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Thread: The non-toy Star Wars discussion thread

  1. #31
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    I think everyone is missing the point of the Han Solo movie. We have seen a young Han Solo in ep 4. What they will be looking for is a YOUNG Han. Adolescent Han who is getting involved with smugglers etc. His young life smuggling well before the events of a New Hope.

  2. #32
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    I hadn't thought about just how far back they were aiming at. But that seems legit. How about Evan Peters?

  3. #33
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    Young Han has to be full of attitude, sarcasm and swagger as well as looking the part.

    Its going to be the young Indy deal. Like R.I.P River Phenix and the Patrick fellow from the TV Movies.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime View Post
    Haven't seen that movie, so I can't comment.
    that's a shame, you should add it to the top of your 'to watch' list immediately!

  5. #35
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    Force Awakens visual spoiler ahead




    Looking at one part of the newest Force Awakens teaser, I've noticed that they've done something which has never been done properly in previous Star Wars films. Lightsabre back glow!



  6. #36
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    Is that from the light sabre or his teeth

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatran View Post
    Is that from the light sabre or his teeth
    he'd be the perfect ninja if he was able to keep his eyes & mouth shut

    On the subject of glow, I didn't mind the duel between Dooku and Anakin in Episode 2 after they sliced the power cable, killing the lights & all you saw were there faces and the blades twirling. I thought that was done very well, but this, this is just on a whole new level.

  8. #38
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    Yeah, that part of the duel between Anakin and Dooku was the only time where you saw sabre glow. They had both actors swinging lightsabre props that were basically bright fluorescent tubes (IIRC a bit thicker and brighter than the Force FX sabres). But the problem with those props was that we didn't see any scenes where they had back glow and seeing the blades contact on screen. Mind you we still don't know if Force Awakens will do this too -- all we've seen so far is Finn standing still while holding that lightsabre. But I'm guessing (hoping) that Abrams will finally achieve what previous directors have failed to do, and that is to have consistent backglow whenever a lightsabre blade is ignited.

    I know that a lot of people won't agree with me on this, but I personally didn't like the lightsabre choreography in Attack of the Clones. A lot of people liked it because it was very 'swingy.' Lots of very wide arcing swings which visually looks impressive, but is ultimately quite impractical in a fight. There's a lot of wasted movement. IMHO The Phantom Menace had the best lightsabre choreography in the saga so far. The fight between Darth Maul, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Qui Gon Jinn is fantastic. There are a lot of moves thrown into it at rapid speed, but each movement means something. Every movement is attempting to attack or defend, and each attack is actually aiming at an opponent's body, not at the opponent's blade. Each block or parry is thwarting a potentially deadly strike. Missing a single defensive manoeuvre would be fatal, as Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul ultimately discovered. There was even a moment where fighters were too close to continue fighting with their sabres, and they had to resort to hand-to-hand combat, e.g. Darth Maul using kicks, Qui Gon Jinn using an elbow-backfist combo etc. I think that one thing that really helped with Episode I was Ray Park (Darth Maul), who is an accomplished martial artist in real life. He helped choreograph action and stunt sequences, and his martial arts expertise really shows, lending the sabre fights a much more realistically deadly flavour that isn't seen in any other Star Wars film. One of my favourite moments is when Obi-Wan charges Maul after Jinn's death; he unleashes a relentless barrage of lightsabre strikes on Maul (and Maul also throwing a volley of counterstrikes). Phwoar!

