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  #71  
Old 20th December 2016, 07:15 PM
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klystron klystron is offline
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Originally Posted by SuspectimusPrime View Post
The standard Deathtroopers were spot on with their aim against the rebels on the beach - sharpshooting them even when they were hidden behind crates. However the two senior-level Deathtroopers with pauldrons who were with Krennic were killed too easily by Cassian and Jyn when those two were awkwardly hanging by one arm each?

snip...
Thats coz Cassian is a bad-ass!



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I've yet to find a cool piece of Rogue One merchandise to buy.
Me too, but I'm leaning toward the Black Series 6" K-2SO. Looks pretty nice.
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  #72  
Old 22nd December 2016, 12:23 AM
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Thoughts about Rogue One after a second viewing.

Trust is the recurring motif in this story. The entire movie is hinged around the issue of trust. This is a really important recurring theme throughout the story - the loss and building of trust, and how this ultimately links to hope, which is the motif of Episode IV.

I really don't mind Saw Gerrera, and upon a second viewing I think that he's even more important to the plot than some may give him credit for. As I mentioned before, his initial importance is in taking care of Jyn after her mother was killed and father abducted by the Imperials. If Saw had never found her, she'd probably perish in that hole. Jyn's separation and reunion with Saw are all really important parts of her character development. Her separation sowed seeds of despair in Jyn. She is betrayed by a close friend and loses trust in everything and everyone. She stops believing in the Rebel cause and relinquishes herself to keep "looking down" (as she puts it) in order to ignore the injustices caused by the Empire in the galaxy.

Saw himself has also stopped trusting people, becoming suspicious to the point of paranoia. He has a tentacle monster to interrogate people with (even when he doesn't really need to), cos I guess it's cheaper/easier than acquiring an IT-O interrogation droid (as favoured by the Empire). I do agree that the tentacle monster scene is rather pointless to the plot though, but I guess it's there to show just how distrustful Saw had become. And it's a quick scene (unlike say, the Pod Race), so I don't dislike it per se (but I don't really like it either).

Saw, as well as other characters, also serve to show how there's a lot of mistrust among the Rebels. This shows how bad a state the Rebels have become and why they've had so much trouble toppling the Empire before. Importantly, it also shows how desperate the Rebellion was for hope.

But the sacrifice that Saw and his Rebels planted the seeds of trust among Rebels in the Alliance. Seeds which would sprout during the Battle of Scarif, because there are moments in the battle where we hear Alliance Rebels cry out that they were avenging their comrades in Jehda. The Rebel Commandos who are deployed on the beach from the U-Wing all call out, "FOR JEHDA!" as they run into battle, and I'm sure I heard X-Wing pilots say something similar too. There was a feeling of 'we cannot save our friends from Jehda, but we can damn sure avenge them.' The Rebels became a unified force (no pun intended) by the end of Rogue One, and it was this unity which finally posed a threat to the Empire.

Saw also represents a turning point for Jyn, because it is during her reunion with Saw that Jyn turns from being apathetic towards the cause to being passionate. So without that reunion, Jyn would have never undergone that character development and her father's message would probably never have left Jehda. As I said before, I really useless character is one where the plot of a story would not change if you removed that character; like Jar Jar Binks in Episode I or Daniel Witwicky in the entire 3rd Season of Transformers G1. As annoying as Jar Jar is, his appearance in Episode II was actually crucial, because it was Senator Binks who helped Palpatine obtain greater power in the Senate and pass the legislation to activate the Clone Army - and yes - the great joke is that Jar Jar helped to kick start the Empire. Jar Jar's appearance in Episode III is useless, but he only appeared as a background character in one scene (i.e. the procession at Padmé's funeral) - but importantly he's not detracting from the story (because he has no dialogue ), so it's okay.

Another cool thing (which I did notice in my first viewing) is that Galen and his family wore the same "Gi" style of clothing as Luke, Uncle Owen and Obi-Wan Kenobi in A New Hope. I find this important because when I was a kid, I saw the Gi as being the way that commoners would dress in the Star Wars galaxy. Luke and Owen were moisture farmers - as were Galen and Lyra. I assumed that Obi-Wan Kenobi dressed in a Gi because he was disguising himself as a peasant. The robe that he wore was also worn by Owen and Jawas -- I thought it was something to protect beings from heat and sand. So I liked how Rogue One went back to the Original Trilogy's original concept for the Gi... a commoner's dress, not Jedi uniform. One thing I was looking forward to seeing in the Prequels was how the Jedi originally dressed. Would it look something like Luke Skywalker's costume in Return of the Jedi? Nope... it was the same Gi and robe as worn by freakin' moisture farmers. Whaa-?! My fansplanation is that Jedi dress as commoners as a mark of humility. But this doesn't explain why Obi-Wan didn't ditch his robes after going into exile... surely he'd dress as a different kind of commoner or something else unassuming if the Empire are explicitly hunting Jedi. Heck, you'd think that a lot of commoners would stop wearing the Gi and change to something else just to avoid being mistaken for Jedi!

