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  #31  
Old 10th August 2018, 03:15 PM
Galvatran Galvatran is offline
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We like to believe we can think like a toddler or young kid but the fact is most of us here aren't. Being a large toy company Hasbro spends much time & $$ conducting consumer research with kids as well as price sensitivity analysis with buyers (mums & dads). Sure they can get it wrong. But you know what they say about opinions & butt holes.
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  #32  
Old 10th August 2018, 08:58 PM
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Years ago the Animated line was released and it proved to be the most kiddie-friendly in appearance than any that came before it. It proved you can have a simplistic, comical looking Transformer that can also have a challenging and involved level of transformation, so as to appeal to both children and adults alike. The Animated series deserves praise for being so balanced.

Then began the devolution, starting with RID15. A series that is crap throughout most of it's classes due to it's simpler transformations but the warrior/deluxe class is it's strength with gems like Jazz, Scorponok/Paralon, Fracture, Bisk/Thermidor and Megatronus/Blastwave/Bludgeon among others.

Now we have Cyberverse, whose designs are worthy of a McDonalds outlet while being a rip off and disregards the adult collectors at the same time.

Conclusion: If RID15 is the poor man's Animated then Cyberverse is the rock bottom man's version.
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  #33  
Old 10th August 2018, 11:11 PM
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I think that the reason these toys are getting this much negative response is the G1 style. There's a blind eye given to the Rescue Bot toys by a lot of the adult collectors because those "are for kids" (in other words "not me").

There's a blind eye given to the RID toys for the same reason (despite a good cartoon and some great Warrior class toys). This is evident by how little discussion on this board revolves around those lines (despite some of us collecting them).

If these new Cyberverse toys were based on a new season of the RID cartoon instead of the holy G1 cartoon people would surely be looking right past these.

The 6+ thing? These toys have packaging for multiple countries so probably the most restrictive country (which ever that is) sets the minimum.

I was going to make the same point as Galvatran, these toys are market tested and based on market research for the audience they see.

I agree the price tag on the warriors is too much for me. I saw Shockwave, the one I actually want to buy, for $32, $35, and $42 across three stores - but for $20 I would have got him.

Looking across other toy lines (outside collector aimed lines like Black Series and Marvel Legends) the Warrior class toys look on par with the other "boy toys" out there.
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  #34  
Old 10th August 2018, 11:35 PM
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I actually think the rescue boys toys are awesome. They all have gimmicks to their transformations and are quick and easy for their age bracket. The colour schemes are nice and they toys themselves make it clear as to what parts are meant to do what in the 1-5 steps of transformation. As a bonus they feel tough and Iíve seen the rough play they can handle first hand.

From all reports of people holding these and using them, it really does seem like the quality and design aspects ate incredibly low, which is where I see the real loss of value for money. Why spend $40 on what looks like and reviews as a knock off toy when for the same money I can get a 300 piece LEGO set, 3 Star Wars figures, a nerf blaster bigger than my head or any number of 6+ month old console games?
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  #35  
Old 11th August 2018, 09:07 AM
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Rescue Bots are also no worse than pre-school targeted TF toys that have come before them
e.g. First Transformers, 1-2-3 Transformers, Go-Go-Go-Bots/TF Big Adventures etc.
And IMO Rescue Bots are actually the best of these lines (as someone who has collected from each of them ). So in that context I think they're great.

But in the context of toys aimed at school aged kids, which most Transformer lines are (including G1 etc. -- think about how old you were when you got your first Transformer) I find Cyberverse just indefensible. Even compared to more recent lines that have stylistically "kiddified" (for lack of a better term) such as Animated, Prime and RiD Ver 2, I find that Cyberverse still falls distinctively short.

Voyager TFPRiD Megatron was a toy that I gave quite a negative review on, and I still think is a lacklustre toy... but comparing him with Ultimate Class Megatron last night and suddenly Voyager TFPRiD Megatron looks good. Only that the Ultimate Megatron was about $15 dearer! These Cyberverse toys are making toys that I previously considered bad look good!

