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Thread: Martial arts discussion thread

  1. #801
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    Found a video that demonstrates a proper traditional/historically authentic martial art. Cannon Fist form from Islamic Long Fist Kung Fu. This style dates back to the 10th Century and was actually used by Muslim warriors during the Crusades (1095-1291C.E.). The style travelled along the Silk Road from China to the Middle East, where its moves were honed on bloody battlefields against Crusaders before returning to China.

    A lot of demonstrations of Long Fist these days, including the photo and general description on Wikipedia , aren't authentic Long Fist, but rather the Modern Wushu version, which is effectively created as a form of martial arts based acrobatics (Wushu Long Fist video).

  2. #802
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    A lot of martial arts that people have learnt or are learning (or their children are learning) may not be nearly as authentic or traditional as one may think. I've made this basic/simple timeline.


    Thus...
    * Shaolin Kung Fu circa 1368, depending on style - may be as old as the Great Wall of China
    * Tai Chi (1750); may be as old as Westminster Bridge
    * Wing Chun Kung Fu (1700s); may be as old as the United States. Although if it's the Hong Kong variant, then it may be as ancient as the Volkswagen Kombivan (1950).
    * Judo, gi & coloured belts (1882); this art, uniform and belts are as ancient as the electric fan
    * Boxing (1908); as old as the Model T Ford
    * Brazilian Jujutsu (1909); as ancient as instant coffee
    * Kendo (1920); as traditionally Japanese as the Band Aid
    * Muay Thai/kickboxing (1920s); as ancient as bubble gum
    * Japanese Karate (1935); as traditional as radar
    * Aikido (1942); as old as the world's first electronic digital computer
    * Hapkido (1945); as ancient as the atomic bomb
    * Original Taekwondo (1957); as old as the Fortran computer programming language
    * Competitive Karate (1964); as ancient as the world's first action figure, Hasbro's G.I. Joe
    * Competitive Taekwondo (1973); as traditional as gene splicing
    * GoKanRyu Karate (1984); as old as the Transformers franchise
    * Shooto/MMA (1985); as ancient as Super Mario Bros. (on Famicom and NES; the arcade game came out in 1983, so technically Super Mario is older than Mixed Martial Arts )

  3. #803
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    Check out this video of a 90 year old practising Hung Ga Kung Fu's Tiger Crane form! Historically speaking, this art is believed to have emerged around the 17th Century (late Renaissance/early Modern)

    Note: Feudalism in Asia
    The historical periods that I've been mentioning are based on Western/European standards. Remember that feudalism ended much later in Asia. Japan, Korea and China began modernising in 1868, 1910 & 1911 respectively.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    P.S.: Shaolin Temple controversy
    Amidst the long-running decline of Shaolin becoming an ever increasingly commercialised venture, the abbot appears to have been a vewwy naughty boy.
    Last edited by GoktimusPrime; 4th August 2015 at 09:07 PM.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    ^Amendment/correction: It wasn't necessarily Taekkyon that developed in 50BCE Korea, but rather 'Subak,' which isn't a unified martial arts system per se, but the generic term for ancient Korean martial arts in general. Subak went into significant decline during the Joseon period (1392-1897), Korea's period of self-isolationism, becoming known as the "hermit kingdom." It was during this period that Subak is believed to have evolved or given rise to Taekkyon. Taekkyon in turn gave rise to Kwonbop*, as well as forms of wrestling/grappling such as Ssireum and and Japgi.

    The problem with trying to trace the history of ancient Korean martial arts is a lack of dependable existing records. In 1126, a coup against King Injong saw most of the palace being burnt, including the libraries and National Academy. Thousands of books were lost. Further records were lost during the Mongol Invasions of Korea. So while it's most likely that Taekkyon's origins pre-date the Joseon period, the earliest existing sources that explicitly mention Taekkyon only date back to 1776-1800. And if you think looking at the history of Korean martial arts is bad, it's even worse when you look at Chinese martial arts, as there was widespread destruction of books, temples etc. across China during the Cultural Revolution. Hence why I've placed the origins of Tai Chi at 1750; Tai Chi may be much older than this, but the earliest surviving records only place it at 1750.

    This is why the deliberate destruction of culture is such a terrible thing, because once it's lost, it's lost forever and we can never get it back.

    --------------------------------------------------
    *Which is just the Korean word for 'boxing' (拳法), and is known as "Chuanfa" in Chinese (another term for Kung Fu) or Kempo in Japanese. These aren't necessarily names of specific styles, but just umbrella terms for boxing (remember that the traditional definition of boxing is just any form of unarmed combat, unlike the more restrictive modern definition).

  5. #805
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    Ver 2.0 of my Martial Arts Timeline. I've corrected the Subak/Taekkyon thing as mentioned in my last post, and also added Medieval Swordsmanship. I've placed it at 1300 C.E., as that's when the oldest extant fechtbuch was printed. Also added a smaller/simpler visual timeline on the right hand margin.


