G1 Combiners Vs PCC?

[SkyWarp91]

Which do you think was better done?

PCC for its pose-ability and triple-mode Commanders + minicons? Or G1 (including RID combiners) for the fact that each part is a robot in itself?

But at the same time PCC suffered from having limbs that weren't individual robots whilst G1 combiners were part-formers and could not do so many poses?

There were also the Universe/ROTF Combiners too, but what was the deal with their clear fluorescent hands/feet?

[Vector Prime]

Which do you think was better done?
G1 Combiners

PCC for its pose-ability and triple-mode Commanders + minicons? Or G1 (including RID combiners) for the fact that each part is a robot in itself?
Each part being an individual robot

But at the same time PCC suffered from having limbs that weren't individual robots whilst G1 combiners were part-formers and could not do so many poses?
They were at least individual robots

There were also the Universe/ROTF Combiners too, but what was the deal with their clear fluorescent hands/feet?
Carryover from their Energon original molds

Responses in bold above.

G1 Combiners > Energon/Universe/ROTF Combiners > PCC

I've ignored the PCC range altogether since they fail at one major thing which Transformers stand for, transforming.

[LordCyrusOmega]

As much as I enjoy PCC G1 combiners are still the best. Given that they were released 20 years ago it just shows how little has been done in combiner engineering.

G1 had individual robots with their own robot/vehicle modes that looked pretty good in combined form.

Energon combiners lacked hands and chose to double up on modes rather then five different robots but still passed in combined mode.

PCC have 1 transformable robot and 4 different drones that automorph into a limb.

G1 wins in combiners everytime.

[Hursticon]

G1 Combiners > Energon/Universe/ROTF Combiners > PCC

I've ignored the PCC range altogether since they fail at one major thing which Transformers stand for, transforming.

Could not have put it better my self. ;):)

Truly, how can one compare these:

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/2010%20Acquisitions/NOV29ACQ-7.jpg

To this:

http://i1032.photobucket.com/albums/a409/Darkone666au/Crap/Bruticus07.jpg
(3rd Party Powered Bruticus lets us know his thoughts on the matter... :p)


There isn't a comparison IMO but the closest thing to a Modern, G1-esque Combiner we've received required a 3rd Party company to deliver! :D
I long for HasTakTom to deliver a Gestalt comprised of 5-6 Transforming Robot Toys of a modern design and engineering standard - That have feet, hands and each component robot being different from the next. :(

[LordCyrusOmega]

That Bruticus is sweet. It would be nice if HasTak did something like this so we wouldn't have to rely on 3rd parties for decent toys.

PCC aren't really combiners, More like suckier versions of Super Mode Optimus Prime from Energon. His limbs were at least interchangeable and not auto transform,

[GoktimusPrime]

As others have said, there's just no comparison. G1 gestalts beat PCC Combiners hands down - simply because each limb component is an autonomous Transformer in its own right. The PCC limb drones are not. For example, Australia didn't get the G1 gestalt gift sets, so we had to collect gestalt teams member by member. I remember buying individual members and then enjoying them as a Transformer toy in their own right for a long time before finally completing the gestalt set (which for a kid was a big accomplishment). Can you imagine if you had to collect PCC Combiners the same way? You'd get say a single PCC drone... it doesn't transform into anything on its own.

I gestalts from any other series are better than PCC Combiners. Arguably even McDonald's Happy Meal Armada toys offer better play value considerin that they can all individually transform from robot to vehicle, they have Mini-Con Powerlinx ports, and they all have individual gimmicks (e.g. Hot Shot has a pull-back-and-go motor, Starscream is a Jumpstarter etc.). And they're cheaper too -- PCC Combiners retail for about $40 whereas the Happy Meal gestalt figures cost $2 each, or free with a Happy Meal purchase!


Given that they were released 20 years ago it just shows how little has been done in combiner engineering.
Actually, there has been considerable developments in gestalt engineering. It's just that Energon and especially PCC have taken arguably "backward steps" and aren't exploiting the designs available today.