I counted the number of times "hope" was said in the film. Six times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuspectimusPrime View Post
The standard Deathtroopers were spot on with their aim against the rebels on the beach - sharpshooting them even when they were hidden behind crates. However the two senior-level Deathtroopers with pauldrons who were with Krennic were killed too easily by Cassian and Jyn when those two were awkwardly hanging by one arm each?
From a RPG/miniature gaming POV I see it in two ways:
1/ Cassian and Jyn won initiative. They got to shoot first, forcing the Imperials to be on the defensive. This was because they saw the door opening and knew that the Imperials were on the other side whereas the Imperials had no idea where Cassian and Jyn were, so the Rebels had the element of surprise.
2/ Line of sight. Cassian and Jyn were under cover, the Deathtroopers were exposed.

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Originally Posted by SuspectimusPrime View Post
I would have liked to see the Deathtroopers use more creative methods of earning their namesake.
Creative but arguably less realistic. The Riot Control Trooper in The Force Awakens went into a melee fight with FN-2187 really because he was all butthurt over seeing a fellow Stormtrooper back stab the First Order. He allowed emotions to cloud his judgement, because logic dictates that guns are better than swords. Duh. But the Riot Control Stormtrooper probably wanted the personal satisfaction of beating him up. From a story-telling POV the scene demonstrates that although Finn has some skill with a lightsabre, it's certainly not perfect. The Stormtrooper actually defeats Finn and would've killed him if Han Solo hadn't intervened. And of course, we see Finn get pwned later on by Kylo Ren. The Death Troopers have no personal feelings about the Rebels, and at an elite level you'd expect them to be able to emotionally detach themselves and focus on completing the mission at hand. The Death Troopers did their fair share of death-dealing... they just did it by shooting because that makes more sense than trying to kill someone via melee! (re: the scene in Indiana Jones where Indy just shoots the dude with the swords )

Besides, if you want to start picking on names, the Death Star and Starkiller Base never destroyed a star. Neither did Star Destroyers. The only Imperial weapon that did that was the now non-canonical Sun Crusher.

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Originally Posted by DaptoDog View Post
Really liked the CGI on Tarkin, thought it was much more realistic than Leia. I think his age lent it to look more authentic.
Bear in mind that Tarkin was always shown in darker settings than Leia. The Death Star has black interiors and the black backdrop of space, as well as the dark colours on Tarkin's uniform vs the white interior of the Tantive IV and Leia's white costume. I noticed that Tarkin never stood right next to Krennic, he always spoke with him from a distance. Could it be that they didn't want Krennic's white uniform to further illuminate Tarkin's face? They also had Leia continually looking out of the window into space rather than turning around to face Captain Antilles... could it be so that the light from the corridor would continue to come from behind her?

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Originally Posted by DaptoDog View Post
The final scenes were great, really cool how they tied it into A New Hope.
Agreed! This video shows how smoothly the ending of Rogue One blends into the beginning of A New Hope. With other Star Wars movies, there are periods of years or even decades between them, but here it feels like only hours or minutes have elapsed between Rogue One and A New Hope! The Devastator is literally in hot pursuit of the Tantive IV!

And when I watch the opening scene in A New Hope, there are now lines which hold greater meaning after seeing Rogue One including...
* "There'll be no escape for the Princess this time."
* "You passed directly through a restricted system. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you.

And Vader's anger is more justified now. When we see Captain Antilles and Leia answer Vader's questions, it becomes apparent that they're trolling the Sith Lord, and trolling him hard. Like when Bart Simpson is caught red-handed doing something wrong and he goes, "I didn't do it."
e.g.
Cpt. Antilles: "We intercepted no transmissions. This is a consular ship. We're on a diplomatic mission."
Leia: "I don't know what you're talking about. I'm a member of the Imperial Senate on a diplomatic mission to Alderaan..."

