Much Ado About Pretenders

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it'd be an interesting idea and it would hearken back to what Hasbro had originally intended for Pretenders to be back in 1988. IDW's Carnivac is a good example of this. Even Bayformers gave us something like this with Alice (although the completely kibble-free robot mode was utter rubbish). I wouldn't mind seeing G1 Pretender characters revisited where they actually transform into their Pretender shells as alt modes. The Pretender Beasts would probably be the most marketable ones to start off with, because they'd essentially be BW TFs with G1 robot modes (like Carnivac). The more adventurous options would be other Pretenders. Would people want to buy robots that transform into humans or monsters? Of course we would, but would the general market be able to absorb it? I'm just not sure if it's commercially viable.

The Pretender Beasts should be doable though - if toys like Generations Waspinator, Rhinox and BW MPs can sell, then I see no reason why a Generations Carnivac, Catilla, Chainclaw or Snarler wouldn't sell. Also, their original alt modes were just robotic versions of their outer shells. Doing non-Pretender Beasts as modern toys might be trickier because what about their original alt modes? e.g. Generations Cloudburst might transform from robot to Femaxian-Queen attracting human, but what about his jet mode? Bludgeon may transform from a robot to patriotically Dutch samurai Skeletor, but what about his tank mode? Previous modern toy versions of Pretenders have just focused on a vehicular alt mode with the robot mode being inspired by the Pretender shell or original robot mode, but never both. Movieverse Bludgeon is a good example of this - the first toy, a redeco of Wreckage, was a homage to Bludgeon's G1 robot mode. The Pretender shell form was completely ignored. The Revenge of the Fallen figure had a tank mode inspired by Bludgeon's G1 alt mode, but the robot mode was purely based on the Pretender shell. The original robot mode was completely ignored. BotCon 2015's Oilmaster's robots are redecos of Generations Swerve and Flanker with a new Pretender shell - the robots do not transform into the shell.

What I'm saying is that we've never seen a G1 Pretender inspired contemporary Transformer that could triple-change between robot, alt mode and shell. I don't know if this is even possible, at least not without invariably compromising the toy's design/engineering. The closest we got was arguably Thunderwing (and thus by extension Black Shadow) - the robot was based on the shell which could transform into the shell's alt mode, but it also came with a detachable drone which resembled the original robot's alt mode (but doesn't transform into a small robot).

[Verno]

Groundbreaker, Sky High and Splashdown have bestial motifs on their Pretender shell chests -- a tiger, bird and shark respectively. This could be played upon, so their outer bodies are organic beasts like Carnivac and Catilla.

[GoktimusPrime]

That's just their armour, not the actual shell itself. Carnivac is an armoured wolf, but the kind of Transformer your talking about would have him transform into a regular wolf without the additional armaments attached. If we were to follow the same line with human-shelled Pretenders, then I think that they should have realistic looking human alt modes, with or without the armour. I guess being armoured space marines (motif or not) would be more marketable than wearing civvies, but I would personally like to see them wearing just regular clothes. This might work better for the Japanese market where the Autobot Pretenders frequently moved about in normal human clothing. You could even gang mould Cloudburst/Phoenix with two variant alt mode heads - one with a G1 toy-accurate hair cut, which was also seen in the G1 comics, and the other with the wannabe-Wolverine haircut, as seen in the Masterforce animated series. Hasbro's Landmine could be a brunette while TakaraTOMY's Lander would be blonde with glasses sculpted on. The sculpting for Waverider/Diver's hair would be the same for both markets, but blonde for Hasbro and brunette for TakaraTOMY.

Doing the second wave Pretenders (Groundbreaker, Sky High, Splashdown, Iguanus, Bugly & Finback) would be tricky as those figures were never released in Japan, so it would be entirely up to Hasbro to want to release those figures. Not impossible though, after all, Bludgeon and Thunderwing were also never released in Japan and we've had contemporary versions of those characters (and TakaraTOMY even released them for their market!). And Hasbro did release Generations Black Shadow for their markets (albeit not here). The Pretender Beasts would also be a risk as they're also Hasbro-exclusive characters.

