. Now I must say that this experience was only with 3 students at the school and their attitude may not reflect the overall attitude of the instructor or the school itself. But it was disappointing to come across the common problems of:
* poor posture/stances
* poor ability to issue power in strikes (i.e. hitting at targets instead of through them - although having poor stances contributes to this too)
* unnecessarily exposing oneself
* fighting in predictable rhythms
* over-compliance with training partners
* assuming that one's opponent is inferior

And new issues that I haven't come across before were:
* keeping too great a distance (why fight if you're in immediate danger?)
* complete lack of tactile contact
...I've heard of these issues from other people before, but this was my first time to experience it first hand.

And to be fair to this school, the non-contact sparring is only enforced with junior students. I was told that senior students had contact sparring but had to wear protective equipment - which is fair enough (again I greatly respect the fact that the instructor is diligently observing his legal duty of care).

[5FDP]

5FDP: Thanks for the feedback. I'd like to discuss this with you in further detail next time we meet up IRL if you don't mind.

Just PM'd ya

[Bartrim]

The local paper finally got around to posting an article about the last karate grading. Their is also a picture of the adult karate class with myself included. Now unfortunately Ulladulla has an extremely high ratio of tall poppies and as such I've copped alot of flak of locals in the last 48 hrs.

Why can't these people be supportive

[5FDP]

Why can't these people be supportive

Just kick their ass

[GoktimusPrime]

"How dare you achieve success!"

As long as you're enjoying what you're doing and it works for you (e.g. you are able to competently defend yourself) then who gives a hoot what others think. If I were self-conscious about what others thought about me I probably wouldn't be wearing Transformer clothes 24/7 and carrying toys with me in public. I've still got those Transformer tatts on me from Sunday... some of the people at my work (both colleagues and clients) have noticed... heh.

[Bartrim]

Just kick their ass

But isn't Martial arts supposed to be defensive? so I'd have to get them to attack me before I kick their asses