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Thread: Martial arts discussion thread

  1. #451
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    Ahahaha, aw man, I just saw those vids.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartrim View Post
    Thats what I can't believe. Dillman is 8th Dan so he must have some skills. He really doesn't need to resort to this BS.
    I've never heard of this guy until now, but I wonder what the authenticity/lineage of his style/training is. After a brief online search it appears that he claims that he trained under Seiyu Oyata, but neither Oyata nor his associates have ever endorsed or sanctioned Dillman's Ryukyu Kempo. There appears to be a lack of evidence that Dillman ever received authentic training... especially when the Ryukyuan head branch flatly deny it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bartrim View Post
    BTW I'm not disputing the pressure point stuff because we do some pressure point work and I love it. So simple yet effective. It's the no touch knock outs that I think is rubbbish.
    I agree. Pressure points still require tactile contact too! For anyone who doubts the existence of pressure points, there's a very simply pressure point attack that is commonly used even in schoolyard and street brawls, or even accidentally in sports... and many of us have may have experienced it -- getting winded. I remember my Chen Tai Chi teacher demonstrating it once... all you need to do is fight the right point in the solar plexus, and push it. He did this with his thumb, and the person he demonstrated it down dropped down gasping for breath. The force applied to that point causes the diaphragm to spasm, which of course makes it difficulty to breathe. Now of course, in a real fight it's jolly hard to hit a pressure point with accuracy... so it's best just to aim at that general area with a large surface area, like your fist (instead of a finger tip). For instance, if you punch someone in the solar plexus, there's a fair chance that some part of your fist will impact on the exact pressure point that causes the diaphragm to spasm and wind the opponent. But yeah, whether you're using finger tips or fists... either way you do need to touch someone to activate a pressure point! I remain an unbeliever in the idea of projecting invisible energy through the air at people. Unless you have extremely powerful farts (especially if they're silent but violent )

    It was funny watching those guys make excuses for why their techniques didn't work on skeptics. In comparison, I find a kick to the nards has a much higher chance of success considering:
    + It still works regardless of the opponent's tongue or toe positions!
    + 40% of the population are not susceptible to no-contact? (that's a lot btw) 100% of the male population are susceptible to being smashed in the groin!
    + Natural athletes are the toughest? So you'd better hope that if you get attacked by someone that they're not going to be physically fit! Also... a kick to the nards still works on fit people.

    You know what's really flawed about all these demonstrations? NONE of the participants are trying to fight back! They're all just standing there waiting for the attacker to expel energy at them! Cos in a real fight your attacker is totally gonna just stand there and let you do your voodoo! And even if it pushes you off balance... so what? The first thing you learn in martial arts is to stand in a solid stance; absorb the energy from the push (as you would from a physical attack)... or take another step out to catch your balance. Or do a breakfall and get up again. Losing your centre of balance isn't the end of the world. It's almost as if these guys are spending a lot of time and money trying to learn how to do something with their chi energy when you could achieve the same result from just tackling someone! (odds are the tackle would have a greater success rate... regardless of tongue misalignment )

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Cos in a real fight your attacker is totally gonna just stand there and let you do your voodoo! And even if it pushes you off balance... so what?
    Because its interesting. Well i find it interesting that i can be moved without being touched.

    In a "real fight" your going to do what your trained to do aren't you? Be it Grapple, Strike, Grab nuts if want, ok.
    Thats what you train, be it forms, katas, sparring, MMA, Thats what your going to have when fighting.
    Everyone knows your attacker isn't going to be compliant, and if you don't you will find out pretty smartly


    I don't know much about Dillman either, but he was a karate national champion four times.
    http://www.dillman.com/about.asp

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  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldschool78 View Post
    Because its interesting. Well i find it interesting that i can be moved without being touched.
    Well that may be a cool parlour trick (for lack of a better word), but is it self defence/martial arts? I mean, there are people who can levitate themselves and walk in thin air without any wires or supports etc. (only they openly claim that they are illusionists - it's just that they won't tell you how their illusions are performed). Some people can make objects/people disappear or produce objects/people out of thin air. These are all really cool things, sure... but when you start teaching it as a martial art and give people that you're teaching the impression that it can be used in self defence, then there's an argument that you could be giving people dangerous false confidence.

    I mean, if someone says, "Wanna see a cool trick? I bet I can move you without touching you." and that was effectively it... then fine. But to do the same thing and then say, "Now I'll teach it to you, and you can use it to protect yourself in real life from attackers," now that's potentially putting people's safety and lives in danger. Like that guy I mentioned before whom I used to train with who believes in this stuff... he absolutely believes that if someone were to try to hit him, that he could stop the attack just by projecting his chi energy. That's why the rest of us in that group just shook our heads in disbelief and always speculated about what would happen to this guy should he actually be viciously attacked IRL and he tried to defend himself with no touch. I'll tell you now, he'd get the crap beaten out of him!

    The real problem I have hear isn't just that these people are mucking around with these tricks, but instilling people with the steadfast belief that learning these tricks can keep them safe and possibly save their lives in a self defence situation. Now I find this whole 'no touch push' thing highly dubious and I remain skeptical. You say you've experienced it... fine. But that's anecdotal hearsay testimonial from a single individual. It's not what would be acceptable as actual evidence from an academic POV.

