Movie Review - Transformers 3 : Dark of the Moon (spoilers) [Archive] - Ozformers Transformers Club of Australia (otca.com.au)

STL

29th June 2011, 04:07 AM

I'm going to run counter to the suprising stream of positivity here. This movie was the worst of the three. Special effects / scale? Excellent. Action sequences, some cool moments, but overall just random robots or humans running around. Apart from that, I've seen chuck on the sidewalk better than this.

The acting from Carly was terrible. The opening scene set the tone of the stupidity of the character (and the movie). Her boss becomes a very one dimensional figure and goes very quickly downhill from there.

The dialogue? I'm sorry, I'm an amateur writer at best, but this was worst than fanfic. Think the chief woman / former CIA Agent. Her lines felt so forced.

That's not to say there weren't a couple of interesting things. The angle on Sentinel Prime was very interesting and I did not see it coming at all from having the toy and whatnot. What did piss me off was Sentinel Prime all of a sudden turning his back on Optimus. If he wanted to beat Optimus up and kill Autobots, why pass back the matrix of leadership? Again, it tarnishes what is a nice touch and makes it so undefiably stupid.

Mum and dad? Less than funny this time, maybe snuck in one or two one liners but useless noise.

The human bad guys were retarded to. Seriously, who would take those guys as threats or even consider them to be real? They're just caricatures, no character work at all.

Starscream blind? That was stupid. Prime being suspended helplessly and NO ONE targetting him? More stupid.

Wheeljack? Thank god someone killed him. F--- was he annoying.

Megatron getting a pep-talk from a human? WTF? Didn't he have a whole master plan? He just wanted to be retarded and go along with Sentinel?

Oh and one handed Optimus easily dispatches Megatron? Okay, great fight / fatality sequence - but that easy? Come on.

Wheelie and his little friend were quite funny. I did not mind them at all. Probably one of the few positives from the movie.

Ironhide dying did not bother me. I think it raised the stacks (as it should in the final instalment).

Big point of disappointment is they did try something quite strong thematically with Sentinel here. However the connection between him and Optimus are quite significant here. I would've loved it to be taken it further Because that's the concept of war there, what happens with combatants, different sides have different objectves? Unfortunately, it was only very superficially addressed.

Oh and who is the Red Autobot Car in the movie (not hatchback)

And Ratchet's clearly a sh!t doctor. Three movie's and BB's still speechless.

Lack of characterisation? Really hurts this movie. Even more so when they poorly execute other characters that did develop as characters like the ice queen Fed, Sentinel going bad, Shockwave. Hell Laserbeak had more personality than Shockwave.

Sam going job hunting did not bother me. I did mind tho his whole character growth angle of "I'm more than messegner". Stupid, stupid. If they explored it from how does someone move back into normal life, that would've been great.

People clapped at the end of the movie here. I really didn't understand that. Stupid

As a fan, I'd be slightly more generous b/c some of the cool action scenes and Optimus really gets to shine. Bumblebee has an awesome fight sequence, very kinetic. The struggle for Cybertron and what it means is great.

If I had to sum it up, childish, cheap, and cringeworthy. Yes, it was a Michael Bay movie and I expected it to be average, but Bay outdid himself and delivered a movie even worse than the second one.

Congratulations, Mr. Bay.

Lord_Zed

29th June 2011, 04:10 AM

Loved it!
Rosie did an excellent job.
good!

I was surprised by how much I didn't hate her, yeah some of her lines were not entirely convincing, and there were still gratuitous shots, but she didn't give of the same porn star vibe that miss Fox did.

Iacon's Demise

29th June 2011, 04:17 AM

In a word: Brutal

Why ? I'm talking Awesome Brutal. It's transformers on the big screen man...

Some of the kills rival that of Mortal Kombat. I liked it but to each their own. I seriously SERIOUSLY think that some movie makers need a die hard fans input. Take Spiderman 3 for example....

MeisterROB75

29th June 2011, 04:29 AM

SkyWarp91

29th June 2011, 04:53 AM

SPOILER INFESTED REVIEW. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

Just got back from seeing this movie.

I was very optimistic about this movie and though it's still flawed in some ways - the positives were good enough for me to think of it as a well-done Bay movie that does tie up the TF-Bay era trilogy.

Can't believe it's actually come to the end of the Michael Bay era. The era that actually got me to love Transformers again after being brought up on KOs. I'll miss Bay directing TFs for sure :(.

SPOILER INFESTED REVIEW. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

Here's my review:

- ACTION ACTION ACTION. OH MAN SO MUCH METAL ON METAL ROBOT ACTION. The Chicago Finale lasted for like more than an hour - most of it was great but the only thing that I disliked was the poor flow of the editing. You had intense moments, slow, slow, intense, slow - though that could be said to be like real warfare for a movie it can get boring / but come to think of it I was eager to see what would happen next as the pace was so random. Also there needs to be a longer cut of this scene despite being already so long - for instance there's a scene where BB saves Sam and next second he is captured off-screen, HOW? This long finale in many ways reminds of The Seven Samurai classic, though I'm not going to compare both in quality I see the similarities where the major finale rages on for such a long time as there's the intense cycle of attack and retreat between both sides that keeps you on the edge of your seat.

- The plot this time around is much better than ROTF. I still can't forgive ROTF for sending Sam to Prime Heaven.

- The editing. For some reason the flow of editing seemed really off in DOTM compared to the last 2 movies. You had a couple of scenes where the film would black out so quickly like a trailer and some shots were made so short for unnecessary reasons. The flow of the music also just didn't gel so well.

- The showdowns are so brutal this time around and if there's one thing we've learned it's this - If you intend to kill Optimus Prime, don't TRY so many times because he's going to get pissed and rip your head out or shoot you dead so many times. I liked how the showdowns were that tad-bit longer than ROTF.

- You actually see the robots get more screen-time this time around which is cool - they get more dialogue - more action scenes BUT even then Decepticons barely said anything. Lazerbeak spoke more than Soundwave himself, Sentinel Prime was talking of his plans to save Cybertron on a skyscraper to no-body half the time and Shockwave, who's apparently meant to be the main villain this time around said like 2 lines!

- I like the new look of Cybertron!

- The dialogue is much funnier this time around. And I liked how Sam's mum pointed out he's dated/dating 2 supermodel-women in his life lol.

- I like Sam's arc for DOTM, this time he's out of college and transitioning his way out into adulthood with an existential crisis - where he feels he doesn't matter anymore compared to his 'prime' days back in the last 2 movies, which saw him still at educational institutions. Because my young-adult years to adult years have been in era of Bay;s TF movies I can relate to Sam very much.

Overall for a TF movie I enjoyed this one much more than ROTF but it didn't have the wow factor that the 2007 did.

griffin

29th June 2011, 04:54 AM

I was quite disappointed, and actually preferred the 'Adventure' theme of the second one over this. Perhaps it's a combination of factors for me that spoiled it so much, but I was expecting a lot more than what I saw, in terms of plot and characters.

We had more distinguishable Decepticon Characters in the second one, and again we had characters thrown in without any explanation of who they are, and where they are from. I'm kinda glad that IDW wrote a couple of prequel comics to try to explain this mess and plot holes... but they shouldn't be necessary. The movie should stand on its own, and was written without any intention of having comics written as prequels to it. As mentioned at BotCon, Hasbro was the middleman on this, so when the script was written, then IDW would have started working on their own.

The first scene with Carly was cringe-worthy, and reinforced Bay's opinion of female characters - they're just there for boys to drool over. So many of her shots were focused on her body, even when something else was happening or being said.

Starscream's death was cheap, and I felt that at least he should have lived for a fourth movie.
It was nice to see the loose end of Barricade finally being wrapped up (his absence in TF2), but he ended up being no more than cannon fodder like the rest of the troops.

I thought Shockwave would have had a more prominent role than just appearing twice and shooting at things. This was a big disappointment.

Wheelack (called Que, after the Bond character of the same purpose - maybe a nickname) seemed underused.
Mirage (called Dino) had a bit of screen time, but was more of a supporting cast member like Sideswipe and Jolt in TF2.

Cybertron was completely different this time to how it was 'drawn' in the first movie. Last time it was a jagged surface and structures - this time it was entirely honeycombed in appearance.

The inclusion of Sam's parents was forced, and didn't pay off too well. There were some great lines/laughs, but this time it didn't fit too well with the more serious theme/feel of this one.

Sentinel's betrayal... this was meant to be the big surprise in TF3 and I had it spoilt by accident, thanks to a kids activity book that shouldn't have even mentioned that he betrays the Autobots. It had a short blurb on each character, and that was the only thing they could think of to say about Sentinel? Up until that point I had managed to avoid anything significant, including that... and without experiencing that 'shock moment' at least once, left a big hole in the point of the movie. With nothing else surprising to make up for it, I guess I was just left with a movie that played out like the Titanic sinking.

One thing I liked - I had totally forgotten about Sentinel being voiced by Leonard Nimoy, so it was really neat hearing him take on a TFs role 25 years after his last one (Galvatron). There were two nods to his Star Trek character - Spock was on a TV that Wheelie was watching, and he used a famous line of his from ST2 & 3... 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'.

I also liked that the Robots weren't the supporting cast this time. They were the main storyline, and featured as much or more than the human cast.

Damn, has John Malcovich aged or what? I thought his character was amusing, but inconsistent (especially when he acted strange around Bumblebee).

Overall, I didn't find it boring, but it doesn't inspire me to see it too often. I liked the first one most due to it being 'a new thing' and wasn't too bad with the story, and I liked the second one for the adventure, but this one comes in third for me.

I recommend people see it, at least once.

KillinSpoon

29th June 2011, 05:12 AM

You're just jealous that your makeup can't stay THAT good even though you've been through the middle of a warzone...

Also, laserbeak transforms from a painting? Wait... what?

Prime_217

29th June 2011, 05:17 AM

Ithoughtit was great aside from shockwaves involvement. And laser beak transformed into a plasma screen on the wall not a painting

The humor was great! One of the funniest movies I have seen that wasn't an actual comedy specific movie.

Rosie was great

I loved it, I already booked my tickets to see it again tomorrow

SharkyMcShark

29th June 2011, 05:48 AM

Back from the Perth midnight screening.

Eh. It had all the same faults as the second except the writing was decent this time around.

I actually liked the Wreckers - the United Kingdom accents suited them (esp. Roadbuster). I felt finally the right balance between human and robot dialogue was achieved, although was a bit let down that Shockwave, Soundwave and Dino didn't get more (or any in Shockwave's case) lines.

Was quite disappointed with the role of Shockwave - I spent the entire time waiting for him to bust out some line about logic but was let down when he was offed without making anything but grunting noises.

I didn't quite follow the ending - it was/is 3am but why did Prime randomly off Megatron? This caught me slightly off guard as in all the adaptations he made peace after finishing Sentinel Prime, whereas in the movie he basically randomly killed him after Megatron helped him.

As I said, basically RotF with competent writing. It still had the same problem of the end set piece going for so long that by the time it ended I really didn't care why it began. It also felt overly long. I'll probably see it again at some point but I'm not really in any rush because it more or less went for three hours, and don't feel it's worth that kind of time a few days after seeing it.

SharkyMcShark

29th June 2011, 05:52 AM

What I mean by the Megatron thing is that Sentinel Prime has Optimus at his mercy, then Megatron pops up and starts shooting him with his robo - sawnoff (ie saves Prime) and then the next thing Prime is wailing on Megatron and then takes his head off.

That's what it looked like through my bleary eyes at 3am.

Also Bay is a bastard for some on screen slow motion robo cranium destruction.

Decepticon

29th June 2011, 08:23 AM

You mean Bumblebee didn't die? Nooooooooooooo:(
God he is annoying

1AZRAEL1

29th June 2011, 09:01 AM

Loved it. Thought it was great. Unexpected things, glad I avoided most footage until seeing it on the big screen.

Bartrim

29th June 2011, 09:47 AM

Sounds like there is quite a bit differrent to the novel. Can't wait to see it tomorrow night.

GoktimusPrime

29th June 2011, 11:07 AM

My overall thoughts:

+ BRUTAL! (Phwoar!!)

+ More consistent story than ROTF

+ Far less immature stupid humour - no urinating, no humping, no drugs, no farting*, no enemy janglies! Some of you might sight that toilet scene, but at least that scene contributed to the plot (i.e. Sam obtaining information about NASA/Moon mission). The boss coming in wasn't absolutely necessary, but it's a bit of light-hearted humour which helps break the tension. And it wasn't overtly drawn out or overdone IMO.

+ Was better at capturing the spirit of the G1 cartoon than ROTF, which is what made TF1 so enjoyable for me. Although whereas TF1 captured the spirit of "More Than Meets The Eye," as Paul Agnew said, DOTM captures the spirit of episodes like "The Ultimate Doom" and "Megatron's Master Plan" -- especially the former.

+ The movie was more engaging and didn't drag on like ROTF.

+ Sentinel Prime: wow! What an awesome plot twist! Totally did not see that coming! Nice one. :) Also noticed that he killed Ironhide with Cosmic Rust! :eek:

+ Not all scenes are 3D, but for the ones that were, I thought the 3D was well done (and I'm not usually a fan of 3D movies). If you're a fan of 3D, it's worth watching, but otherwise I don't think you're missing out on a huge deal if you watch it in 2D. *shrug*

+ Wheelie and Brains were pretty cool. So... they survived, right?

+ Shockwave: massive disappointment. Did he even transform?!? :confused: Bugger all characterisation... he was just "random scary robot with giant tentacle monster." Right.

+ Wreckers: not overtly cool, but not bad either. They play their part well and are fun characters in their own right. I like how they explain why we haven't seen them before, lol. :)

+ Simmons: Fun character. As collectors we can all probably empathise with his obsessive-compulsive nature, hehehe.

+ Interesting to see that humans have improved in learning how to fight Decepticons since ROTF. The membrane-gliding and sky-diving scenes were freakin' awesome -- and there must've been a helluva lot of CGI done to modify that too, because Julie White explained that the scene was shot with stunt actors leaping off the top of Trump Tower then parachuting down before flipping out their guns to attack something (I suspect that last part must've been cut). But to go from shooting a straight vertical drop to having them "fly" through several city blocks must've required some significant special effects work.

+ Que (is he meant to be Wheeljack??) - the character I don't mind so much... but what's with that f'ugly wannabe Einstein head?!? :eek: And... did he transform??

+ Dino... cool action character, but erm... why isn't he called Mirage? Does "Dino" mean something cool in Italian?

+ Barricade's back laaaadies(man217)!!

Michael Bay, please don't leave the franchise. Though if you are, then you have made the perfect send-off. 12 out of 10 from me.
The Empire Magazine article said that Bay won't be doing any more TF films, and I have mixed feelings about this... cos a new director might be a good or bad thing depending on who they get and how s/he performs (it could be a case of better the devil you know). <shrug> Still, Bay's already had a shot at 3 movies, time to give someone else a turn I say.

The acting from Carly was terrible.
Considering that she's not a real actress, I thought she did alright. But yeah, they should've just gotten a proper actress. (-_-) But I think we all know the reason why she got the part :rolleyes:

That's not to say there weren't a couple of interesting things. The angle on Sentinel Prime was very interesting and I did not see it coming at all from having the toy and whatnot.
+1

What did piss me off was Sentinel Prime all of a sudden turning his back on Optimus. If he wanted to beat Optimus up and kill Autobots, why pass back the matrix of leadership? Again, it tarnishes what is a nice touch and makes it so undefiably stupid.
I hadn't thought about that, but perhaps he was hoping that Optimus would come to agree with him and join his cause to save Cybertron. I think Sentinel was disappointed that Optimus was unable to make "the hard decisions" and was willing to sacrifice Cybertron for Earth.

Also, in the event that Optimus does defy Sentinel, Sentinel probably thought that he would just defeat Optimus and take the Matrix back by force anyway. Sentinel's portrayed as a far superior fighter than Optimus.

Mum and dad? Less than funny this time, maybe snuck in one or two one liners but useless noise.
They offered guidance to Sam in terms of his relationship with Carly - and of course, he endured a lot of save her. Again and again and again (there sure was a lot of catching!). At least their presence contributed to the story, unlike say the pointless scene in ROTF with his parents on campus... (-_-)

The human bad guys were retarded to. Seriously, who would take those guys as threats or even consider them to be real? They're just caricatures, no character work at all.
I thought they were believable... fear's a great motivator. ;)

Starscream blind? That was stupid.
Yyeeeaaaahh... part of me agrees with you there, because even dogs will continue fighting with their eyes out. (eye-gouging is seriously one of the most overrated moves in martial arts)

But maybe the Transformers are particularly sensitive to pain in their optic sensors?? Although we've seen Transformers with half their faces smashed off who keep battling on... maybe Starscream's just a beeotch. :p

Prime being suspended helplessly and NO ONE targetting him? More stupid.
Not implausible. He seemed to have landed in an isolated part of the city and the Wreckers were working on cutting him down. <shrug> It's convenient, but not impossible.

Wheeljack? Thank god someone killed him. F--- was he annoying.
+1. F'ugly too.

Megatron getting a pep-talk from a human? WTF? Didn't he have a whole master plan? He just wanted to be retarded and go along with Sentinel?
90% of a fight is psychological.

Oh and one handed Optimus easily dispatches Megatron? Okay, great fight / fatality sequence - but that easy? Come on.
Quick fights = realism. And being quick doesn't necessarily mean it was "easy."

Oh and who is the Red Autobot Car in the movie (not hatchback)
The red Ferrari is Mirage^Dino -- pronounced "Dee-no" like freakin' Fred Flintstone's pet dinosaur. :rolleyes:

Hell Laserbeak had more personality than Shockwave.
+1 QFT.

I was willing to look past those Bay staples: the lingering shots of the bimbo (especially annoying for gayformers like myself!),
Yeah, we had some guys wolf-whistling during those scenes. *sigh* Hardly surprising though considering the gratituous shots we had of Mikaela in the previous films.

For example, Rosie Huntington-Bimbo chides Megs like he's a snotty little kid and he doesn't crush her like the bimbo bug that she is? C'MON!!
Heheh, that's what I thought too... but I guess she must've hit a nerve and for a moment he had enough respect for this "insect" to have pointed this out to him that he decided to spare her life - probably because he was more concerned with getting Sentinel. Besides, if his plan succeeded, she would've been one more slave for him to use. :)

Sentinel is already a Rosenbauer when he's been on the moon for 50 years?
How do you know he was already a fire engine? He never transformed until after he was revived on Earth. NEST probably gave him a fire engine to scan (like they did with the twins in ROTF).

One positive: laserbeak was pretty cool.
Heh, yeah... and you can see why Hasbro gave him that weird VTOL alt mode - cos making a movie-accurate toy where Laserbeak can transform into a photocopier, TV, pink Bumblebee etc. would be hell hard (especially as a Deluxe)!! :eek: But Laserbeak's robot mode looked the same even when he acquired all those different alt modes.

We had more distinguishable Decepticon Characters in the second one, and again we had characters thrown in without any explanation of who they are, and where they are from. I'm kinda glad that IDW wrote a couple of prequel comics to try to explain this mess and plot holes... but they shouldn't be necessary. The movie should stand on its own, and was written without any intention of having comics written as prequels to it.
+1.

Starscream's death was cheap, and I felt that at least he should have lived for a fourth movie.
Maybe they're paving way for Thundercracker to shine. :) Although if Michael Bay directed it, he'd be called "Acid Storm" or something else completely random like... "T".

Cybertron was completely different this time to how it was 'drawn' in the first movie. Last time it was a jagged surface and structures - this time it was entirely honeycombed in appearance.
Perhaps it's a different part of Cybertron. Earth has varied topographical features, why can't Cybertron?

Sentinel's betrayal... this was meant to be the big surprise in TF3 and I had it spoilt by accident, thanks to a kids activity book that shouldn't have even mentioned that he betrays the Autobots. It had a short blurb on each character, and that was the only thing they could think of to say about Sentinel? Up until that point I had managed to avoid anything significant, including that... and without experiencing that 'shock moment' at least once, left a big hole in the point of the movie. With nothing else surprising to make up for it, I guess I was just left with a movie that played out like the Titanic sinking.
Ouch.

Lucky for me it wasn't spoiled... but yeah, it's like knowing the Darth Vader is already Luke's father when watching Empire for the first time.

There were two nods to his Star Trek character - Spock was on a TV that Wheelie was watching, and he used a famous line of his from ST2 & 3... 'the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few'.
I didn't notice the Spock thing (I'll have to keep my eye out for that on Saturday), but I did chuckle and clap when he did the "needs of the many" line. Nice. :)

I also liked that the Robots weren't the supporting cast this time. They were the main storyline, and featured as much or more than the human cast.
YES!!

Overall I quite liked this movie and I can't wait to see it again on Saturday! Last night's meet was heaps of fun too, but I'll post photos and comments about that later. :)

----------------------------
*We didn't see or hear anyone farting in the film, although Julie White explained at SupaNova that the big dog, which is Michael Bay's dog, is extremely flatulent - and during the scene where Sam and the dog enter the big Winnebago, the dog wouldn't stop farting and stank up the entire caravan. :)

MeisterROB75

29th June 2011, 11:13 AM

You're just jealous that your makeup can't stay THAT good even though you've been through the middle of a warzone...

Also, laserbeak transforms from a painting? Wait... what?

Granted, a couple of LB's transformations were kinda silly.

And it was quite an achievement on my part not to leave the screening with my mascara running down my cheeks . . . so definately no jealousy there!

Lord_Zed

29th June 2011, 11:29 AM

Spoilers......

Alright, had some sleep now, and some time to think, Soooooo my verdict.... well overall I wasn't disappointed, but maybe that's because ROTF lowered my expectations and we have a Revenge of the Sith effect, where it feels like this movie is good because it's a little better than the first one. of course lets not kid ourselves its still a brain dead action flick like everything else Bay has ever made.

So I liked that the robots seemed to play a bigger part in this movie, only one Decep got taken down solely by humans and even then it was the main character human with TF weapons, unlike others I wasn't particularly bothered by Sam beating Starscream, Starscream chased him for the last two movies seemed fitting in a Hollywood sense he'd get his own back.

I liked that the Decepticons were actually brutal invading aliens this time wiping out innocent humans, something only alluded to in all other TF media. At least we had reason to cheer the Autobots brutal combat with the Decepticons, unlike last time where they didn't appear as evil.

I managed to follow the plot a bit better this time than in ROTF, but there were still many quick cuts, and weird time lapses that boggle the mind (or was it because it was so late, but Carly seemed to be at that party for a few days???). I also liked that some plot elements reminded me of the toon, although at the same time it was as simplistic as the toon.

