Tf tlk super bowl spot tommorow.....

[GoktimusPrime]

Not to mention:

(externally linked image not embedded)

There are legitimate reasons to dislike Bay and what he has done. This is not one of them.

It remains to be seen if this Optimus is an evil clone (which is more like the "Nemesis Prime" you've cited), or if it's actually Optimus Prime himself who no longer has free will and is being forced to attack his friends (which is what I referenced). It's too early to tell which it is (or if it's something different), but I suspect that it's the actual Optimus who's mind has been altered.

You DID make me laugh with the photo. But I remember Peter Cullen talking once about preserving the honour and valour of Optimus Prime, and there being one line in a recent movie DOTM? That he deeply regretted saying. Optimus Prime is a hero, and a role model, to a generation of children growing up in the eighties. I didn't have a lot of role models growing up, and he was mine.

Optimus Prime represents something "bigger" than just a toy. Unless he is momentarily taken over and can redeem himself, I'll never watch the movie and pretend it doesn't exist. He will still be my hero

Okay, but that's a completely different issue from Optimus Prime doing evil things because he's been forced to. Because much like say the Winter Soldier, he's no longer his true self.

Also, the corruption of the Optimus Prime character that you speak of started in Revenge of the Fallen and has continued throughout Dark of the Moon and Age of Extinction. Basically, Optimus Prime in the first movie was the closest to his G1 persona, as evidenced by the fact that he was willing to sacrifice himself over killing Megatron by merging the AllSpark with his own chest. And he even cried out, "No, Sam!" when Sam shoved the Cube into Megatron's chest, then lamented over Megatron's remains ("You left me no choice, brother."). This showed the deep compassion and altruism in Optimus Prime. Someone who reluctantly uses violence. But in the sequels we see Optimus Prime take on a whole different persona, as evidenced in:
* Optimus Prime executing Scavenger (ROTF)
* Optimus Prime executing Sentinel Prime (DOTM)
* Optimus Prime threatening to execute Joshua Joyce (AoE)
But in AoE Optimus Prime's defence - and this is very important - he never carried out his threat. He had Joyce at gunpoint, but pulled himself back and walked away. Yes, Prime did kill Attinger, but this was not an execution. Attinger was an active enemy combatant who Optimus Prime killed in battle. And he had no choice because Attinger was about to shoot Cade. Although this Optimus did also enslave the Dinobots; literally threatened Grimlock with death if the Dinobots didn't ally themselves with the Autobots, and after the battle he emancipated them. You have to be enslaved before you can be emancipated.

Optimus Prime in the first movie captured the spirit of G1 Optimus Prime quite well, but Optimus Prime in the sequels was actually more like G1 Dai Atlas! (a character widely hated among Japanese G1 fans)

[drifand]

This new trailer makes me go bored again as Bee looks to kick Optimus arse instead of him getting killed. But oh well...

[DaptoDog]

The trailer interests me. I got a rush when I saw the Dinobots in the Age of Extinction trailer and it ended up being a let down. This time there was no such rush, but that's probably for the best. Keep expectations low.

[reillyd]

See this is why I like your long, elaborate posts Goktimus. You spell out the logic behind your claims and sometimes (not all the time. But enough to make things interesting) I find myself persuaded. I still see movie Prime as honourable (enemy combatant argument.), and let's face it Sentinel Prime had it coming so kinda expected execution there. But Scavenger in RotF I really I didn't like, and felt like a betrayal of the character. It gave me pause and didn't fit right.

I really, really, really hope that Prime's mind is enslaved, or evil clone, Nemesis Prime etc..... but this is Bay, so I'm worried it won't be. Bay likes to shot on childhoods!

Does anyone else thing that the photo with Prime's face (one side blue, one side red) looks an awful lot like Sentinel Prime on the red side. Dead doesn't seem to really mean dead in Bayverse, Megs has died like what four times (if you consider Galvatron an extension of Megatron )

[GoktimusPrime]

Megatron did horrific things too, yet TF1 Optimus Prime refused to kill him. And to me this demonstrated the great depth/wealth of compassion in Optimus Prime, which is very much like his G1 persona.

Scavenger and Sentinel Prime were bad guys too, I get it. But so was Megatron. Importantly, Scavenger and Sentinel Prime were defeated and helpless enemy combatants who were completely at Optimus' mercy, and killing executing combatants (without trial) is a war crime. In Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith, we see Anakin at a moral crossroad when he's defeated and incapacitated Count Dooku - completely at Anakin's mercy. Anakin hesitated and only executed Dooku because Palpatine goaded him into it, and immediately after doing so he knew that it was immoral ("I shouldn't have done that. It's not the Jedi way.").

Optimus Prime's execution of Scavenger and Sentinel Prime are much like Anakin's execution of Count Dooku. It wasn't justice, it was revenge. This is why TF1 Optimus Prime didn't want to kill Megatron, even if he were a helpless and defeated opponent, because Optimus Prime is above vengeance. He takes the moral high ground, because that's who Optimus Prime is! No matter how many innocent lives were accountable to Megatron, Optimus Prime refused to lower himself and become like a Decepticon. It was in doing exactly this that Anakin Skywalker fell and became Darth Vader ("until now you've become the very thing you swore to destroy")

I really, really, really hope that Prime's mind is enslaved, or evil clone, Nemesis Prime etc..... but this is Bay, so I'm worried it won't be.

Fair point.

Bay likes to shot on childhoods!

Eh... considering that the live action movies are a completely separate entity from G1, I don't see how any of it impacts our childhoods.

But the annoying thing is that, looking purely from a Movieverse POV, Optimus Prime's persona shift makes no sense. He suddenly shifted from being an altruist in the first movie to being a consequentialist in the second and third movies, then shifting back towards being a quasi-altruist in Age of Extinction. Huh?! It's almost as if he has multiple personality disorder or something.

Anakin was portrayed as being a generally good person, a hero, but with some underlying flaws; all centred around his strong sense of attachment (first to his mother then to Padmé, which fed his fear→anger→hate→suffering). While he was a heroic character, he was never an angel. And this was really important because his eventual fall to darkness had to be believable; he had to have these underlying flaws. Anakin didn't suddenly break character and decided that he wanted to come to the Dark Side for biscuits. His character had been gradually building up to that moment. Movie Optimus Prime on the other hand is like a Krusty The Clown doll.

Does anyone else thing that the photo with Prime's face (one side blue, one side red) looks an awful lot like Sentinel Prime on the red side. Dead doesn't seem to really mean dead in Bayverse, Megs has died like what four times (if you consider Galvatron an extension of Megatron )

Again being Michael Bay this may not mean much. Remember that Sentinel Prime was a bronze colour in the trailers but ultimately turned out to be red in the film.

[shockNwave]

AoE has shown that Michael Bay has outstayed his welcome and the TF5 trailer does nothing to change that.