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Thread: American Election

  1. #11
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    Well, it looks like Biden has one. Trump is the first one term president since George bush Sr.
    I'll update this when I'm needing help finding particular figures

  2. #12
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    I hope Trump barricades himself in the Oval Office and refuses to come out. Best episode of COPS ever!

    Seriously though, don't think that the crazy is over - he's still got a lot of lawsuits to throw and see what sticks, and even if they all fail (they're apparently pretty flimsy so far) he's still got until January 20 before he's actually Not the President anymore. That's a LOT of time to do damage for a desperate, vengeful, spiteful man with nothing to lose.

  3. #13
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    I heard prosecutors are getting ready to arrest Trump for things like tax evasion the second he leaves the White House.
    I have a list of all G1 characters that have been released in CHUG form. You can find it here. Please feel free to let me know if I got anything wrong so I can fix it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ode to a Grasshopper View Post
    I hope Trump barricades himself in the Oval Office and refuses to come out. Best episode of COPS ever!

    Seriously though, don't think that the crazy is over - he's still got a lot of lawsuits to throw and see what sticks, and even if they all fail (they're apparently pretty flimsy so far) he's still got until January 20 before he's actually Not the President anymore. That's a LOT of time to do damage for a desperate, vengeful, spiteful man with nothing to lose.
    This was something that I was saying to someone else on fb, in that he will still hold power for another 11 weeks, with the power of the Republican senate behind him, to burn down Rome if he wanted to... to make it even harder for the next administration to start working straight away, to deal with the virus and the economy. He still has executive order powers, that has access to a lot of money if he wanted to spend it on something stupid, or funnel it towards things he would benefit from.
    I wouldn't put it past him to use his control over his followers, to rise up and protect "their" president from being evicted on January 20th, whom he has already convinced that the election was rigged, claiming that Republican observers were not present, even though Republican observers have said that they were.
    The last civil war in America had two Presidents, that each side believed was the one true president, so it has happened before, and we've already seen trump tweet out a call to arms to his followers, leading to some state buildings being over-run by armed trump supporters (and more recently, attempts to over-run counting rooms to stop the count, just because he told them to do it by twitter).

    Quote Originally Posted by DELTAprime View Post
    I heard prosecutors are getting ready to arrest Trump for things like tax evasion the second he leaves the White House.
    Something that was included in the Russia Collusion report was that if he wasn't currently a sitting president, he would have been charged with a number of offences... meaning, he wasn't being charged because he was innocent (as claimed by his puppet attorney general Barr), but because the constitution of America does not allow a sitting president to be charged with a crime... the charges have to wait until he has finished his term (4 or 8 years).
    As such, it was noted after the impeachment trial that he has a lot potential charges and lawsuits waiting for him when he is no longer president (which is why he is so desperate to remain president, for life).

    The example to bring up here is Nixon, who resigned before his impeachment trial, so that he didn't have the humiliation of being removed by force, when he left office, he was pardoned by his replacement Gerald Ford, which lost him all credibility as it tainted him as if he was colluding with Nixon, by preventing him from being held accountable for the Watergate scandal.
    Even if Biden was somehow forced to pardon trump for his federal crimes (like the Russia collusion), it still leaves him with a lot of state charges waiting for him after January 20th... so either he calls for his supporters to rise up and defend him, or he sneaks off to a country without an extradition treaty.

  5. #15
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    It is extraordinary that Republicans seem to be going along with Trump's denial, with Bill Barr announcing an inquiry into voting irregularities, all but Romney refusing to acknowledge let alone congratulate Biden for his win, Graham and Cruz out there pushing Trump's conspiracy theories, and the Government refusing to cooperate with Biden's transition team including providing access to Federal funds, resources and briefing necessary to ensure he is ready to hit the ground running on 20 January. The other possibility is, they are humouring Trump, announcing sham inquiries etc and propagandasing to help him emotionally reach the point where he able to accept defeat (eg. after the legal challenges fail and the inquiry finds no evidence of widescale voter fraud etc). Additionally there is the fear of Trump's unhinged base who basically believe Trump is being robbed and any Republican who even acknowledges he has lost is a traitor who will face death threats.

