Movie Review - Transformers 3 : Dark of the Moon (spoilers)

[SkyWarp91]

-snip-

Great comic strip lol!

Megatron is truly the master of evil plans in BAD TIMING heheh

Given some more time to think I've realized that with Bay's previous history of big action flicks that have been box-office smashers I shouldn't expect heavy plots with deep character developments with the Transformers. I know that some people may argue that just because a movie is made by Michael Bay it doesn't mean he can't include a good storyline/well developed characters - in the end I don't think he cares what script he is given, he just wants special effects and it's a style of film-making that seems to be working as he makes the big bucks. There's a reason why Michael Bay's name is often seen proudly with his movie titles, it's because when audiences see that they can expect his movies to deliver with so much action that they get their bang for the buck.

Everyone I know that is only a fan of TFs by Bay movies enjoy the movies because they deliver so much in terms of action and entertainment and whenever I tell them that Bay is no longer directing the Transformers movies they sigh and tell me that the franchise will be crap without him. Some people want robots filled with emotion, others want robots that create mass destruction. To each their own.

I still don't like the abrupt editing of DOTM, nor the fact that SAm went to robot heaven in ROTF but I am VERY grateful now for the fact that Bay's movies have been action masterpieces.

[Sleeve]

Comprehensive timeline (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Movie_timeline), taking into account all the comics and books along with the movies.

[GoktimusPrime]

That is a funny one. :)

But consider the following canonical facts:

+ Sentinel Prime was initially the mentor of both Optimus and Megatron until it is discovered that Optimus is part of the dynasty of the Primes and is therefore a Prime by "birthright" - something which Megatron does not agree with (preferring meritocracy over nepotism)

+ The Fallen's sarcophagus is uncovered at an excavation site (at Simfur?) - the sarcophagus is covertly kept by Megatron who communes with the Fallen and becomes his secret apprentice. Eventually Megatron forms the Decepticon empire and conquers Cybertron.

+ Under orders from the Fallen, Megatron builds the Nemesis. The Fallen's sarcophagus is placed inside along with the majority of the Decepticon forces to find the Matrix. The Fallen leaves Cybertron with Megatron commanding a greatly reduced Decepticon army, tasked with defending the AllSpark.

+ The reduced Decepticon empire has trouble maintaining control over Cybertron -- the Autobot resistance gains power and civil war erupts. The AllSpark is ejected into space.

+ The Nemesis detects the AllSpark's energy signature and begins following it.

+ Having lost contact with the Nemesis and the Fallen, Megatron makes a secret pact with Sentinel Prime... Sentinel Prime would use his Space Bridge technology to travel to Earth and locate the last Star Harvester and with it, the Matrix of Leadership. (I'm not sure if this is because Megatron had assumed the Nemesis to be destroyed and thus changed his plans, or if he was still holding out hope that the Nemesis still survived somewhere and was planning on betraying Sentinel Prime later on -- my guess is the former).

+ The Nemesis is hit in a blind collision by the Ark (which would have been hurtling toward Earth, as that was its initial destination before being shot since Sentinel Prime was going to travel there to retrieve the last Star Harvester) - leaving a space bridge portal in its wake (after all, Sentinel Prime was attempting to open up a Space Bridge portal in the first place to travel to Earth). With the Nemesis crashed on a dead planet, the Nemesis orders Soundwave to take the Decepticons from the Nemesis aboard the Longshot and pursue the Ark through the Space Bridge.

+ Megatron leaves Cybertron in pursuit of the Cube. On the way he detects the Nemesis' emergency beacon and goes to find it. The Fallen is furious that Megatron has made a detour and orders him to resume chase of the AllSpark.

+ Millennia later, Soundwave returns to the Nemesis having recovered a pillar from the Ark. The Fallen tells Soundwave that Megatron is on Earth and uses the pillar to escape his sarcophagus (which he had been imprisoned in by the last of the original Primes).

+ After the events of the first movie and before Revenge of the Fallen, the Decepticons uses another pillar to jury-rig his own Space Bridge in (as seen in "The Reign of Starscream").

+ Megatron makes a secret pact with Sentinel Prime... Sentinel Prime would use his Space Bridge technology to travel to Earth and locate the last Star Harvester and with it, the Matrix of Leadership.

Edit: ah damnit Sleeve! :p You made that post while I took ages to type the above! (mostly cos I kept getting interrupted by my daughter :p) -- aaah, I don't wanna delete all that now, but anyway... Sleeve's link provides a more comprehensive explanation (I probably should've looked at TFwiki for something like that before typing up my own timeline :p :p)


Everyone I know that is only a fan of TFs by Bay movies enjoy the movies because they deliver so much in terms of action and entertainment and whenever I tell them that Bay is no longer directing the Transformers movies they sigh and tell me that the franchise will be crap without him.
The Transformers franchise existed long before Michael Bay came along - and while the Bay franchise has certainly given the franchise a massive boost, the franchise was already doing pretty well before him anyway. The one thing that really brought Transformers back to life was Beast Wars, which made Transformers massively successful in 1996-97 after the TF franchise was nearly killed by Generation 2 (1993-95); remember that by 1997-98, Transformers had become the 3rd top selling boys toy line after Toy Story and Star Wars. It was the success of Beast Wars that sent the Transformers franchise from strength to strength - leading to Car Robot/RiD, then the Unicron Trilogy, Binaltech/Alternators etc etc., and of course, the movie franchise.