Diplomatic mission? Really?! Vader freakin' saw you at the Battle of Scarif -- he nearly boarded the Tantive IV before it broke off from the Rebel flagship. Vader knows that the plans were aboard that Corvette and the Rebels knew it too! They might as well have told Vader that they were just waiting for a mate. It's that weak an excuse! Cos before Rogue One, Vader's killing of Captain Antilles seemed to make no sense because dead men can't talk. Vader's mission is to get those plans, surely torturing and interrogating prisoners makes more sense than killing them. But now it makes sense! Vader's asked Antilles a direct question, and Antilles' smart alec reply is basically the verbal equivalent of giving Vader the finger and telling him to go fornicate himself. Little wonder why Vader killed him. He couldn't kill Leia because she's a Senator -- even holding her was tactically dangerous, as pointed out to Vader by an Imperial officer (re: generating sympathy for the Rebellion in the Senate). Vader may well have killed Leia too if not for the diplomatic/political repercussions.
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  #73  
Old 22nd December 2016, 06:25 AM
Krayt Krayt is offline
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Creative but arguably less realistic. The Riot Control Trooper in The Force Awakens went into a melee fight with FN-2187 really because he was all butthurt over seeing a fellow Stormtrooper back stab the First Order. He allowed emotions to cloud his judgement, because logic dictates that guns are better than swords. Duh. But the Riot Control Stormtrooper probably wanted the personal satisfaction of beating him up. From a story-telling POV the scene demonstrates that although Finn has some skill with a lightsabre, it's certainly not perfect. The Stormtrooper actually defeats Finn and would've killed him if Han Solo hadn't intervened. And of course, we see Finn get pwned later on by Kylo Ren. The Death Troopers have no personal feelings about the Rebels, and at an elite level you'd expect them to be able to emotionally detach themselves and focus on completing the mission at hand. The Death Troopers did their fair share of death-dealing... they just did it by shooting because that makes more sense than trying to kill someone via melee! (re: the scene in Indiana Jones where Indy just shoots the dude with the swords )
You make it sound like Finn fought a random stormtrooper.... FN-2199 was squad mate with Finn from Training to Jakku.... That s why it's such a personal thread in the story
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  #74  
Old 22nd December 2016, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
I counted the number of times "hope" was said in the film. Six times.
Actually, I think it was five... twice in the scene where Jyn is reunited with Saw, twice during the Alliance council meeting, and once from Leia.
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  #75  
Old 22nd December 2016, 11:58 AM
Krayt Krayt is offline
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Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Actually, I think it was five... twice in the scene where Jyn is reunited with Saw, twice during the Alliance council meeting, and once from Leia.
Cassian said the line to Jyn first
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  #76  
Old 22nd December 2016, 03:37 PM
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One of the things I love about this film is how it contextualises a lot of what comes after it the Original Trilogy films.
[*]The Tantive IV being over Tatooine at the start of ANH isn't a coincidence anymore - Leia was swinging past to pick up Obi Wan on her way to Alderaan.
it wasn't a coincidence back then, she says in the hologram message that her mission to bring him to alderaan has failed, so she was always going there to get him.

Last edited by philby; 22nd December 2016 at 08:05 PM.
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  #77  
Old 22nd December 2016, 08:04 PM
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I went to a midnight screening in Melb then again on the weekend with my dad, I loved it Like someone already mentioned, it had a more visceral feel to some of the action scenes which was really intense for star wars and i think worked really well. Initially i wasn't sure how to take Tarkin, it was probably distracting a bit in the first showing but then was better the 2nd time.

I really enjoyed it and will definitely be keen to watch it again with some mates.

I am very curious if they will release deleted scenes and talk about the changes, because there were quite a few differences to some of the previews.

I missed seeing Chopper but did catch the Ghost a few times from Rebels. Someone thought they saw a lasat like Zeb but I missed that as well.

I loved the detail in the ship explosions and collisions too, that was really cool.

Overall really enjoyed it and a worthy addition to the franchise!
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  #78  
Old 25th December 2016, 09:36 PM
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Come to think of it...
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  #79  
Old 29th December 2016, 10:37 PM
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Darth Vader vs Rebels in Rogue One - in 16-bit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYMDphGTcg
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  #80  
Old 30th December 2016, 01:50 AM
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Darth Vader vs Rebels in Rogue One - in 16-bit!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biYMDphGTcg
All your Hope are belong to us.
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