    More concerning was Mike Pompeo trying to say there would be a transition to a second term of Donald Trump. If he was humouring Trump he should have known better, this comes across as a grave threat of a fascist coup by a party addicted to power and led by a madman. We live in truly frightening times.

  6. #16
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    People think it is laughable or absurd to suggest situations that we see in smaller countries that have disputed elections or fake elections to re-elect a fascist dictator... but trump always had the personality traits of those other people who crave power and attention, and won't give it up (usually using the powers that they have obtained from their position to limit or silence opposition to them remaining in power).
    Dismiss it if you want, believing that it could never happen in the USA, but the actions of a national leader to use a large part of the population to undermine or eradicate democracy (convincing obsessed followers that he won and continuing to govern with their support, after losing an election), is how revolutions and civil wars are started.

    And in the last few days, trump has been removing people from positions of military power, and replacing them with people who are close supporters of his. The Secretary of Defence and three senior people at the Pentagon are likely to be the first of many, which makes it even harder for a new administration to get to work in January if they have all of trump's friends who have limited experience in those roles, all working against the new President, who will have to first replace them all again (which will be twice in just two months), before he can start getting things done with people who know what they are doing, and willing to work with him.
    Plus, if the Senate remains in Republican hands, lead by one of trump's biggest fans, Biden won't be able to have anyone he wants in permanent positions (Senate needs to confirm all permanent positions)... so we could end up having another four years of Government departments being run by "Acting" Directors and Secretaries.

    All the while, trump will be in the background, tweeting and getting his face on camera, encouraging his millions of fans to keep America divided by doing everything they can to disrupt Biden's plans and initiatives.

    For the rest of us outside of America, it is a real popcorn moment, to sit back and watch how it all plays out.

  7. #17
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    So we are now a week after Biden was declared winner, almost 2 weeks since the election, and trump still hasn't conceded defeat (he never will), or even allowing any Government department or employee have any contact with Biden... to the extent of preventing the State Department from passing on congratulatory messages from other countries.
    How low is that, to stop people from congratulating his opponent.
    (they are the official point of contact with the US Government by other countries, particularly if they don't have direct contact with non-government people... or shouldn't if they don't want to be accused of colluding with foreign powers like trump's team did in 2016).

    After all this time, with just about every one of their lawsuits against the election being thrown out by different courts, and still no documented evidence provided to back up all of the anonymous claims of voter fraud... trump is still determined to prevent a new administration that has earned it's win, from being able to get ready for the huge job of running the country - something that can't be done the day of inauguration. If the new administration is blocked from intelligence briefings and getting familiarised with the different departments and heads, America's national security will be at risk, and it's allies like Australia as we rely on a lot on its greater intelligence network... not to mention a deterrence against countries like China, who have been allowed to expand their influence in this region of the world, and target Australia with ongoing trade disputes. They were hit with trade restrictions and potential penalties by trump so can't take it out on America, so have to take it out on their alliance partner. Since trump only cares about America first by removing America from a lot of treaties and international agreements, so he has no interest in stepping in to defend an alliance partner as it doesn't benefit him or America.
    This is why we (Australia) will benefit from Biden more than trump, as China does not appear to be slowing down on its targeting of Australian imports (affecting our jobs and economy at such a vulnerable time), so we need our alliance partner's help to get China off our back (to at least play fair with trade again).

    Today when he popped his head up for announcements about the Pfizer vaccine, his spiteful nature had him state that New York will get the vaccine last, because of the negative things the Governor of that state has said about him. We already know how willing he is to sacrifice thousands of Americans to the virus just to get elected and to make money, but this is just completely evil, happy to let people die just to punish someone who dared speak out against his inaction to the virus.
    Oh, and he's also claiming credit for the vaccine by Pfizer, even though they are one company who wasn't part of trump's "warp speed" project and received no government money to produce their vaccine. (I know someone who works for Pfizer, and he is really angry that trump is claiming credit for their work)
    Last edited by griffin; 14th November 2020 at 06:13 PM.