  6. #806
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    Had a little personal breakthrough last night. As much as I enjoy throwing roundhouse kicks I have always struggled with technique. Watching me practice on the heavy bags last night my instructor noticed I was having difficulties. He made one little suggestion, "You are only turning your front foot 90 degrees, try turning it 180". Boom! didn't that make a difference. Doing that made my body angle back more and open my hips more, I managed hit head height for the first time and most importantly working heavy bags had been hurting my shins, that was gone. Very happy with last nights effort.
    HATRED FOR JAMES VAN DER BEEK RISING!

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    http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8503

  7. #807
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    Awesome! It's amazing how slight turns in the ankles, hips, waist etc. all help to contribute to one's power output. One common mistake I see with novices is that they focus on the part of the body that's doing the striking; in the case of punching, focusing on the fist/hand, and in the case of kicking, focusing on the foot. The actual strike is nothing more than the by-product of what the body is doing via one's stance (and how one moves through one's stance). That's something that Tai Chi really taught me, because when you're made to do your forms as super-slow speed, you're made to analyse every single little twist and turn in all of your joints and appreciate how each of them contributes to the accumulative result of the technique's end result.

    Chinese martial arts literature refers to this as the connection between "Heaven and Earth." "Earth" representing your feet/legs, and "Heaven" representing the end result of your technique, so in this case, where your kicking foot makes contact with its target. Ensuring that your "Earth" technique is correct in turn has an effect which 'ripples' all the way up to "Heaven." Or in plain language, proper footwork helps you hit harder.

  8. #808
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_kdGe8Ljc
    This video shows a young man (boy?) using Tai Chi to defend himself on a train from another young man. Initially he is hesitant to get in a fight, but being caught in a confined space with an unrelenting aggressor, he exercises his right to self defence and uses just one move to bring the attacker down and finish the fight. This is what traditional martial arts looks like. As Bushido says, "One hit one kill" -- not literally, but it just means that you end the violence with as few moves as possible. Ideally with just one move if you can, and this defender had the 'ideal fight' in that he was able to diffuse a violent situation with a single move.

    IMO this is what every martial artist should strive to achieve; to be able to defeat your opponent as quickly as possible. The fight should only last a few seconds. None of this back-and-forth tit-for-tat point scoring stuff, but rather with the simple idea of, "This ends now."

    For the first 17 seconds of the video, the attacker taunts the defender with words and shoving, but it's not until the 18th second where the attacker grabs the defender by the collar, which is where the defender then chooses to defend himself. Pay attention to the video times...

    0:18 = the attacker grabs the defender
    0:19 = the defender traps the attacker's grabbing arm
    0:20 = the defender executes a take-down manouevre
    The fight itself is finished in 3 seconds. This is how traditional martial arts work. This is nothing that's unique to Tai Chi/Kung Fu... every martial art in the world started off like this, however, not every martial arts school today teaches this. This is why I strongly prefer and recommend traditional martial arts i.e. one with a pre-WWII lineage; especially one that pre-dates modern commercialisation.

  9. #809
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    It always amuses me when people go on about martial arts uniforms like the Gi, considering that it's not even a historically traditional piece of martial arts attire. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the Gi was first used by Judoka in the late 19th Century, and later adopted by Karate and other martial arts in the early 20th Century (c. 1930s).

    Here is a colourised photo of Kendo practitioners taken during or around the Meiji Period (1868-1912). As you can see, they're pretty much just wearing a regular clothes, including short sleeve tops! And their Hakamas appear to be far less pleated and more simplistic than ones worn by modern Kendoka today.

    And here are some photos demonstrating some more traditional aspects of martial arts that I've never seen in modern Kendo.

    * "Crouching Tiger" <---check out that deep and sunken stance of the defender! A lot of Kendoka that I've seen seem to just forgo the use of proper stances.

    * "Brawling" 1, 2
    These photos are just brilliant, as it not only demonstrates the more traditional aspect of martial arts fighting that isn't bound by the more restrictive rules found in modern sports/competition fighting, but also demonstrates what has been discussed before on this thread; that close-range fighting is more advanced. Here are images of Kendo fights that have broken down to close-range grappling/wrestling, thus neutralising any effectiveness of using a sword. This was when martial arts like Kendo were being taught by actual former Samurai, such as Saitō Hajime, who was a veteran of several wars during the Late Bakumatsu Shogunate. This is more similar to the spirit in which I was taught, and unfortunately I haven't been able to find any schools around my area that still retains this traditional mindset.

  10. #810
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    Wearing a Jiu Jitsu gi is great for weight loss
    HATRED FOR JAMES VAN DER BEEK RISING!

    Still have some stuff for sale. Free pickup at Parra Fair
    http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=8503

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