    There's a lot better research out there on how fights work, such as those conducted by Darren Laur and his studies into how fear affects fights, because in his research he actually established:
    + The independent variable: Augmenting standard riot police training with cyclical breathing/meditation training.
    + The controlled variable: one group of riot police did not undergo cyclical breathing/meditation training. There was no alteration to their standard riot squad training. They were the control sample.
    + The dependent variable: the study found that the 'test sample' (officers who underwent the breathing/meditation training) saw a massive improvement in their defensive skills as opposed to control sample who saw only a small/marginal improvement.
    Conclusion: cyclical breathing/meditation (an element of traditional martial arts training) greatly increases one's ability to control fear and recall learned techniques in a highly stressful/frightening fight scenario.

    What I've seen in these videos are merely these people performing these tricks on their own students -- who are unlikely to be skeptics and I have no idea what their previous martial arts training may be. If someone wants to gather dependable evidence on 'no touch' fighting, then they need to do a proper experiment like what Laur did with cyclical breathing/meditation. Also remember that a phenomenon needs to be dependably repeatable in order to demonstrate that it does work and it wasn't just a freak occurance. What these guys have done in these videos is establish confounding variables, i.e. "variables that the researcher failed to control, or eliminate, damaging the internal validity of an experiment." (reference)

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldschool78 View Post
    In a "real fight" your going to do what your trained to do aren't you? Be it Grapple, Strike, Grab nuts if want, ok.
    Thats what you train, be it forms, katas, sparring, MMA, Thats what your going to have when fighting.
    Everyone knows your attacker isn't going to be compliant, and if you don't you will find out pretty smartly
    And thus training should attempt to simulate such conditions. Which I'm not seeing in these videos (nor similar people that I've met IRL) who claim to be practising/teaching self defence. If there were NO claim of fight/self def applicability, then fine... I wouldn't object. I'd see it just as another "parlour trick" alongside all the cool stuff that magicians like David Copperfield or even Penn and Teller, who often tell the audience how their illusions are done and often go around debunking myths in their documentary series Penn & Teller: Bullsh!t! -- including one episode where they debunked martial arts.

    In all seriousness, if someone wants to be able to defend themselves without touching an attacker there is a way. Carry pepper spray.

  4. #454
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    I agree with you Gok. These should not be taught as self defence. I know of a guy (I worked with his cousin) who had learnt self defence at a non touch McDojo and thought he was tough. He got confronted outside a club one night by three guys. Instead of trying to avoid or de-escalate the situation like we are taught (violence is the last measure) he believed he had the skills to take all 3 of these guys on. Short version basically this guy is now on a disability fund I'm not sure if there were any legal ramifications regarding the martial arts club he learnt at but I always thought they should of been liable in some way.

    BTW I like in the second video how UFC fighter Stephan Bonnar is one of the guys that they try to knock out with chi energy. If I was the reporter I would say "Alright you tried to knock Bonnar out now lets see him try to knock you out" See if his chi protects him then.

    Look at the half moons!!!!!Pfffffft
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  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    I mean, if someone says, "Wanna see a cool trick? I bet I can move you without touching you." and that was effectively it... then fine.
    Thats were I'm coming from too, its interesting stuff.

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  6. #456
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    Okay, you ready? This time I'm going to avoid saying anything negative or critical about tonight's GKR training. I'm only going to focus on the positive aspects!

    We did some endurance training and resistance work at the beginning of the lesson. Then contact punching/blocking. No comment about the rest of the lesson.

    The end.

  7. #457
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    Just for some laughs, here are some martial arts memes. Most of these I found off the internet, so I didn't make them. But I couldn't find a meme for Kung Fu, so I made that one.






















  8. #458
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    I am SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO over those memes There is seriously one for everything. It is past the point of being funny.



    This is more in my taste

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  9. #459
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    Aaah yes... the new martial arts fashion trend with TapOut shirts etc. My Chen Tai Chi teacher never enforced uniform, but even for students who chose to wear it, he always told us to never wear the uniform anywhere in public other than in class. If we were to travel straight from home to training and back again, then no probs with wearing the uniform. But if we were to make a pitstop at a supermarket or something, then he told us to either change out of it, or at least throw a jacket on top to hide the school logo (our uniform was otherwise just a white Tee-shirt/jumper with small crest and black track pants; so unless you see the logo it doesn't look like a martial arts uniform). The reasoning is that you just don't want to advertise to strangers that you do martial arts, because there are just some idiots out there who are looking for an excuse to make trouble, and seeing a MA uniform or logo may just be the trigger that makes them want to challenge you to a fight.

    Thankfully the vast majority of martial artists I've met do the sensible thing and avoid wearing their uniforms outside of classes/events, but every now and then I see someone walking down the street or in a supermarket or shopping centre wearing a martial arts uniform or, more recently, martial arts "fashion." Yeah... it's all fun and games until some idiot calls your bluff and decides to "test" your skills in a fight.

    When I signed up for GKR, the sales rep gave me two GKR stickers and suggested that perhaps I could stick one on my car! Erm... no thanks. I see enough road rage every week without having to worry about some violent moron being provoked by some martial arts imagery on my car, thank you very much. If anyone would like some free GKR stickers, LMK. And another thing about these martial arts fashion shops I see popping around; all their fashion is geared toward the commercialised fighting sport images, like TapOut etc.

  10. #460
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    Well watch out Gok. I'll be wearing a TapouT shirt tomorrow
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