  8. #18
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    It really is turning into a popcorn show, and it would be laughable and entertaining as an outsider if there weren't thousands of people dying every day from covid, while it is still a political issue (until the Georgia Senate elections in January occur, the Republican party needs trump's supporters to get re-elected, so almost no one is saying anything against him to tackle the virus, or to even acknowledge the election result.
    The election win has been one of the greatest margins

    The day for us to really watch is December 14th. That's the day that each state sends its designated Electors to "vote", based on the Electoral Map (each state has a different number allocated to each, based on their population, which adds up to 538), and in most states, those Electors are NOT obligated to vote according to who won their state. If the Electors in a state that Biden won are fans of trump, they are actually entitled to cast their votes for him, if they aren't in a state that they are bound to vote according to who got the most votes. This is trump's last chance to legally retain the presidency, if he can convince enough people in states that Biden won, to vote for him.... and it is perfectly legal.
    It was a system set up when the Constitution was drawn up, to make sure only "qualified" people end up taking up the prestigious position of the President. In a way it was meant to prevent people like trump from being president, as the founding fathers feared someone getting voted in on a sudden wave of popularity that was unprepared or unwilling to respect the position or lead for ALL Americans, and would more likely cause the downfall or destruction of the Nation from within like a tyrant or autocrat.
    It does make you wonder what the point is of a Presidential election if the small number of Electors chosen by the State governments are the ones who decide who the President will be, and in most states can ignore the popular vote in their State if they didn't fear any repercussions (if they felt that their job would be protected by the person or party they were voting to make President).
    (the system also makes it easier to make a replacement President if the President-Elect dies between the November election and the December Elector vote... it has never happened yet, but we've never had someone as old as Biden win, during the middle of a pandemic that kills most people his age)

    Ordinarily, the citizens would be so outraged if their Democracy is ignored by the State Electors that it doesn't happen very often (people who do it are called faithless electors, and until trump came along, it rarely happened... the Electors usually honoured the will of the people, over any party loyalties. In 2016, there were 7 faithless electors, voting against trump or clinton, and I would expect that there will be a lot more this year, as trump and Republican party officials try to convince 37 of Electors to change their vote to trump (if they both get 270, Congress breaks the tie, based on how many states are represented by each party, and Republicans have the majority).
    Until all states adopt legislation to force their Electors to vote according to the popular vote in their State, this is all perfectly legal, but will make a mockery of the concept of Democracy, especially while nations like China are trying to outlaw democratic concepts (giving the people a voice), they will take advantage of the chaos in America, by disputing any right to criticise their own efforts to prevent a democratic will of the people.

    So after December 14th, if trump failed to convince 37 Electors to switch their vote, he still has the support of almost 80% of his followers, according to a recent poll on the PBS newshour today that has 77% of trump voters believing that the Biden didn't win the election fairly. Thanks to trump convincing his followers that everyone else lies (media, opposition politicians), he can say whatever crazy thing he wants, and they believe him.
    All but one of his 38 lawsuits against the election results have failed, and his lawyers don't claim things in court that they are saying in public because there are penalties for knowingly lie in court, but he keeps claiming things that were already proven to be untrue, or his team have failed to prove occurred. However, since his followers read his tweets and not the news sites reporting on the facts, his followers are still keen to defend his claim of winning the election... and that could be interesting if all trump's options are exhausted after December 14th and he calls on his followers to take action against the people or party that have "stolen" his rightful place in the white house.
    After all, trump was the one who convinced millions of his followers that Obama was not born in America, which would make him ineligible to be President... but since he targets white males who have limited education, those obsessed supporters aren't willing or able to learn the truth through reliable sources.

    The United States was the great bastion or example to the rest of the world of the concept of Democracy in the modern era... and if any other country had an election that the sitting head of state was refusing to accept or tried to over-turn, every western country (led by the US) would be criticising them and even placing sanctions on them if they were persecuting any opposition to their unlawful hold of power.

  9. #19
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    So, interesting times. Makes you wonder what they're going to do in 2 weeks when Biden officially becomes President.



    Also, it looks like the Republicans have lost the Senate.

  10. #20
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    Today is a salutary lesson to anyone who thought Trump was all talk and not a fascist attempting an undemocratic coup. Wouldn't it be fun if we could all just say it was fraud every time our preferred party loses.

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