View Poll Results: TF4 Movie (AOE) - worth watching?

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  • excellent, must see

    25 24.75%
  • good, see if you can

    33 32.67%
  • average

    20 19.80%
  • disappointing, avoid it

    23 22.77%
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Thread: Movie Review - Transformers 4 : Age Of Extinction (spoilers)

  1. #291
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    BigW have the DVD for $16. Got the 3D BRay version for $29.98 at JB with bonus special features disc.

  2. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    Another clip is one I recommend watching for anyone wanting to know how the current toys are designed and made... using computers and 3D printers... over a 2-3 year period. The process has certainly changed since the Hasbro tour in 2007, before 3D printers were used.
    If you get this DVD/Bluray set, or if the Australian release has these extras, make sure you watch this one.
    +1

    I found that part particularly insightful, even though it was only a mere glimpse into a very small part of the entire process, it was still very interesting. I was surprised that the colour matching was done by eye, I would've thought it was computer matched.

  3. #293
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    That would be interesting to watch (re: development process using 3D printers). I don't know if I would buy the movie just for that though. Here's hoping the clip ends up on youtube for all to see.
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  4. #294
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  5. #295
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  6. #296
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    Wow very nice!

    Think I'm gonna watch it again this weekend.

  7. #297
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    So now that Michael Bay is not expected to direct TF5, Peter Cullen has found it safe enough (to keep his job) to finally speak about how he felt the Iconically pure character of Optimus Prime was being corrupted just to tick a few scripting boxes of modern movies (that require heroes to have character flaws and be forced into being a bit too dark - like the last Superman movie, a character who also used to be scripted to never intentionally kill, even to the point of sacrificing themselves, was now scripted to kill).
    We had an ensemble cast of Autobots in the Transformers Movies that can still have all the gore and violence... but they could have still kept one as a conflicted pacifist, who always finds a way to avoid killing by just neutralising opponents, and not execute them like Demolishor was. A leader sets the standard of his followers, and if Optimus was so bloodthirsty, are the Autobots any better than Decepticons.

    Anyway, enough of my personal rant on the matter... apparently in TF4 the character of Optimus got scripted to be so dark and evil, that even Peter Cullen didn't want to say a certain line (as he used to publicly state how proud he was to be the voice of such a pure and heroic and reliable character).

    So my question is, which line might he have been talking about?
    I can think of a few, since TF2, but one in AOE seems to have been the one that crossed the line for him.
    Was it in the factory when he said he would kill them all, because the character in Transformers History had never intentionally killed a human.

    Hasbro used to maintain certain character traits of the iconic names, but when they gave Michael Bay ultimate control of the Movie franchise to buy him back for the second, it's left them with some retconning I think in the next few instalments, to bring him back to the "Superman" standard that every Optimus had before 2009.


    Sorry... I grew up during the 80s cartoon era that had a more black and white, good verses evil premise, which gave us pure (reliable) heroes. Because once they go dark intentionally, you can't trust them as a hero anymore... and modern movie/tv writers either don't realise that or aren't allowed to submit stories and heroes that aren't a little dark or psychologically flawed. There's enough main and supporting characters for that to not need all characters to be dark in some way. That's why we had Dinobots in Gen1, to see what Autobots could be like if they weren't classic heroes.

    That, and the necessity to kill off someone heroic or closely related to the hero, as if it is the only way to bring tragedy to modern stories. When all it does is alienate fans of that character, who never embrace the show/movie fully ever again.
    We saw what it did in 1986 with Transformers and GIJoe both retconning a character death because the "permanent tragedy" requirement of scripts doesn't work, when you can get the same emotional effect from "temporary tragedy" without losing fans. Same happened with the permanent loss of major characters in TFPrime, Animated and even Beast Wars... it leaves a lingering negative tinge to the rest of the series, waiting and hoping for those beloved characters to come back. The Universe is big enough to have major characters leave a show or movie in some plausible way without resorting to them being permanently killed off, if it is going to kill off a portion of your fans and support.

    Okay, rant over... for now.

  8. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by griffin View Post
    So now that Michael Bay is not expected to direct TF5, Peter Cullen has found it safe enough (to keep his job) to finally speak about how he felt the Iconically pure character of Optimus Prime was being corrupted just to tick a few scripting boxes of modern movies (that require heroes to have character flaws and be forced into being a bit too dark - like the last Superman movie, a character who also used to be scripted to never intentionally kill, even to the point of sacrificing themselves, was now scripted to kill).
    We had an ensemble cast of Autobots in the Transformers Movies that can still have all the gore and violence... but they could have still kept one as a conflicted pacifist, who always finds a way to avoid killing by just neutralising opponents, and not execute them like Demolishor was. A leader sets the standard of his followers, and if Optimus was so bloodthirsty, are the Autobots any better than Decepticons.

    Anyway, enough of my personal rant on the matter... apparently in TF4 the character of Optimus got scripted to be so dark and evil, that even Peter Cullen didn't want to say a certain line (as he used to publicly state how proud he was to be the voice of such a pure and heroic and reliable character).

    So my question is, which line might he have been talking about?
    I can think of a few, since TF2, but one in AOE seems to have been the one that crossed the line for him.
    Was it in the factory when he said he would kill them all, because the character in Transformers History had never intentionally killed a human.

    Hasbro used to maintain certain character traits of the iconic names, but when they gave Michael Bay ultimate control of the Movie franchise to buy him back for the second, it's left them with some retconning I think in the next few instalments, to bring him back to the "Superman" standard that every Optimus had before 2009.


