The Universal Counting Method

[jaydisc]

Rubbish I say. I doth hereby refer to the so-called Universal Counting Method as "Gok's Counting Method". I will hereby participate in any counting surveys with my own system.

[Tiby]

Rubbish I say. I doth hereby refer to the so-called Universal Counting Method as "Gok's Counting Method". I will hereby participate in any counting surveys with my own system.

Many of us use a different method for counting our own collections when tracking them personally, such as merchandise etc, but statistically it makes sense to have a single method.

Having said that, it it not fair to rubbish Gok for this. He is simply keeper of the system that was voted in. That's like blaming me for the MP05 debacle because I have chosen to do something about it.

[jaydisc]

I'm simply blaming the fact that it's locked and has no ability for [democratic] review. I believe that at least ONE review AFTER having the system in place allows for greater finesse and polish.

[dirge]

Rubbish I say. I doth hereby refer to the so-called Universal Counting Method as "Gok's Counting Method". I will hereby participate in any counting surveys with my own system.

Jay, please respect the original posting asking others not to start a debate over this system.

Goktimus has gone to the trouble of creating this system so that we can make meaningful direct comparisons between collections. And he had valid reasons for surveying the fan communities to arrive at this method:

+ There are fans out there who count knockoffs
+ Some fans will count junkers than 95% wouldn't count, which distorts comparisons significantly in some cases
+ There are fans who count Devastator as seven toys (as silly as that may seem to many of us) and others who count him as one since they bought the set as a set

Personally, I think some of the criteria used in this counting method are bad (I don't believe doubles should count, for example), but with so many grey areas what with minor variations and stuff like Heroes of Cybertron, I can see the value in such a system.

I don't use this system myself when putting together a number for my own collection - which actually means I end up with a lower figures because I'm skipping variants and doubles - but if I want to do a meaningful comparison, I understand that a common system has to be used. For this reason I respect both the intention and the effort of Goktimus, and I'd ask you to do the same

In terms of it being locked, you need to remember that if the system is open, it will be endlessly challenged by people with different views, and no consensus will ever be reached. Goktimus is merely drawing a line in the sand, and while that line may be arbitrary, it's a necessary part of the system. Keep in mind that Goktimus _does_ revisit his polling of collection sizes, and for this to work, he needs to be able to have a fixed comparison between surveys. When new lines come out - or new grey ares (Revoltech is an example), he does go back to the community to get a democratic opinion.

[iceburn]

i think we can just treat this as a guideline and to many new fans, this might work out for them. For others, we might agree or disagree to some of the rulez but the final decision is always ours.

[STL]

Does it all really matter? Most important part is you like what you collect, yeah? Me.

[jaydisc]

I don't know why I've let myself get bothered over this. Must be childhood remnants of my lack of respect for authority. As long as the system lacks democratic review, I will be forced to use my own method. If you don't want to count my poll responses, don't. I'm not competing anyway.

[GoktimusPrime]

It only matters when you want to make a direct comparison and participate in the annual survey. Outside of that you can use whatever counting method you want.

If you want to participate in direct comparisons with other people, you need to be using a common system - whether it's the Universal Counting Method or not - you all have to agree on the same set of rules. When it comes to the annual survey, it has already been decided that we will use the Universal Counting Method. I proposed the formulation of the UCM back in 2005/6 for the express purpose of conducting annual surveys!

If you really object to using the UCM in any way, shape or form, fine... don't participate in the annual survey. Because in order to participate in the annual survey, you must follow the same counting rules as everyone else otherwise it's just plain unfair.

Suggesting that you want to participate in the annual survey but you don't want to follow the same rules as everyone else is akin to saying that you want to play a sport but you refuse to follow the rules of that sport or that you want to participate in a certain community, but you refuse to speak the common language of that community.

For example, let's face it - English is a royally messed up language. Words are often not spelt the way that they sound and for virtually every rule in this stupid language there are plenty of exceptions. e.g.:
+ English word order is supposed to be Subject-Verb-Object, such as in "I have toys"; but then you have sentences like "What toys do you have?" which is Object-Subject-Verb! Buh?
+ In the word "go" g = /g/, in "giraffe" g = /dz/, in "through" g is silent, in "cough" g = /f/ and in "genre" g = /j/ - confused yet?
+ "i before e except after c" except for beige, cleidoic, codeine, conscience, deify, deity, deign, dreidel, eider, eight, either, feign, feint, feisty, foreign, forfeit, freight, gleisation, gneiss, greige, greisen, heifer, heigh-ho, height, heinous, heir, heist, leitmotiv, neigh, neighbor, neither, peignoir, prescient, rein, science, seiche, seidel, seine, seismic, seize, sheik, society, sovereign, surfeit, teiid, veil, vein, weight, weir and weird. Good rule, eh?

...but despite the cumbersome/awkward nature of English, if you choose to actively participate in an English-speaking community then you must accept the fact that you have to speak English. If you don't want to speak English, then don't actively participate in an English-speaking community! You don't have to speak the language of a community in order to function in it.

Likewise you don't have to use the Universal Counting Method as a Transformer collector. You only have to use it if you choose to participate in the annual survey, and it's recommended (but with no obligation) that you use it in other direct comparisons.

If you don't want to ever participate in the survey or make direct comparisons with other collectors - that's fine. Don't use the UCM.

As long as the system lacks democratic review, I will be forced to use my own method.

As dirge and I have explained to you, the system needs be locked in order for it to work for comparisons between surveys. If we opened it up for regular revision then it wouldn't work!

If you don't want to count my poll responses, don't. I'm not competing anyway.

That would be the best thing for you to do (or not do) if you really object to this system that strongly.

Don't like a particular sport? Don't play it. Don't like a particular language? Don't speak it. Don't like the Universal Counting Method for the annual Transformer collection count survey? Don't participate in the survey.

That's fine.

---------------------------------------------

And that is the last I will say about that.

As I said at the beginning of this thread, the rationale for this system is not open to debate. The opportunity for debating all this was available in the polls and will be available in future polls. But what has been set is set and there's nothing to be gained by any further debating about it.

This thread was made as a handy reference for the UCM rules - NOT to debate its validity.

People are welcome to ask questions about understanding the rules - such as Borgeman's question about Article19 - that's fine. You are welcome to ask questions about clarification of rules, but not to debate about its validity. We've already had those debates.

Let's all get back on topic now!

Thank you.

[roller]

lets ask hasbro how to count, surely they must have a counting system to record their past products?


why ami typing this?

[GoktimusPrime]

Hasbro's counting method is basically like a stock inventory listing. Great if you're a distributor or retailer, but I don't think it's all that ideal for collectors.