But yeah, I don't think that the human-Pretenders should be compromised by having their shell modes becoming bestial. I think that if we are to have new Pretender Transformer where the alt modes are based on the shells, then do it properly or not at all. Having said that, making them transform from a humanoid robot to a humanoid human would provide significant challenges. It might be easier to stick with updating the inner robot and forget the shell (similar to what happened with the first Movieverse Bludgeon). I wouldn't want say Splashdown to transform into a robotic shark though. Even though his Pretender shell armour had a shark motif, that was never any of his modes. Bludgeon's Pretender shell has a skull motif, but I wouldn't want to see a Bludgeon toy transform into a giant skull.

[Verno]

That's just their armour, not the actual shell itself. Carnivac is an armoured wolf, but the kind of Transformer your talking about would have him transform into a regular wolf without the additional armaments attached.

You may have missed it but I did mention that the Pretender Beasts would come with (for lack of a better word) Targetmaster partners that form pieces reminiscent of his armor which attach to the beast-mode, thus giving an organic Carnivac more of a likeness to his original toy.

[Demonac]

Wasn't having a shell in which to hide the transformer the whole point of pretenders?
Otherwise, we seem to be heading into animorph, or Star Wars Transformers territory.

[UltimateGalvatron]

After much discussion this idea is starting to sound worse to me.

I'd rather the Pretenders retained having their original robot and vehicle modes and still came with a seperate shell, except have both the inner robot and the shell come with modern articulation.

I don't want them to basically just become slightly different Beast Wars Transformers with Titans Return slapped on to fit it in to Prime Wars.

[GoktimusPrime]

Wasn't having a shell in which to hide the transformer the whole point of pretenders?
Otherwise, we seem to be heading into animorph, or Star Wars Transformers territory.

That became the idea of Pretenders.

I imagine the discussion between Hasbro and Takara to have gone down something like this...
Hasbro: "Let's make Transformers that transform into people!"
Takara: "That is literally the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Oh sorry, I mean, that sounds great, but it's not feasible. How about we just regular vehicular Transformers but we can stick them inside human-like shells?"
Hasbro: "Okay, do that!"


I can't remember if the Pretenders were exactly shelf warmers, but they definitely didn't fly off shelves either. They were plentiful and easy to find everywhere (unlike say, Wave 2 Titans Return Deluxes which appear to be scarcer than hen's teeth, even in Japan).

After much discussion this idea is starting to sound worse to me.

I'd rather the Pretenders retained having their original robot and vehicle modes and still came with a seperate shell, except have both the inner robot and the shell come with modern articulation.

I don't want them to basically just become slightly different Beast Wars Transformers with Titans Return slapped on to fit it in to Prime Wars.

^Agreed.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Would people want to buy robots that transform into humans? Of course we would

I wouldn't - I find the concept quite boring. Give me giant robots that turn into tanks and jets and trains and space cruisers! A robot that turns into a guy that looks like he serves burgers or cuts hair - dull as dishwater. Frag all playability compared to a robot that turns into a sports car or helicopter too.

That said, I would have bought an ROTF 'Alice' figure if they had made one

[Paulbot]

Wasn't having a shell in which to hide the transformer the whole point of pretenders?
Otherwise, we seem to be heading into animorph, or Star Wars Transformers territory.

I had the same thought. When you start talking about Transformers turning into humans, all I can picture are Animoprhs! Sure toy technology has come along and I guess Marvel crossovers would be closer to what we'd see today.

ROTF Bludgeon, Generations Thunderwing, Skullgrin were all along the line of what I'd want to see for Pretenders, have a robot mode that's inspired by the shell and a vehicle mode based on the inner robot. Landmine, Cloudburst, Waverider would all work this way for me.

But the other way around for the Pretender Beasts and Pretender Monsters would be fine. Maybe some like Iquanus and Bugly turning from robots to beasts too.

The idea of a weapon/armour/partner makes me think of the MiniCons from Power Core Combiners.

[Verno]

The idea of a weapon/armour/partner makes me think of the MiniCons from Power Core Combiners.

Not Targetmasters or Powermasters?