The movie franchise took an already strong and popular Transformers franchise and made it even more popular, I will definitely give Michael Bay kudos for doing that. But I hold greater respect for Beast Wars which took a virtually dead Transformers franchise in 1995 and made it strong and popular again. :)


Some people want robots filled with emotion, others want robots that create mass destruction. To each their own.
It depends if you want to see Transformers as actual characters or if you're just happy to see giant effing robots stomping and transforming around the place. The casual audience member may enjoy the latter, but I'd say most of the long-term fans would prefer the former.

It depends if the story-teller just wants to make a story that people will enjoy today but maybe lose interest tomorrow, or stories that people can enjoy long into the future. Sure, watching giant transforming robots in action is pretty damn cool -- and Michael Bay has directed some freakin' GREAT action scenes with them. I love how he gives them that immense sense of scale with that fast and furious fight action. With other Transformer series like G1, you often don't get quite the same sense of scale -- but with Michael Bay, he constantly reminds you that these are giant effing robots, and humans are just ants among them! :D

But if you look at most of the long-time fans of the Transformers mythos, like long-time fans of G1 or Beast Wars... I'd say for most of them it was the quality of the story writing that sustained most of them. The people who are only fans of Bay's Transformers... I wonder how long they will continue to be die-hard fans of Bayformers, or if their interest will span onto other Transformer franchises (and thus become fans of Transformers in a wider sense), or if they'll stop being fans of Transformers altogether. How many of them will continue to be die-hard fans of the Bay-franchise only for the next 15-25 years?


but I am VERY grateful now for the fact that Bay's movies have been action masterpieces.
I'm also grateful for the action-fest of the movies, and I'm also delighted that the Bay franchise has given Transformers such a massive boost in popularity (which in itself has been a mixed blessing, but overall it's been a positive impact).

[griffin]

Comprehensive timeline (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Movie_timeline), taking into account all the comics and books along with the movies.

Yeah, I posted that in the 'on screen' universe timeline topic, to show how the comic writers have tried to explain all the stuff introduced in the movies... as well as all the other stuff they introduced themselves hoping that a later movie writer wouldn't contradict it (because they aren't bound by anything in peripheral items like the comics).

I mean, how many Arks were there... how many times did Dispensor and Barricade die... and how much of the distant past was 'retold' with sudden appearances of Soundwave and Shockwave...

And their literal interpretation of the 'Sentinel Prime's Ark being "lost" in the beginning of the movie had them showing it destroyed in the prequel comic... They shoulda checked with the Movie people first to realise that it wasn't 'lost' in that complete manner.
Or how about the carnage in Rising Storm to clear the stage for the 'on-screen' Movie cast? All those characters introduced in the last 4 years in the comic universe... and they still missed a couple (Arcee, Chromia).

(The big question will be, what will IDW do with Megatron, now that he lives in the 'comic' universe, but not the 'on-screen' universe?)

[GoktimusPrime]

I'd say the movie events retcon the comic ones as out-of-continuity.

[griffin]

+ Having lost contact with the Nemesis and the Fallen, Megatron makes a secret pact with Sentinel Prime... Sentinel Prime would use his Space Bridge technology to travel to Earth and locate the last Star Harvester and with it, the Matrix of Leadership. (I'm not sure if this is because Megatron had assumed the Nemesis to be destroyed and thus changed his plans, or if he was still holding out hope that the Nemesis still survived somewhere and was planning on betraying Sentinel Prime later on -- my guess is the former).


What was this in? The book or the comic? I don't recall any mention of him using his spacebridge before it was activated on Earth during the movie. In both versions of the Ark's 'loss', it was either completely destroyed (comic), or sent drifting lifelessly from Cybertron to Earth (Movie).
It sounds like a longwinded explanation by an author working off the movie script... a script that conflicts with events of the first two movies.




+ The Nemesis is hit in a blind collision by the Ark (which would have been hurtling toward Earth, as that was its initial destination before being shot since Sentinel Prime was going to travel there to retrieve the last Star Harvester) - leaving a space bridge portal in its wake (after all, Sentinel Prime was attempting to open up a Space Bridge portal in the first place to travel to Earth). With the Nemesis crashed on a dead planet, the Nemesis orders Soundwave to take the Decepticons from the Nemesis aboard the Longshot and pursue the Ark through the Space Bridge.



A blind collision out in space? From two vessels sent from two different points in time and space... unless there was a marked 'highway' between the two planets, the odds of that happening would be even less than all these items arriving on the same planet or star system. It's just so implausible, that seeing this sort of explanation in a book or a comic feels like a fan-made justification. It's almost an insult to our intelligence.