I liked that you finally had most of the big names in Decepticon town in the one movie, like others I wish that Shockwave had done more, but there are so many characters so little time, at least it took the combined efforts of humans, Autobots and Prime to fell him. I also like the way the Decepticons appeared to communicate between each other in their native tongue.

I liked that we got a chase scene again, considering transformers so often turn into cars. Bumblebee Transforming and catching Sam, that did actually impress me on the action stakes.

I really liked that I was surprised twice by the movie, once with Sentinel and then again with the goal of their plan.

And I really really really liked that we went a whole TF movie without a joke about bodily functions, giant dildo TF's, wrecking Balls or Bumblebee urinating on people.

And then on the flip side.

I dislike the cutting, the movie jumped around a little to much in some parts, I had trouble figuring out where we were, it could be because it was late though.

The ending was just a little too neat, like a Doctor Who ending, destroying that one little pillar thing seemed to banish Cybertron and all the Decepticons in to some black hole thingy and save the world from being overrun. I guess it's no worse than the matrix, but still......

Yes I agree with the others on Michael Bays inability to actually cast decent female actresses and treat them as anything more than eye candy. I found Rose whatshername less annoying than Megan Fox, but still jeez...

And then there are the other things, like all the usual bay follies, but I guess I built up an immunity to some of them.

As usual there was no real character development (as I'd expect from Bay). Given it was the fate of the Transformers race being fought for, I would have liked to see some soul searching from Prime, or some regret, but no he is in full protect the humans Autobot Jesus mode the whole way through, sigh missed opportunity again.

It bugs me a bit that Autobots seem to turn up on time exactly when they are needed, hardly a surprise but it seemed to convenient considering they were wholly incapable of turning up on time to save Optimus in ROTF.

This movie doesn't gel all that well with ROTF given that 4 Autobot characters are absent from the film (I would presume dead) On the other hand is that may be a good thing or a bad thing I'm not sure, very glad two of those characters are gone. :D

So would I recommend it, well if you weren't a big fan of the first one and absolutely hated ROTF then no. I however you liked the first one and could bare watching ROTF then yes, I far prefer this to the previous film, but onlt because it corrected some of the massive issues I had with the last film.

At the end of the day though it's still a brain dead alien invasion flick like so many others, but it has Transformers so I like it more than I should.

Back from the Perth midnight screening.

I didn't quite follow the ending - it was/is 3am but why did Prime randomly off Megatron? This caught me slightly off guard as in all the adaptations he made peace after finishing Sentinel Prime, whereas in the movie he basically randomly killed him after Megatron helped him.

Cause Michael Bay wanted to go out with a bang and burn his bridges? (kinda like he was saying this is my TFverse, if you want to make another one do it from scratch) That's what I think anyway. I agree with you though, I thought it would make more sense if Megs got sucked up into the giant space whirlpool.

+ Wheelie and Brains were pretty cool. So... they survived, right?

I thought they died, at least from their comments, I wish the same thing had happened in the animated film.:D

But maybe the Transformers are particularly sensitive to pain in their optic sensors?? Although we've seen Transformers with half their faces smashed off who keep battling on... maybe Starscream's just a beeotch. :p

Bayverse Starscream is a beeotch, he's not as arrogant as his predecessor and more of a yesman, I figured he would have an ignominious death some day

Heheh, that's what I thought too... but I guess she must've hit a nerve and for a moment he had enough respect for this "insect" to have pointed this out to him that he decided to spare her life - probably because he was more concerned with getting Sentinel. Besides, if his plan succeeded, she would've been one more slave for him to use. :)
)

Or maybe it was cause of brain damage from the freaking hole in his head, or the spiderbots crawling around in it.;)

As an aside I really dug Megs look, That toy is soo bought by me when the Big W sale starts.

MeisterROB75

29th June 2011, 11:39 AM

How do you know he was already a fire engine? He never transformed until after he was revived on Earth. NEST probably gave him a fire engine to scan (like they did with the twins in ROTF).

An epic review of the reviews, Goktimus!

RE: SP - I may be corrected on this, but I recall noting that when OP picked him up in the ark, he already had the colouring and parts of the fire engine - those triangular windows most notable. Anybody else notice? To have windowscreens on him wouldn't be keeping with the first movie's aesthetic of their original forms. But, then again, the issue of continuity is nothing new.

bowspearer

29th June 2011, 12:11 PM

I reached the conclusion a long time ago that what was missing from the LAMs in terms of their substance was a shot of Michael Bay popping up on screen every single time there was an explosion:

http://www.latinoreview.com/images/stories/articles/michael_explosion.jpg

With the mouth and eyes animated Robot Chicken style and
this (http://www.thanatosrealms.com/war2/sounds/orcs/goblin-sappers/annoyed2.wav) dubbed in via ADR.

Tallestblue

29th June 2011, 12:34 PM

It wasn't terrible. It was lightyears better than ROTF. I mean, it's Michael Bay film so I'm not expecting Shakespeare. I enjoyed thoroughly and will probabaly see it again.
Also Meisterrob do I really have to call myself a "Gayformer"? I'm putting out "Friend Of Arcee" as a much better descriptive term...

1AZRAEL1

29th June 2011, 12:42 PM

Paul Agnew

29th June 2011, 12:54 PM

One thing I want to add was, where was Silverbolt? I just realised James Avery was due to give his voice for him, but I can't recall seeing/hearing him. Could be that his scenes were deleted, but I'm just curious to see if anyone else noticed him absent.

Yes, that's an good point. Whatever did happen to this "Silverbolt" character? Was he changed to Que/Wheeljack?

Bartrim

29th June 2011, 12:55 PM

One thing I want to add was, where was Silverbolt? I just realised James Avery was due to give his voice for him, but I can't recall seeing/hearing him. Could be that his scenes were deleted, but I'm just curious to see if anyone else noticed him absent.

Apparently it was a place card for Sentinel Prime in the DOTM video games. So look for him there.

Gutsman Heavy

29th June 2011, 01:12 PM

My vile hatred for ROTF is well noted, disgusting film. DotM was the sequel we should have got. It's far from perfect, but turned out much better than expected.

Pro's
-Wheelie continues to endear himself to me at every turn, love that little bastard. Hope he lived.
-Soundwave having a much larger role was nice.
-Loved Laserbeak.
-Wreckers (mostly Leadfoot) Were a nice addition to the movie, was expecting "hi & die" (Wreckers that didn't die!?)
-Barricade's cameo.
-Less jump cutty fights (probably due to 3D not working as well with erratic images)
-Ironhide's death, not that I wanted him to die, but it caught me off guard and actually shocked me, I did not expect to care about a death in this film, but I did, well done.

Con's
-Random bots with no point (Igor and Megatron's "babies") Don't want them exorcised from the film, just wished they had a point.
-Megatron being largely irrelevant to the film as a whole, his death felt rushed.
-Brains just being there, seems more odd than other new 'bots since he was living with Sam at the beginning.
-No Steeljaw :(
-Ferrari Demanding the Dino name

Random Thoughts
-Ahh Shockwave, disappointing to so many, I was expecting him to be characterless cannon fodder but would have been disappointing if I expected anything else, so I empathise.
-No Silverbolt, I was expecting him a no show, but was still a tad disappoint.
-Hmm Dino didn't have a weaponised mode, me thinks corporate red tape.
-Where to from here? Sequel? Reboot?
-I swear I saw the Twins making up the rear of the convoy as it first enters the hanger/base, where's mah money Bay!? :P

Final thoughts
Pleasantly surprised!

3.5 Faces out of 5
(TF1 4/5)
(RoTF 1/5)

Awesome seeing it with REAL fans this time!

Lint

29th June 2011, 01:16 PM

Hi all. I rarely post on here but like all of you I'm an avid TF fan. So, after just seeing DOTM at the melb central midnight screening I thought I'd start this thread for those of us who need to vent their slight dissapointment or near psychotic rage over the F@$%^D UP MESS THAT IS DOTM!!!

Now, I didn't want to listen those naysayers out there (and certainly didn't want to be one of them) who I've told myself were just Bay haters or wouldn't allow themselves to appreciate a fantastical SFX extravaganza such as what I figured DOTM would be. I was willing to look past those Bay staples: the lingering shots of the bimbo (especially annoying for gayformers like myself!), the lack of character development, the poor narrative, the lame humour (which I actually don't mind, I must say!) and just enjoy the show. But, as a fan of TF from way back, I'm afraid I can't appreciate this film for being just that when it involves such an inconsistent and incongruous narrative and the character assasination of our beloved bots and cons. For example, Rosie Huntington-Bimbo chides Megs like he's a snotty little kid and he doesn't crush her like the bimbo bug that she is? C'MON!! Sentinel is already a Rosenbauer when he's been on the moon for 50 years? And my heart just about shot out through my ass when I learned the Dino was Dino and Q was Q. EEERGGHHHH!!! It was pretty down hill from there for me.

Those are just minor examples as I don't want to include 'spoilers' for those who haven't seen it yet and may read this. IMO, at the end of the day, DOTM does suffer from the same inadequacies as ROTF did.

I'm sure many of you will enjoy this for just what it is - a SFX blockbuster and as that it is fine. Your enjoyment can only be facilitated by not having to sit between constantly fidgetting, commentating, popcorn feed masticiating mammals and a lack of concern for how TF is interpreted by Bay.

One positive: laserbeak was pretty cool.

Hope you can enjoy DOTM more than I did!

Since my expectations and care-factor were rock bottom, I enjoyed the film overall. But I do have my irks.

CONS
-The continual emasculation of Megs as a character.
-Zero character development for Starscream and Shockwave, but yet quite a bit screen time is devoted to their fates, especially compared to the fate of Megatron and Sentinel.
-Anti-climactic ultimate showdown between Prime & Prime & Megs
-Spending too much time sliding across floors of a building which seemingly defies the laws of physics.
-Wtf is with that matrix
-Patrick Dempsey's character being overbearingly loyal to the Cons cause despite the elimination of their primary leverage over him.
-The fact that Prime (and to a degree other Autobots) get to live on due to the mercy/carelessness of others but he achieves victory by being brutal and mercilessly decisive. This ones just a personal irk of mine regarding characterization.:p

PROS
-Laserbeak upholding a reputation for being the most competent Con ever.
-I thought the first half of the film was actually pretty good theatre. Revealing the conspiracy, Sam's personal issues/woes, Sentinel plot twist etc, etc.
- Nice special effects
- Decent comic relief
- Ken Jeong & John Malkovich were hilarious. Numerous other appearances by lesser-known actors whom I love.

Sleeve

29th June 2011, 01:51 PM

(Skids & Mudflap - both filmed and included in original script/comic, but not included in final version of Movie)

LIES! They're at the back of the line when the Autobots drive into base. I wonder what I'll spend my $25,000 on? :)

Oh, and I suppose I should put in my two cents worth. LOVED IT. People can whinge, bitch and moan about it all they like because yes, I know it does have its faults, but I thought it was fantastic, and when it comes down to it the only opinion of the film I really care about is my own. Regardless of what people say about it, be it good or bad, it's not going to change what I think. I looked forward to it, I wasn't disappointed, and I am content.

griffin

29th June 2011, 02:12 PM

Saw it a second time (6 hours after the first one), and didn't really pick up on anything that was missed first time around (a great movie is one in which you keep seeing new stuff with each viewing).

I like the Optimus Trailer concept - it beats the Gen1 concept of optimus driving around with an mostly empty trailer that rarely served a purpose. Here it was his mobile armoury, which had all his guns, swords, shield and flightpack. The JP Voyager Optimus Trailer now makes more sense, in the way it's gimmick was to store mechtech weapons... but I can't see a toy version working (a solid panel trailer converting to a ring with weapons. We'll certainly see customs coming out of that though.

KillinSpoon

29th June 2011, 02:37 PM

Just randomly...

No Bay TF movie would be complete without a scene with Josh Duhamel sliding across the ground shooting a gun.

ITZTRU

29th June 2011, 03:37 PM

Not sure if this was mentioned (yeah ok, I rushed through a lot of the "longer reviews" coz there was a bit too much to read in one post...)

however...!

I loved the scene they borrowed from "Atlantis, arise" (I'm pretty sure it was that episode?) when Megatron destroys the Lincoln memorial statue and sits in the throne!

Freakin' awesome! :D

1AZRAEL1

29th June 2011, 03:41 PM

I loved the scene they borrowed from "Atlantis, arise" (I'm pretty sure it was that episode?) when Megatron destroys the Lincoln memorial statue and sits in the throne!

Freakin' awesome! :D

Yes, that was indeed a pretty wicked scene. I had forgotten that bit.

Lord_Zed

29th June 2011, 04:01 PM

I also assumed he smashed Lincoln because it was symbolic as he was the great emancipator and Megs wanted slaves, Mbay and the writer couldn't be that smart though, could they? but yeah that was a good image.

Having though about it I'm conflicted now, there was some great imagery and transformery stuff I really liked, but on the other hand it was almost as dumb as ROTF.

LIES! They're at the back of the line when the Autobots drive into base. I wonder what I'll spend my $25,000 on? :)

I thought I saw that but I can't confirm, on the other hand they never transformed so maybe they were the twins twins? :p What's more perplexing is I clearly recall them saying after that there are 9 Autobots left, which leaves no room for the Twins (not to mention Arcee and Jolt).

Tropisetron

29th June 2011, 04:09 PM

1AZRAEL1

29th June 2011, 04:12 PM

Just a small addition:

Love the fact that they used the Gen1 transforming sound for some of the robot-vehicle vice versa transformation. I recalled clearly the scene bumblebee transformed nearing the end of movie with it.

I too remember that now as well. Damn lack of sleep messing with my brain. That was a cool addition. Almost like the first transformation in the first movie starts it all, then the last transformation in this one ends it all :p

Sutton

29th June 2011, 04:45 PM

Within the context of the Bay universe, this was the best one, hands down. It's definitely the closest he's come to actually making a Transformers movie, as opposed to an action movie with TF's in the background like the first 2.

It felt like a proper Sci-Fi movie, whereas the previous two felt more like fantasy-adventure films.

I've got a bunch of problems with it, sure, just like everyone else, but overall it's a pretty solid action movie. And repeat viewings will likely improve it further, I feel, because the biggest problem I have is how densely packed a movie it was.

christalcase

29th June 2011, 04:45 PM

Went in and watched it without high expectations, I was still a bit disappointed :(, the movie felt so different to the first two, that it seemed to me it didn't fit. I found myself bored for the first hour or so while the plot was being set up.

Ironhide's death caused by Sentinel Prime's betrayal came to me as a shock and big surprise, didn't really see that one coming.

My biggest gripe by far is Starscream's death, come on, death by two humans?!?! That feels so demeaning of the character who's been in an important role in the first two movies. Even Shockwave, who was an epic disappointment (that guy basically didn't do anything), got the honour of being killed by Optimus Prime.

Then there's Megatron, who doesn't get much screen time at all, he didn't do much either, with the main villain being Sentinel. That was disappointing too, Megatron joins the fight for a few mins right at the end and gets easily killed by Optimus Prime immediately. I found myself wondering, why did they bother...

Also didn't like the alien spaceships, it doesn't feel very Transformers to me, it feels like another generic alien invasion technique (for lack of a better term). Shockwave's worm thing (Driller) was lame, the building being destroyed in half was lame, the Stealth Force modes were lame (to me anyway, the transition to the big screen wasn't as great as I expected) and Sam should have died a dozen times already with all the situations he's been in (especially when the Orbital Spaceship thing crashed with him on top).

I think the biggest problem for me was that the action didn't justify the movie like it did for ROTF, in terms of just the action, explosions and what was happening in the climax of the film, I felt DOTM was worse. A few scenes I couldn't follow what was happening, probably coz I didn't pay enough attention.

I was surprised at all the (brutal) deaths in this one, and finally more Autobots died instead of only just Decepticons. It was quite cool that there were quite a few references to other aspects of Transformers.

Oh, and we didn't get to see Optimus put on his Jetpack transforming from the trailer, I was looking forward to a scene like that and would have loved it but it wasn't to be... The ending was very abrupt too, so quick that I was like, "Huh?! It's finished!?".

Overall, I think it's worth watching, but DOTM was the only one in the Trilogy where I walked out after watching and felt disappointed. The first movie is by far the BEST, while I can't decide whether ROTF or DOTM is better (ROTF has better action sequences, while DOTM is more coherent). Really really really annoyed by Starscream's and Megatron's death though.

SkyWarp91

29th June 2011, 06:04 PM

If you guys watch Transformers, ROTF, Bad Boys II and DOTM you'll notice something - The way the first movie and ROTF are filmed and edited are very similar to each other in that the pacing of cuts and editing of music follows the flow of the storyline, despite ROTF having such an incoherent plot. Both movies I felt had so much better editing done, even ROTF which kind of also had an abrupt ending too.

The way DOTM is edited together is so similar to Bay's Bad Boys II in that the shots and how they are cut together are so out of sync to how the story flows which actually kind of ruins all those explosions and robot kills. Michael Bay is a great special effects visual artist, in fact the best of Hollywood and his editing had improved so much since Bad Boys II when the 2007 movie and ROTF came out but in 2011 with DOTM I can notice that his bad editing habits have returned.

After some rethinking this is a good conclusion to the Bay Transformers era. And good is a generous enough term for me but like Christalcase I had very high expectations of this movie as Bay and co had said that the issues of ROTF would be fixed in DOTM - well to a certain level they were right as the story was more coherent but at the same time the movie suffered from faults that you'd think Michael would have learned from in the past.

Zippo

29th June 2011, 06:14 PM

Watched the movie this afternoon and loved it!
Much better than the second, not sure about the 1st as it has been a while ..

SkyWarp91

29th June 2011, 06:26 PM

isn't there a movie review thread for this already?

Gutsman Heavy

29th June 2011, 06:50 PM

Always have low expectations kids, you'll never get disappointed, mostly be right or be pleasantly surprised. Win-Win-Win.

Lord_Zed

29th June 2011, 07:14 PM

My biggest gripe by far is Starscream's death, come on, death by two humans?!?! That feels so demeaning of the character who's been in an important role in the first two movies. Even Shockwave, who was an epic disappointment (that guy basically didn't do anything), got the honour of being killed by Optimus Prime.

Then there's Megatron, who doesn't get much screen time at all, he didn't do much either, with the main villain being Sentinel. That was disappointing too, Megatron joins the fight for a few mins right at the end and gets easily killed by Optimus Prime immediately. I found myself wondering, why did they bother...

Also didn't like the alien spaceships, it doesn't feel very Transformers to me, it feels like another generic alien invasion technique (for lack of a better term). Shockwave's worm thing (Driller) was lame, the building being destroyed in half was lame, the Stealth Force modes were lame (to me anyway, the transition to the big screen wasn't as great as I expected) and Sam should have died a dozen times already with all the situations he's been in (especially when the Orbital Spaceship thing crashed with him on top).

As I said before I had no issue with Starscreams end, the way he's portrayed in the previous movies is just as some misrable yesman who is kicked around by Megatron, powerfully he may be in the air, but he's still and idiot.

Megatron on the other hand did deserve more, specially when he had such a cool new look and scared Elephants. I think it was Bay just trying to tie it all up as a "screw you" to whichever poor director picks up the mantle next.

.... and Sam should have died a dozen times already with all the situations he's been in (especially when the Orbital Spaceship thing crashed with him on top).

+ 1, Totally agree with you about the crash, my suspension of disbelief got me past the other stunts, but not that one, geez he could have at least jumped clear, crashing aircraft doesn't kill anyone in Hollywood no more.

After some rethinking this is a good conclusion to the Bay Transformers era. And good is a generous enough term for me but like Christalcase I had very high expectations of this movie as Bay and co had said that the issues of ROTF would be fixed in DOTM - well to a certain level they were right as the story was more coherent but at the same time the movie suffered from faults that you'd think Michael would have learned from in the past.

Bay doesn't learn ever, he just makes occasional minor concessions he's like George Lucas in that way.

FFN

29th June 2011, 07:42 PM

I was really, really disappointed. I perhaps dislike this more than ROTF if only because of the wasted opportunity, and it seems that Bay didn't learn from his mistakes with ROTF, and to a lesser extent, the first movie.

The film starts off beautifully. The opening sequence with Cybertron is awe-inspiring. This is perhaps the first depiction of Cybertron that deserves an Autobot's description of it being a beautiful world that was later ravaged by war. It's alien, but it's logical and makes sense. The following scenes set in the 1960s are also very well done. Bravo.

However, once the film moves to Chicago, it stops being fun. It's just a random collection of explosions and scenes edited in a haphazard manner with little or no continuity (how did Bumblebee know where Sam and Lennox were? How did Bee and the other get captured by Soundwave, Barricade and co a few minutes later? When did Optimus go back for his jetpack after his trailer was wrecked? Why didn't Shockwave finish Optimus off when he tangled him in the crane cables?)

One thing I give Ethren Kruger props for is research. The name of the Autobot ship on Earth being maintained by the Wreckers is the Xantium, which was the name of the Wreckers starship in IDW's Stormbringer comic book. I was pleased by that.

BannoBenny

29th June 2011, 09:25 PM

All I have to say is "WHYRONHIDE?!" Why did Ironhide have to be killed! :( he's my favorite character from the movie series. Could have got rid of Ratchet. Other than that this movie was massively awesome and I can not wait to see it again!

loophole

29th June 2011, 09:35 PM

this movie actually made sense therefore i like it, seriouslythough i did enjoy this except that the cinema did have the volume loud enough i could sworn that they turned it down a notch near the start

theheretic

29th June 2011, 09:40 PM

-=Spoiler alert=-

Literally just saw the movie. Fantastic! It was SAAWEEEEET! I loved every moment of it (excluding that scene where "Carly" was standing there in slow motion with explosions going off everywhere... Move woman!) It was a bit sad to see ALL the decepticons die and Iron Hide be murdered. Loved the plot twist BUT would a prime really do that? Made for a good story anyway. I'll be going to see it again and possibly again again :-D

Megatron2

29th June 2011, 09:52 PM

i just got back from 3d gold class viewing and date night with the misses at Charlestown square here in Newy.
I must say i quite enjoyed it for what it was..an awesome array of special effects and mindblowing action scenes.
I think,as with the previous 2,it suffers from "let us get this cool character in it and not give him any characterization development"
I think only Optimus gets that treatment..but in a backwards way.He starts out ALL G1 and in the final movie is total badass and NOT so forgiving ;)

SPOILER ALERT...in a SPOILER THREAD.