For those who haven't noticed yet, my reviews for the Cyberverse Ultimate leaders are here:
Optimus Prime
Megatron
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  #36  
Old 11th August 2018, 08:29 PM
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As someone with a kid that has a bunch of Rescue Bots and has given them hell since he was old enough to hold them, they are built tough. Not a single one has come anywhere near breaking after years of toddler play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galvatran View Post
We like to believe we can think like a toddler or young kid but the fact is most of us here aren't. Being a large toy company Hasbro spends much time & $$ conducting consumer research with kids as well as price sensitivity analysis with buyers (mums & dads). Sure they can get it wrong. But you know what they say about opinions & butt holes.
As someone who actually has a toddler/young kid aged son who loves transformers, who also has cousins that are both older and younger than him that play with his transformers, I see a lot of people getting it wrong about ďWhat Kids WantĒ. I canít speak for every kid but from observing my own son, who is almost 4 and can already transform my G1 Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus, he doesnít care how complicated the transformation is. He puts his Rescue Bots right next to G1 Bots and in there with the multitude of other transformers from movieverse to generations and plays happily. He doesnít care how articulated they are, how gappy the bot/alt modes are, how much paint is on them, whether they sacrificed articulation for a crappy gimmick. His favourite of mine at the moment is G1 Flywheels! Flywheels, the most bricky of G1 bricks there ever was!!! Heís happy just to have a toy that looks like the character on the show he loves or that just looks cool. His imagination does the rest

I agree with Galvatran, Hasbro have market tested this stuff. Itís not aimed at us. I would speculate that the G1 styling was to catch the eye of parents that grew up with Transformers and might be more inclined to then purchase one for their child. It would also be cheaper than designing a whole new line from scratch. That pricing is horrendous though. It most definitely should not be excused.
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  #37  
Old 11th August 2018, 10:15 PM
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But as you said, Rescue Bots have heft. Cyberverse toys on the other hand have notably less mass compared to the RiD ver 2 toys.
e.g.
Robots In Disguise Warrior Class Optimus Prime (without his weapon) is 91g vs Cyberverse Warrior Shockwave who's only 68g. So despite a $10 hike in price, Cyberverse is giving us figures with about 23g less toy. That's not incredibly good bang for your buck.

If they want to give us cheaper and simpler toys, fine... so bring the price down.
As I said in my Cyberverse Ultimate Optimus Prime review, this toy wouldn't be so bad if it retailed at about $40 instead of $60. The Cyberverse Warrior toys wouldn't be so bad if they were about $20 instead of $35.

But quite frankly, if they're going to charge us the current price of a Deluxe POTP for a Warrior Cyberverse then I'd expect a similar standard of quality. If they're going to price the Ultimates at above Voyager Class (and just $10 shy of Ultra Class), then I'd damn well expect the standard to be somewhere in between those two Classes. If you want to pitch the toys lower, fine... but lower the price.

This is why I never much got into the Fast Action Battlers when they came out in 2007. Simplified versions of Movieformers at the same price of a Deluxe. Remember how badly FAB Brawl pegwarmed? That toy retailed for the same RRP as Deluxe Brawl, and Deluxe Brawl sold really well while FAB Brawl gathered dust. Even worse was the redeco "Desert Attack FAB Brawl." Even though the FABs were aimed a younger audience, it's clear that kids preferred the Deluxe because they want toys that engage them at a higher level.

Think about when Transformers started waning in popularity. It was generally around the time where more less-engaging toys that were more gimmick-laden became more numerous. We know that it was dwindling toy sales that prompted Hasbro to cancel the US G1 cartoon after only 3 episodes into Season Four. And we know that after Action Masters came along in 1990 toy sales took a further plunge resulting in the cancellation of Transformers in America as well as the cancellation of the G1 comics in 1991. 2 years later and G1 was dead.