+ Millennia later, Soundwave returns to the Nemesis having recovered a pillar from the Ark. The Fallen tells Soundwave that Megatron is on Earth and uses the pillar to escape his sarcophagus (which he had been imprisoned in by the last of the original Primes).


That doesn't make sense, (if in a book or a comic), as the Decepticons didn't know Megatron was on Earth in the first movie, or else they would have found and rescued him decades ago.


I'm not trying to discourage people from reading the books or comics, as they are interesting in themselves. I'm also not rubbishing them either - as stated, I find them just as interesting and rewarding to read as they broaden the view on elements and characters.
I'm just saying that I'm finding the Movies a lot easier to understand without the comics, which puts a different, more implausible spin on things due to all the extra stuff they've introduced over the years.

[GoktimusPrime]

What was this in? The book or the comic? I don't recall any mention of him using his spacebridge before it was activated on Earth during the movie.
Mostly from the comics, though admittedly I've filled in some gaps...

In the comic adaptation of DotM Megatron states, "Sentinel was to seek out the last Star Harvester - to fuel our empire's expansion..." - so that was the purpose of the Ark's fateful voyage... it was going to locate the last Star Harvester, which was on Earth. So it's not beyond reason to assume that the Ark had Earth's coordinates locked into her navicomputer, and of course if the Ark was equipped with Space Bridge technology, why not use it to help travel to Earth?


In both versions of the Ark's 'loss', it was either completely destroyed (comic), or sent drifting lifelessly from Cybertron to Earth (Movie).
Yes, I'd say the image of the Ark being utterly destroyed is now retconned out-of-continuity by the events in the film.


A blind collision out in space? From two vessels sent from two different points in time and space... unless there was a marked 'highway' between the two planets, the odds of that happening would be even less than all these items arriving on the same planet or star system. It's just so implausible, that seeing this sort of explanation in a book or a comic feels like a fan-made justification. It's almost an insult to our intelligence.
If both the Ark and the Nemesis were tracking the Cube back to Earth, then there's a possibility that they may have collided into each other while following the AllSpark's trail. Still highly improbable, but a lot more probable than the Ark just randomly crashing into the Earth's moon for no apparent reason whatsoever! :p


That doesn't make sense, (if in a book or a comic), as the Decepticons didn't know Megatron was on Earth in the first movie, or else they would have found and rescued him decades ago.
The Fallen told Soundwave that Megatron had travelled to Earth, as per the Fallen's orders. Neither of them would have known what happened to Megatron after that. It's possible that when the Longshot arrived in the Solar System and approached Earth, Soundwave may have attempted to contact Megatron, but failing to receive a response presumed that he either never made it to Earth, or he'd somehow been destroyed since arriving.

I don't write this stuff, I just read it then try to make sense of it in terms of how it fits in with the films. If it makes more sense to you to disregard the comics, then go ahead and do it. :)

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I did enjoy that Spock played Sentinel Prime, and his line 'the needs of the many must outweigh the needs of the few'. Classic nod to Star Trek.

I got a bit tired of all the Star Trek references in it. Yeh, I got it when I heard his voice that he's Mr Spock as well. Thankyou. I think they over did it. I would have preferred it to have been left at the TV quote from Brains.

The "Needs of the many..." was too much for me, made me roll my eyes and think that the Transformers movies can't stand on their own as sci-fi, but need crossovers.. ROTF had the horrible 'apprentice' reference from the Fallen.

Still DOTM is a better movie than ROTF by a long shot

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Yeesh, if Katsuhiro Otomo can turn the Akira manga into a mere 2 hour anime which still makes sense (well, mostly) as a self-contained story, and Mamoru Oshii and Kazunori Ito can adapt the Ghost in the Shell manga into a coherent - and brilliant - film lasting less than one and a half hours, you'd think they (well, I suppose Ehren Kruger in this case) could at least write a third feature in a trilogy that is consistent with said trilogy, or even just the immediate prequel.
Even the Star Wars prequilogy did better than this, and that's a really low standard to be outdone by.:(

[Krittle]

HAHAHA that comic strip was completely awesome!!!!!:D:D MAJOR LOL!

[jimoinj]

Yes, I'd say the image of the Ark being utterly destroyed is now retconned out-of-continuity by the events in the film.



Aha! So every canon is equal, but some are more equal than others. :D

[Prowl]

Well I broke down & watched it with my missus.

A somewhat enjoyable if mindless action movie that left a sour taste in my mouth as I am a G1 fan first & foremost.

I have my own opinions on this fanchise & am not a fan of the style or substance (complete lack of) that makes up the movie series.

My girlfriends comments are quite telling as she is not a fan of Transformers more a tolerant bystander.

In all 3 movies I received the comments & questions after the movie or during the Blu Ray

Who is that?
Is he good or bad?
Why do they all look the same?
What the f**k just happened?
I like Bumblebee
The bad guys are all the same.
What was his name?
Is he good or bad?
This is so confusing.

She did figure out that the good guys have blue eyes & teh bad ones have red ones at least!