    By comparison, the sabre choreography in Episode II felt more like cheerleading, gymnastics and acrobatics. Very fancy but mostly ineffectual movements -- especially Yoda. A lot of people love how he jumps around like a frog, but he makes little serious attempt at trying to strike Dooku. He's more of nuisance rather than a credible threat. The Clone Troopers weren't much better either, with a lot of strutting around looking fancy, but ultimately really impractical movements (they made themselves massive targets that would get them immediately shot in actual combat). Although to Lucas' credit, he did realise that he had these shortcomings in Episode II and sought to rectify them in Episode III. The lightsabre choreography in Ep3 was a lot better than Episode II; they really tried to cut down on "movement waste" and tried to make it more realistic. It still wasn't as good as Ep1, but it was definitely a marked improvement over Ep2. For the Clone Troopers, Lucas had a former US Navy SEAL advise on the movement/choreography of the clones, and actually had the ex-SEAL wear a motion tracking suit, getting him to simply move as he would in actual combat, and the animation of the Clones was based on the movements of that SEAL. The result was bloody fantastic, as we saw the Clones moving in a far more efficient and realistic manner compared to Ep2. No strutting around with wide open stances, making themselves bigger targets; there was no wasted movement or 'grandstanding,' just simple but effective realism.

    Images

    Episode 1 lightsabre choreography

    Fast & furious with no wasted movements. Each move has an intention. Choreography assisted by experienced martial artist, Ray Park (Darth Maul)

    Episode 2 lightsabre choreography

    Pretty twirly movements with loads of meaningless/wasted movements. Characters aren't even in range half the time and end up striking at each other's blades rather than at each other!

    Episode 3 lightsabre choreography

    Tried to recapture the effective and more realistic style of Episode 1. Didn't quite get there, but points for effort.

    Episode 2 Clones

    Lots of unrealistic strutting around, showing off the look of the Clones, but also leaving them really exposed as open targets. Lots of wasteful and ineffectual movements.

    Episode 3 Clones

    Far tighter and realistic movements. No grandstanding. Based on motion capture from an actual US Navy SEAL. Compare with photos of real soldiers in right inset.

  9. #39
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    It's...a...movie.

    Alternate lightsabre duel scene:
    * Jedi thrusts lightsabre through evil guy's heart before he/she/non-gender can block.
    * Evil guy drops dead.
    * Main fight sequence over.
    * Film ends.
    ** Angry film go-ers start a riot in the movie theatre **

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megatran View Post
    It's...a...movie.
    While a level of suspension of disbelief is required when enjoying any form of fantasy/scifi, there does need to be a certain level of realism in order to make it not too unbelievable for the audience. Blaster guns, lightsabres and Force powers are arguably fictitious, but this doesn't mean that there can't be a level of realism within the fantasy. IMO, that level of additional realism helps to make the fantasy more enjoyable, as it helps to ground it and just make it more believable. If you're going to leave yourself open in a fight, then you're making just too easy for the enemy to attack you. Enemies who are trained (or should be trained) to kill you as soon as you make an opening.

    Examples of fantasy/scifi genre films with realistic fight choreography include:
    * The Lord of the Rings
    * The Hobbit
    * The Chronicles of Narnia
    * The Original Star Wars Trilogy!
    etc.
    All of these fights portray the brutal savagery of combative fighting. There's none of this nonsensical grandstanding or "peacocking" where you're just trying to make the characters strike dashing (but stupidly exposed) poses or fancy acrobatic or gymnastic movements that would just get you killed in a real fight. Many good fiction writers realise the importance of grounding their work in realism. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle even invented a fictitious martial art for his titular character!


    Tyred of realism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Megatran View Post
    Alternate lightsabre duel scene:
    * Jedi thrusts lightsabre through evil guy's heart before he/she/non-gender can block.
    * Evil guy drops dead.
    * Main fight sequence over.
    * Film ends.
    ** Angry film go-ers start a riot in the movie theatre **
    ^That's basically how Jedi & Sith fight. The only reason why some light sabre fights go on longer is because they're up against highly skilled opponents (e.g. other Force users, Bounty Hunters etc.). But you look at the average non Force user against a Force user, and it's typically a quick fight. Look at Palpatine vs the Jedi Masters; he kills Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin in precisely the same manner that you've just described. Kit Fisto falls shortly after, and only Mace Windu is able to hold up against Palpatine. That's precisely how real combat works.

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