I only had seen the tv spots and trailers,hadnt read any spoilers....so it came quite a shock to see Sentinel turn traitor....and also to see the numerous Cons die...Ironhide too.God knows what happened to Wheelie and the other dude Brains..but anyways...the part with Soundwave and Bumblebee has this great window of opportunity for the ultimate death as everyone probably had become attached to bee being he had had most of the screentime in the movies....but they dropped the ball...oh well :)

4th movie???I dont think so....reboot??hell yeah.

Megatron2

29th June 2011, 09:56 PM

oh...i was stoked to see James Remar as the voice of Sideswipe...i didnt know that!
So cool

GoktimusPrime

29th June 2011, 10:02 PM

zOMG, Prime's trailer is so freakin' cool! I love the way it opens up to form a combat deck like original G1 Prime's trailer! Although the way it opens up is probably would make it jolly hard to recreate as a toy.

I also assumed he smashed Lincoln because it was symbolic as he was the great emancipator and Megs wanted slaves, Mbay and the writer couldn't be that smart though, could they? but yeah that was a good image.
I thought it was intentional. <shrug>

I thought I saw that but I can't confirm, on the other hand they never transformed so maybe they were the twins twins? :p What's more perplexing is I clearly recall them saying after that there are 9 Autobots left, which leaves no room for the Twins (not to mention Arcee and Jolt).
Jolt and Elita-One (as well as Galloway) were killed by Shockwave in the prequel comics. Still doesn't account for Arcee or Chromia though. Unless they stopped counting them after Elita-One was killed, cos ya know... they no longer had a complete set. They would still count as 2 under the Universal Counting Method though. :p :p :p

Just a small addition:

Love the fact that they used the Gen1 transforming sound for some of the robot-vehicle vice versa transformation. I recalled clearly the scene bumblebee transformed nearing the end of movie with it.
Yeah, that's been around since the first Transformers movie -- a lot of the movie Transformers have some variation of the G1 transforming sound when they transform, but it's not always noticeable... depends on how much they've changed it and layered other transforming sounds on top of it.

I think in one of the DVD special features someone claimed that all of the transforming sounds in the movies have the G1 sound incorporated... dunno if that's really true -- could be, but perhaps beyond recognition in some cases <shrug>

Ironhide's death caused by Sentinel Prime's betrayal came to me as a shock and big surprise, didn't really see that one coming.
+1. I was picking my jaw up off the floor!

My biggest gripe by far is Starscream's death, come on, death by two humans?!?! That feels so demeaning of the character who's been in an important role in the first two movies. Even Shockwave, who was an epic disappointment (that guy basically didn't do anything), got the honour of being killed by Optimus Prime.
I don't see what's necessarily wrong with a Transformer being killed by humans. It's happened before... Blackout was killed by humans. Now you might argue that the humans who killed Blackout had a Sabot round launcher and F22s, but Sam was using Cybertronian tech made for humans (courtesy of Quejack). Even in G1 you had Decepticons like Icepick who was taken out by a booby-trap set by human guerrilla resistance fighters in New York.

Also didn't like the alien spaceships, it doesn't feel very Transformers to me, it feels like another generic alien invasion technique (for lack of a better term). Shockwave's worm thing (Driller) was lame,
I don't mind the alien looking ships -- the Transformers are aliens after all! The Driller was pretty cool, but I would have preferred a big-arse Transformer... like another gestalt! Or have Shockwave transform and blow stuff up like he did in G1! Shagga-fragga-DOTM-Shockwave-fragga-shagga-ActionMaster! :mad:

...and... why are the Decepticons piloting fighters? Shouldn't they just transform into them?! (o_O) I can understand having large starships for long interstellar voyages like the Ark, Nemesis, Xanthium etc., but for short range combat... come on, they should just transform.

the Stealth Force modes were lame (to me anyway, the transition to the big screen wasn't as great as I expected)
This isn't entirely new -- the Autobots were able to deploy weapons in their vehicle modes since the first movie. Look at "Cannon Bumblebee" (i.e. Bumblebee deploying rocket launchers when attacking Brawlastator in TF1). Stealth Force feels like an upgrade of what they initially had anyway.

and Sam should have died a dozen times already with all the situations he's been in (especially when the Orbital Spaceship thing crashed with him on top).
What about Carly?! Is she one lucky gal or what!?!?!? :eek:

Oh, and we didn't get to see Optimus put on his Jetpack transforming from the trailer, I was looking forward to a scene like that and would have loved it but it wasn't to be... The ending was very abrupt too, so quick that I was like, "Huh?! It's finished!?".
Yeah, there's actually no evidence in the film that the jetwing is even the trailer itself. It doesn't have any alt mode kibble like on Ultimate Optimus Prime. It seems that the Jetwing is actually a separate piece and not the trailer itself.

Megatron on the other hand did deserve more, specially when he had such a cool new look and scared Elephants.
LOL! :D

I think it was Bay just trying to tie it all up as a "screw you" to whichever poor director picks up the mantle next.
At least he didn't transform Cybertron into a technorganic garden. ;)

However, once the film moves to Chicago, it stops being fun. It's just a random collection of explosions and scenes edited in a haphazard manner with little or no continuity (how did Bumblebee know where Sam and Lennox were? How did Bee and the other get captured by Soundwave, Barricade and co a few minutes later?
These things didn't bother me - I just assumed that they happened off screen while other events were happening. Perhaps there wasn't enough time to put in scenes that explained them, but I didn't personally think it was absolutely necessary.

When did Optimus go back for his jetpack after his trailer was wrecked?
Yeah, this did stand out to me. But again, I guess it wasn't completely necessary either (cos Prime did say that he wanted to get to his trailer for the fight tech)... I just would've loved to see his trailer open up again, heheheheh.

Why didn't Shockwave finish Optimus off when he tangled him in the crane cables?)
I guess it depends where he crashed... I'm gonna have to watch this part more closely when I see the movie again on Saturday.

GoktimusPrime

29th June 2011, 10:44 PM

Disappointed? Hell no! Much gooder than ROTF (reasons for which I've already mentioned on the DOTM movie review thread) and I felt that it did capture the spirit of the G1 cartoon quite well. Of course, the G1 cartoon always did have fairly shallow stories with bugger all character development (which is why I'm more of a fan of the comics) -- but I guess the cartoon is more popular with the non-fan movie-going public. The movie exceeded my expectations, so I'm happy. :)

isn't there a movie review thread for this already?
Indeed. And this thread has been posted in the Movie News section. (<_<) <awkward.Squirtle>

christalcase

29th June 2011, 10:58 PM

I don't see what's necessarily wrong with a Transformer being killed by humans. It's happened before... Blackout was killed by humans. Now you might argue that the humans who killed Blackout had a Sabot round launcher and F22s, but Sam was using Cybertronian tech made for humans (courtesy of Quejack). Even in G1 you had Decepticons like Icepick who was taken out by a booby-trap set by human guerrilla resistance fighters in New York.

There's nothing wrong with a Transformer being killed by humans, it's just that Starscream got killed primarily by one human, Sam, whereas Blackout gets killed by a whole team of humans with a lot of weapons. Blackout put up more of a fight, whereas Starscream's death was so pathetic and he's supposed to be a pretty formidable opponent. Even with Q's weapons, it was painfully easy for Sam to kill Starscream... I just felt ripped off as I always thought he would die under the hands of an Autobot.

Lord_Zed

30th June 2011, 12:05 AM

Maybe Starscream's overconfidence got the better of him? I'ts still better than Daniel tap dancing on Snapdragons head.:)

Jolt and Elita-One (as well as Galloway) were killed by Shockwave in the prequel comics. Still doesn't account for Arcee or Chromia though. Unless they stopped counting them after Elita-One was killed, cos ya know... they no longer had a complete set. They would still count as 2 under the Universal Counting Method though. :p :p :p
.

Which series? I may actually buy it, there's room for a decent story between the two movie, alas IDW fumble the ball as much as Bay and co does.

4th movie???I dont think so....reboot??hell yeah.

Nononono, not a reboot either, forget Transformers the next movie will be Challenge of the Gobots the Cy-Kill Menace.:D

On the subject or Primes Trailer, does anyone else think it was built out of jetfire bits? :p

Just another note, I really liked the scene where Megs was hiding out with the elephants, rouging it and laying low, the only problem is it didn't make all that much sense with the rest of the movie. I was thinking/ hoping that Shockwave was the new Decep boss and Megs had become a castaway, this would actually have made the plot make more sense, if Shockwave had forged and alliance with Sentinel, and sent the Decep army to the moon, at least that's what would have happened in my personal fanfic.

I also liked those weird Cybertronian creatures and spiders that hung out with him, I assumed they were just examples of the Cybertronian ecosystem that migrated to earth with the Deceptions, much like rats and other pests.

Mr Ed

30th June 2011, 12:42 AM

I just got back from the Gold Class screening and I thoroughly enjoyed the movie.

Was a bit disappointed that Ironhide got knocked off.

Sentinel's defection was a shock - I didnt read anything going into this movie so.

Was Blackout in this movie? I saw Barricade?

What really pisses me off was that this movie hasnt even been out for one day and people start a thread picking it to bits. Its not 1984 and G1 anymore, its 2011 - new time and new generation.

Remakes of movies/old stuff will continue - Just like the upcoming Smurfs and Captain America movie.

Tetsuwan Convoy

30th June 2011, 01:31 AM

What really pisses me off was that this movie hasnt even been out for one day and people start a thread picking it to bits. Its not 1984 and G1 anymore, its 2011 - new time and new generation.

The reason people are picking it to bits is because there are many flaws. just because it's 2011 doesn't mean we have to put up with crappy movies.

Personally I enjoyed it though. Ironhide's death made me sad, Bumblebee living made me sad.

I am glad Bay is l;eaving the TF movies, as I found myself getting tired of Bay(cli)ches.

Slow mo chick look.
Helicopters/military vehicles taking off at sunset/dawn, yet everywhere else its the same day and they arrive at the same time.
I thought the falling building section went on for too long as well.
Dino. Wha?
Einstein. I thought this guy was some sort of Kup fellow = Wha?
Sentinel comes back from the dead and immediately starts lecturing the humans about what is going on. He knew exactly where everything is up to. Wha?
The Decepticons that were characters were pretty much despensible, aside from Laserbeak. Sentinel was the main bad guy and Megatron got shafted (again).
I thought Starscreams death was a bit weak. That grapple to his eyeball must have really hurt (and yet he had an arm ripped off previously and he handled that like a man). Why he didn't just grab the cable... However, I can see him going down to a guy with a boom stick, especially since said boomstick got JAMMED IN HIS FACE!
Ow

The thing I hated the most....

Ridiculously obvious product placement. The whole world uses Lenovo monitors, cisco modems and I am so glad I now know the specs and price range of that damn Mercedes.

Good stuff.
I liked seeing the Strealth force shenanagins. Kind of justifies it a bit IMO.
Prime's trailer. Weapons reack, flight tech. Shame about no armouring up scene with the flight tech too...
Brains and Wheelie. enjoyable. No leg humping!
Laserbeak is pure awesome. He should be next decep leader!!

As you can see, I found more bad than good, but I still enjoyed it. It's not a great movie (and with Bay at the helm it won't be) but it isn't a terrible movie either.

I look forward to seeing it again and picking at its flaws like scabs on my arm:D

SharkyMcShark

30th June 2011, 01:34 AM

My main issue was the final battle/set piece. Like with RotF it went on for far too long - by the end of it my senses had been assaulted enough that I didn't really care that it had been resolved, just that it was over.

Tetsuwan Convoy

30th June 2011, 01:56 AM

Yeh, the movie was too long I think. Again.

Forgot to add some other points as well. I liked the fact that Carley had a purpose in this movie. her contacts helped get Sam a job, whihc allowed him to find out about the moon etc.

Also I enjoyed the Sam trying to find his palce in the world part. Although his whinging and moaning about being a messenger was kind of weak. After all he was. In ROTF, Optimus asks him to be the liason and Sam tells him to go away as he wants a normal life. Now he wants a special life. Silly Bugger.

Finally, one thing that struck me as odd, after all that Sam has been through, the only way to conatact the Autobots/Bumblebee is to drive up to the building and start a fight? Surely his previous experiences would make him a target of Megatron's (even if it's just for torturing on a rainy day)so they would give him some way of conacting the Autobots.

I liked the chains Megs had on, and his shotgun/musket. But why? Where'd his big ass gun go?

Final point for now, if those scalpel bots were fixing Megatron, why does he play with them and crush them?

Can't wait for Knuckle Buster Optimus Prime to be in the shops XD

CHILENO20

30th June 2011, 02:13 AM

saw it this morning, sooooooooooo much better than ROTF, Optimus kicks ass with his trailer, like many here im happy with a lot of nods to the G1 history, a few things stick here n there as odd or downright stupid but hey, thats Hollywood, wouldnt be Transformers if it wasnt a lil outrageous, def gonna see it again on the big screen!

Lint

30th June 2011, 02:39 AM

Now that I had some sleep, I remember the glaringly bad premise behind Sentinel's apparent development of the space bridge. To teleport Cybertron to some puny planet so 6 billion fleshlings can help rebuild it? Whaaaat?

I'm glad they didn't make too much of it after it was 'revealed' but seriously, if they just stuck to the "they're here for our water" sci-fi convention it would have been far more believeable.

Still think its the most entertaining film of the three by far (haven't even bothered to watch ROTF), but I did have the advantage of zero spoilers and watered down expectations.

Decepticon

30th June 2011, 08:58 AM

Shirokaze

30th June 2011, 09:04 AM

I'm really surprised of the wrap some people are giving the movie, especially since the majority would happily sit and watch re-runs of G1 and the 1986 movie which both had absolutely no plot or character development at all. They were just glorified toy commercials afterall, and the only difference now is that the movie is also a commercial for Lenova, Cisco, Nike, Mercedes, Chevy and Ferrari as well as the toys.

That brings me to "why bots need to have a point". I thought they were soldiers who were there to fight a war. Isn't that the point? Why does everyone need a back story? If ALL the human soldiers had their individual back stories, everyone would be complaining about that.

But seriously, we're all fans of a toyline about giant robots fighting each other and that's exactly what we got. The comics are there to fuel our fanboy/girl desire for rich back stories, just like the 80s Marvel stuff was there to add an actual story to the G1 cartoon.

I really enjoyed the movie, and so did the 32 friends I filled the Gold Class cinema with last night. The only thing that I'd say was dreadful was some of the cheesy dialogue, but it was a good laugh.

gantz

30th June 2011, 09:37 AM

Dear Michael Bay and HASBRO,

Please, Please, Please send me the picture with Sam and President Obama!

That was sooooooooooo friggin' funny, Sams face LOL!

Also, the next film should be the war for Cybertron :)

RageOnTheRoads

30th June 2011, 10:48 AM

eh.....

I'd put it in the same boat as Avatar: visually spectacular but the story was as limp as a dead fish. Though, Avatar did have more character development than this movie, sam's character arc was fun enough to watch.
I really don't understand why Hollywood never bothers to invest in good writers for summer action movies.:confused:

Having said that I reckon it is the best "3rd" movie I have seen in a long time. Defiantly better than spiderman 3 or x-men3. I did really like the film, I just felt it could have been more.

pros:
Josh Duhamel (why didn't we get a gratuitous panty shot from him)
Lazerbeak was win. That is all.
The action sequences- Bay might be a narcissistic tosser, but the man can defiantly choreograph some mean action.
Sentinel Prime.
Ironhide's death. (Not that I relished seeing the poor guy "rusted" I just didn't see it coming.)
Soundwave.
ILM's awe-inspiring artistry(CGI).
Dempsey's character was a nice nod to Doctor Arkeville.
Rosie's acting didn't suck as much as I thought it would.
There was giant transforming robots.

Cons:
I felt like I was watching a G-1 cartoon episode. 25+ years on (and given this movie is targeted at adults as much as it is kids,) I would've liked a slightly more developed story line than the ones found in a 80's kids cartoon. Oh well. For what is was DOTM was a decent enough movie.

LOL moments:

I'd pretty much come to terms with the fact Bay and the writers of the latter two movies decided to turn prime into a poster boy for American foreign policy. Still I couldn't help but chuckle when he executed the on his knees Sentinel Prime as he pleaded he was only trying to save his kind. For some reason I kept thinking of movie Prime like this (http://videosift.com/video/Family-guy-Passion-of-the-Christ-2) ...probably because of Primes' previous incarnations bearing uncanny similarities to a certain messiah.

all in all, DOTM gets a 3/5
ROTF -1/5
TF1 4/5

bowspearer

30th June 2011, 12:06 PM

What really pisses me off was that this movie hasnt even been out for one day and people start a thread picking it to bits. Its not 1984 and G1 anymore, its 2011 - new time and new generation.

Remakes of movies/old stuff will continue - Just like the upcoming Smurfs and Captain America movie.

The fact that it is newer doesn't necessarily make it better though.

In a nutshell, the problem with this movie series was Michael Bay's sensibilities being thrown into the mix as a director.

Since we're talking remakes, let's compare it to the IDW Dead-Furmanverse.

Both were complete reduxes. Both drew on the motion of a more modern and "realistic" take on how things would play out. You even had some situations where all that was essentially different in terms of concepts was a name, like with Sector-7 vs Skywatch.

However the approaches and how seriously the source material was taken were completely different.

Bayformers went down the road of an action comedy in parts, using women as eye candy and jeuvenille humour from the start- with a major subplot being Sam's coming of age. When you're starting on a downhill slope, then things get even worse with the sequel, then you haven't got alot of room to start to take off.

Compare this to the first 22 regular story issues of the IDW Dead-Furmanverse + One-shots preceding Revelations (which was accused of being far too short and abrupt for peoples' likings, but the prior four stories were both highly accessible to newcomers whilst holding widespread appeal amongst fans). With IDW, you had humans kidnapped and replaced with clones, a deadly game where humans were in over their heads (even Skywatch) and where the entire series feels dark and desperate.

It's essentially like comparing Herbie the Love Bug (or dare I bring up the dead awful Robot Jox) with the Sarah Connor Chronicles or the terminator movies.

Admittedly this was being marketted to young teenage boys and Hasbro wanted to sell toys, but when the source material is being treated with that much contempt, you're going to end up with something sub-par where fans have to lower their expectations to enjoy it- there's just no away around it.

IF Hasbro decides to go with TF4 and the series is rebooted (it pretty much has to be with the number of dead cons at the end of TF3), then there needs to be alot more consideration of the choice of director. What TF has always needed has been more of a Ridley Scott (who has gone on record as saying he'd do another scifi if the script was good enough) or a Chris Nolan- people who can produce a serious war drama in a fantastic scifi setting that leaves you blown away and terrified of what your new car might do when you least expect it.

In short, it's 2011, but as Tetsuwan said, that's no excuse for a poor update.

Accel

30th June 2011, 12:08 PM

bowspearer

30th June 2011, 12:13 PM

I don't get why G1-fanboys get angry about the movie. I mean its Megatron's master plan and the Ultimate doom :P didn't you want G1 stories! :P

anyway I really enjoyed it. there is some scenes that did drag out a tiny bit and the movie could of done with a 15 min or so trim but that's my only real complaint

The problem again, comes back to Bay's sensibilities as a director. If say, Terminator 2 were remade and Bay directed, you'd wind up with something very similar to TF1. It doesn't matter how good a concept you might have for a movie; if the director is a poor fit, then you're going to wind up with something missing the mark.

Paul Agnew

30th June 2011, 01:24 PM

Which series? I may actually buy it, there's room for a decent story between the two movie, alas IDW fumble the ball as much as Bay and co does.

Check out IDW's Rising Storm 4-part series to learn the fates of Elita and Jolt. The individual issues or the collected TPB should be available if you can find a decent comic book shop.

Paul Agnew

30th June 2011, 01:38 PM

I thought I saw that but I can't confirm, on the other hand they never transformed so maybe they were the twins twins? :p What's more perplexing is I clearly recall them saying after that there are 9 Autobots left, which leaves no room for the Twins (not to mention Arcee and Jolt).

It can work. The Dark of the Moon novel depicts Skidz sacrificing himself to save Bumblebee moments after Sentinel Prime goes Nemesis Prime on poor Ironhide.

After his brother's death, Mudflap threatens to "kill that bastard" and relentlessly pounds the Prime, only to befall the same fate as his fellow kin.

Jolt was killed by Shockwave in Rising Storm, and the injuries Arcee and Chromia suffered were probably fatal, thus died between the Rising Storm/DOTM gap.

Shirokaze

30th June 2011, 01:45 PM

The problem again, comes back to Bay's sensibilities as a director. If say, Terminator 2 were remade and Bay directed, you'd wind up with something very similar to TF1. It doesn't matter how good a concept you might have for a movie; if the director is a poor fit, then you're going to wind up with something missing the mark.

If Bay hadn't had the balls to take on the project, the trilogy might've ended up in the hands of someone truly dreadful like M. Night Shyamalan who I still haven't forgiven for what he did to "The Last Airbender". It could've ended up like Dragon Ball Evolution or Tekken, but it didn't. Just because we can think of stacks of better directors, it doesn't mean that any of them would've wanted to put 5 years into a trilogy about transforming robot kids toys or have even been capable of bringing them to life in such a believable fashion.

gantz

30th June 2011, 01:52 PM

Shirokaze Speaks Truth!

bowspearer

30th June 2011, 01:54 PM

If Bay hadn't had the balls to take on the project, the trilogy might've ended up in the hands of someone truly dreadful like M. Night Shyamalan who I still haven't forgiven for what he did to "The Last Airbender". It could've ended up like Dragon Ball Evolution or Tekken, but it didn't. Just because we can think of stacks of better directors, it doesn't mean that any of them would've wanted to put 5 years into a trilogy about transforming robot kids toys or have even been capable of bringing them to life in such a believable fashion.

Yet that's just it. When the best you can say is "it could have been worse" (and I'll see your Shayman and raise you Uwe Boll on that front :p ), or say that you had to lower your expectations to enjoy something, then it's nothing to write home about.

Furthermore if a decent enough treatment had've been in play to begin with then I can't see why the likes of Ridley Scott or James Cameron wouldn't have wanted to be on board.

Which every way you cut it; while it might make for a great action trilogy featuring giant transforming robots, it's not the best storytelling out there in terms of TF lore.

1AZRAEL1

30th June 2011, 02:16 PM

All I know I still enjoyed it for what it was, a movie. It's the same as I enjoy Masters of the Universe because it is a movie, but doesn't follow to the T of Heman lore.

Every Joe Blo is not gonna know about all the mythos, and still enjoy it, which is the target of movies, to make people watch them. They don't just target big budget films at a small group of people because they won't make as much money. Saying that, they still had a few nods towards us fans in it. And will still be a successful movie at the box office. Because lets face it, if the first movie had bombed, the Transformers toyline would be close to being dead and wouldn't have the toys we have now and getting in the future.