Bear in mind she will happily watch the G1 cartoon & knows the who the characters are etc.

I also found the Beyverse movie decepticons somewhat difficult to identify & I am a fan of Transformers.

In order to address this I watched the real TF movie last night with my missus & it was a far more enjoyable experience.

[Robzy]

Finally saw it.

In a word... Hmmm, I don't think I can sum up my feelings in one word. I didn't think Bay could do any worse after ROTF... I was wrong! I was very disappointed with DOTM and could explain why... but I really can't be bothered, because I've wasted 2½ hours on the movie already and I honestly don't care enough anymore.

The best part - at least I never have to willingly watch another Michael Bay film for the rest of my life :)

[5FDP]

Comparing the results of this poll to the second movie (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=4721), I think there is no question that DOTM was an improvement.

[Sky Shadow]

Comparing the results of this poll to the second movie (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=4721), I think there is no question that DOTM was an improvement.

It would be far more unquestionable if the polls were the same, though - there's a huge difference between a five-star rating system and a poll with four options, one of which is "excellent - must see." Obviously the film is a must-see for everyone here, but even people who thought it was good must know they'd be kidding themselves to claim it's a five-star film. Also, if you read the actual thread, the comments are far more favourable towards ROTF than this thread is about DOTM.


I didn't think Bay could do any worse after ROTF... I was wrong!

I agree. I suddenly have the urge to see ROTF again, because in my memory it's now become high art compared to DOTM.

[griffin]

I probably should have looked at what the previous poll format was like, to do the same with this one so that we could compare results.

If you pair up some of the options though, it seems that RotF was indeed hated more than DotM.
The top two brackets for RotF would be the same as 'Excellent - must see'
The next two would be the same as 'Good - see if you can'
The next two would be the 'average' rating.
And then the bottom four would be the 'disappointing' rating.

So RotF v DotM at this time:
Excellent - 10% v 43%
Good - 42% v 31%
Average - 26% v 19%
Disappointing - 22% v 6%

It's possible that the voting for TF2 was harsher because it failed to live up the expectations of the first one, while TF3 didn't have as high a benchmark to live up to, so was harder to disappoint those who lived through TF2.
Like that old saying - set your standards low, and you'll always impress. :p

[KillinSpoon]

- USA! USA! USA! Get that illegal nuclear facility in that coincidentally Middle Eastern country Autobots! For FREEDOM!

Seeing this in the movies, reminded me of a very special movie.
*Video has swearing in it.... lots*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcmuPc8_SWQ

[Paulbot]

It's possible that the voting for TF2 was harsher because it failed to live up the expectations of the first one, while TF3 didn't have as high a benchmark to live up to, so was harder to disappoint those who lived through TF2.

My expectations were definitely lowered after ROTF (which is just a bad film in general without also being a bad Transformers film). I think DOTM improved on all the things I didn't like in ROTF and I'm looking forward to seeing the third movie again tomorrow. Apart from an explanation as to how Megatron's back, not much is missed by skipping ROTF when watching the films.

[Hursticon]

Seeing this in the movies, reminded me of a very special movie.
*Video has swearing in it.... lots*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcmuPc8_SWQ

LOL, I love that film and yeah - That particular scene in DOTM certainly had a sense of that, but then, so do most US Military movies to me these days. :p
I mean, look at who won an Oscar between Avatar and The Hurt Locker... ;)

[chuttla]

i enjoyed the movie, opening scene was amazing! also was impressed when prime trailer turns into an armoury. final battle i think should have had more autobot fatalities and megatrons death was too sudden.

[Paulbot]

I went and saw the movie again this morning, in 2D this time and without the French subtitles ("Autobots allons-y!").

I enjoyed it on a second viewing which I didn't with ROTF, so points there.

Noticed many things I hadn't the first time which is always nice. Like: "Sidearm Sideswipe" near the end,the Spacebridge pylons the first time we see Sentinel in the opening, the three times the big armed Decepticon is seen, Que's vehicle mode, Soundwave's speakers in robot mode, the G1 theme song, Brawn in NEST HQ, how Carly's taunting of Megatron comes because she saw Sentinel Prime beating Megatron down earlier on the tower.

The tilting building does work better in 3D. In 2D it felt like it went on a bit too long. And there's a few shots in the car chase that are a bit better in 3D, but overall I don't think the 3D is an essential element of the film.

I reckon I'll see it again (in 2D) at the cinema before it's run is done.

[shokwave2]

I suddenly have the urge to see ROTF again, because in my memory it's now become high art compared to DOTM.

After watching DOTM twice, i watched ROTF on Blu-Ray again and i have to say that i like DOTM more than ROTF. Although ROTF had the best fight scene out of all the movies (Optimus vs Decepticons in the forest), and the best line (Optimus to The Fallen: "I rise, you fall").

Both films had plotholes, unanswered questions, and WTF moments but DOTM had more emotion and better visuals and score IMO. It was far from perfect but it had overall better scenes than ROTF.

