Perfect Effect PE-XX

[STL]

I think it's great. I'm happy to buy if it looks good and is of solid quality.

I'm happy if it's a War Within styled toy. Would love it if an entire line were done.

[kup]

That's the thing - we already have plenty of real Soundwaves.

The point of these so-called "fan toys" is to make stuff Hasbro/TakaraTomy don't or cannot make. They're already in a legally grey area, no need to start competing with Hasbro directly with the same characters and rise their ire.

I think moves like that are going to end up spoiling it for everyone. The fan companies should not be trying to cut into Hasbro's sales.

[STL]

I think moves like that are going to end up spoiling it for everyone. The fan companies should not be trying to cut into Hasbro's sales.

I'm really sorry here but have you really thought through the logic of your argument?

How does a fan company know it's not cutting into Hasbro's profit? How do you or they know exactly what Hasbro/Takara are planning? You don't. Hasbro/Takara have said consistently that it takes them 2 years to plan ahead and go through a production processs. Just b/c you can't see it doesn't mean it isn't being planned. So it's awfully presumptuous that you or the fan companies somehow "know" what is going to cut into Hasbro's sales, don't you think?

The moment custom producers make something they are stealing away an opportunity that Hasbro/Takara could have to make a product. Whether they choose to make it or not doesn't matter. Don't you think Defender or the Fansproject Junkion are exampels of this? Even the rumoured Broadside? I don't have a problem buying any of the custom stuff but it does frustrate me that there can be such hypocrisy about it.

It's all great to accept it if its cool to you but don't occupy some superior moral highground if it doesn't; b/c most likely you'll find it'll crumble from underneath you when you discover the fragile logic that your argument really rests on is making you feel good about yourself even though you've bought stuff that stole from someone else.

Just accept that custom houses make good product that we do like and those that we don't, no need to judge anyone or anything as if you are morally superior.

At least the colours of these 3rd Party companies are coming through and you can quite clearly tell who is purely riding on the back of others.

What? All of them?

[kup]

I am not going to get into an argument with you as it will just go in loops like it has happened in the past. You have a form of thinking and reasoning that is too different to mine.

Just note that I don't appreciate you coming in and calling people hypocrites just because we don't conform to your way of looking at things.

I will say however that FP's Collector is a different situation altogether than this Soundwave. Collector was announced about a year ago, perhaps more and the intention was to provide something that Hasbro was apparently not going to do.

How many Soundwaves has there been? Look at Music Label, that's been around for a couple of years now and how many Soundwaves after that?

[1AZRAEL1]

Honestly, the only way I can see a 3rd party product eating into Hasbro's profits is if Hasbro's product is by far inferior than a 3rd party product. In regards to Wreck-Gar, I will buy 2 of Hasbro's even if the other one looks better. I like the look of the Hasbro one. And I'll probably buy the other one if it looks good enough.

I think in alot of cases, some of these 3rd party upgrades increase Hasbro sales, easy example being Bruticus. Every store started selling out of Bruticus so they could get the upgrade to enhance what was a pretty bad figure. In the end, Hasbro was selling there stock, which is their bottom line. I would not have bought Bruticus had it not been for the upgrade.

For products like Springer, that's a different story. They made a better toy than what was given by Hasbro. I turned to paying for Defender over Springer.

Unfortunately these products fall into grey areas, it's not so black and white anymore. Good or bad.

But in any case, it comes down to personal choice whether you buy 3rd party products or not.

[kup]

Honestly, the only way I can see a 3rd party product eating into Hasbro's profits is if Hasbro's product is by far inferior than a 3rd party product. In regards to Wreck-Gar, I will buy 2 of Hasbro's even if the other one looks better. I like the look of the Hasbro one. And I'll probably buy the other one if it looks good enough.