I'm there to enjoy a movie, and I enjoyed this one more than the last 2.

Shirokaze

30th June 2011, 02:49 PM

Yet that's just it. When the best you can say is "it could have been worse" (and I'll see your Shayman and raise you Uwe Boll on that front :p ), or say that you had to lower your expectations to enjoy something, then it's nothing to write home about.

Furthermore if a decent enough treatment had've been in play to begin with then I can't see why the likes of Ridley Scott or James Cameron wouldn't have wanted to be on board.

Which every way you cut it; while it might make for a great action trilogy featuring giant transforming robots, it's not the best storytelling out there in terms of TF lore.

I totally agree with everything you've written, but it's like Azrael said, at the end of the day they aren't making a movie to appeal to us, it's gotta appeal to the entire world and that's why it's not the best storytelling in terms of TF lore.

As far as a great action trilogy goes, I think they hit the nail on the head when it came to the broad audience the movies had to appeal to, and I just think the fandom has been pretty harsh on what has been a really enjoyable 2 movies (pretending RoTF never happened) with a lot of criticism stemming from knowledge that the general public doesn't have. So yeah, I guess I do think that we have to lower our expectations. They're films made for people that don't know the Transformers lore by people who don't know the Transformers lore or have the emotional attachment that we do.

Hopefully after seeing what can be done with the franchise, we'll get somone like James Cameron or Ridley Scott on board for number 4!

RageOnTheRoads

30th June 2011, 02:55 PM

I don't get why G1-fanboys get angry about the movie. I mean its Megatron's master plan and the Ultimate doom :P didn't you want G1 stories! :P

LOLz I just noticed that now you said it. :p

But I don't think it's so much G1 fanboy rantings, (I am personally a Beast Wars girl,:D) as it is general movie-goer annoyance. I really enjoyed the first movie, it got me back into the franchise and I saw it 3 or 4 times... I hadn't done that since the lion king. It did have its short comings, but they were nothing compared to the gobsmacking trash pile that was ROTF. I was willing to forgive though because of the writers strike. As for the third film I left liking it, but wishing it had been more than it was.

What fascinates me about Hollywood is that while every aspect of film making is becoming more flexible and dynamic; with CGI now allowing for limitless story telling potential, the writing is seemingly stagnating in a cesspool of clich�s and generally poor structure.

Over the last few years I have found myself sitting through films with soulless scripts comparable to school level writing. Whats worse is that, along with other move-goers I am starting to accept this low standard as the norm.

I guess what bugged me most about the last two TF movies (and it's certainly not limited to this franchise,) is that I am sick of having to rationalise as to why a multi-billion dollar body like Hollywood, with a global talent pool to select from, continues to churn out mediocre [insert expletive].

:o rant end.

GoktimusPrime

30th June 2011, 03:50 PM

Was Blackout in this movie? I saw Barricade?
Blackout was killed in the first Transformers movie my Lennox and a squadron of F22 Raptors. His body was seen buried at the bottom of the sea. The helicopter Decepticon in Revenge of the Fallen who looks similar (but not identical) to Blackout is Grindor... who was killed by Optimus Prime in the forest when he tore his head apart with his hooks.

What really pisses me off was that this movie hasnt even been out for one day and people start a thread picking it to bits. Its not 1984 and G1 anymore, its 2011 - new time and new generation.

Remakes of movies/old stuff will continue - Just like the upcoming Smurfs and Captain America movie.

Here here!! Too many G1 lovers here.

I don't get why G1-fanboys get angry about the movie. I mean its Megatron's master plan and the Ultimate doom :P didn't you want G1 stories! :P
Okay, but to be fair, I haven't seen anyone here nitpick it in terms of comparing it with G1. With the first movie we had some people who did that with comments like "I hate Optimus Prime's chopper flames," "Why isn't Megatron a gun?," "Why isn't Barricade a pink and blue F-1 racer?" etc. -- but I don't recall seeing too many comments here like that. Unless I'm missing comments like, "Why isn't Sentinel Prime more yellow/orange?", "Why isn't Leadfoot an F-1 race car?", "Why isn't Roadbuster an armoured jeep?", "Why isn't Laserbeak a cassette tape?" "Why doesn't Shockwave transform into a space gun?" (oh wait, Shockwave doesn't transform into anything... (-_-)) etc.

The criticisms I've been reading have been about the movie as a Transformers movie in its own right and not necessarily expecting it to be G1. People are allowed to have opinions. :)

I didn't see Barricade.
Really? He was definitely there. Particularly when the 'Cons had rounded up the Autobots as POWs and started executing them -- then the humans started shooting at them and Barricade got shot in the eye, allowing Bumblebee and the other Autobot prisoners to fight back.

Didn't like the giant worm and Spaceships hovering over the city.
The worm would've been a whole lot cooler if it were actually a Transformer. Like even if Shockwave transformed into his alt mode and could bore under ground -- even if he's a lot smaller, he could still present a credible threat and I would've preferred it. *sigh* The comics explain that the worm was a creature from Cybertron which Shockwave keeps as a pet... but of course, the movie doesn't give an exposition for this so audiences who haven't read the comics would be left wondering. Shockwave was reduced to the level of "Rancor Keeper." Such a massive downgrade from what he was in G1 (especially in the comics). :(

I'm really surprised of the wrap some people are giving the movie, especially since the majority would happily sit and watch re-runs of G1 and the 1986 movie which both had absolutely no plot or character development at all. They were just glorified toy commercials afterall, and the only difference now is that the movie is also a commercial for Lenova, Cisco, Nike, Mercedes, Chevy and Ferrari as well as the toys.
On one hand I agree -- as I've said before, Dark of the Moon does capture the basic spirit of the G1 cartoon well, and arguably offers more plot and development than the G1 'toon. But on the other hand, the G1 comics - which a lot of G1 fans prefer over the cartoon (including myself) - did have pretty decent plot and character development. Better than what we see in the movies.

IMO the movies might have been goodererer if they'd tried to capture the spirit of the comics rather than the cartoon. But on the other hand, while that might please us fans because we have familiarity with the comics, a lot of Joe/Jane Average non-fan movie goers may not be as familiar with the comics and be more familiar with the cartoon.

So on one hand, if the movies are more like the G1 cartoon and ends up being shallow, then people whinge about it, but then if they attempted to match the depth that the G1 comics had, then they would have less familiarity with non-fan audiences. And the success of this movie franchise has been its popularity with the general public and not only fans. When I the movie, I reckon Fonecrusher, mknell, 1AZRAEL1 and I were possibly the only fans in the cinema. Either that, or any other fans in there were really shy -- because from 22:00-23:30 we were playing Transformers Monopoly in the foyer decked out in TF clothes with TF music blasting away, and inside the theatre we played Transformers Trivia, and I did say that anyone could join in and try to answer the questions and that I had prizes to give away, which was true. But I didn't give any away because nobody other than ourselves bothered to participate in the triv game. There _might_ have been other fans in the audience, but my guess would be that most likely there probably weren't. :/ But I digress...

Having said that, just because you're basing a story on the G1 cartoon doesn't mean it can't be well written. And movie writers have MUCH greater freedom than G1 writers because G1 was created as toys first, then the writers had to write stories based on those toys to promote them. Hasbro would dictate which characters needed to be removed or inserted into the story and when. That's why if you look at stories like Transformers The Movie, a lot of characters that were killed or rebuilt were toys that Hasbro no longer wanted to market because they were no longer current (e.g. Brawn, Ironhide, Ratchet, Optimus Prime, Megatron, Thundercracker, Skywarp, Starscream, Wheeljack, Windcharger, the Insecticons etc.) and introduced current/new toys (e.g. Ultra Magnus, Rodimus Prime, Galvatron, Scourge, Cyclonus, Springer, Kup, Blurr etc.) With the live action movies, Paramount makes the story first, then Hasbro has to figure out how to engineer toys based on Dreamworks' designs.

That brings me to "why bots need to have a point". I thought they were soldiers who were there to fight a war. Isn't that the point? Why does everyone need a back story? If ALL the human soldiers had their individual back stories, everyone would be complaining about that.
Like the random mooks in Austin Powers! :D

Okay, not every character needs to be developed, but at least a select core of characters should be - because it's characted development that drives the story. Let's take any of the new characters introduced in Dark of the Moon and describe them without talking about what they look like, what they transform into or what they do in the story. In other words, describe their character.

For example, Sentinel Prime:
Sentinel Prime is a stoic, respected and authoritative figure. Whereas Optimus Prime is driven by an altruistic sense of ethics (selfless concern for the welfare of others), Sentinel Prime is driven by utilitarian morality (the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few), although his utilitarianism is skewed by his belief that Transformers are inherently superior to the expendable fleshlings of Earth whom he believes should worship the Transformers as gods and work as their slaves (thus it could be argued that Sentinel's ethics is based on utilitarianism but diluted with some authoritarianism or totalitarianism (probably the former)). Sentinel Prime does feel inherent loyalty to the Autobot cause, but has had to compromise his standards in making a deal with Megatron and the Decepticons with the ultimate goal of saving Cybertron. So we can see that Sentinel's morality has also been "corrupted" into consequentialism (the ends justify the means) - which is something that the altruistic Optimus Prime refuses to accept (and thus continues to defy his former leader and mentor). Sentinel Prime can be seen as a somewhat tragic or fallen hero -- deep down we can see his utilitarian heart, but it has been "tainted". He may have been Sentinel Prime... but he had become Nemesis Prime.

Okay, now pick ANY of the new characters introduced in Dark of the Moon (robot or human) and describe them without talking about how they look like what they transform into, what they physical capabilities/weaknesses are or what they actually do in the film.

But seriously, we're all fans of a toyline about giant robots fighting each other and that's exactly what we got. The comics are there to fuel our fanboy/girl desire for rich back stories, just like the 80s Marvel stuff was there to add an actual story to the G1 cartoon.
The comics came before the cartoon, actually. And being fans of the Transformers doesn't necessarily mean that we are only fans of giant robots fighting each other.

Why do so many fans prefer the G1 comics over the cartoon? Why is Beast Wars so widely respected? Speaking of characters, Dinobot and Waspinator were both voted into Hasbro's TF Hall of Fame (despite attempts at making this year's HoF into a farce with the Erector nomination :mad:)

I really enjoyed the movie, and so did the 32 friends I filled the Gold Class cinema with last night.
I quite like the movie too - and there are lots of positive things about it (which I've already mentioned before)... and IMO the positives outweigh the negatives (otherwise I wouldn't like the movie! As it is I can't wait to see it again on Saturday! :D). But that's not to say that I'm unaware of some of its flaws.

I mean, I really love the Lord of the Rings trilogy too, but I can also see some of its weaknesses (seriously... WHY did the Elves go to Helm's Deep?! Why the face?! :confused:) </rhetorical.question>

If Bay hadn't had the balls to take on the project, the trilogy might've ended up in the hands of someone truly dreadful like M. Night Shyamalan who I still haven't forgiven for what he did to "The Last Airbender". It could've ended up like Dragon Ball Evolution or Tekken, but it didn't. Just because we can think of stacks of better directors, it doesn't mean that any of them would've wanted to put 5 years into a trilogy about transforming robot kids toys or have even been capable of bringing them to life in such a believable fashion.
True. Michael Bay did bring a lot of good things to the franchise -- he certainly made Transformers VERY popular again in the mainstream. His links with the military has been a big asset... he was the first director who was permitted to film F22 Raptors (arguably the best jet fighter in the world today)! His decision to use low-angle shots has just been awesome because it really made the Transformers look like giant freakin' robots, which they are! But other TF franchises just don't quite give you that same sense of scale. The low angles allows the audience to see the Transformers from a human's POV and remind us that these are really BIG @$$ robots! :eek:

I know some people don't like his fast and furious blurry looking fight sequences, but I do - because:
a: Real fights are fast and furious. If you've ever seen a street brawl (either IRL or on TV/video) they're just all over the place... it's messy.
b: Again, gives sense of scale. Imagine two people having a brawl, but imagine looking at them from an ant's POV. All you would see are giant body parts flying past you in a blurr!

I can't stand the unrealistically "clean" looking fight sequences used in many other movies, especially so-called "martial arts" films. <shudder>

And to give Michael Bay credit, it does seem that he has learnt from some of his mistakes in DotM. For example no more extensive pointless juvenile humour. No robot peeing, no giant janglies, no humping, no drug-jokes. Okay, there's still humour, but even the most juvenile jokes don't drag on. Look at that scene in the toilet cubicle where Wang gets all "close and cosy" and semi-nekkid with Sam... that got big laughs, but not only that, it contributed to the story. Wang was giving Sam vital information so that he could hopefully use it to stop the Decepticons - which was a pretty bold move from him (and he paid the ultimate price). Also, he didn't have silly things happening when important expositions were being presented (e.g. farting a parachute). Overall DotM didn't drag on like RotF did -- I found it far more engaging.

Every Joe Blo is not gonna know about all the mythos, and still enjoy it, which is the target of movies, to make people watch them. They don't just target big budget films at a small group of people because they won't make as much money. Saying that, they still had a few nods towards us fans in it. And will still be a successful movie at the box office. Because lets face it, if the first movie had bombed, the Transformers toyline would be close to being dead and wouldn't have the toys we have now and getting in the future.
That's true. 1986's Transformers The Movie was actually a box office failure despite being completely within the TF lore than fans knew -- but while fans may have loved TFTM, non-fans didn't. Even today I don't know how many people who aren't TF fans would enjoy sitting down and watching TFTM. But having said that, it's still no excuse for a poor story (not necessarily saying that the DotM story was poor - I think it was alright - but just saying that it doesn't justify its weaknesses).

I totally agree with everything you've written, but it's like Azrael said, at the end of the day they aren't making a movie to appeal to us, it's gotta appeal to the entire world and that's why it's not the best storytelling in terms of TF lore.

Just because the franchise needs to appeal to the movie going public, doesn't mean that fans ought to lower their standards. Look at X-Men for example... it successfully appealed to both fans and the movie-going public. It maintained a pretty good storyline with substantial development of core characters while still remaining true to the spirit of the X-Men franchise. The Lord of the Rings is another example -- quite a lot of things were changed for the benefit of the general audience e.g. replacing Glorfindel with Arwen and giving her a MUCH more significant role than she originally had! The romance between Aragorn and Arwen is only briefly mentioned/seen in the books, yet it's really prominent in the films because Hollywood audiences like to see romance. But despite this, the LotR trilogy still gave us a really good story with definitive character development (I personally wish they'd left in the Scouring of the Shire - but then some people argue that it would've been a turn off for general audiences who might then see Frodo's entire quest as an act of futility).

Fans should definitely have realistic expectations when adapting a franchise for a general audience, e.g. Wolverine can't wear yellow spandex, Megatron can't be a gun etc., but it doesn't mean we can't expect greatness. :)

Bartrim

30th June 2011, 04:08 PM

"Why isn't Barricade a pink and blue F-1 racer?"

Really? You have seen someone complain about that point?:confused:

GoktimusPrime

30th June 2011, 04:58 PM

Really? You have seen someone complain about that point?:confused:

Nah, I just put that in for giggles. Shows you're paying attention though. Good work! :D

Mr Ed

30th June 2011, 05:46 PM

Blackout was killed in the first Transformers movie my Lennox and a squadron of F22 Raptors. His body was seen buried at the bottom of the sea. The helicopter Decepticon in Revenge of the Fallen who looks similar (but not identical) to Blackout is Grindor... who was killed by Optimus Prime in the forest when he tore his head apart with his hooks.

That's what I thought.

So why did Hasbro release in a Commander Series, Blackout????

1AZRAEL1

30th June 2011, 05:50 PM

That's what I thought.

So why did Hasbro release in a Commander Series, Blackout????

Same reason they released the Twins and Jazz, to make use of the mold and make more money.

bowspearer

30th June 2011, 07:06 PM

I totally agree with everything you've written, but it's like Azrael said, at the end of the day they aren't making a movie to appeal to us, it's gotta appeal to the entire world and that's why it's not the best storytelling in terms of TF lore.

The problem there is the assumption (and it does seem to have been one made with the making of these movies) is that if the movies appealed to the fans, that they could not be accessible to the general public. As IDW proved with their reboot, that isn't the case at all.

One of the most annoying things about the movies is that while everyone was swearing blind that you couldn't create a new, fresh storyline, talking about who it was intended for, alienating people, character vs action scenes, etc; the IDW continuity was doing it. Yes admittedly the wheels might have fallen off the cart with their reboot as time has gone on depending on your point of view (personally I love it though), but either way it's proven that all the claims about what the movie had to do or couldn't do, are simply unfounded.

Lord_Zed

30th June 2011, 08:12 PM

I liked the chains Megs had on, and his shotgun/musket. But why? Where'd his big ass gun go?

Final point for now, if those scalpel bots were fixing Megatron, why does he play with them and crush them?

He didn't need It, he has a shotgun and a hood. Seriously starting to think Poncho Megatron is the best thing to come from DOTM, I think he should have his own prequel series where he becomes a sort of antihero and drives over the Savannah hunting rouge cyberbeasts created by the Allspark cube that migrated to Africa, and also scaring Elephants. No doubt he would become and errie legend among the locals as the hooded giant, who fear him and make offerings to him.

In the Spider side I kinda thought they were parasites, nibbling on his brain, Megs had been out in the wilds so long he got cybermites or scrapletspiders, perhaps beside the point but one things that's sorely lacking in most TF lore is any sort of life on Cybertron other than Cybertronians. Quintessa has cyberfish, and the rest of space has other mechanoid life and scraplets so why can's Cybertron get some other forms of life?

Okay, not every character needs to be developed, but at least a select core of characters should be - because it's characted development that drives the story. Let's take any of the new characters introduced in Dark of the Moon and describe them without talking about what they look like, what they transform into or what they do in the story. In other words, describe their character.

For example, Sentinel Prime:
Sentinel Prime is a stoic, respected and authoritative figure. Whereas Optimus Prime is driven by an altruistic sense of ethics (selfless concern for the welfare of others), Sentinel Prime is driven by utilitarian morality (the needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few), although his utilitarianism is skewed by his belief that Transformers are inherently superior to the expendable fleshlings of Earth whom he believes should worship the Transformers as gods and work as their slaves (thus it could be argued that Sentinel's ethics is based on utilitarianism but diluted with some authoritarianism or totalitarianism (probably the former)). Sentinel Prime does feel inherent loyalty to the Autobot cause, but has had to compromise his standards in making a deal with Megatron and the Decepticons with the ultimate goal of saving Cybertron. So we can see that Sentinel's morality has also been "corrupted" into consequentialism (the ends justify the means) - which is something that the altruistic Optimus Prime refuses to accept (and thus continues to defy his former leader and mentor). Sentinel Prime can be seen as a somewhat tragic or fallen hero -- deep down we can see his utilitarian heart, but it has been "tainted". He may have been Sentinel Prime... but he had become Nemesis Prime.

Okay, now pick ANY of the new characters introduced in Dark of the Moon (robot or human) and describe them without talking about how they look like what they transform into, what they physical capabilities/weaknesses are or what they actually do in the film.

The Wreckers are a##$holes. :p

But I do agree, though you so stole that from the Redletter media reviewer.:D

Fonecrusher

30th June 2011, 09:51 PM

(Spoilers obviously)

After letting the movie sink in for a few days and getting over the initial buzz and excitement I've pretty much realised it's just the same old Bay film. Sure the plot is a little better and the action is pure eye candy. But still disappointing how little these movies have moved forward since 2007.

Decepticons are a joke, I don't have a problem that none of them survived, I have a problem they went down like such chumps. As someone pointed out to me, Shockwave could have not of been in this movie at all and no one probably would of noticed, he added nothing to the movie and died in embarassing fashion (getting tangled in a parachute? Of all the crap ways to go...). Megatron must of been letting the sun fry his circuits in Africa too long because he had absolutely no presence in this movie, he didn't feel powerful he didn't have that dread and ferocity about him. And boy was his death humiliating, we were all set for this final climatic battle betwen Megs and OP and we get a mortal kombat fatality in 5 seconds... Soundwave and Starscream went out in weaksauce ways too.

Bay said in Chicago there would be no military only "Bots vs Cons" he obviously was being a smartass and not including Epps motley crew, they aren't "military" but as per usual humans did most of the damage to the Decepticons.

I guess the big difference is, this time around I accept it for what it is, rather than critisize it, for what it's not. So yeah overall it's a good movie and a decent end to the series, much better than the piece of crap which was ROTF.

1orion2many

30th June 2011, 10:34 PM

:(Too many long comments for me to read as I'm lazy, All I can say I was disgusted with the treatement of 1 of my all time favourite G1 Icons NOOOOOooooooooooo:( after I saw that death it was all very cold for me sniffle:(

griffin

30th June 2011, 10:50 PM

I agree... Can we let more people have their say about their first impressions of the movie in these first few days, and limit the (essay) responses for later if someone isn't asking a question. I want to see what people think of it, without having to scroll through the same people responding to everything that gets posted.
Thanks

Borgeman

30th June 2011, 11:45 PM

I just watched i today, thought it was orite, lots of robot fighting and dying, which is always fun to watch

two things bothered be though

the very start - why did they need to tell us again about how the autobots and decepticons were at war back on cybertron, everyone knows. surely there could have been a better way of depicting the escape of the ark/subsequent crashing on the moon.... i mean even showing that scene with the in the moment wartime dialogue and battle cries, instead of the prime voiceover stating the bots and cons are at war, no schisse sherlock

the very end - are they aiming to make the ending more and more abrupt as they go along. movie 1 worked fine, movie 2 looked like they didnt know what to do, so they copied movie 1 and had the voice over with an abrupt finish. but this one, its as if they only had like 30 seconds of film left, so they did a movie 2 ending in fast forward mode.

*Megatron and sentinel die*
*survivors come to view the carnage*
THE END

no aftermath? please....

but otherwise, i didnt mind the movie overall

Borgeman

30th June 2011, 11:57 PM

oh, and that Rosie Huntington Whiteley may not be a great actor, but if was Sam Witwicky, I definitely know what I'd be doing...

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x24/borgeman/2h88r5t.gif

GoktimusPrime

1st July 2011, 12:03 AM

I thought Rosie Huntington Whitely's acting was fairly decent for a non-actress. I'm not saying her acting's great, but for an "amateur" it was alright. Buzz Aldren did okay too considering.

Demonac

1st July 2011, 12:11 AM

I thought Rosie Huntington Whitely's acting was fairly decent for a non-actress. I'm not saying her acting's great, but for an "amateur" it was alright. Buzz Aldren did okay too considering.

I don't want amateurs!
If I am paying to get a job done, I get professionals.
I expect no less from a movie that I hypothetically am paying to see (I have no plans to watch this thing yet).

