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Thread: Transformers questions by newbies, and not-so-newbies

  1. #4501
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    A Spark can't exist outside a living body
    - Rhinox, Optimal Situation.

    A structure is a term used to define the body of a Transformer. Without a spark or a personality component, the structure is a lifeless shell.
    - TFWiki

    So, which is it? Is a Transformers' body alive, or is it simply a lifeless shell?

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  2. #4502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    So, which is it? Is a Transformers' body alive, or is it simply a lifeless shell?
    A Transformer's body is a lifeless shell unless:
    + It is imbued with a sentient mind, e.g. G1 cartoon Dinobots
    + It is imbued with a "life energy" (Spark), e.g. G1 comics (life essence), G1 cartoon Aerialbots & Stunticons, BW/BM Sparks etc.

    Without either a sentient mind and/or life energy, then a Transformer's body is nothing more than a shell. And likewise that mind or Spark can be transferred out of that shell -- look at the G1 cartoon episode "Only Human" where the minds of Ultra Magnus, Rodimus Prime, Arcee and Springer were removed from their bodies by COBRA Commander and then inadvertently placed into human bodies. The human villains were able to operate their lifeless bodies and the humanised Autobots had absolutely no control over their original bodies.

    In the G1 Comics when Optimus Prime was killed his mind was backed up onto a floppy disk (lolz) by the human programmer Ethan Zachary, and for a long time Optimus Prime existed purely as an entity in cyberspace believing that he was nothing more than an online entity created by Zachary. It was only later when Goldbug retrieved the diskette that a new Powermaster body was built on Nebulos and his mind transferred to that body that Optimus Prime fully returned.

    There have also been numerous cases where Transformer bodies have acted independently in the absence of a sentient mind or life energy; such as in "Only Human". Another example was when Shockwave created a fake head of Optimus Prime and arranged for it to fall into the hands of the Autobots - the Autobots then attached the head onto Optimus Prime's body, who then started attacking the Autobots. Later on when Buster and Jetfire came along with Optimus Prime's real head, Prime was able to remotely command his body to rip off the fake head and replace it with the real one, thus Optimus Prime stopped attacking the Autobots and turned against the Decepticons ("Prime Time!").

    Although one interesting case is G1 Zombie Starscream ("Race with the Devil"), because at the time, Starscream had been destroyed after absorbing the powers of the Underbase, but it became driven not by any conscious mind or "spark", but by the residual energy of the Underbase which the body had soaked up prior and at the moment of Starscream's destruction. The interesting thing here is that although Zombie Starscream was lifeless and mindless, because Starscream had undertaken a murderous rampage slaughtering all Transformers indiscriminately, his shell had somehow maintained some form of "body memory" and the lifeless/mindless Zombie Starscream continued on an indiscriminate kill-fest. The story made it clear that Zombie Starscream was not driven by the conscious mind or spark of Starscream, but by residual Underbase energy - because we saw the Backstreet make a connection with Zombie Starscream by appealing to its core consciousness which was the Underbase and pleaded for it to regain emotional control (which inadvertently allowed Hi-Test and Throttle to siphon the Underbase energies from Zombie Starscream, effectively "killing" the undead entity and reducing it to a pile of scrap).

    And of course, in the G1 cartoon we saw Starscream's Ghost existing independently of the Matrix. Then again, Beast Wars explained this with their "immortal Spark" retcon, so Starscream is probably a very special case. Perhaps it was the unusual nature of Starscream's Spark that allowed his will to continue surviving in his remains which drove Zombie Starscream to continue his murderous rampage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    A Spark can't exist outside a living body
    - Rhinox, Optimal Situation.
    Generally I would say that this is true, although there have been times when we've seen Sparks exist very briefly outside of a body. e.g. In "Code of Hero" when Dinobot died we see his Spark rise and ascend (presumably to return to the Matrix dimension - similar to the idea of ascension into Heaven or whatever). In Beast Machines we see Sparks being extracted and occasionally surviving for very brief moments of time outside of a body - like when Nightscream chased down Blackarachnia's disembodied Spark.