    Sorry... I grew up during the 80s cartoon era that had a more black and white, good verses evil premise, which gave us pure (reliable) heroes. Because once they go dark intentionally, you can't trust them as a hero anymore... and modern movie/tv writers either don't realise that or aren't allowed to submit stories and heroes that aren't a little dark or psychologically flawed. There's enough main and supporting characters for that to not need all characters to be dark in some way. That's why we had Dinobots in Gen1, to see what Autobots could be like if they weren't classic heroes.

    That, and the necessity to kill off someone heroic or closely related to the hero, as if it is the only way to bring tragedy to modern stories. When all it does is alienate fans of that character, who never embrace the show/movie fully ever again.
    We saw what it did in 1986 with Transformers and GIJoe both retconning a character death because the "permanent tragedy" requirement of scripts doesn't work, when you can get the same emotional effect from "temporary tragedy" without losing fans. Same happened with the permanent loss of major characters in TFPrime, Animated and even Beast Wars... it leaves a lingering negative tinge to the rest of the series, waiting and hoping for those beloved characters to come back. The Universe is big enough to have major characters leave a show or movie in some plausible way without resorting to them being permanently killed off, if it is going to kill off a portion of your fans and support.

    Okay, rant over... for now.
    Ive got a book Transformers And Philosophy (by Shock & Swan) - in it they talk about Optimus Prime being one of the most uncorrcuptable and iconic heroes of the modern fiction age at length - it makes for good reading.

    And I must admit with a certain level of embarrassment that when I read Optimus' bio on the box of the 25th Annniversary reissue of the G1 figure I actually choked up a little - it was moving how they described this noble character.

    But the live action movies are such a departure from the normal TF lore than in order to personally enjoy them more I've squared off in my mind the continuity as it's own thing - otherwise I would just geewuner rant about all the problems ad nauseum. And as such I have found it to be a quite interesting departure from the norm for Optimus to get dark. A bit like the Shattered Glass universe. It's a different take on the character and it has been interesting to see how from TF2 onwards he has gotten darker and more callous.

    Is it how I would write the character for the movies? Hells no! But its certainly an interesting change of pace.

    Like you, I'm very interested to hear what the line refused to say actually is.

    (Oh, and I must admit that it was fun to exclaim to my friend when seeing the last movie "F*ck me! Prime just offed Fraiser! )

  9. #299
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    Optimus Prime is meant to be one who doesn't believe that the ends can justify the means and is supposed to be above things like vengeance. Movieverse Optimus Prime is arguably a darker character than Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader. When Anakin massacred the Tuskens, he confessed his actions to Padmé and collapsed in tears, consumed by the guilt and shame of what he had done. When Anakin beheaded Count Dooku, he immediately said, "I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way." And even after he killed Mace Windu, Anakin fell to his knees and cried, "What have I done?!" And this thought would continue to resonate within Vader's conscience, no matter how hard he tried to bury it and deny it to himself; something which Luke was able to see ("Your thoughts betray you, Father. I feel the good in you, the conflict."), and ultimately it was this continual shame/guilt (i.e. latent sense of morality) that allow Luke to restore Anakin to the Light Side of the Force.

    But Movieverse Optimus never shows any sign of any guilt or remorse for the questionable words or actions, rather, his attitude is more akin to Chief Justice Tyrest's attitude of, "Fully deserved."
    Executes Demolishor? Fully deserved.
    Vows to kill the human responsible for hunting Autobots? Fully deserved.
    Of course, Tyrest was intentionally written to be dark character - along with Pharma and Star Sabre, they represent the three pillars of societal corruption (law, medicine and religion respectively). Optimus Prime is not meant to be that kind of character.

    Hypothetical rebuttal> "But this is a different universe; different Optimus Prime. Get over your G1 bias."
    Okay, fine. But if they're going to make Optimus Prime a dark character, then just bloody do it and be consistent about it. IDW have similarly taken what was originally a noble and altruistic character in Star Sabre, and made him a dark and evil one. But they did it from the get go and never pretended that he was anything else than a religious extremist nut job. Movieverse Optimus Prime, on the other hand, is presented to be the noble and altruistic character akin to his G1 namesake. The first movie very clearly established this, especially with the way that he was willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the AllSpark (whereas Sam used it to kill Megatron, and even then, Prime cried, "No, Sam!"). The Optimus Prime that we see in Revenge of the Fallen and Age of Extinction is a far cry from the Optimus Prime that we saw in TF1.

  10. #300
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    From here:
    Quote Originally Posted by dsphatlite View Post
    Would love to know why but if you can reply in the thread that you mentioned.

    Clearly the G1 mythos should of stayed through the character in your opinions.

    I detached myself from the different universes. Each Prime is different they just share the name.
    Hence why I said...
    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Hypothetical rebuttal> "But this is a different universe; different Optimus Prime. Get over your G1 bias."
    Okay, fine. But if they're going to make Optimus Prime a dark character, then just bloody do it and be consistent about it. IDW have similarly taken what was originally a noble and altruistic character in Star Sabre, and made him a dark and evil one. But they did it from the get go and never pretended that he was anything else than a religious extremist nut job. Movieverse Optimus Prime, on the other hand, is presented to be the noble and altruistic character akin to his G1 namesake. The first movie very clearly established this, especially with the way that he was willing to sacrifice himself to destroy the AllSpark (whereas Sam used it to kill Megatron, and even then, Prime cried, "No, Sam!"). The Optimus Prime that we see in Revenge of the Fallen and Age of Extinction is a far cry from the Optimus Prime that we saw in TF1.

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