SharkyMcShark

1st July 2011, 02:42 AM

Okay some slightly more coherent not posted at 4am thoughts (as per Griff's request not going to post a wall of text, just a few paras)

I didn't particularly like it. I really liked the 2007 film, quite liked Revenge of the Fallen (guilty pleasure, it was objectively poor) but I'm not won over by this. Maybe it was the style - for action movies I like Bay as a director but this was almost cinematic decadence, a cinematic last days of Rome. I felt like he was doing extravagant over the top stuff just because he could, as opposed to because they were good ideas.

I also felt that like with RotF what the bad guys were doing at any given time was a bit unclear - the deformed Megatron was hiding in quite a pathetic fasion in the middle of the African desert with Starscream and Soundwave seemingly living off scraps - this didn't really line up with Shockwave authoritatively tooling it around in a massive drilling snake thing destroying stuff.

Like RotF it felt too long - especially the final action set piece. By the time it ended (very abruptly) I didn't really care anymore why it had started. I'm generally all for action sequences but the very in your face style of Bay means that any lengthy sequences just grate on the senses.

Those are my major objective gripes. I tend not to let fanboy-ey stuff ruin my Bay-formers experience but will say that I was a bit let down with Shockwave - I see and appreciate how he was written (silent death machine, almost an animal/monster) but was expecting a slightly more aloof villain. Almost G1esque.

And now I hate myself for comparing the movie to G1 so I'll stop because I hate people that do that.

Bartrim

1st July 2011, 07:53 AM

I enjoyed it. I even enjoyed Wheelie and Brains who I thought I would find annoying. Like everyone I have a couple of criticisms.

** In the novel the robots got alot more time. I would of liked this in the movie. Particularly The Wreckers. Their intro scene was a bit longer with Epps explaining why they are NASCAR's and Sideswipe and Mirage have alot of banter between themselves which is quite funny.

**When the Autobots got freed and started slaying cons. I would of liked to of seen more robot action and less humans scurrying around. Also we know Bay used pre-existing models (In the still shots of the trailer you can see Longhaul and a brown coloured Brawl) I would of preferred these being used as fodder as opposed to generic silver bots.

**The garbage truck con. How can they tease the fans like that, We needed to see more of him. He better get a toy.

**Rosie... not a fan sorry

Apart from that I really enjoyed it. I liked the sycophant coward Starscream who was quite cocky about killing Sam then was all "Oh my eye. Ow!" I was glad I knew before hand of Ironhides death because probably would of shocked me pretty bad. I would like sit downa nd watch all the movies in a marathon to work out what one was my favourite but initially I would say this one is.

Oh and the 3D was awesome!:cool:

Reflector

1st July 2011, 09:42 AM

ok i saw it last night, and it was bad. I was expecting way better but i knew deep down not to get my hopes up.

However the scenes with Sam and Bumblebee together were great, actually kind of sweet. You can absolutely feel the connection they have and that is a really great part of these movies. When Bumblebee is about to be executed i think everyone in the cinema stopped breathing for a little while.

But then continues the crap-a-thon.

Shockwave looked pretty damn cool, he was def a nice G1 reference. Stupid annoying little transformers everywhere (might appeal to kids, i wanted them dead!) Optimus prime is hanging and nobody shoots him???? come on...

Oh and probably the thing i found MOST annoying, is that all the Transformers are now ninja's...what the crap happened to just having guns? why do they all do flips, rolls, spinning kicks, with swords....anyway, bad movie.

Worst part is i have to go watch it again with my son, ill tell him that its excellent though. Even if there is too much swearing in it for little kids.

GoktimusPrime

1st July 2011, 09:46 AM

I don't want amateurs!
If I am paying to get a job done, I get professionals.
I expect no less from a movie that I hypothetically am paying to see
Oh I agree. My comment wasn't to justify the use of amateurs as actors - but just saying that in the context of an amateur I think she did okay. But yeah, they should have hired a professional for sure. The use of Buzz Dixon was understandable - but that's more of a cameo role rather than the use of a non-actor in a significant role.

And now I hate myself for comparing the movie to G1 so I'll stop because I hate people that do that.
Okay, but even looking at DotM Shockwave completely on his own, we can see...
+ Bugger all character development. The only word he spoke that was intelligible to the audience as "Optimus" -- otherwise all his dialogue was in Cybertronian.
+ He didn't transform! :(

He was not much more than the driller-worm's keeper. Okay, non-G1 fans are probably not as disappointed, but I don't think they'd be thrilled by the character either.

Bartrim

1st July 2011, 10:12 AM

Okay, but even looking at DotM Shockwave completely on his own, we can see...
+ Bugger all character development. The only word he spoke that was intelligible to the audience as "Optimus" -- otherwise all his dialogue was in Cybertronian.
+ He didn't transform! :(

He was not much more than the driller-worm's keeper. Okay, non-G1 fans are probably not as disappointed, but I don't think they'd be thrilled by the character either.

I applaud Bay for his use of Shockwave. Best bit of misinformation ever!:D

He is fleshed out a little more in the novel and is more like his G1 self.

griffin

1st July 2011, 11:49 AM

Okay some slightly more coherent not posted at 4am thoughts (as per Griff's request not going to post a wall of text, just a few paras)

That request wasn't aimed at people who are posting their first thoughts on the movie.
I also don't want to prevent debate or discussion.

Demonac

1st July 2011, 12:38 PM

How accurate is this? (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/06/topless_robots_transformers_3_faq.php#more) I haven't seen the movie yet, but if this is anything to go by, I'm glad I didn't.

GoktimusPrime

1st July 2011, 02:19 PM

Some of those inconsistencies are explained in the comics... but as griffin said before, it shouldn't have to be. The movie ought to be able to sustain its own continuity on its own merit. So I can see how regular movie goers who don't read the comics would find it confusing. While it's great for comic writers to expand on existing continuity, they shouldn't have to fill in the gaps from the movie.

SharkyMcShark

1st July 2011, 03:04 PM

How accurate is this? (http://www.toplessrobot.com/2011/06/topless_robots_transformers_3_faq.php#more) I haven't seen the movie yet, but if this is anything to go by, I'm glad I didn't.

The second page of that is incredibly valid. The first page not so much.

Demonac

1st July 2011, 03:43 PM

I also found this (http://blogs.suntimes.com/scanners/2011/06/every_michael_bay_movie_in_und.html).

Towers_Spy

1st July 2011, 03:53 PM

The first words out of my mouth as the credits started rolling: "That...makes me embarrassed to have a TF tattoo.."

I saw it last night, and to be honest, I was horrified. I watched a bunch of G1 and read some All Hail Megatron this morning to wipe it from my mind. I was trying not to look forward to it, but was secretly believing it might be ok, and that was a mistake.

My issues:
* Awful treatment of female characters - you're either a half-naked, fish-lipped bimbo or a sexless annoying bitch (apart from 'that one time') ugh. So unnecessary. Is it so hard to have a robot movie about robots, rather than the sexual relationship between two humans? Or if rships are a must, why not have a girl with agency? Or who doesn't feel the need to flash at every opportunity? Why not focus on rships between the damn TF's? I mean geez there's eons of war between them all, flesh out their connections maybe.

* TF's 'helping' the US war effort - Bumblebee blowing up Iraqi's? Really? I get really mad about US politics so I wont even start, but that made me go grr..

* Useless scenes - half of the scenes featuring Sam's parents could've been shortened/cut to make time for more bot development

* Shockwave - one of my favourite characters, supposedly one of if not the most intelligent transformer reduced to popping out of the ground at random points with a giant worm, and grunting. I actually shouted "illogical!" when he was killed, much to the embarrassment of my friends. It made no sense. Also I don't think anyone's mentioned this but Shockwave had a mouth. Come on. You could get one thing right, just one :p

* Starscream - words cant express. The horrible things the Bay franchise has done to him. Period.

* Bumblebee NOT being shot in the back of the head. Come on, who else was on the edge of their seats (for the only time in the movie) hoping for Sounders to dispatch him? Nope, instead that yellow bastard blows Soundwave's head off. - ___ -

* Megatron, the indestructable, invincible leader of the Decepticons, reduced to a) bumming around the desert scaring elephants, b) being everyone's bitch, and c) taking advice from slutty-McDuckface. And then after he (pretty much) saves Optimus, he gets killed in like 2 seconds. Sadness.

There's so many others, but I'm forcing myself to try and think of positives.

* I liked Sentinel. For some reason I had an image of him in my mind as a Prime who wasn't all that positive, so when he defected I sort of expected it. Maybe its just because I like the IDW canon of Autobot bureaucracy treating the working class Cons like crap, dunno. Lemoy's voice was great, really suited the character.

* Lazerbeak was the best character. So well done and interesting, the whole montage of the assassinations was awesome

* Soundwave getting screentime, and good characterization. I totally knew that Mercedes was a Con, the minute I saw it :p befits his standing

* Prime's trailer of tricks - I thought his entrance was rushed, it was like ooh ooh a battle TA DA here's Prime bang bang bang.. But him gearing up was cool. Shame it was the only shot of it.

So now, if all the main Cons are dead, how is anyone new going to pick up the movie-line? Any TF movies without Megs, Starscream, Sounders and Shockwave would be a tad, well, dull to say the least. I personally hope no one picks it up, at least for a few hundred years, thats just me.

Oh, and did any Halo fans immediately think Covenant when they saw that big spaceship? Cuz I did :p

Decepticon

1st July 2011, 04:53 PM

* Bumblebee NOT being shot in the back of the head. Come on, who else was on the edge of their seats (for the only time in the movie) hoping for Sounders to dispatch him? Nope, instead that yellow bastard blows Soundwave's head off. - ___ - :p

I sooo agree with you on this point. I wanted that yellow thing gone:mad:
I wish Soundwave had survived and even Starscream. I am a Decepticon fan and found it really sad that they all died. I know the good guys always have to win in movies but how about a few more Autobot deaths?

Bartrim

1st July 2011, 05:06 PM

I know the good guys always have to win in movies but how about a few more Autobot deaths?

There were supposed to be. In the novel Mirage/Dino gets excecuted by Starscream and Leadfoot gets his leg blown off trying to escape when all the autobots are held captive.

optimus1

1st July 2011, 05:36 PM

I am a Michael Bay fan, I love all the over the top action/stunts/explosive stuff :D

Totally appropriate for a movie about alien robots at war on our planet :)

(and no, I am not being paid to say this :p)

For DOTM itself, here are some of my comments:

- I though this movie had some plotlines from G1 episodes - Countdown to Extinction, Megatron's Master Plan and enfused with 70's NASA conspiracy theories. Even my sister liked the references to G1 cartoons (she's a TF fan as well)

- Sentinel's killing of Ironhide and overall betrayal was a big shock to the system.
- I love Dino - great use of the Ferrari 458 :cool:
- Also love Soundwave as the Merc SLS AMG - great usage of a stunning ride for an Iconic character
- Wreckers were a nice addition, but should have heard the 'Wreck n Rule' shout out at least once :)
- Laserbeak - gotta love him in action, as he should
- Humans were overbearing this time 'round
- Decepticon attack on Chicago was nicely done, just like what they would really do.

Overall better than ROTF, but not as good as the original TF movie

Hursticon

1st July 2011, 05:54 PM

I absolutely loved this movie and am glad I'm seeing it again in only 4 days time! :D:D:D
I'm saddened, only because this is both the end of the TF Movies but also as it's the end of an era. :(

I only have 1 gripe with the film...

Bumblebee's face should've been an energon dripping exit-wound! :mad:
Bumblebee didn't deserve the honour of smiting Soundwave, that is an honour best befitting Ratchet - He should've ended his feud with Barricade! :mad::mad::mad:

Apart from that... :rolleyes::p

This film was so full of awesome-sauce it's ridiculous - From the opening scenes of Cybertron, to Leonard Nimoy's Sentinel Prime being as warped as Galvatron, to Optimus' lust for dismemberment, to Carly's Rear-End! :D:cool:
This movie is the best out of the 3 and caps off the best Trilogy of movies since '00. ;):cool::D

...

Thank you Michael Bay, and the entirety of your teams over the past 6-7 years, for all that you've done for these movies and for this franchise, not since the 80's have we enjoyed such lofty highs and exposure but also, never have we had such awesome entertainment - You'll be missed by most mate. ;):)

Decepticon

1st July 2011, 06:00 PM

Did Shockwave actually transform to his tank in the movie?

Why is Bumblebee always dirty and scratched in robot mode but all shiny and new in Camaro mode?

Why was Sentinal already a firetruck when on the moon?

Where was Barricade?

Did Ratchet say a word?

Why is the artist who designed Wheeljack/Q`s head such a retard?:p

Why was there no person in the drivers seat of Sideswipe when driving?

What did Brains transform into?

Why did Laserbeak talk? Didnt he such screech in G1?

SharkyMcShark

1st July 2011, 06:22 PM

No

Product placement

He wasn't

Same place where Jolt is now.

Yes

I don't know

... because he's a robot

A laptop

He had a few lines of dialogue at some point

Tetsuwan Convoy

1st July 2011, 07:26 PM

Where was Barricade?

Why did Laserbeak talk? Didnt he such screech in G1?

Q1. In the group with Soundwave that had captured Bumblebee and friends.

Q2. For plot development. He probably had the most speech in one movie than all the Decepticons combined had in the other 2.

On my second viewing, I found myself really enjoying it. I still think the building sequece was too long, but that was about the only annoyance the second time (aside from Bay-cliches).

Part of the enjoyment could have come from the person sitting next to me. She's a lady from work and she got into the Transformers Movies from #1, so I convinced her to join our group viewing and she really got into the movie. Her face at Sentinel's actions, Bumblebee's possible demise and When Optimus got his arm ripped off were absolute GOLD! Genuine worry. Aaaaah Yeh. :D

I could happily see it again I think without getting grumpy or cringeing.

5FDP

1st July 2011, 09:33 PM

OK, I've seen the film twice now - once in 2D and then at IMAX. I don't know if I wasn't paying much attention the first time around (maybe I was too busy drooling over a certain new female character), but after the second viewing I have made my mind up. This IS the best Transformers movie to date!

I agree with 99% of Hursti's review of it; the one percent is because I have no gripes whatsoever. This was entertaining from start to finish. There was no boredom, there were no thoughts of 'Michael Bay you have ruined my childhood', there was nothing but sheer enjoyment for the entire 2 and a half hours.

Tomorrow I will be watching it again in 3D however on a smaller screen and I can't wait. I'm just as excited as I was when I went for the first time.

If this is the end of the line for the movies (which I doubt because money has a tendancy to talk in Hollywood), I would be more than satisfied with how it all ended. Highly recommended to all (and this is coming from a geewon fanboy).

Bartrim

1st July 2011, 10:28 PM

I forgot to ask Gok what he thought of movieverse Time Warrior?:p

LordCyrusOmega

1st July 2011, 11:25 PM

I liked it, but didn't at the same time. The robots were there but it didn't feel like they were really in it. Can't explain.
I'm still tossing up between this and ROTF being the better one.
Laserbeak was awesome but Soundwave needed more screen time along with shockwave.
Can't believe Soundwave died at the hand of Bumblebee. I sat there saying 'do it, do it, do it' when he nearly copped it then BLAMMO no more Soundwave. How the hell did that happen?
Carley was much better then..the other one. Don't mind some perv shots though I can't really appreciate them anymore.
Simmons was still a retard and they could have cut the parts with the parents. It fit in the other movies but was forced this time around.
Megatron was just pathetic and Starscream was a rabid animal.Overall it was worth it but 3rd time around and it still doesn't feel like transformers.

GoktimusPrime

1st July 2011, 11:26 PM

Where was Barricade?

Same place where Jolt is now.
Jolt was killed by Shockwave (re: Rising Storm).

Did Ratchet say a word?
I think he did, because I remember some close up shot when Ratchet was speaking, and I noticed that the DotM Ratchet model actually has the new colours from the DotM toy -- which prompted to buy the toy yesterday.

Why is the artist who designed Wheeljack/Q`s head such a retard?:p
I dunno, but the comics have tried to explain it. Basically he used to look like this (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/4/42/Foundation1_wheeljack.jpg) until he was nearly killed by Shockwave. Ratchet said that although he could rebuild Wheeljack that he wouldn't be "quite the same."

Why was there no person in the drivers seat of Sideswipe when driving?
Yeah, I noticed that. <shrug> Maybe cos he wasn't driving in a heavily populated area? I don't know...

Why did Laserbeak talk? Didnt he such screech in G1?

He had a few lines of dialogue at some point
Laserbeak did speak briefly in very early G1, but he soon stopped and just squawked for most of his appearances. Besides, this isn't G1. ;)

I forgot to ask Gok what he thought of movieverse Time Warrior?:p
More like Meantime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Meantime)! :eek:

I just read #1 of the comic adaptation of DotM and Shockwave is portrayed as being more like his G1 self. I suspect that the comic script may be based on an earlier version of the movie script... if so, then I wonder why they decided to change him and severely dumb-down the character. :confused:

LambOfPrimus

1st July 2011, 11:29 PM

My thoughts are 'Wow, I want more' because I loved it. I fully agree with Hursticon that this movie is full of awesome. Action, humour, characters.

This movie delivered alot and without a doubt is the best out of all. I love the homage to G1 episodes, and how this was darker and more doomsday. Of course I'm upset Wave got killed by Bee, but more battle scenes and the twist with Sentinel more than made up for this.

My thoughts on characters:
Soundwave & Laserbeak was nice homage, and were the perfect loyal spies.(really makes me want to see a leader soundwave for obvious size class combination of toys).
Megatron true to his character came up with another plan and caved to his own greed (could have flicked her though).
Starscream cowered to megs like normal and was 'overshadowed by his stupidity' in the end.
Shockwave a stone-cold con, flying solo as he always has. Would have seen him perfectly fit into the plot as the one who commands the decepticons through the space bridge but still great to have him in the movie.
And I'm assuming Bumblebee was the one who got all the autobots caught towards the end lol.

I've noticed people complaining about human parts, but we must remember this is a movie for everyone, not just fans. I think it is an important component to the movie, I would like to think humans would have some contribution considering it is our planet. :D

Also the movie had a great story behind it. Whilst it may not link up with the book fully, does any book/movie. And also somewhat link with G1 episodes for us fans was great. The movieverse should not have to be placed in comparison with the cartoon, but should be an inspired evolution which this movie was.

You could easily follow up this movie, with Unicron coming because of cybertron wormhole, galvatron rising, ghost scream existing on the world wide web. My imagination is running away.. the magic of money always has a way of making a sequel.

But to close.... Very impressed- 99% because nothing is ever perfect :)

LordCyrusOmega

1st July 2011, 11:39 PM

You could easily follow up this movie, with Unicron coming because of cybertron wormhole, galvatron rising, ghost scream existing on the world wide web. My imagination is running away.. the magic of money always has a way of making a sequel.

That would be so cool. Planet sized enemies have been done before eg Rise of the Silver Surfer, Green Lantern so it shouldn't be to hard.
I'd love to see the dinobots go up against Galvatron and Co

klystron

2nd July 2011, 12:55 AM

Just got back from seeing it for the first time, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Probably the best of the 3 movies.
I thought the storyline wasn't too bad for an action movie. No action movie plot stands up to sever scrutiny, especially one with giant mechanoid aliens from outer space with a transdimensional space bridge capable of transporting an entire planet. I think some people are looking for a little too much. (And physics defying action scenes? C'mon. Try physics defying of the sudden appearence of a gravity well larger than our own inside the orbit of the moon!)
Personally I don't give a ... about character development. If I want that I'll watch an Oscar winning drama movie. I just want cool visual appealing actions scenes, and transformers doing things (don't even care what) on screen. (Are my expectations of these movies too low? Perhaps).

Some good points:
nice references to the TF universe (Wreckers, Ark, etc)
some good cameos (I had to tell my son that was the real Buzz!)
good comedic moments especially Wheelie/Brains combo (and the "clusterf..." line)
the slo-mo transformation and action sequences - they gave you a bit more time to fully appreciate exactly what was going on and absorb the awesome visuals.
Rosie Huntington-Whitney.
Hermity-Megs was cool, and I would have liked a little more time spent on him (what the hell was he doing in Africa with all those hatchlings? And who is looking after them now?).
BBee is badass and still the best of the Autobots (SSwipe a close 2nd)
Very brutal TFvsTF fight scenes, and TF killing humans scenes

Some of the bad:
Shockwave was fully lame.
Bay perhaps tried to cram a bit too much into this movie (its almost exhausting to watch)
too much humans running around wrecked city streets, and the breaking building scene went on way too long.
Q was crap
Laserbeak could transform into too many things (this just didn't sit right with me)

Anyways, I really liked it and can't wait to go see it again.
(Still not going to buy any DOTM toys though).

tjparkside

2nd July 2011, 02:44 AM

i liked the movie!
although reading many spoilers & viewing most trailers :p there where still enough suprises!
i will see it again! i am happy the movie is finally out! :)

Doubledealer

2nd July 2011, 10:43 AM

Saw it last night. It's official, the first movie was a fluke.

Sam

2nd July 2011, 11:33 AM

My wife and I watched this last night. Really enjoyed it.

She was sad that Iron Hide died, as Iron Hide was and is still her favourite TF character (since when she was 9). I said that ... well ... you have to have a kinda important character die for there to be some emotional impact (at least, that's what I thought).

Also, did anyone think that the storyline bears similarities to the G1 episode "The Ultimate Doom" ?

King Atlas

2nd July 2011, 12:37 PM

I'm still not sure if I want to see this, especially after the atrocity that is ROTF.

Tetsuwan Convoy

2nd July 2011, 06:12 PM

Could we consider Cybertron destoyed from the ending of this move? After the command pillar was destroyed and the bridge stopped working, cybertron went into a sot of whillpool look and seemed to crumble away.

If thats the case, then surely the next movie will look like Galaxy Force!!!!:D

Defcon

2nd July 2011, 06:16 PM

Watched it last night. I enjoyed the first half of the movie because I could relax and understand what was unfolding. The humor was tolerable.

The 2nd half, with the battle in Chicago. it felt like it dragged on and the action was cut into pieces divided between different groups, eg. soldiers on the ground, soldiers parachuting in, decepticon aerial patrols, shockwave and the worm beast, Optimus prime a weapon of mass destruction! Sentinel prime giving orders and back again to the soldiers, and so on. Then bang Abrupt ending. I didn't really enjoy the 2nd half, I felt like I have seen it before in the recent movie Battle for LA cause it just feels so generic.