    But I would assume that a Spark cannot survived for any substantial sustained period of time outside of a body -- even when Vehicons captured Sparks, they placed them inside of a vessel and eventually returned them to Megatron where he held them in a massive container. At the end of Beast Machines when the Sparks were released, we see them fly off into the horizon, then hundreds of Cybertronians running along -- so presumably those Sparks must have been united (reunited?) with bodies. Exactly why this happened instead of the Sparks flying off aimlessly I'm not entirely sure -- probably because all of Cybertron was being reformatted at the time and the Oracle/Vector Sigma guided those Sparks to bodies? I dunno... stupid Beast Machines ending...

  3. #4503
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    Perhaps I should have italisised Rhinox's comment. "Outside a living body". I'm not interested in the spark, but what makes a 'living' Transformer body.

    In these post-BW days with the retconned issue of Sparks, you would have to dismiss the 'sentient mind' argument, would you not?

    We've had CNA thrown up in G2, is the metal that makes up a Transformer body somehow alive?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    We've had CNA thrown up in G2, is the metal that makes up a Transformer body somehow alive?
    That's an interesting question - and I think one place we can look for an answer to this is the live action movieverse, where the Transformers' bodies are comprised of "living" nanotechnology, much like cells in an organic body. Look at Scorponok's tail - long after it had been severed from Scorponok's body it was still able to move and respond to stimuli. Also the ability for Transformers to self-scan and change their alt modes would probably require nanoscopic restructuring of their bodies. Even externally assisted acquisition of alt modes may require nanoscopic restructuring anyway; in the G1 comics we see the Ark physically rebuilding Transformers after having scanned new alt modes, but in the G1 cartoon we see Teletraan-1 cover the Transformers in an orange light which somehow "magically" imbued them with their new alt modes. Nanotech may be a feasible explanation for this.

    The protoforms seen in Beast Wars and Animated appear to have some kind of nanotech - so it's possible that they are comprised of "living" nanotech sized mechanical "cells." In the G1 cartoon the Transformers were portrayed as having "self repair systems" where presumably over time minor wounds could be self-healed... exactly how this work was never explained, but nanotechnology could be possible. Also in the episode "Microbots" when Perceptor, Brawn and Bumblebee were shrunken down and infiltrated Megatron's body, they encountered several microscopic (nanoscopic?) entities that were described as being like Megatron's immune system.

    So I guess a "living" body is one where the nanoscopic "CNA" is still in tact and able to house a living spark. Once the body is no longer structurally sound then that body "dies" and thus it is no longer physically fit to continue sustaining a living spark inside it. It certainly appears that Transformers perish when they sustain physical wounds where their body is longer physically capable of sustaining their life functions (Spark)... Dinobot is a visibly notable example of this; in "Code of Hero" we see his body being gradually sustaining increasing amounts of injury -- his internal computer insisting that he shut down into stasis lock to preserve his Spark, but Dinobot ordered override so that he could use what remaining physical energy he had left to continue fighting rather than preserving his Spark. In the end, even when the other Maximals arrived, they knew that his body was already dying beyond the point of repair, and all they could do was say their goodbyes to Dinobot.

    Likewise in "Transformers The Movie" when Perceptor says, "I fear the wounds are fatal," - it would have been a similar situation and all the Autobots could do was listen to Optimus Prime give his final words and pass the Matrix onto Ultra Magnus (who should have been Autobot leader and not that whiny Hot Rod kid!! ).

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    Who are the most loyal Decepticons? Loyal to Megatron.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    Who are the most loyal Decepticons? Loyal to Megatron.
    Lugnut, Ravage, cartoon Shockwave and Soundwave. I'm sure there are others but they're all the ones that spring to mind atm.

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    Going off their original tech spec profiles - Skywarp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Verno View Post
    Who are the most loyal Decepticons? Loyal to Megatron.
    Sky-Byte, BW Scorponok and Inferno.

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    Movieverse Blackout.

    But I was assuming Verno was talking about G1 (as of TF 2010 Lugnut has been retconned in as a G1former... ).

  10. #4510
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    Soundwave, and associated minions.

    They grabbed Megatron's body in the movie, while under heavy fire, and stayed loyal to him despite knowing that many of their comrades were ready to turn in a flash, with Megatron weakened like that.

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