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  #31  
Old 27th May 2018, 08:41 AM
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SharkyMcShark SharkyMcShark is offline
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Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post
The thing that annoys me with all of this is that much like the way they killed off Kyle Katarn because "grrl powa"
I must have missed that. I completely bought the cover story, which is that it was done for a clean slate after two decades of often contradictory and increasingly absurd EU content all premised on the fact that thered be no more movies.

I've done some reading through and you're right, Kyle Katarn was murdered in the streets because women deemed it so. Or hated his beard. Or something.

Jesus Christ...
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  #32  
Old 27th May 2018, 10:33 AM
Ralph Wiggum Ralph Wiggum is offline
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^^

It took me a few minutes to get the jist of what you were saying and realise I was agreeing with you

Ive enjoyed the Legends series since Zahns novels but its just too painful to work new movies into the web of pre-existing media. Even Solo has references to other canon material which if you didnt know about, would make you go, WTF?
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  #33  
Old 27th May 2018, 03:21 PM
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Look, Im probably putting my head in the lions mouth here, and this is not meant to insult anyone - your viewpoint is as valid as mine - but...

Canon, shmanon.

Who cares if it contradicts what has come before? Give me a good story and Im happy (which is not necessarily saying Solo is a good story well told), continuity be damned. I can enjoy either story, and believe what I choose.

I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds... (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it should be. Same goes for the fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ, in my humble opinion.
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  #34  
Old 27th May 2018, 06:04 PM
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SMHFConvoy SMHFConvoy is offline
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Originally Posted by M-bot View Post
Look, Im probably putting my head in the lions mouth here, and this is not meant to insult anyone - your viewpoint is as valid as mine - but...

Canon, shmanon.

Who cares if it contradicts what has come before? Give me a good story and Im happy (which is not necessarily saying Solo is a good story well told), continuity be damned. I can enjoy either story, and believe what I choose.

I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds... (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it should be. Same goes for the fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ, in my humble opinion.
Totally agree M, it's entertainment and therefore nothing is writ in stone.

That said I really didn't want to see Solo, because of the directoral changes, because it was another bloody starwars movie but this is a thing I do with my nephew and his dad, it's our thing and I really enjoyed it and it's one movie I wouldn't mind having a sequel to.
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  #35  
Old 27th May 2018, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by bowspearer View Post
How much longer before we all start crying out "Come back George! All is forgiven!"?
You do realise that Disney bought the IP outright, lock, stock and barrel? Lucas didn't walk out, he was bought out.

He's never coming back.
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  #36  
Old 27th May 2018, 06:53 PM
bowspearer bowspearer is offline
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Originally Posted by SharkyMcShark View Post
I must have missed that. I completely bought the cover story, which is that it was done for a clean slate after two decades of often contradictory and increasingly absurd EU content all premised on the fact that thered be no more movies.

-SNIP- <baseless misogyny slurs> -SNIP-

Jesus Christ...
Your response here is absurd and steeped in a false equivalency fallacy. It's one thing to scrap the Zahn novels, the Anderson novels and everything else that can be summed up, with 3 words - "licenced third party".

These projects never came from the Lucasfilm Group itself and therefore all bets should rightly have been off with them.

Do you know what was a part of the Lucasfilm Group? Lucasarts.

Do you know what came out of the Lucasfilm Group? Every single Star Wars game, including the entire Dark Forces series. In fact, just like Prince Xizor and Dash Rendar, Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors should have been every bit as off limits for removing from canon as Admiral Ackbar or Mon Montha.

When were those characters created by Lucasfilm? Oh yes - Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors were created in 1995, while Prince Xizor and Dash Rendar were created in 1996.

All four were created before the Special Edition Trilogy, let alone the Prequels, so your entire argument here is utter fallacy. In fact Shadows of the Empire was a Lucasfilm Group major release at the time which was designed to be everything but a movie- with even its own dedicated toyline.

It is utterly fallacious to compare that to the likes of the Thrawn Trilogy or the Jedi Academy Trilogy.

And no, it is absolutely not the same thing to eliminate one of those characters from star wars lore, as it is to eliminate the likes of Kyp Duron (who happens to be one of my favourite eu characters btw).

Likewise, the Han/Chewie backstory I'm referring to came straight from Lucasfilm back in 1994 by way of the Star Wars Screen Entertainment PC program

The fact is that if Disney can't respect their own characters (as opposed to third party characters) and their own in house developed stories, enough to work around them, then I struggle to see why I should invest in any of their movies enough to watch them. In fact, I have little doubt that they'd slice up the OT and PT on the cutting room floor if they could get away with it.

Even then I'm simply saying I'm on the fence until I know that they've respected that original story between Han and Chewie (Han throwing away a highly promising career in the Imperial navy to protect Chewie- a wookie he'd never met before). Lose that and you lose a huge chunk of what makes the life debt and their bond so amazing to begin with. Lose that and I lose all interest in seeing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Wiggum View Post
Ive enjoyed the Legends series since Zahns novels but its just too painful to work new movies into the web of pre-existing media. Even Solo has references to other canon material which if you didnt know about, would make you go, WTF?
The difference is that we're not talking about here isn't in the same category as the Zahn Trilogy, or any other piece of what should actually be EU - things which simply licensed Star Wars Trademarks and created stories and characters with minimal, at best, involvement by the Lucasfilm Group.

What we are talking about is what the Lucasfilm group established themselves - in house. Anything which fell under that category should have been as sacrosanct as the movies.