Shockwave was a under used, and Megatron had too little screen time and a cheap death, but ROTF was worse due to the wasted Devastator (which could have turned into the biggest, baddest transformer instead of a crawling robot sloth) and crap humour (The Twins and humping dogs).

I'll definately be buying DOTM on Blu-Ray and i'll be watching it again.

[MECHA MALAKA]

first off ....HATED IT, secondly : why is it always general or casual fans or non tf fans will like it because of the action or the non transformer scenes? it seems to me that weather or not you like these movies comes down to weather or not you like watching CRAP ! I dont have a single friend that likes em and none are tf fans but I could tell you that a good story PLAYED OUT WELL in ANY medium would not only please them and myself but also give a live action TRANSFORMER film a better standing as a film in general.
Bay ONLY makes movies to the equivalent of "Pop music"

People will argue "no it's not crap because I like it",well I never argued your freedom to like CRAP!

[Ace]

first off ....HATED IT, secondly : why is it always general or casual fans or non tf fans will like it because of the action or the non transformer scenes? it seems to me that weather or not you like these movies comes down to weather or not you like watching CRAP ! I dont have a single friend that likes em and none are tf fans but I could tell you that a good story PLAYED OUT WELL in ANY medium would not only please them and myself but also give a live action TRANSFORMER film a better standing as a film in general.
Bay ONLY makes movies to the equivalent of "Pop music"

People will argue "no it's not crap because I like it",well I never argued your freedom to like CRAP!

thats a fairly swooping statement, im not sure whether you hated the movie, hated bay, or hated us tf fans that actually liked the movie? I think we all know its never going to be exactly what we want because it has to appeal to everyone to be successful, that means action, that means romance, that means humour etc. It has a plot, but obviously its not as strong as a lot of people would have like it. I agree the movie isnt perfect but surely there are some good points to it? you cant have hated all of it, otherwise you wouldnt be a tf fan?

[MECHA MALAKA]

thats a fairly swooping statement, im not sure whether you hated the movie, hated bay, or hated us tf fans that actually liked the movie? I think we all know its never going to be exactly what we want because it has to appeal to everyone to be successful, that means action, that means romance, that means humour etc. It has a plot, but obviously its not as strong as a lot of people would have like it. I agree the movie isnt perfect but surely there are some good points to it? you cant have hated all of it, otherwise you wouldnt be a tf fan?

the crappy context these rather good looking robots where used in! AND anyone who thinks these films "HAD" to be his way!
to appeal to whom? being successful for being a well written well told well played out well acted story and success from just being a popcorn flick are very different things
I find it embarrassing to tell people I'm a TF fan because off these films

[Ace]

the crappy context these rather good looking robots where used in! AND anyone who thinks these films "HAD" to be his way!
to appeal to whom? being successful for being a well written well told well played out well acted story and success from just being a popcorn flick are very different things
I find it embarrassing to tell people I'm a TF fan because off these films

Point taken mate, you don't think it deserved an Oscar. See there you go, at least you agree the robots look good :-) it can't all be bad. At least this movie gives the franchise an opportunity to stay alive. I'm pretty sure hasbro or takara wouldn't keep a franchise like this just for middle aged guys and gals that continue to love what brought us happiness as children. We should appreciate the fact that this movie allows revenue to create figures which represent our favorite characters as well as keeping the brand alive in the future for our children to love as much as we do.

[Sky Shadow]

I'm pretty sure hasbro or takara wouldn't keep a franchise like this just for middle aged guys and gals that continue to love what brought us happiness as children.

Considering they managed to keep it going for 23 years without the support of a live action film, I'm pretty sure they would have.

[Ace]

Considering they managed to keep it going for 23 years without the support of a live action film, I'm pretty sure they would have.

This is true Sky Shadow. I just wonder for how much longer would the franchise have stayed alive wthout the massive re-surging of interest into the brand due to the movie. Thus creating a new series with characters heavily styled like their movie counterparts (TF: Prime). Transformers alone has raised profits for Hasbro in the last quarter primarily due to the new range of movie toys made available. Now I am totally aware im getting off topic here and I apoligise for that! haha

What I really wanted to put across to Mecha Malaka was that the whole movie cant have sucked, there must have been parts that you did enjoy - i.e. the good looking robots as previously stated. I mean the simple fact that they have taken real vehicles and allowed them to turn into an alien race of robots is pretty freakin cool right? were there parts that you did enjoy?

[Gutsman Heavy]

If i enjoyed it because I had super low expectations, did I really enjoy it at all?

[1AZRAEL1]

People will argue "no it's not crap because I like it",well I never argued your freedom to like CRAP!

You're opinion to say its crap. My opinion says its not.

To each there own.

[Bartrim]

first off ....HATED IT

People will argue "no it's not crap because I like it",well I never argued your freedom to like CRAP!


You're opinion to say its crap. My opinion says its not.

To each there own.