To many action scenes as some were just unneccessary. An aftermath would have made this movie tons better.

griffin

2nd July 2011, 07:11 PM

I thought the big Decepticon Spaceship over Chicago looked like Jetfire's head.
For an acting virgin... Rosie did quite well, projecting the necessary expressions and feelings her character needed (except when talking to Megatron).

If anyone has access to the three comics (Rising Storm, Foundation and the Movie Adaptation), do read them... all of them. The first two may not be referred to in the movie, but makes the movie more enjoyable by adding dept to elements in it.
And the adaptation explains a lot of things in the movie that were fairly vague or not explained at all. PLUS, the original ending has Megatron finding redemption in himself, joining forces with Optimus to defeat Sentinel Prime and consider working together as Brothers again. YES, Megatron was meant to live!!!
(I did not see that one coming... and I think anyone who read the comic before seeing the movie, would have been surprised as well to see him killed off in the final cut of the movie)

SMHFConvoy

2nd July 2011, 09:04 PM

Still hate ROTF but at least DOTM redeems the franchise. Shame it took Bay two goes to get it right ;)

Deceptic0ns

2nd July 2011, 10:26 PM

Agree with post above. Went in with no expectations trying to avoid trailers etc, and must say i absolutely creamed myself when shockwave appeared! Coolest moment in cinema history since Blackout first transformed and proceeded to destroy the military base. Upset with Bay killing everything as per usual, the only way i can see this coming back now is the involvemnet of Unicron or the quintessons to bring in galvatron scourge cyclonus etc. A few more jets and some dinobots, ultra magnus and hot rod wouldn't go astray either. But very happy with Shockwave.

UltraMagnus

2nd July 2011, 11:11 PM

HD said to me they made Carly slutty. And she was delightfully slutty! :) White everywhere and I was waiting for the white bikini which would have been great.

Much better than #2 and went straight to the point. The ending was abrupt but other than that, thought it was a good movie.

Transformers #4 is certainly going to happen.

LordCyrusOmega

2nd July 2011, 11:25 PM

I'm still not entirely certain why Optimus killed Megatron. Felt like it came out of nowhere.
Optimus has come a long way from the first movie.
Movie 2007: Optimus gives many speeches and doesn't do much else but kill Bonecrusher and get used as a punching bag by Megatron.
DOTM: Optimus executes Sentinel Prime in what seemed to me cold blood.

It was obvious to me that Rosie was a model from the way she posed but she still held more screen presence and was more believable then miss Fox

Ace

2nd July 2011, 11:35 PM

i would have liked to have seen a better intro for the wreckers.. trying to avoid spoilers before i saw the film i was hoping the wreckers would be seen racing around a nascar track with bumblebee and sideswipe and and some sick fight scene goes down. oh well!

I was so devo when ironhide got raped by sentinel! I would have loved to have seen more involvement with ratchet, maybe even a scene where he and Q work together repairing something damaged due to a prior fight scene. We never actually get to see ratchet doing somthing awesome, or at least, what his role was meant to be.. a medic.

Seeing the film for a second time made me appreciate it more than i already did. I saw it in a lesser quality cinema (my opinion) than the first time and i was sad when it came to the end.

The franchise could totally go for a Transformers 4 and 5! or the old "one movie split in to two"
Movie 4: Definately stealing from the original animated movie, but rescue damaged/offline decepticons use their sparks in new bodies (enter cyclonus and sweeps) possibly soundwave to soundblaster? Unicron being master of course, searches for megatrons spark as well as sentinels and combines to create galvatron. Ultra Magnus, dyno bots, blaster small faction arrive on earth.

Movie 5: When Ultra magnus and co hear of new threat and impending doom they contact other survivors (Kup, Springer - other half of wreckers as well as new young gun hot rod!) anyways optimus goes down somehow, or isnt enough to beat galvatron alone so rodimus prime powers up by matrix power being divided into him and optimus. Optimus, Rodimus and Magnus lead a whole crew of awesomeness against Unicron and the decepticons.

Sigh, how cool would that be?

Deceptic0ns

2nd July 2011, 11:42 PM

Love it Ace sounds great. Would definately be a way to tie Nimoys voice from S Prime to Galvatron which is what i was having trouble connecting. Man Sentinel Prime was awesome i was actually shattered when he turned on the Autobots, how could a prime do that?

Ace

2nd July 2011, 11:52 PM

thanks dude! yeh i was bummed with the evil streak, although it was more of a shaded grey area.

p.s. did anyone else pick up the "more than meets the eye" tune played by laserbeak as a faulty printer?

SkyWarp91

3rd July 2011, 12:03 AM

Im grateful that Bay has given us another TF movie but for the end of such an epic-scaled trilogy that has touched so many surely Bay could have made it end less abruptly and have a more sincere ending. It does sound corny but it would have been a nice sendoff for fans and crew/cast of the tf franchise.

Deceptic0ns

3rd July 2011, 12:08 AM

Almost forgot Primes trailer, yes, that was awesome.

GoktimusPrime

3rd July 2011, 12:11 AM

Saw DotM for the 2nd time today. Ratchet does speak, but not as much as in the other films. His moments include:
+ When Sentinel Prime wakes up and attacks Optimus, I think it was Ratchet who told everyone that everything was okay.
+ Ratchet tells the Autobots and humans to "target that bridge."
+ Ratchet tells Bumblebee that he fought bravely.

...I still don't recall seeing Quejack transform.

I'm still not entirely certain why Optimus killed Megatron. Felt like it came out of nowhere.
Because after Megatron shot Sentinel, he basically told Megs something in the spirit of "Where would I be without you?" -- and Optimus Prime mutters, "Let's find out" before proceeding to kill Megatron.

Movie 2007: Optimus gives many speeches and doesn't do much else but kill Bonecrusher and get used as a punching bag by Megatron.
DOTM: Optimus executes Sentinel Prime in what seemed to me cold blood.
In ROTF Optimus Prime executed Wheelbot in cold blood.

A friend of mine felt it was strange that the Decepticons captured some Autobots as prisoners, yet the Autobots take no prisoners! Well, NEST did have Decepticon prisoners in the comics (until they were all liberated by Shockwave) -- but yeah, in the films the Autobots certainly don't take prisoners.

My fansplanation: the Decepticons took those Autobots as prisoners under Sentinel Prime's mandate... perhaps instructing the Decepticons not to kill the Autobots if they surrender without resistance. Until Gould came along and Soundwave agreed to disregard the mandate. <shrug>

SkyWarp91

3rd July 2011, 12:19 AM

My fansplanation: the Decepticons took those Autobots as prisoners under Sentinel Prime's mandate... perhaps instructing the Decepticons not to kill the Autobots if they surrender without resistance. Until Gould came along and Soundwave agreed to disregard the mandate. <shrug>

or soundwave took the autobots as prisoners to torture out intel on autobot reinforcements or to use as hostages if other decepticons were in trouble

Lord_Zed

3rd July 2011, 12:23 AM

I watched it a second time, and still enjoyed it, so very flawed though. On the rewatch I was surprised to find that for the most part the first half made some kind of sense, while the second was the usual Bay action nonsense with every part of the movie a vehicle for his next stunt. Basically I thought around the time we learn Cybertron is going to be teleported over and, Sam is going to enter Chicago to rescue whats her name it all goes to BAY.

I also thought this movie had more easter eggs and TF references that previous movies, I liked when Carly made reference to her new car having a raspy guttural engine sound (or words to that effect) that was actually reasonably clever.

Definitely prefer it to ROTF, some aspects I even like better than Bay movie one, however one is the only one with a mostly coherent plot.

More like Meantime (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Meantime)! :eek:

No no, he should be Nemesis Time Warrior

* Megatron, the indestructable, invincible leader of the Decepticons, reduced to a) bumming around the desert scaring elephants, b) being everyone's bitch, and c) taking advice from slutty-McDuckface. And then after he (pretty much) saves Optimus, he gets killed in like 2 seconds. Sadness.

Hey don't knock the Elephant scaring! :D
I agree with all of this excpet a) Megatron tooling round the Desert and hiding out in his awesome Poncho scaring elephants was cool, and would have made a lot more sense if he actually was down on his luck after the last movierather than about to launch his most fiendish scheme yet.

Did anyone else think the movie would make much more sense if Shockwave had made a deal with Sentinel instead of Megs? Megs could have then fought Shockwave or something, I dunno so many opportunity's wasted on one of Megs most awesome looking incarnations.

GoktimusPrime

3rd July 2011, 12:29 AM

p.s. did anyone else pick up the "more than meets the eye" tune played by laserbeak as a faulty printer?
Yup! :)

or soundwave took the autobots as prisoners to torture out intel on autobot reinforcements or to use as hostages if other decepticons were in trouble
But he never tortured them for intelligence. :( Dylan Gould basically told him to kill the Autobots, and Soundwave was like, "lol ok"

SkyWarp91

3rd July 2011, 12:50 AM

Yup! :)

But he never tortured them for intelligence. :( Dylan Gould basically told him to kill the Autobots, and Soundwave was like, "lol ok"

then the latter then, gould probably thought the decepticons would not have anymore problems thus why he ordered the executions

Lord_Zed

3rd July 2011, 01:19 AM

Or maybe the Decepticons in true villain tradition were planning to drop the Autobots into a pool full of Sharkticons with lasers on their heads for giggles, till Gould told them to shoot them now.

ok those Autobots as prisoners under Sentinel Prime's mandate... perhaps instructing the Decepticons not to kill the Autobots if they surrender without resistance. Until Gould came along and Soundwave agreed to disregard the mandate. <shrug>

Not that Sentinel gave Ironhide the surrender option, I guess he never liked Ironhide much.

SharkyMcShark

3rd July 2011, 03:27 AM

I've just realised that the only side in this that took prisoners was the Decepticons.

:confused:

Bartrim

3rd July 2011, 08:42 AM

I would of liked to have seen how the autobots got captured. I went to my second screening on Friday and will be seeing it a third time tonight. The only thing I really would of preferred so far is if the Chicago skirmish focused more on the autobots and lesson the humans.

GoktimusPrime

3rd July 2011, 10:10 AM

Not that Sentinel gave Ironhide the surrender option, I guess he never liked Ironhide much.
He was offended by Ironhide's return to his Diaclone colours. :p Dia-CLONNNNNE!

Or maybe the Decepticons in true villain tradition were planning to drop the Autobots into a pool full of Sharkticons with lasers on their heads for giggles, till Gould told them to shoot them now.
That's actually more plausible. Or maybe Soundwave's a really crap field commander who decided to capture instead of killing the Autobots, until Gould came along and something in his brain just went "He's right, DUH!"

But I like your explanation - Soundwave's a sadist and was planning on killing them slowly and painfully at his own leisure... like maybe dropping them into a pool of Sharkticons or forcing them to watch the StarTV dubs of the Japanese G1 anime series. Whateva. ;)

SMHFConvoy

3rd July 2011, 01:26 PM

Upset with Bay killing everything as per usual, the only way i can see this coming back now is the involvemnet of Unicron or the quintessons to bring in galvatron scourge cyclonus etc. A few more jets and some dinobots, ultra magnus and hot rod wouldn't go astray either. But very happy with Shockwave.

Yeah most of the main bots were fragged but hey if there's a TF4 at least they can bring in some new blood.

jaina85

3rd July 2011, 01:31 PM

i'm sorry if this has already been explained, buut..

in the second movie megatron worked for the fallen and wouldve wiped out all the humans? so how could his plan all along have been to work with sentinel to enslave us?

.. and if the primes killed themselves to stop the fallen originally way back when, then why is a prime happy to enslave us now?

Ace

3rd July 2011, 03:06 PM

because the script said so?

Hursticon

3rd July 2011, 04:18 PM

Never hurts to have a backup plan, besides, it was only a matter of time before Megatron usurped The Fallen anyway. ;):cool:

GoktimusPrime

3rd July 2011, 08:26 PM

in the second movie megatron worked for the fallen and wouldve wiped out all the humans? so how could his plan all along have been to work with sentinel to enslave us?
Remember that fairly early on in the conflict, The Fallen had already left Cybertron aboard the Nemesis with a massive compliment of Decepticons (including Soundwave) to find the Matrix. Megatron was ordered to stay behind on Cybertron to defend the AllSpark and battle the Autobots. During this time, Megatron had been out of contact with the Nemesis and her crew; for all he knew, they could have all been dead. So faced with that possibility, he might have agreed to making a secret pact with Sentinel Prime. After all, without The Fallen they may never find a Star Harvester - and even if they did, without the Matrix, they wouldn't even be able to activate it.

And if The Fallen turned to be alive later, then Megatron could easily betray Sentinel Prime anyway. But as it turned out, the Ark was inadvertently destroyed by Starscream (who wasn't aware of the pact -- very few would've known other than Sentinel and Megatron) -- Megatron didn't make contact with The Fallen again until after the Autobots executed their last desperate plan; launching the AllSpark Cube into space. It was during his chase of the AllSpark that Megatron detected the Nemesis' distress signal and was ordered by The Fallen to continue pursuing the Cube.

.. and if the primes killed themselves to stop the fallen originally way back when, then why is a prime happy to enslave us now?
Sentinel Prime's core morality is based on utilitarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism), i.e. "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few." He viewed the enslavement of humanity as being a necessary sacrifice in order to save Cybertron and the entire Transformers race (which one would assume must have a much greater population than that of humanity in order to justify his actions... unless Sentinel's morals has changed (or "corrupted" if you want to call it that) to consequentialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism) (the ends justify the means) - which is more similar to Megatron's brand of morality (but remembering that Megatron was also Sentinel's mentor too (http://tfwiki.net/w2/images2/b/be/Foundation1_freedom.jpg) - this was before Megatron came in contact with the Fallen who secretly became his new master).

SharkyMcShark

3rd July 2011, 08:31 PM

Just got sent this by a mate.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g406/yju895/001.gif

Deceptic0ns

3rd July 2011, 09:01 PM

Just got sent this by a mate.

http://i1100.photobucket.com/albums/g406/yju895/001.gif

Umm, WTF?

SharkyMcShark

3rd July 2011, 09:11 PM

Bay loves re using shots - the carrier group scene from RotF was from Pearl Harbour

Bartrim

3rd July 2011, 09:52 PM

Bay loves re using shots - the carrier group scene from RotF was from Pearl Harbour

He's not the first... He wont be the last.

i_amtrunks

3rd July 2011, 10:19 PM

So I went into the film with zero expectations (barring lots of explosions) and actually came away from the film not feeling angry, bitter or feeling like I was going to have an anuerism.

The first portion of the film (until Sentinel goes haywire) was really enjoyable, the humour segments worked, without taking over, and the story was interesting and developed nicely. Sure there were more than a few small sections that made little to no sense (Megatron playing with elephants anyone?)

But after the betrayal and death of one of the better characters, the movie got stale quick. The whole driller subplot, including the building scene could have been entirely removed with no ill effects, and the Decepticons as a whole did nothing of worth. Shockwave's one line was very disappointing, Starscream had a terribly lame death (for a terribly bad written "character"), and Soundwave and Megatron were also dispatched far too easily.

The last 5 or so minutes of the film were easily the worst, anyone who likes their Prime all "G1" and righteous will not like how callous he is in the final battle, and how anticlimatic it is. The post credit scene with Simmons was a tacky and rather dissapointing last scene for the franchise.

Overall the movie was too long, and it still suffered from similar problems that plagued its predecessors where there was far too little character development for any characters, everyone got a line or two, and that was about it. I dont think the movie should have delved into everyones backstory but more than "oi we built the ship" would have been nice.

DotM is a pretty decent popcrn flick, and was easily the best in the trilogy in terms of appearance, the 3d shots made Bay keep the camera steady, so you actually got to see the fighting. If you can ignore the plotholes, continuity errors and ogling shots, its a pretty good film, maybe just not for the younger ones, there is lots of graphic violence and language.

GoktimusPrime

3rd July 2011, 10:58 PM

I've been reading some comments from one of my non-TF mundaner friends and his friend. These comments don't necessarily reflect my opinions, but I'd thought it interesting to share what some "Joe Average" people think of this film...

"i was a bit disappointed in it. too much talking not enuff action & awsome battle scenes! but yeh, MOVE OVER MEGAN FOXXXXXX reeeoowwwwww! lol"

"love the highway scene where bumblebee transforms, jumps over cars/explosions, grabs sam and transforms back all in slow motion. And optimus was just pure badass!!"

Reading Dave Van Dom's comments atm... <rubs.chin>

Autocon

3rd July 2011, 11:35 PM

good summer flick. I think someone needs to reduce human time in order to reflect the bot character developments'''''trying to sound sophisticated''''

will see it again, tomorrow infact, depending on this job thing:rolleyes:

SharkyMcShark

3rd July 2011, 11:56 PM

One of my really good friends is a Transformers fan (non collector, but loves the comics and has read them all) and he disliked the movie.

My other good sci fi/action movie loving mate really liked it.

I'm going to canvas other people as the week goes on.

Paulbot

4th July 2011, 07:09 AM

So a quick look shows me there's 16 pages of comments so far. No time to read them at the moment but I thought I'd type up some thoughts of my way back to London. Just in case other people have been vague big spoilers follow

I really enjoyed this and came out smiling and satisfied. I had lowered my expectations after ROTF but was worried that this time the anticipation would leave me disappointed. (Today was the first time I was in a country showing the film in English. Knowing it was out but I couldn't see it had been really frustrating since Wednesday. )

I was delighted by a movie that had a much clearer, better plotted story, raised the stakes in ways ROTF only teased at, included nostalgic nods to classic G1 cartoon episodes (intentional or not), and kept me enthralled through out.

The action scenes were clearer to follow, and a bit more violent; not just the humans being reduced to skulls and the bus of corpses, but also the robots spraying red liquid when damaged. The Michael Bay cheesecake seemed more tongue in cheek, and the car beauty shots didnt take up too much time. Yes I rolled my eyes when we were introduced to Carly via her bottom, but I also laughed at him choosing this for the first scene post title.

I was surprised by how big a role Laserbeak had, how it matched the interrogator role of his G1 tech spec, and his robot/beast mode looked really good. Most of the new non-generic designs were quite nice really. That big green Decepticon is one I'd like a better look at. And look Barricade is back! That was nice. (But Arcee, Jolt, Skids and Mudflap either dead or previously left the planet between movies?).

It didn't bother me that some of the expected G1 name homages didn't play out. This isn't G1. Shockwave got to be a big heavy with a big weapon and was still a challenging threat to take down despite not resembling the G1 character any more than superficially.

I wanted this film to give some explanation as to why anything that leaves Cybertron seems to end up on Earth (the AllSpark, Megatron, the Primes and the Ark? We got half an answer (I assume the Allspark was drawn to the Matrix as the other half of the puzzle) but what an answer! Despite all the threats of Internet spoilers and previewed BotCon footage I had no idea the betrayal was coming and it upset me. I felt a very child like reaction of "I don't want my Sentinel Prime now, He just killed Ironhide, he's not the Autobot I thought he was! ". If the toy was with me I would have thrown it across the cinema in disgust that's how angry I was (but it's safely in Golden Phoenix's care back in Aus waiting for me to calm down). That the movie managed to move me that much gives it extra points.

I'm trying to think of lowlights and mostly there's only really geeky thoughts coming to mind (like why do Decepticons need fighter craft when they can transform into fighter craft). Mrs Witwicky's dirty humor was back to being subtle again and brief. Simmons played a competent role that made more sense for someone who was in command at Sector Seven than Internet conspiracy theorist. I wasn't even offended by the gay panic humour in the office scenes.

Okay I didn't like Laserbeak being such a chameleon/multichanger transformer, and Wheeljack/Q's head was pretty silly, and there's probably a few other plot holes in there that are slowly coming to me as I think about it (why did the Primes go out to the desert and why did Sentinel come back alone ahead of Optimus) and more might come to me as I rewatch it.

In conclusion I enjoyed the finale to the Bayverse and look forward to rewatching it. I didn't think that after ROTF so that makes me happy.

1AZRAEL1

4th July 2011, 08:56 AM

He's not the first... He wont be the last.

Yea, it's amazing to find out how often it happens. I mean, I have never seen The Island, but I don't think I would never have noticed if it wasn't pointed out to me.

Another incidence which I found out from a member of Seibertron

the ending dance in Beauty and The Beast. They ran out of money doing the CG stuff and couldn't animate the ending so they painted over the ending dance from Sleeping Beauty.

Meh, doesn't really bother me. Works well in DOTM anyway.

Besides, I see reusing molds as the same thing :p

Soundwarp

4th July 2011, 09:23 AM

OK IMO i really don't like Michael Bay.

It is a Transformer movie not the Sam movie......

I'm going back to watch it again but im not happy with the little amount of Transformers in it.

Sleeve

4th July 2011, 09:53 AM

It's no surprise Bay has reused footage from previous Transformers films in sequels, like the Autobots/Decepticons arriving from space, but taking it from a completely different film? This is just too good. (http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2011/07/03/michael-bay-reuses-the-island-footage-for-transformers-3/)

KillinSpoon

4th July 2011, 10:28 AM

Well played Bay, well played.

theheretic

4th July 2011, 10:59 AM

Very well done. Extra credit!

1AZRAEL1

4th July 2011, 11:14 AM

But he's not the first person to do it, and won't be the last.

I don't know why this is such a big deal to some people.

Sleeve

4th July 2011, 11:24 AM

Personally I don't have a problem with it, in fact I think it's a smart move considering the money he'd save. It's great that it's not just stock stand footage, like establishing shots, but high quality action scenes taking new form. I say 'well done'.

1AZRAEL1

4th July 2011, 11:38 AM

I wasn't aiming my comment at you, just reading on other boards that people think this is a new thing. Saves money, and time to film the shot. Only thing that needs to be done is adding the CG to it, and most moviegoers would not even have noticed it.

Just gives haters another excuse for them to say they hate M Bay :p

Verno

4th July 2011, 11:44 AM

I got up to page 6 of this thread, but can't not post my response. I'll go back and read it all, I promise, and apologies if I go over something thats already been covered.

Hated it.

Is '4500X' some kind of Code for Michael Bay? Because it was the Helicopter in the 1st movie, and then it was on the Private Jet in the hanger in DOTM. WTF?

Enough with the Spock references. On the TV, several Spock quotes ripped off throughout. Yes, it's Leonard Nimoy, but we've had him before and we resisted the temptation to rip off his previous work.

Too much human crap. You guys have said (from what I've read thus far) the story was based around the Transformers... But the Autobots seemed to be missing for the entire movie?! Especially in the battle at the end. It was all humans on to nameless faceless Decepticons.

No character introductions. I've avoided reading or watching anything DOTM related for months, and I had no idea who the new characters were.

What is Shockwave's octopus-drill thing? Is it based on anything?!