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Originally Posted by M-bot View Post
Look, Im probably putting my head in the lions mouth here, and this is not meant to insult anyone - your viewpoint is as valid as mine - but...

Canon, shmanon.

Who cares if it contradicts what has come before? Give me a good story and Im happy (which is not necessarily saying Solo is a good story well told), continuity be damned. I can enjoy either story, and believe what I choose.
And yet, for someone so quick to talk about art, I find it telling that you ignore the fact that if the artist doesn't respect the medium, the art piece they're creating ultimately suffers. A good story can be a myopic bit of fun froth on top, or it can be deep, profound and memorable. Your argument fails to draw that distinction or recognise which will have the longer lasting legacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bot View Post
I love the Ralph Waldo Emerson quote: A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds... (google the rest of the quote, totally worth it). Not saying anyone here is small-minded for having an opinion, but art is much better enjoyed when one lets go of any pre-conceived ideas of what it should be.
Meanwhile, letting go of expectations has done wonders to increasingly worsen the quality of Bayformers. Also it speaks volumes about the discernment of modern cinema-goers when a film like Age of Ex-stink-tion can be rated as both the worst movie of the year and one of the highest grossing films of the year.

The fact is that it would be entirely possible to create a great film that is well crafted and respects the pre-existing world it is created in. But then why bother with that as a film making company, when audiences will still hand over their money by the truckload for something far less polished.

No matter how much you tell yourself otherwise, this isn't art for the sake of art; this is a business. If companies see that people will pay by the truckload for crap, they'll serve up crap by the truckload. Why? Because when people will pay for crap, giving them quality actually costs you money.

When you say "switch off and enjoy it" what you're actually saying is "send these companies an even louder message that they'll pay for whatever is dished up.

See here's the thing. This is all about the money. Some bean counter in Disney ran some sums and decided that there was little to no money in the older fans, or that alienating them came with absolutely no risk. Likewise, they tokenistically decided that jumping on the diversity bandwagon is going to make them a heap of money so they went there. It's not about actually empowering people; it's about looking enough like you are so that people will hand over their money to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M-bot View Post
Same goes for the fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ, in my humble opinion.
Maybe the "fanboy gnashing of teeth over TLJ" wouldn't be as strong if Disney weren't constantly agitating the older fanbase - the reason the property was so attractive to buy to begin with - by saying things like the new films aren't made for them at all - which the "fanboys" reasonably take to mean "we don't care about you, we don't want you - now shut up and piss off". People can't poke the bear and then be surprised when they get mauled by it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy View Post
You do realise that Disney bought the IP outright, lock, stock and barrel? Lucas didn't walk out, he was bought out.

He's never coming back.
You do realise I was using a figure of speech?
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  #37  
Old 27th May 2018, 07:04 PM
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Oh please, "Come back George! All is forgiven" is not a figure of speech, a turn of phrase, a colloquialism or an analogy.
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  #38  
Old 27th May 2018, 07:13 PM
bowspearer bowspearer is offline
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Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy View Post
Oh please, "Come back George! All is forgiven" is not a figure of speech, a turn of phrase, a colloquialism or an analogy.
Then I guess the editors of the Shorter Dictionary of Catch Phrases didn't get that memo.

They note:

Quote:
come back..., all is forgiven is a jocularly despairing appeal to one who has left a particular post or organisation in which his or her know-how would now be useful, or somebody despised or disgraced by somebody worse, as in come back Margaret Thatcher, all is forgiven. The phrase has been used in this way since around 1950. See also come home, all is forgiven.
You were saying?
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  #39  
Old 27th May 2018, 07:41 PM
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I was surprised to see that this movie cost over US$250 million (some estimates are over 300, and that's even before 100+ spent on marketing)... one of the most expensive movies ever, and yet it isn't an "epic" type of movie like Infinity War, which was only a little more expensive to make.
(I guess reshooting over 2/3s of the movie, will make it more expensive than the result will look like it cost.)


That aside, despite being a little slow in parts, it wasn't too bad. Nothing too unusual or surprising, like prequel movies, which were also finally showing us things that we already knew about.
I still just don't like the choice of actor for Han, since Harrison Ford was such an iconic actor for the role, it really ruins the feel of the movie to have someone who doesn't look or sound, or behave like the original Movies Solo. Since they were going for a no-name actor for the role, couldn't they have at least find someone who looked a little like Harrison Ford... or one of those impersonators.
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  #40  
Old 27th May 2018, 07:44 PM
Ralph Wiggum Ralph Wiggum is offline
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I'm sure you know that the only material which is sacrosanct, and has only every been treated as such, has been the 6x movies because they were created by Lucas. And now the cartoon series come to think of it.

Your opinion that any material from LucasArts should be treated the same as the movies is simply that: an opinion. If Lucas made a storyline decision which shat all over the canon of the games, then his opinion would have overridden it.

The head honchos who run Lucasfilm have made the call. You can keep dwelling on it or enjoy the next stage of the epic space fantasy we all love.

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Originally Posted by griffin View Post
That aside, despite being a little slow in parts, it wasn't too bad. Nothing too unusual or surprising, like prequel movies, which were also finally showing us things that we already knew about.
The problem with origin stories is that there is no tension whatsoever about whether the protagonist or his furry sidekick will survive, because you know they will. Kinda like when watching Black Panther, I had zero concern about the main character getting stabbed and kicked off a waterfall given he was appearing in Infinity War. It's certainly the weaker of the Star Wars movies so far, but it wasn't as terrible as I'd feared.
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