Exactly Azrael. MECHA MALAKA it is your right to not like that movie but the last comment that I quoted isn't very polite. Maybe try wording your opinion a little more politely in future:)

[Demonac]

In defence of MECHA MALAKA, I don't think anyone has actually called this film 'good' yet.
People have enjoyed it, but it doesn't need to be good to be enjoyable (I enjoy watching lots of crappy movies. Not because they are good, but because they are fun).
I think that is what he is getting at.

If you think this is a 'good' movie...you probably need to see more movies! :P

[1AZRAEL1]

Well if it hasn't been said yet, I will say it now, I think it is good :p

(But I voted for excellent anyway :p)

[ike_ike]

i didn't vote.

i think it's a must see, but less because it's excellent and more because it's the last of the trilogy. strangely i found myself liking the first half waaaay more than the finale. probably because the whole chicago infiltration + building scene dragged on waaaaay too long; i was pretty much begging for the movie to end even at the climax of the robo bashings. i think there was a good movie hiding in there somewhere, but lawdy someone really, really needs to learn to edit better.

[5FDP]

Well if it hasn't been said yet, I will say it now, I think it is good :p

(But I voted for excellent anyway :p)

+1 ;) :D

[Hursticon]

You're opinion to say its crap. My opinion says its not.

To each there own.


Well if it hasn't been said yet, I will say it now, I think it is good :p

(But I voted for excellent anyway :p)

100% agree with you dude on both points as I also voted for Excellent. ;):cool:

It's always amazed me to see how many TF fans walked into these 3 movies expecting to see the equivalent of a G1-Schindler's List - I was personally just amazed that a Transformers movie was even made at all and have enjoyed these 3 great movies on that very basis. :cool:

Oh yeah, this 'crap' movie just topped $882,000,000 so evidently someone must've thought it was good. :rolleyes:

[Gutsman Heavy]

This movie is good like a double quarter pounder is good. Enjoyable but very bad for you.

[Ace]

This movie is going to be very close to topping 1 Billion dollars after it opens in Japan this week! I Definitely enjoyed returning to a cinema to watch the badass bots on screen for a third time :-)

[RageOnTheRoads]

This movie is good like a double quarter pounder is good. Enjoyable but very bad for you.

LOL!:D DOTM: the movie going equivalent of McDonalds

[Demonac]

Oh yeah, this 'crap' movie just topped $882,000,000 so evidently someone must've thought it was good. :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure there is no correlation between movie quality & box office take.
If that was the case, then Phantom Menace is the best Star Wars film, Crystal Skull the best Indiana Jones film, and Avatar the best film ever.

[5FDP]

I'm pretty sure there is no correlation between movie quality & box office take.
If that was the case, then Phantom Menace is the best Star Wars film, Crystal Skull the best Indiana Jones film, and Avatar the best film ever.

That's so true - Gigli (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=gigli.htm) was highly regarded as one of the best films ever and it only managed a meager $7,266,209 worldwide ;) :p :D

[Bartrim]

That's so true - Gigli (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=gigli.htm) was highly regarded as one of the best films ever and it only managed a meager $7,266,209 worldwide ;) :p :D

Wow:eek: It actually made that much:p

[Demonac]

That's so true - Gigli (http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=gigli.htm) was highly regarded as one of the best films ever and it only managed a meager $7,266,209 worldwide ;) :p :D

I think you misread what I wrote.
There is no correlation between movie quality & box office take.
Good films don't always bomb, nor do they become box office hits.
Likewise, bad films aren't always hits.
Box office take represents popularity, not quality.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying bad movies. One just has to accept it. :P

[SkyWarp91]

I think you misread what I wrote.
There is no correlation between movie quality & box office take.
Good films don't always bomb, nor do they become box office hits.
Likewise, bad films aren't always hits.
Box office take represents popularity, not quality.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying bad movies. One just has to accept it. :P

True that ^

There's one thing I know I'll be doing when I get DOTM on DVD, replay the 5 seconds of Carly's butt on screen AGAIN and AGAIN trololol :rolleyes::D

Btw Demonac, is that randomwebsite thingo your site or has someone hacked your signature?

[5FDP]

I think you misread what I wrote.
There is no correlation between movie quality & box office take.
Good films don't always bomb, nor do they become box office hits.
Likewise, bad films aren't always hits.
Box office take represents popularity, not quality.
There is nothing wrong with enjoying bad movies. One just has to accept it. :P

No, I understood completely what you wrote. I just don't think things are that 'black and white' and stating definitively there is no correlation between the "movie quality & box office take" is untrue. Good films will generate their own publicity.

[Demonac]

. Good films will generate their own publicity.

Marketing is what generates publicity.
Case in point: RotF. Director, writers, actors, producers have all called it crap. Reviewers called it crap. Most fans called it crap. Yet it still generated hundreds of millions. Why? Quality? Or was it marketed as the 'must see' movie that summer?
Good films will often make their money from dvd when word of mouth filters through.

[5FDP]

Marketing is what generates publicity.


Not necessarily. The Blair Witch Project made nearly 250 million in ticket sales worldwide without the Hollywood marketing machine behind it. Most of the promotion was done by word of mouth and the internet. I'm fairly certain they (the producers) made their money back.