I think in alot of cases, some of these 3rd party upgrades increase Hasbro sales, easy example being Bruticus. Every store started selling out of Bruticus so they could get the upgrade to enhance what was a pretty bad figure. In the end, Hasbro was selling there stock, which is their bottom line. I would not have bought Bruticus had it not been for the upgrade.

For products like Springer, that's a different story. They made a better toy than what was given by Hasbro. I turned to paying for Defender over Springer.

Unfortunately these products fall into grey areas, it's not so black and white anymore. Good or bad.

But in any case, it comes down to personal choice whether you buy 3rd party products or not.

Yeah, it's not black or white. A lot of the fan stuff falls in grey areas but this Soundwave is certainly within a very dark shade of grey IMO.

The upgrades and accessory kits ends up benefiting both parties which is good for all. I wonder how many of that 3-pack set with Classics Rodimus they are now selling due to Protector.

[Hursticon]

Personally, I don't see the 'eating into profit' argument as being necessary, because in my view, collectors make up a fraction of a percentage of HasTakTom's sales - the only way that third party companies could possibly affect HasTakTom's profit is if parents and children start buying more 3rd party products than official ones and I personally would debate whether parents and kids are even aware of the existence of third party products.

That being said, there is absolutely no reason for any third party company to blatantly infringe on another's IP, Fansproject are definitely in the grey zone but IMO this figure is well within the red no matter how good it is because this is blatantly Soundwave.

Fansproject have been lucky because they either produce non-complete figures (upgrade kits) or complete figures with enough differences that they don't necessarily actually resemble HasTakTom's IPs, repaint FP stuff (say Defender or Munitioner etc.) and I put it to you that if they didn't aim them at TF collectors and Fans then you'd never pick their homages.

I-Gear have clearly shown a complete disregard for copyright when it comes to distributing infringing products, I just hope that Perfect Effect, who show quite a bit of promise IMO, aren't falling in with the wrong crowd.

[Deceptic_Optic]

I guess we cant really be judgemental until it actually comes out and we see what it actually looks like, cos as far as my concern it would probably be just like a the non-springer FP created and probably even have a different look into it. Not to point fingers but people bought the valykrie and its third party what if hasbro decided to create different arcees for different transformers line? since youve bought that already wouldnt that mean your cutting into HASBRO profit? its just the other way around this time

[kup]

I guess we cant really be judgemental until it actually comes out and we see what it actually looks like, cos as far as my concern it would probably be just like a the non-springer FP created and probably even have a different look into it. Not to point fingers but people bought the valykrie and its third party what if hasbro decided to create different arcees for different transformers line? since youve bought that already wouldnt that mean your cutting into HASBRO profit? its just the other way around this time

Not really, I don't see it that way. I wanted a G1 Arcee, Hasbro wasn't providing one. If it wasn't for the 3rd party I simply wouldn't have gotten one at all. This Soundwave is clearly G1 even if re-designed, and we already had a fair few new 'G1' Soundwave toys from Has-Tak-Tom negating the 'for fans' reason for bringing this out.

I believe they are just trying to ride the popularity of an existing character which is currently selling official toys rather than providing something that fans would appreciate and Hasbro is unlikely/unwilling to do, hence my trying to cut-in comment.

[Deceptic_Optic]

Not really, I don't see it that way. I wanted a G1 Arcee, Hasbro wasn't providing one. If it wasn't for the 3rd party I simply wouldn't have gotten one at all. This Soundwave is clearly G1 even if re-designed, and we already had a fair few new 'G1' Soundwave toys from Has-Tak-Tom negating the logical reason for bringing this out.

I believe they are just trying to ride the popularity of an existing character which is currently selling toys rather than providing something that fans would appreciate and Hasbro is unlikely/unwilling to do.

I see, I guess everyone has different views about this... so im not goin to go forward and cont for an arugument since we all love tf and i see both side point of view. In my opinion I dont think this wouldnt affect Hastak profit. But if this figure is badass cool disregard who made it i will definetely buy it.