Space Bridge? We saw that in the last movie and it was just some gimmick of travel. But now Sentinel Prime invented it and it's huge? Pft.

We were in a falling building for far, far too long.

I'm sure I'll think of some more stuff to complain about, but for now, that'll do.

I'll agree, the opening montage on Cybertron was great. Best part of the movie. All downhill from there.

Verno

4th July 2011, 11:55 AM

Chances of a 4th movie? 0%. They've killed all the Decepticon Leaders. Megs, Screamer, Soundwave, Shockwave... What are they gonna do? Bring Megatron back to life... AGAIN... but this time call him Galvatron?!

And so let me get this straight...

According to the 1st movie, Megatron was out buying space groceries and looking for the Allspark cube thing, but got screwed up by Earth gravitational field and crashed on Earth and fell asleep.

Thats how we understood it from the 1st movie, correct?

But now, he was actually meeting Sentinal Prime here to talk tactics, but Sentinal crashed on the Moon and he crashed on Earth, but that just happens to be where the Allspark was hiding?

Come on.

Sleeve

4th July 2011, 12:02 PM

Verno

4th July 2011, 12:38 PM

And what the hell is MechTech?!

All I've heard about are MechTech toys! I was expecting McDreamy's character to pull a fast one on the Decepticons and give the Autobots some new technology that would help them fight better. Thats what I expected MechTech to be.

But no.

Their new weapons weren't even mentioned in the movie, nor where they came from.

Ridiculous.

i_amtrunks

4th July 2011, 01:07 PM

I was expecting more focus on the armoured alt modes, especially for the Wreckers and even Bumblebee.

Had a bit of a chat with non tf fans, they seemed to enjoy it as an action flick, but so far there is not a person (from the 6 I've talked to thus far) who enjoyed the worm and building scenes.

I know it has been discussed before, but why does Starscream spit whenever he talks? And did the novel explain why laserbeak also seems to leak from the beak?

mannix59

4th July 2011, 01:42 PM

Fundamentally I Thought DOTM was Fantastic!

I was blown away by the action sequences. Seeing the integration of beloved characters into real world scenarios.....;)

I was thrilled certain bots got some more screen time and a touch more characterization compared to ROTF.

Sentinel Prime was awesome. I really hated him.

Although said use of "characterization" is a double edged sword.

Once again my childhood hero (Optimus) was frequently reduced to a cold remorseless murderer "we'll kill them all"? Not exactly the beacon of honor and justice I grew up with..... :confused:

Simple dialogue tweaks could have softened the blow at least, perhaps even justified certain actions (at least from our hero's point of view).

I've just got to remember this isn't G1.

This is a Michael Bay Transformers Movie for the masses.

Popcorn, explosions and escapism, and at the end of the day there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm just thrilled to see Optimus on the side of buses all around town, and once again we get to share "our" Transformers with the world. :D

Paul Agnew

4th July 2011, 01:44 PM

Meh, I'm cool with this. At least he used footage from his own movie. ;)

Demonac

4th July 2011, 01:47 PM

Imagine the shock and horror if people watch Star Trek: TMP & Star Trek 2 back to back.

Maxiewolf

4th July 2011, 02:37 PM

Well now thats all in G1 Cartoon tradition now isnt it :-P

PCVirus

4th July 2011, 03:22 PM

I agree, its not the first time and it wont be the last.

I'm more impressed with whoever got the footage online ;)

WIIGII

4th July 2011, 05:04 PM

does anyone actually know what Megatron was doing during the whole chicago battle?? I mean, one minute he's all "Decepticons, defend the pillars" then an hr later after, he's found bumming around like he was taking a nap :confused:

First time i saw it, i thought i missed a part where he fell off the building and got knocked out, or perhaps Sentinel knocked him out temporarily when he tore off some of Meg's head earlier, but the 2nd time i watched it, Megatron is alive and well after Sentinel "reminded" him he's working 'with' megatron, not 'for' him (this is when megs goes- defend the pillars).

I was heavily dissapointed that Prime and Megatron didn't get a proper showdown- i mean, 3rd and final Transformer movie, and the ONLY interaction Prime and Megatron get are "let's find out" -AXE!!!! :mad:

The_Damned

4th July 2011, 05:11 PM

well i have seen the island 3 times and i didnt notice and now i know i couldnt care any less :cool:

Verno

4th July 2011, 05:22 PM

And that ending - So abrupt! Prime has one arm, kills Megs, The End. No victory dance or anything.

So does that mean the Great War is over then?

The Autobots can go back to whatever is left of Cybertron and fight whoever is left there now that the Decepticons are leaderless?

Stuff just don't make sense.

GoktimusPrime

4th July 2011, 05:23 PM

How come Sentinel Prime speaks English as soon as he's activated? He's never been on Earth before... unless Ratchet or someone uploaded Earth's languages into his noggin' prior to Optimus Prime reviving him with the Matrix. But you'd think that'd be a later priority. Ah well. :p

Yes I rolled my eyes when we were introduced to Carly via her bottom, but I also laughed at him choosing this for the first scene post title.
And if you are gonna do close up shots like that, then tell the actress to freakin' shave her legs properly! And her arms too... damn! :eek:

(But Arcee, Jolt, Skids and Mudflap either dead or previously left the planet between movies?).
Jolt was killed by Shockwave in events prior to the movie. Elita-1 was also killed by Shockers, but Arcee and Chromia survived -- no idea what happened to them. Skids and Mudflap are apparently in the movie. According to TFwiki you can see them briefly in one scene or something... but I don't blame you if you missed them. I've seen the movie twice and I didn't notice them both times! I only know about it because I read about it on TFwiki looking for an explanation about their fates. :p

It didn't bother me that some of the expected G1 name homages didn't play out. This isn't G1. Shockwave got to be a big heavy with a big weapon and was still a challenging threat to take down despite not resembling the G1 character any more than superficially.
I can get over the fact that this isn't G1 and that DotM Shockwave isn't G1 Shockwave... fine. He doesn't need to be all logical and emotionless -- although the prequel comics established that he is. But fine, for the film he doesn't have to be. But he really didn't get developed into any kind of character at all, did he?? He was kinda like, "That evil worm-keeper." He didn't even transform. (-_-) I don't mind DotM Shockwave having an entirely different character from his G1 namesake... what bothers me more is a lack of character in general. :(

I wanted this film to give some explanation as to why anything that leaves Cybertron seems to end up on Earth (the AllSpark, Megatron, the Primes and the Ark? We got half an answer (I assume the Allspark was drawn to the Matrix as the other half of the puzzle) but what an answer!
lol, tru dat! :D The Cube coming to Earth may be explained by the Matrix... but yeah... the Ark?! Especially considering that it was hurtling aimlessly through space! What luck!. :)

I'm trying to think of lowlights and mostly there's only really geeky thoughts coming to mind (like why do Decepticons need fighter craft when they can transform into fighter craft).
This doesn't make sense to me either. :o

Wheeljack/Q's head was pretty silly,
It bugged me heaps when I first saw it - but on second viewing I came to accept it. I don't like it, but I don't hate it as much as I initially did. Aside from the obvious Einstein reference, I can see its vague resemblance to G1 Wheeljack - but maybe it's because I read the comic adaptation after watching the film for the first time, and the comic art kinda draws it in a way that makes him look a bit more Wheeljackish. :/

and there's probably a few other plot holes in there that are slowly coming to me as I think about it (why did the Primes go out to the desert and why did Sentinel come back alone ahead of Optimus) and more might come to me as I rewatch it.
I'd assumed that Optimus was giving Sentinel a bit of a tour of his new home. Not sure why/how they got separated after that though.

Enough with the Spock references. On the TV, several Spock quotes ripped off throughout. Yes, it's Leonard Nimoy, but we've had him before and we resisted the temptation to rip off his previous work.
I didn't mind it, but some of my friends who came with me on my second viewing did feel it was over the top - particularly one friend of mine who's a Trek fan.

No character introductions. I've avoided reading or watching anything DOTM related for months, and I had no idea who the new characters were.
It's a lot like the G1 cartoon in that regard -- characters just show up with little or no explanation of how they got there! (e.g. Perceptor, Beachcomber, Tracks, Dirge, Ramjet... the list goes on and on)

The new characters did all have their names introduced in the film and it was explained that they were a new batch of Autobot refugees who arrived aboard the Xanthium - the spaceship that the Autobots used to travel to the moon to retrieve Sentinel and leave Earth, and destroyed by Starscream.

What is Shockwave's octopus-drill thing? Is it based on anything?!
Takotank.

I'm kidding. Seems to be a new creation for the movieverse. Although the Vehicons had those "moles" in Beast Machines... still not quite the same thing though.

Space Bridge? We saw that in the last movie and it was just some gimmick of travel. But now Sentinel Prime invented it and it's huge? Pft.
Yeah but Jetfire's space bridge allows him to teleport himself and individuals within his proximity - and presumably there may be a limit to his range. IIRC Jetfire didn't teleport to Earth. Sentinel's Space Bridge can transport something as massive as Cybertron across galaxies.

They probably shouldn't have called Jetfire's teleportation a "space bridge", or knowing that it was called a Space Bridge, they probably should've avoided calling Sentinel Prime's space bridge a "Space Bridge" -- call it Transwarp Drive or something. But that would imply that Michael Bay pays attention. :p

Chances of a 4th movie? 0%. They've killed all the Decepticon Leaders. Megs, Screamer, Soundwave, Shockwave... What are they gonna do? Bring Megatron back to life... AGAIN... but this time call him Galvatron?!
Aw come on, there are SO many more characters from the G1 universe that they can draw from other than early G1, which is where most of the major players in the movieverse have come from. It'd be good to see a new Decepticon leader step up to the plate, e.g.:
+ Scorponok -- okay, they shouldn't use the same name; they could call him "Zarak." ;)
+ Overlord
+ Deathsaurus
+ Galvatron - he doesn't have to be the same being as Megatron. The original toy bio establishes him as a separate Decepticon, and in the IDWverse he's a separate being too.
+ Bludgeon -- he's already on Earth. While Bludgeon was defeated in Rising Storm, he wasn't definitively killed.
+ Thunderwing
+ RATBAT! :D
...etc.

Starscream's gone, but what about Thundercracker, Skywarp, Ramjet, Thrust, Dirge etc??

It's absolutely possible for someone to make a sequel to DotM without rebooting continuity so long as they don't box themselves into "Gee Wun." We've already had three movies predominantly inspired by Gee Wun... what about the rest of G1?

According to the 1st movie, Megatron was out buying space groceries and looking for the Allspark cube thing, but got screwed up by Earth gravitational field and crashed on Earth and fell asleep.

Thats how we understood it from the 1st movie, correct?

But now, he was actually meeting Sentinal Prime here to talk tactics, but Sentinal crashed on the Moon and he crashed on Earth, but that just happens to be where the Allspark was hiding?

Come on.
The pact between Sentinel and Megatron would have been made back on Cybertron long before the Cube was ejected into space and Megatron made his sojourn. As to WHY the Ark hurtled aimlessly to space and happened to smack into Earth's Moon... yeah... biggest fluke ever? :p :p

And what the hell is MechTech?!

All I've heard about are MechTech toys! I was expecting McDreamy's character to pull a fast one on the Decepticons and give the Autobots some new technology that would help them fight better. Thats what I expected MechTech to be.

But no.

Their new weapons weren't even mentioned in the movie, nor where they came from.
The Transformers had pop out weapons since the first movie. It's not too hard to assume that they've made upgrades for themselves in the meantime, particularly with the arrival of additional Cybertronian technology (e.g. the Xanthium).

Once again my childhood hero (Optimus) was frequently reduced to a cold remorseless murderer "we'll kill them all"? Not exactly the beacon of honor and justice I grew up with..... :confused:
Yeah, people have complained about this since Optimus Prime executed Wheelbot in cold blood back in Shanghai in ROTF. Still funny how the Autobots don't take prisoners, yet the Decepticons do! :p

Simple dialogue tweaks could have softened the blow at least, perhaps even justified certain actions (at least from our hero's point of view).
Yeah, same prob as the Shanghai scene in ROTF. There may have been something better in the original script that got editted out, e.g. in the RotF comic adaptation Optimus Prime says, "I wish there were another way" or something to that effect before killing Wheelbot. i.e. he explicitly expresses regret to what he has to do. I've only read #1 of the DotM comic so far...

I've just got to remember this isn't G1.
Yeah. Movieverse Optimus Prime is actually more like Dai Atlas -- caring and compassionate to his friends, but utterly merciless to his foes.

i_amtrunks

4th July 2011, 05:35 PM

Can't half tell that Gok is on holidays now can you? :p

The death of named characters in the film still felt emotionless, in terms from reaction from other characters. Ironhides death occurred at the turning point of the film, yet the autobots reacted much the same way to his death as to Jazz's in the first film. I guess it's fair to not care about "Q" since he had only just arrived on the planet and said all of three lines in the film. :rolleyes:

By no means was I expecting a funeral service for the fallen bots, but Prime saying "this is for Ironhide" while mashing Sentinels face into the asphalt would ave been nice (and cliched!)

Verno

4th July 2011, 05:40 PM

The Transformers had pop out weapons since the first movie. It's not too hard to assume that they've made upgrades for themselves in the meantime, particularly with the arrival of additional Cybertronian technology (e.g. the Xanthium).

My point is though - This is the major 'gimmick' of the Movie Toys, yet it's not even mentioned in the movie?!

I would have loved to have seen an 'Upgrade' scene. All the Autobots getting some pimpin' new gear to slag some 'cons. But no.

'What, oh this gun? Yeah I've had it for a while.'

If I was one who actually bought MovieVerse toys, I'd feel jipped. In essence, the toys are no different from ones from the previous 2 movies, but playing on this MechTech idea, and then not delivering on it in the final product? Disgraceful.

GoktimusPrime

4th July 2011, 05:59 PM

My point is though - This is the major 'gimmick' of the Movie Toys, yet it's not even mentioned in the movie?!
That's cos the movie's not based on the toys, but rather the other way around. HasTak would've placed more focus on MechTech as a running play feature and part of marketing the toy line.

I would have loved to have seen an 'Upgrade' scene. All the Autobots getting some pimpin' new gear to slag some 'cons. But no.
But is that a _really_ pivotal part of the story? I mean, in the Star Wars films we see technological progressions, but they're not explicitly shown or explained -- it's just assumed that it happens.

If I was one who actually bought MovieVerse toys, I'd feel jipped. In essence, the toys are no different from ones from the previous 2 movies, but playing on this MechTech idea, and then not delivering on it in the final product? Disgraceful.
Again, it's because the movie wasn't made to explicitly market the toys. This is why I generally prefer it when the toys are made first, then later adapted to comics, TV, movies etc. But for the live action films, I can understand why they make it as a film franchise first, then it's up to Hasbro to make toys based on the film.

Verno

4th July 2011, 06:03 PM

Again, it's because the movie wasn't made to explicitly market the toys.

Are you kidding?! It's a 150 minute toy commercial! It's no different to any other TF media - It's sole purpose is to sell toys!

And that's a sad realisation I've had to come to terms with of late, in regard to all things TF.

Gutsman Heavy

4th July 2011, 06:18 PM

Are you kidding?! It's a 150 minute toy commercial! It's no different to any other TF media - It's sole purpose is to sell toys!

Not really, Toys are a part of it, but Paramount is far more interested in big ass movie bucks, toys are just a part of it.

The TV shows on the other hand...

Decepticon

4th July 2011, 06:25 PM

Doesnt bother me. Bay could probably afford a few more explosions by doing it that way.

Lord_Zed

4th July 2011, 08:33 PM

To be honest that was a pretty awesome car chase in both films, at least he was rehashing a "Best of Bay" rather than his usual stock footage of jets taking of and tanks rolling and the rest of the military crap that was a little less prevalent this time around surprisingly.

MECHA MALAKA

4th July 2011, 08:44 PM

yeah like THAT was a problem worth caring about compared to the rest!
actually its a surprise that that whole scene wasn't shot in the back ground of a flattering shot of Rosie Huntington-Whiteley

LordCyrusOmega

4th July 2011, 10:20 PM

Plenty of room for a fourth. Decepticons are all over the planet after setting up Space Bridge pillars.
I doubt it will happen though. Bay really didn't want to do this one and I don't think anything will make him do it again. A reboot would be good.
Or a live action series.

Magnus

4th July 2011, 10:21 PM

My 2c...

I thought it was amazing - it promises spectacle, and delivers.

Considering it's her acting debut, I think Rosie Huntington-Whiteley does pretty well. I enjoyed watching most of the other human characters as well, the new characters as well as the returning ones.

I like Megatron's look for this movie - the combination of a bulky, worn look, the chains and the cloak just works somehow. I was wondering how that would look onscreen (especially the cloak) after seeing the Voyager toy.

Laserbeak talking - I wasn't expecting that (I had thought he'd be like Ravage or Scorponok in that he doesn't talk), but I think it makes him more malevolent and creepy.

Sentinel Prime - Leonard Nimoy was excellent, and I really liked watching Sentinel's exchanges with Optimus. The revelation about his deal with Megatron and his subsequent shooting of Ironhide came out of nowhere, especially after the freeway chase which saw him being protected from the Decepticon Suburbans.

The other new Autobots... I didn't mind Que/Wheeljack. It would've been nice if Dino and the Wreckers got a bit more screen time, though. Brains formed an amusing duo with Wheelie.

As a whole, even though I found I didn't have too much difficulty following what was happening the first time I saw it, at the same time, there was almost too much to take in after the start of the Chicago sequence. (The upside is that this movie's pacing doesn't make it feel 'slow'.) I found a second viewing really helped in this regard - I could also pay more attention to some of the finer details and appreciate the score better.

So... yeah, I liked it. :)

griffin

4th July 2011, 11:37 PM

My point is though - This is the major 'gimmick' of the Movie Toys, yet it's not even mentioned in the movie?!

I would have loved to have seen an 'Upgrade' scene. All the Autobots getting some pimpin' new gear to slag some 'cons. But no.

'What, oh this gun? Yeah I've had it for a while.'

If I was one who actually bought MovieVerse toys, I'd feel jipped. In essence, the toys are no different from ones from the previous 2 movies, but playing on this MechTech idea, and then not delivering on it in the final product? Disgraceful.

They didn't mention the 'Auto-Morph' or 'Mech-Alive' gimmicks from the first two movies either... so I didn't expect anything referring to 'Mechtech' in this one.

SkyWarp91

4th July 2011, 11:52 PM

lol those shots are super expensive, don't blame Bay for reusing them lol

GoktimusPrime

5th July 2011, 12:10 AM

From June 2011's issue of Empire Magazine:

While Transformers 4 is inevitable -- "We've only touched the tip of the iceberg of this mythology," says Di Bonaventura -- it is unlikely that it will be with Bay.

Lord_Zed

5th July 2011, 12:15 AM

They didn't mention the 'Auto-Morph' or 'Mech-Alive' gimmicks from the first two movies either... so I didn't expect anything referring to 'Mechtech' in this one.

If they did I think it would not be a good sign for the movie industry, bad enough the're full of blatant product placement, but when the characters start saying their names and the names of their weapons over and over again like some of the latter TF cartoons then you know things are really going downhill.

Hursticon

5th July 2011, 01:16 AM

Meh, good on Bay for having the forethought on cost saving procedures and a memory that works so creatively - I'd like to think the money saved was spent on making Soundwave look all the more awesome though. ;):D

Stompy

5th July 2011, 01:27 AM

I enjoyed it superficially. It felt like 2 incomplete movies sewn together. One half some bizarre action/thriller/comedy with Sam and the humans, the other half felt like the Transformers movie full of all the robot action we wanted. While the human portions of the film felt coherent and at times self-satirical the robot scenes felt like they accidentally deleted 2/3 of the scenes and just quickly cut and pasted the remaining 1/3 of the robot scenes they had.

What I liked:
- Human Characters were even more cartoony
- It felt like a real brutal war
- deaths of popular bots
- Wheelie & Brains
- Laserbeak!
- Shockwaves entrance
- The Crankcases!
- John Malkovich & Frances MacDormand!

What I didn't like:
- It went for an hour too long
- too much human action scenes
- Not enough robot action
- some bizarre plot holes/moments (Megs dissapearing, Optimus Dangling for about half the battle in wires?)
- Lack of transformation scenes (seems to be getting less and less each film)
- Wreckers did nothing
- Sam killing Starscream unrealistically. (Really now?)
- a girl telling the great Destron leader he's a pawn and falling for it? Puh-lease.
- Deaths of popular bots

I for one actually liked the slightly darker more brutal direction this movie took. Remember that they are at war and this universe Autobots are trained for it, hence the brutal but efficient ways they finish off their enemies. I think Primes sheer brutality really reflects his passion and and compassion for peace by eliminating this universe's evil and non-diplomatic Decepticons.

Otherwise, while I enjoyed it with my brain switched off, I can't label it as a Transformers movie. It was more just a different action movie with the occasional "robot fighting commercials"which seem to only come in 30 minute intervals and at about 2 mins each. While most of the scenes were great, the other parts are just baffling. The wreckers just drove around shooting their guns and took a long time to untangle Prime? What a waste of great mech designs that could have lent themselves to a well directed action sequence.

rocman12

5th July 2011, 11:34 AM

Watched it last night in 3D, i thought it was an average movie. I think they had the right idea on the storyline, but it wasn't executed properly. I wish they would show better scenes of all the bots & cons transforming. Now that Megatron's dead, i wonder how they're gonna bring Galvatron (assuming they decide he will be next decepticon leader) into the series.

5FDP

5th July 2011, 12:01 PM

Question for those that have seen it at IMAX - I was under the impression that there was suppose to be an extra 20 something mins of footage. I did not notice any extra scenes nor did I notice any scenes filmed using IMAX film (it was 'letter-boxed' the whole time). Did anyone else notice this or am I just dreamin' :confused:

GoktimusPrime

5th July 2011, 12:57 PM

I wasn't aware that Bay shot any extra scenes for IMAX or even used an IMAX camera. With ROTF he did have an IMAX camera which he used to shoot certain scenes that were added in the IMAX version. With DOTM he's obviously used 3D cameras to shoot certain scenes... not sure if he used any IMAX cameras though. Without the use of IMAX cameras then I imagine there wouldn't be any extra scenes in the IMAX version.

Now that Megatron's dead, i wonder how they're gonna bring Galvatron (assuming they decide he will be next decepticon leader) into the series.
Galvatron doesn't have to be the same character as Megatron. That's just something that they did in the G1 comics and cartoon - but in the original toy continuity Galvatron was a separate character. Likewise in the current IDW Neo-G1 continuity, Galvatron is an entirely separate character. And badly drawn in Hearts of Darkness <shudder>

And there are plenty of other Decepticon leaders they could use other than Galvatron. Bring on Movieverse Ratbat!! :D

5FDP

5th July 2011, 01:07 PM

Thanks Goki :) I looked into it further and found an answer.