[Demonac]

Blair Witch is a perfect example of marketing a movie to be a 'must see'.
The 'word of mouth' was generated by the studio themselves.

[5FDP]

A quick google search will reveal quite a few movies that were initially promoted via word of mouth only (regardless if this happens to be the creators or fans) with minimal marketing dollars behind it and went on to have box office success disproving a definitive statement of 'there is no correlation between movie quality & box office take’. Don’t get me wrong, I agree with much of what you are saying, I’m only trying to make the point that it’s not as definitive as you’ve made it out to be :)

We’ll just blame Hursti for starting this :p

[Demonac]

You are referring to what are called 'sleeper hits'.
These films generally start off slow, but week by week, build up the box office.
Let's have a look at TF3's U.S. numbers (via boxofficemojo)

Jun 24–30 $64,765,347
Jul 1–7 $149,210,077 +130% (film opened on 29th June)
Jul 8–14 $67,574,828 -54.7%
Jul 15–21 $32,239,198 -52.3%

Those numbers show a dramatic fall. That is a sign of word of mouth working against a movie.


Below are the numbers for 'Avatar', a film which generated positive reviews (I haven't seen this either).

Dec 18–24 $137,094,001
Dec 25–31 $146,530,209 +6.9%
Jan 1–7 $96,916,087 -33.9%
Jan 8–14 $69,926,708 -27.8%
Jan 15–21 $66,330,413 -5.1%
Jan 22–28 $47,674,969 -28.1%

You can see that the box office actually went up in the second week, and the drop off wasn't as bad in following weeks.

And yes, we should blame Hursticon!

[5FDP]

You are referring to what are called 'sleeper hits'.
These films generally start off slow, but week by week, build up the box office.

Correct.


Let's have a look at TF3's U.S. numbers (via boxofficemojo)

Jun 24–30 $64,765,347
Jul 1–7 $149,210,077 +130% (film opened on 29th June)
Jul 8–14 $67,574,828 -54.7%
Jul 15–21 $32,239,198 -52.3%

Those numbers show a dramatic fall. That is a sign of word of mouth working against a movie.

Harry Potter had a bigger fall and it was rated quite highly (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/harry_potter_and_the_deathly_hallows_part_2/) by both critics and audiences. I think it's more of a case of most people who want to see it, have seen it. Besides, I thought this whole conversation was about movie quality having no correlation on box office earnings... :confused:



Below are the numbers for 'Avatar', a film which generated positive reviews (I haven't seen this either).

Dec 18–24 $137,094,001
Dec 25–31 $146,530,209 +6.9%
Jan 1–7 $96,916,087 -33.9%
Jan 8–14 $69,926,708 -27.8%
Jan 15–21 $66,330,413 -5.1%
Jan 22–28 $47,674,969 -28.1%

You can see that the box office actually went up in the second week, and the drop off wasn't as bad in following weeks.

I would say it's a safe assumption that because the second week was the xmas holiday period, that would explain the slight rise.


And yes, we should blame Hursticon!

Hey, we agree on something :D Now let me buy you a beer!

[Demonac]

Just admit this film is shoddily made, but enjoyable! :)



Harry Potter had a bigger fall and it was rated quite highly by both critics and audiences.

Harry Potter has only been out for little over a week, so it's a bit early to judge.



I thought this whole conversation was about movie quality having no correlation on box office earnings
I brought up those numbers to show that even though a good marketing campaign can get bums on seats the first few days, if the end product fails to deliver then we see sharp drop offs after that.

And good point with Avatars xmas boost. But the fall was not as steep when it came.

Actually, having a closer look at films that bombed, it's more a case of media backlash for whatever reason that does the most damage to a films chances at the box office. Bad reviews never hurt no movie.

Off topic: I had a look at highest grossing films, and they are almost all sequels! What the hell happened to originality?

[SkyWarp91]

Off topic: I had a look at highest grossing films, and they are almost all sequels! What the hell happened to originality?

I think sequels get more money because you have more of an expected audience to watch them considering later home video/dvd releases on top of the cinema audiences. Also in that time between the original movie and sequel word of mouth and critic reviews can influence the anticipation of the next film.

[Robzy]

If i enjoyed it because I had super low expectations, did I really enjoy it at all?
No! :D


Well if it hasn't been said yet, I will say it now, I think it is good :p

(But I voted for excellent anyway :p)
I wonder how many people did the same thing?


+1 ;) :DQuestion (sort of) answered ;)

That's it then, isn't it; many TF fans are gonna say DOTM was brilliant, just to out-balance the haters/movie critics/general public. But, let's be honest... TF fans saying a TF movie is "Excellent/brilliant" doesn't necessarily make it so either...

[Decepticon]

I actually like the 3 Transformers movies better than any of the 6 StarWars movies because I'm a TF fan and not a SW fan. Personal interest is what makes someone like or dislike something.