Devastator is a notoriously fragile gestalt, prone to falling apart easily. The "Scramble" gestalts had better interlocking, although some of the limb robots suffered from "blockhead" syndrome, but that was because they all had to have universal ports for their "Scramble combining" gimmick to work (thus allowing team members to swap around to make combination gestalt robots like this (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/5/52/Studioox_combiners_whatif.jpg)).

One significant development in G1 gestalt design occured in 1989 with LioKaiser. Except for the head, all of LioKaiser's gestalt components are self contained. Every fist, foot, chest plate etc were built in as part of the individual robots and were not detachable accessories. This meant that so long as you didn't lose the head, the Breast Forcers can always combine to form LioKaiser.

Beast Wars' gestalts had complete self-contained gestalt parts. Only the weapons were detachable accessories, and even then, they incorporate into the individual robots anyway. But otherwise _everything_ on those gestalts were self contained; it's impossible to lose a foot, hand or head for a Beast Wars gestalt, unless you actually break the robots (in which case they probably won't be able to combine anyway :p). God Neptune's an exception to this obviously, since he's a repaint of a G1 mould.

Car Robot/RiD had the same thing ('cept Vuldigus/Ruination since he's a G1 mould redeco). All of the gestalts' parts are fully self contained.

It wasn't until Energon came along that they took a backward step and made the hands and feet separate detachable accessories instead of being self-contained parts. This was probably done to accomodate for the "Scramble" gimmick, i.e. allowing the limb robots to become either a hand or a foot, because otherwise it would be more difficult (and probably expensive) to engineer the limb robots to transform into both arms and legs with in-built hands and feet.

But at least the Energon limb robots are still Transformer toys in their own right - able to transform from vehicle to robot with personas of their own. The PCC Combiner limbs are just random vehicles which plug in and become limbs. And the gestalt form isn't that articulated or durable (I find the limb drones can pop off easily during excessive toy play). :(

And again... the PCC Combiners are expensive.

[Hursticon]

Beast Wars' gestalts had complete self-contained gestalt parts. Only the weapons were detachable accessories, and even then, they incorporate into the individual robots anyway. But otherwise _everything_ on those gestalts were self contained; it's impossible to lose a foot, hand or head for a Beast Wars gestalt, unless you actually break the robots (in which case they probably won't be able to combine anyway :p). God Neptune's an exception to this obviously, since he's a repaint of a G1 mould.

I forgot to mention the Beast Wars gestalts! :eek::p
These guys are also far superior, design/engineering-wise, to even the G1 gestalts for all the reasons that Goki points out. ;):)
I especially love Tripredacus for his awesome Silouette and Asymmetry. :D:cool:

[liegeprime]

Well theyve metnioned already most of the reasons why G1 wins Hands down. If the drones werent drones but rather blocky minicons (for example) that had a third alt mode that of a limb the PCC would been so much cooler as the drones have such interesting altmodes ( vehicle or otherwise) but as limbs they suck baaad. Some dont even look like a decent limb at all, they look like broken parts flexing. ALso have a gripe with the blue lock ports, in G1 these were usually the head or a chest/back piece that you can pop but dont really need to stand out - blends with the figure. but the blue coloring they did for the PCCs are just out of place ruining a good looking figure. When I read the reason for the blue is to make it easier for the kids today to identify that these is the connector part.. sheesh how stupid does Hasbro think kids are these days:rolleyes: kinda demeaning.. we were all kids once Im sure it doesnt take long for a kid to figure that connector out without the bright blue colors.

I enjoy PCC on their own right as theyve come up with interesting new modes and coz I like minicons. But the combiner drone gimmick is just .. lame, they shouldve just gone for minicon partners (two pack set) then the individual bots you collect have the ability to combine into a decent gestalt with a combined weapon and armor of the minicon partners now that wouldve been an awesome concept... except I guess with Hasbros budget for each toy would kill the idea.

Imagine if every PCC commander can transform into either a decent limb or the central body and their minicon partners combined a gestalt weapon or armor for the PCC commander gestalts - now wouldnt that have been better.

But going back to the discussion, yup G1 still wins for all its blockiness and limited mobility.