And we know that Transformers came back when Beast Wars came along. And Beast Wars had some really simple Transformers too -- just look at the Flipchangers. They were literally 1-Step Changers. But they weren't condescending in tone like 1-Step Changers today. The figures themselves weren't compromised by the Flipchange gimmick. 1-Step Changers tend to be bricks in robot mode, whereas the Flipchangers all have no fewer than 9 points of articulation. Plus weapon storage. All for what would be the equivalent of about $15 by today's standard. Compare this with the Ultimate Class leaders in Cyberverse. They have decent leg articulation, but from waist up it's a G1-level of articulation -- i.e. any articulation is incidental as necessitated by the transformation as opposed to being explicitly engineered for the sake of poseability. Ultimate Class Optimus Prime has articulated arms for the same reason as to why the original G1 Optimus Prime has articulated arms -- it's because of the way the arms transform. Okay, granted the inclusion of elbows and head articulation is purposeful and that's what makes him a loads better toy than Megatron which sorely lacks these things (but would be massively improved with them). But really, while this was fine by 1980s standards it's pretty poor for 2018. Not for sixty freaking dollars.

And remember when Robots In Disguise first hit shelves in 2001? This was months before the cartoon started airing, so kids had no exposure to the show yet -- but the toys were FLYING off shelves as soon as they came out! And those toys weren't simplistic - these were the toys that would go on to inspire Binaltech and Masterpiece. But kids love them! These kids are now young adults and I've met a few of them who are collectors now, who keenly remember playing with RID as their childhood toys in the same way that we remember G1 as our childhood figures.

Anyway, time will tell. Let's see if these toys start selling like hot cakes or if they linger as dust-gathering shelfwarmers. Let's see if the kids who are playing with Cyberverse today will become fans for life or if they'll just end up... qu... qui... quitting Transformers (that was hard to say... I need to wash my mouth out).
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  #38  
Old 11th August 2018, 10:39 PM
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It's like Nestle incrementally reducing the size of the Kit Kat bars and thinking they could keep charging the same amount as before.

Our criticisms may be harsh sometimes, but someone has to speak up, or else the companies producing these things will continue pushing the envelope to see how much they can get away with for the sake of boosting profit. We want them to be profitable, but not that way.
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  #39  
Old 11th August 2018, 10:50 PM
Galvatran Galvatran is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
Let's see if the kids who are playing with Cyberverse today will become fans for life or if they'll just end up... qu... qui... quitting Transformers (that was hard to say... I need to wash my mouth out).
Commentary like this does absolutely nothing to define the Line's success or failure. It's a throw away line that rears it's head ever so often in the fandom. I can't speak for Hasbro but I'm pretty sure they set themselves targets for success: Net sales value, profit, distribution, brand invigoration, etc. It would not involve putting this Line on a pedestal.
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  #40  
Old 12th August 2018, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galvatran View Post
Commentary like this does absolutely nothing to define the Line's success or failure. It's a throw away line that rears it's head ever so often in the fandom. I can't speak for Hasbro but I'm pretty sure they set themselves targets for success: Net sales value, profit, distribution, brand invigoration, etc. It would not involve putting this Line on a pedestal.
Yep. One line that my son also collects is Paw Patrol. To set the scene, think of the most horribly executed transformers line you have collected. I guarantee that Paw Patrol toys are worse. For a rrp of $20, you get a phoned in figure, likeness is good but thatís where it ends. The most basic 5 point articulation that most the time doesnít work due to the gummy plastic used. Vehicles are just hunks of plastic on wheels with crappy gimmicks that donít work, let alone simulate the capabilities of that particular vehicle in the show. And the absolute biggest fail of the whole line: the dogs donít peg in to their vehicles. They look great sitting there but the second you move one of them the dog just falls out. This makes play incredibly frustrating for all involved. So overall, Based on that information alone, most would call the line a failure. Yet they fly off the shelves. My kid loves them. If one is released in the US but not here, eBay prices skyrocket. When he sees a new one, he wants it without fail and with complete disregard to the crappiness of all before it.

The point is, there are numerous examples of crappy toy lines being successful. Itís the marketing that sells the toys. Remember, you donít sell the sausage, you sell the sizzle.
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