[5FDP]

Just admit this film is shoddily made, but enjoyable! :)

NEVEEEEEER *shakes fist* :D

[SkyWarp91]

Just admit this film is shoddily made, but enjoyable! :)


The film maybe shoddily edited, but the action sure wasn't!

[MECHA MALAKA]

I actually like the 3 Transformers movies better than any of the 6 StarWars movies because I'm a TF fan and not a SW fan. Personal interest is what makes someone like or dislike something.

not entirely or at least not with everyone, I don't like every Holden I see tho I am a Holden man . I myself feel a film is more about "what happens" and story and how well a story is told more than its specific "theme"
your simplistic "I like Transformers and these are transformer movies so I like them bestest" rationale boggles my mind

[MECHA MALAKA]

The film maybe shoddily edited, but the action sure wasn't!

I was bored with the action. coulda been in 4D with friggen smellavision (5D?)
and it wouldn't have mattered or are you still talking about Carly's ass? lol

[Decepticon]

not entirely or at least not with everyone, I don't like every Holden I see tho I am a Holden man . I myself feel a film is more about "what happens" and story and how well a story is told more than its specific "theme"
your simplistic "I like Transformers and these are transformer movies so I like them bestest" rationale boggles my mind

That's why your mind gets boggled!.... You are a Holden man. I admit, there are problems with the story line but it's more than just a story. Its also the visual presence that a movie can deliver.

[Decepticon]

not entirely or at least not with everyone, I don't like every Holden I see tho I am a Holden man . I myself feel a film is more about "what happens" and story and how well a story is told more than its specific "theme"
your simplistic "I like Transformers and these are transformer movies so I like them bestest" rationale boggles my mind

That's why your mind gets boggled!.... You are a Holden man. I admit, there are problems with the story line but it's more than just a story. Its also the visual presence that a movie can deliver. There are heaps of films made with a good story. Doesn't mean I like it though.
I Like Transformer toys....... But doesn't mean I like EVERY TF toy.

[SkyWarp91]

Does Optimus Prime have something against the use of jetpacks? In ROTF he discards it after use and in DOTM it basically disappears as he flies into battle?

[Gutsman Heavy]

In ROTF he's basically wearing the skin of another Transformers, so unless he's Buffalo Bill-bot he'd probably want that corpse off him, in DotM it's basically a continuity issue. (in Transformers? NEVER! :P)

[Paulbot]

I thought that when he jets in and does that running slice and dice (as featured in the trailer) you could see the jetpack ejecting after he lands (which makes sense as it would get in the way during close combat melee fighting).

[To Punish & Enslave]

I have to say I went to see it with my son about fortnight ago. I could moan and complain about the movie story line. I ask myself did i realy expect a good story line? No I didnt. I have got to the stage that im just happy that Michael bay has done what he has done and produced 3 great movies with some of the best computer generated formers ever. I actualy thought that DOTM had some realy good action scenes that i could easily follow this time round. As a transformer fan since the 80s I think Michael has done us proud. I will never forget in the original 2007 movie seeing optimus transform for the first time wow great stuff.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Watching it again. Did anyone else notice in the part when Sam is in the hanger, Just before Starscream blows up the Xanthium, that the ID tag on the jet is the same as Blackouts from the first movie? 4500X

[5FDP]

Watching it again. Did anyone else notice in the part when Sam is in the hanger, Just before Starscream blows up the Xanthium, that the ID tag on the jet is the same as Blackouts from the first movie? 4500X

Yeah, it's on Michael Bay's private jet too... apparently where the reference comes from.

[LordCyrusOmega]

Yeah, it's on Michael Bay's private jet too... apparently where the reference comes from.

And here I was thinking I was being clever.

[SharkyMcShark]

I rewatched this on Saturday (because apparently I now have a blu ray player).

It's still terribly paced. My folks watched bits of it with me and my dad ended up asking about an hour in "Why do we care about this kid and his job search?" (because all that had happened by that point was the Chernobyl thing with Shockwave).

And then my mum said "Why does Michael Bay have such good actors being absolute penises in this film?". Couldn't help but agree.

[Doubledealer]

I rewatched this on Saturday (because apparently I now have a blu ray player).

It's still terrible.

Fixed. :D

[SkyWarp91]

I rewatched this on Saturday (because apparently I now have a blu ray player).

It's still terribly paced. My folks watched bits of it with me and my dad ended up asking about an hour in "Why do we care about this kid and his job search?" (because all that had happened by that point was the Chernobyl thing with Shockwave).

And then my mum said "Why does Michael Bay have such good actors being absolute penises in this film?". Couldn't help but agree.

Hey man don't call John Malkovich a Penis. He is BOSS.

[SharkyMcShark]

Fixed. :D

:D to be fair that was my original post but then I thought I'd elaborate

[Demonac]

I finally got around to watching this.
This 'film' is aggressively stupid. I found the only way to survive it was to treat it as a parody of those overblown soulless action films. If that was deliberate, well done Mr. Bay.

[Sky Shadow]

This 'film' is aggressively stupid.

I don't think you even needed the adverb in that sentence. :)