I first read about it on TFW (http://www.tfw2005.com/transformers-news/transformers-movie-just-movie-31/update-transformers-dark-of-the-moon-imax-version-running-time-revealed-172426/) however after that story was posted, there was a response on Michael Bay's Website which stated....

"Imax print of #Transformers3 has no extra footage as being reported by some web sites. TF3 is 2hrs & 22mins plus 10min credit crawl."

It seems I missed that update :o Well that sucks! It was one of the main reasons I went to see it at IMAX.

rampagesss

5th July 2011, 03:11 PM

I havent seen it yet, but is it worth seeing it? After ROTF ive been put off the movies a little.

Also do they explain what happened to Megan Fox's character?

KillinSpoon

5th July 2011, 03:21 PM

I havent seen it yet, but is it worth seeing it? After ROTF ive been put off the movies a little.

Also do they explain what happened to Megan Fox's character?

They 'broke up'...
I paraphrase also; 'Mom! Can you stop mentioning Mikaela!' (something along those lines...)
I think that's the only mention of her in the film :/

Gutsman Heavy

5th July 2011, 03:41 PM

Wheelie calls her a bitch.

KillinSpoon

5th July 2011, 03:44 PM

That's because Wheelie is a champ in this movie!

The_Damned

5th July 2011, 05:13 PM

That's because Wheelie is a champ in this movie!

yea him and brains were a epic partnership.

Sutton

5th July 2011, 05:35 PM

Don M has confirmed that they're definitely going to be doing a 4th, set in the Bayverse. No reboot just yet.

In fact, he mentioned a complete new trilogy. Keep in mind that this one will be sans M Bay and Shia, so it could be quite different.

KillinSpoon

5th July 2011, 05:41 PM

Errr... proof?

Doubledealer

5th July 2011, 06:11 PM

I havent seen it yet, but is it worth seeing it? After ROTF ive been put off the movies a little.

DotM is what you call a "polished turd". No matter how talented ILM are (and damn are they talented, Bay practically owes them everything), even they can't mask the fact that it's a yawn inducing, childish (yet too violent for children, who's the audience again?), poorly edited, overly long, over done, sonically appalling, Decepticon hating, human loving piece of ****.

Sutton

5th July 2011, 06:14 PM

Errr... proof?

What do you mean proof? I'm not going to copy and paste his posts wholesale. It's not exactly a press release, it's very early days.

The intention has always been for the franchise to be more like the 'Bond' films than an epic saga, IE each film more or less self contained.

KillinSpoon

5th July 2011, 06:25 PM

Ah well, I'll take your word for it then.
I just hope they don't screw around with BB and Prime as the main characters the entire time.
EVEN MOAR BUMBLEBEE REPAINTZ!

Sutton

5th July 2011, 06:35 PM

EVEN MOAR BUMBLEBEE REPAINTZ!

Jeeeesus Christ no!!! :D

Autocon

5th July 2011, 06:53 PM

Wheelie calls her a bitch.

youd think wheelie would have more of a connection with mikeala from humping her leg.

him and brains were cool

Sutton

5th July 2011, 07:24 PM

EVEN MOAR BUMBLEBEE REPAINTZ!

Actually, the most amazing thing about the 500 Bumblebee repaints out there is how many of them are actually new molds and not just repaints.

And why they chose to do a new leader BB mold with a ridiculous backpack when they could have retooled the awesome Battle Ops mold is beyond me...

SkyWarp91

5th July 2011, 07:28 PM

they could kill off bumblebee in this new trilogy after DOTM and have him replaced with CLIFFJUMPER!!!! :D:D

Lord_Zed

5th July 2011, 08:25 PM

they could kill off bumblebee in this new trilogy after DOTM and have him replaced with CLIFFJUMPER!!!! :D:D

He'd just come back as Goldbug.:p

gantz

6th July 2011, 09:04 AM

HAHAHAHAHA the rumours have began!

The newest: Jason Statham taking over for Shia.....

5FDP

6th July 2011, 01:44 PM

HAHAHAHAHA the rumours have began!

The newest: Jason Statham taking over for Shia.....

I'm a HUGE fan of Jason Statham :cool: Transporter meets Transformers :D It's a long way off from being a reality though so I'll just watch DOTM a few more times :p

SkyWarp91

6th July 2011, 03:30 PM

oh man Transformers with a ballsy, tough male lead? AWESOME

imagine the story ; carly dumps Sam to date Jason trolol

though come to think of it, doesn't the series need like a kid character the younger audiences can relate to? Or will Hasbro be willing to test the waters and try a movie without a young male lead?

GoktimusPrime

6th July 2011, 04:15 PM

Or maybe they wanna go for a different demographic since the "young kid" token human has already been totally done in the Bay Trilogy. Maybe they can set the story outside of America and have a non-American human lead! Like maybe... in Canada?! Oooh, exotic! :eek:

Verno

6th July 2011, 05:09 PM

SkyWarp91

6th July 2011, 06:34 PM

And another thing...

We don't have other actors we could use?!

Yay for Glenn Morshower...

But...

HE DIED IN THE 1ST MOVIE!

Do we not have other actors we could use? FFS.

WHAT?! He was in the 2nd one as a different character?!

Piss Off Michael Bay.

That's the whole point. Glenn is meant to be in all the TF Bay movies. It's like a running gag.

Or maybe they wanna go for a different demographic since the "young kid" token human has already been totally done in the Bay Trilogy. Maybe they can set the story outside of America and have a non-American human lead! Like maybe... in Canada?! Oooh, exotic! :eek:

Canadian Transformers will never happen. I can't see Optimus Prime saying 'eh?'

GoktimusPrime

6th July 2011, 07:04 PM

WHAT?! He was in the 2nd one as a different character?!
Pretty much. He played Col. Sharp in TF1, who died at the SOCCENT attack, whereas he played General Morshower in ROTF and DOTM.

Possible fansplanations:
+ They're twins whose have different surnames for some reason, e.g. divorced parents where the mother got remarried and one son took the new surname, or son reverted to mother's maiden name.
+ They're twins who were separated at birth and raised apart by different adoptive parents.

SkyWarp91

6th July 2011, 07:15 PM

Pretty much. He played Col. Sharp in TF1, who died at the SOCCENT attack, whereas he played General Morshower in ROTF and DOTM.

Possible fansplanations:
+ They're twins whose have different surnames for some reason, e.g. divorced parents where the mother got remarried and one son took the new surname, or son reverted to mother's maiden name.
+ They're twins who were separated at birth and raised apart by different adoptive parents.

OR

+ Micheal Bay recast Morshower to come back in all TF movies as a running gag

Sutton

6th July 2011, 08:33 PM

Piss Off Michael Bay.

Done :D

liegeprime

6th July 2011, 08:44 PM

I liked seeing it on 3D, well the TF battle scenes, not the human scenes. There's the usual annoying human drama in slow mo which is pointless. there's the usual humans not getting fractures or skin tears even though theyve been tossed like a ragdoll, although this time there are deaths, not enough considering the magnitude of the supposed salvo of attacks....but then I saw it for FREE so that's fine with me, good thing I didnt have much expectations after ROTF so this one is fine by me, way to end the series...KIll everyone off so no more 4th one since there's no one to defeat - kinda anticlimactic - as usual hehehehe

GoktimusPrime

6th July 2011, 11:37 PM

OR

+ Micheal Bay recast Morshower to come back in all TF movies as a running gag

I was trying to find an in-canon explanation. :p

While it's not unusual for people to use the same actor/actress to play different characters within the same franchise - often without explanation - but sometimes they try to explain it. For example, Freema Agyeman initially played Adeola Oshodi in Doctor Who; a technician at Torchwood I who was killed by Cybermen. She then later played Martha Jones, one of the companions of the Tenth Doctor and later becoming a member of UNIT (and momentarily attached to Torchwood III). The official explanation for the two of them looking the same? They're cousins. That's right... identical cousins. (-_-)

The twins separated at birth excuse sounds more plausible to me. (<_<)

Paulbot

7th July 2011, 03:56 AM

Discussion of actors for TF4 continued here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=11498)

Discussion of Morshower's dual roles and other unanswered questions from the movie continued here (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=11497)

Hursticon

7th July 2011, 01:12 PM

Saw DOTM for a 2nd time on Tuesday night with my Father and Brother - It still kicked a Longhaul's worth of Skid-plate with me having a much greater anticipation for Rosie's opening shot and Prime's glorious Energon Lust! :D:D:D
I'm also very glad to see that Global 6 Days sales have totalled over 400 Million! :eek::D

Soundwave and Laserbeak are easily the coolest characters in the film for so many reasons! ;):cool:

Autocon

7th July 2011, 10:26 PM

Saw it again today. Some dude sat next to me so I moved over one. He then moved over one...oh o......so I moved to the next aisle:p

I noticed more stuff this time around, namely barricade:p So there was a white and black version.

Cons felt a little lacking in combat ability just being smashed by the bots.

Hope to see it again in 2d:D

VERT

7th July 2011, 11:45 PM

I really liked it. So did the Kids. But had some trouble when she burst into tears when she thought the Autobots were leaving. Yeah its a popcorn movie. But I had fun :D In fact im watching it right now :D

Tober

8th July 2011, 09:59 AM

Finally got around to seeing it on Tuesday. So just a few observations below as everything else I was going to add has already been mentioned.

I found the 3D to be more distracting than adding anything to the movie, hasn't changed that much from what I remember seeing in the 80s
I missed Megan Fox - somehow it didn't really feel like a Bayformers movie without her
That FPS shot near the end was completely unnecessary, almost as much as the ones through the mask
Sentinel Prime brutally slays Ironhide but lets Optimus off with a warning

The movie was mostly enjoyable except for the gratuitous Carly body shots, and anti-climactic fight ending. Many other already mentioned problems too, but for me it sits between the first and third movies in terms of overall enjoyability.

5FDP

8th July 2011, 11:54 AM

In fact im watching it right now :D

Hey, me too ;) :D

Bartrim

8th July 2011, 12:02 PM

Hey, me too ;) :D

Wait a minute... How are you watching it while posting on this forum... Something fishy is going on here.

janda the red

8th July 2011, 01:01 PM

saw it last weekend.... it certainly wasn't shakespeare, but i enjoyed it nonetheless.

it did have a couple of face palm moments though... lol ( cant make a pizza without cheese! :p )

janda :)

rampagesss

8th July 2011, 02:11 PM

Gave in and just watched it, and must admit it was awesome! really enjoyed it easily the best of the 3 movies.

Love Lazerbeak, Megatron And basically everything!
Can't wait for the dvd release :D

Only downside i can see is that now that ive seen the movie i have the urge to buy the toys, even thought i promised my self i wouldn't :(
Maybe just get some leader class figures :D

SkyWarp91

9th July 2011, 04:34 PM

Just saw it again today for the 2nd time and I enjoyed it much more than the original screening. When watching it this time I had to keep reminding myself that I can't expect this movie to have a real deep storyline and characters, but instead to expect an action masterpiece. It's Bay's biggest action piece yet, and the level of destruction was just amazing - maybe enough to soften the scars of his bad editing.

shokwave2

9th July 2011, 05:48 PM

I really enjoyed this movie. Great action/fight sequences, great visual and sound effects. Just what i want in an action film. It could have been trimmed/shortened a bit but otherwise can't wait for it on Blu-Ray.

A few things i would change.

- Shockwave was way under-used IMO. His pet worm did more damage then him and the movie should have showed him slaying a few autobots and human to show he means business.

- More emotion needed in the final movie. I would have liked to see some more main characters getting knocked off. It would have left the audience wondering if this was gonna be a happy-ending movie. Just killing off Ironhide was not enough.

- Laserbeak........i didn't like him. Bay tried to make him comical as well as deadly. He looked like a cross between a vulture, a pteradactyl and ossie ostrich. I would of preferred if he didn't talk at all like Ravage, and was somehow a part of Soundwave. ie, built into Soundwave's chest or back, as Scorponok was to Blackout.

- Not everyone reads the comics to understand where half the characters from the last film have gone. Show Jolt/other Autobots getting killed by Shockwave/other decepticons in a flashback or at the start of the film.

Far from a perfect film, but a fun film.

Ode to a Grasshopper

9th July 2011, 08:23 PM

It was OK...not great, not terrible, not good, not bad. I'd give it 2 :rolleyes:s out of 5.

Pros
- Laserbeak was actually pretty cool. I hope we get a toy for him that turns into an actual something instead of the pseudo-hoverjet thing.
- The comic relief duo was surprisingly bearable. And actually did something useful.
- No Retard Twins.
- Shia was less annoying than usual.
- More robot screen-time, though it was still overly human-centric for my liking.
- The watch-scorpion-thingy was cool. I wants a Scout/Cyberverse-class toy.
- Rosie What's-her-name is remarkably watchable, making the fact she's really only there as eye candy rather more forgiveable.
- Sentinel Prime was actually really badass, and mostly fairly well characterised to boot.
- Soundwave was pretty badass. And tentacle-y.
- Nice use of existing toys' vehicle-modes in the NEST base. Not-Brawn looked awesome and I would have liked to see him as a TF. Same for Not-Skyhammer.
- The moon landing thing was a nice idea, and the guest appearances were pretty good. Bill O'Reilly FTW! Bay as the cameraman was pretty good too.
- Dutch had some good lines. The Russian bar scene was pretty cool.
- John Malkovich is awesome. Turturro is far more bearable than before.
- The black guy wasn't the first to die.
- My brother-in-law really liked it.

Cons
- It's basically a 80-90 minute no-brainer action movie - not necessarily a bad thing - stretched out into a 2 & 1/2 hour epic. While on paper it should be Epic, the pacing is really weak and makes watching the whole thing in a single sitting a trial of endurance. Not helped by having to wear 3D glasses when most of the scenes don't really make much effective use of it.
- USA! USA! USA! Get that illegal nuclear facility in that coincidentally Middle Eastern country Autobots! For FREEDOM!
- Sentinel Prime - stole the show, right up until "Optimus, NO!" just before his death. A more resigned or regretful ending after watching his beloved Cybertron destroyed due in part to his actions (and those of his predecessor) would have been, well, in character. As it was, the whole patriot/needs of the many bit was really undercut, and whoops, he was just a bad guy after all.
- While I'm on the topic, remember that bit in The Ultimate Doom where Optimus agonizes over whether to bring Cybertron to Earth over the Space Bridge, or keep Earth safe but destroy his home planet? Remember how he mentions it being his home and how he has friends there? How he's obviously really conflicted between his desire to protect Earth and his love for his homeworld? Yep?
Now, remember how Jazz is torn in half in the first Bay movie and after the battle's over Movie Optimus is all like, Jazz who? Oh well, them's the breaks, time heals all wounds and it's been like five minutes already. Guess which characterisation crops up here?
Yep. Not even a seconds indecision over dooming his own freaking planet to a fiery implodery doom, or a seconds mourning for his now-destroyed home world after the fact. Cybertron? Oh yeah, I think I was created and raised and spent almost my whole millions-of-years-long existence there once or something. Whatever happened to that place anyway?
But then, he does make a big deal about how Earth is his home and the humans are totally cool, they've only tried kicking us off the planet twice over the past 3 years and totally lied to us for years on end about our greatest leader evar and some tech that could supposedly save our planet being on their moon after all, so maybe that's it. Hey, check out this sweet sunset, isn't this planet just so peaceful? Except for all those illegal nuclear plants anyway...
- Hey, I haven't seen Ironhide lately, I hope he didn't get killed by my mentor or anything. If anyone sees my old friend tell him I said hi. Huh? Que who?
- Carly - great ass, glimmers of what could be spunky character in the vein of her namesake, and even possible acting ability from Rosie HW, but in the end relegated to just great ass.
- On a related note, Mikaela/Megan Fox's absence doesn't get much attention or explanation. Oops, they broke up, here's a new girlfriend, c'est la vie. After the big deal made over Sam and Mikaela's relationship in the first two it's kind of, well, cheap.
- Shia is still whiny and annoying.
- Starscream's death - terrible, pointless, unnecessary. From cries of 'It's Starscream!' from the Autobots in the first movie to "Ow, my eye, I'll hop around like a headless chicken while some human sticks a bomb in my head" in DotM. Will Animated Starscream please come and tell this guy what to do when some flightless hero-type attaches himself to you with a line?
- Shockwave - could have been awesome, was just a heavy grunt with a pet sandworm. Didn't kill anyone, had barely any dialogue besides incoherently roaring (presumbaly logical incoherent roaring), didn't transform and in the end got taken down pretty easily by OP for such a purported scary big bad. Again, Animated and the old-school G1 comics do this character far more justice.
- I'm-a Dino, I'm-a gonna win. Listen-a my funny accent, 'cos that's-a all I got. Did-a you know I can turn invisible? No? Neither did I, which is why-a I didn't!
- Hey guys, you know the way we're all being attacked by a Decepticon and/or giant drill-monster-tentacle-thing in this precariously tilting skyscraper? You remember those awesome handheld human pistol-sized space-weapons and climbing gloves that Autobot scientist guy gave us a few minutes ago? Let's not use them and just jump out of this window and slide down this plate glass and shoot out the windows below us instead, it'll look way more dramatic and chances are only one or two of us will fall to our doom.
- After the Autobots being exiled and Cybertron half-summoned and then destroyed, the ending is really abrupt. It feels like the writers just got bored and decided to finish up and go home - Optimus Prime kills them all: The End. What makes this especially bad is it tries to do way too much (Moon landing, Sentinel's Faustian pact, Earth under Decepticon control, exiled Autobots, Shockwave is scary, oh and here's Cybertron brought to Earth), when a simpler and cleaner plot with more attention paid to character development and plot resolution would have served far better.

Despite the long list of Cons VS Pros, it's actually an OK action flick, or at least would be if it wasn't SO DAMN LONG.

loophole

9th July 2011, 10:37 PM

GoktimusPrime

10th July 2011, 09:38 PM

overall i think im just going to wipe the 2nd and 3rd movies from my mind and just keep with the first. When i have kids i wont even tell them there is a 2nd and 3rd movie.
Highlander'd! :p

Note: I'm not a fan of Highlander and don't know much about the franchise (other than the fact that the voice actor for BW Inferno and BM Thrust was in the TV series) -- but I've met a lot of fans who deny the existence of the sequels (especially Highlander 2) ;)

Also, for those who've noticed the plethora of Star Trek/Spock references in DotM, I think there may have been at least one more semi-reference that didn't make the final cut. In #2 of the comic adaptation, Sentinel Prime says to Optimus Prime, "You are - and always have been - the bravest warrior I have ever known."; now is it just me, or does this seem to be a paraphrase of Spock's line "I have been and always shall be, your friend."

It's a not a direct quote, but it seems to carry the same spirit in a more subtle way. <insert.comment.about.Michael.Bay.and.subtlety> :p

loophole

10th July 2011, 10:25 PM

Highlander'd! :p

Note: I'm not a fan of Highlander and don't know much about the franchise (other than the fact that the voice actor for BW Inferno and BM Thrust was in the TV series) -- but I've met a lot of fans who deny the existence of the sequels (especially Highlander 2) ;)

Also, for those who've noticed the plethora of Star Trek/Spock references in DotM, I think there may have been at least one more semi-reference that didn't make the final cut. In #2 of the comic adaptation, Sentinel Prime says to Optimus Prime, "You are - and always have been - the bravest warrior I have ever known."; now is it just me, or does this seem to be a paraphrase of Spock's line "I have been and always shall be, your friend."

It's a not a direct quote, but it seems to carry the same spirit in a more subtle way. <insert.comment.about.Michael.Bay.and.subtlety> :p

they loved there spock references didnt they ;)

Doubledealer

11th July 2011, 12:30 AM

okay i just saw it for the 2nd time in 3D and found really really really really boring, almost felt like walking out and as me and my brother were walking out he thought about doing the same thing.
Think i might of actually enjoy the ROTF more but overall i think im just going to wipe the 2nd and 3rd movies from my mind and just keep with the first. When i have kids i wont even tell them there is a 2nd and 3rd movie.
Dont get me wrong there were some cool bits but not enough.

Props for seeing it a second time, I was clawing at the chair in front of me begging for it to end and that was just the first time (the guy that was sitting there is bald now).

I certainly think RotF is a much better film compared to DotM. After a non-stop barrage of action in the last 60+ minutes of his latest brain cell eliminator, not one scene could come close to the far more focused RotF action scenes with Ravage infiltrating the military base, the forest battle, the chase and eventual killing of Sideways, the discovery of Demolishor (must mention: the bass from those concrete pylons as they hit the ground is ****ing awesome if you've got a nice sub). RotF got boring when they reached the desert but before that it was actually pretty entertaining and some of the action was inspiring stuff. There was more humour in RotF too, sure it didn't have Bobby B and the Devastator 'balls' were pathetic but there were a few chuckles in there that I found were completely missing from "I'm too serious for my own good" DotM. Brains and Wheelie were good though I'll give them that.

While I'm having another rant, not sure if anyone's touched on this yet but did the music also really grate on anyone else's nerves?? That militaristic try hard epic excuse for sine waves totally killed any possibility of mood building, atmosphere, tension...Anything!!

griffin

11th July 2011, 12:52 AM

The movie must be doing well though, despite what some are saying about it. Its had two weekends, almost two weeks, and I was surprised to see both daytime sessions at the Sydney IMAX were sold out before the first session had even started.
With TF2 I just showed up and bought a ticket on the day (and the theatre was half empty - TF1 was even emptier), but lucky I had a look at the pre-booking page on Wednesday when I planned my day-trip... or else I would have shown up to the theatre to find I wouldn't be seeing the movie. I wasn't planning to pre-book, but in checking to make sure the session was happening (I wasn't going to book a flight until I was sure a session was on that day), I had to go through the booking process... which led me to a seating chart that was already over half filled. I couldn't believe it - four days out, and it was one of three sessions on the second weekend. After the last two movies on IMAX, I never thought it would still be this popular after two weeks.

And I was surprised it was in 3D as well... which I am find that the eyes seem to adapt to it within an hour or so, in that it doesn't look as 'spectacularly' 3D as it does at the start of the movie when you first put on the glasses.

(I ended up being seated next to a young kid who musta never been to an IMAX theatre before, because when he sat down, he was looking all around and then took several photos of the screen and theatre on his phone)

One error I half noticed before, but looked for it this time - when the parent first arrive to see Sam, they have their car parked on the road behind their bus, but later when they offer to take him to his interviews, it's up on a trailer attached to the bus (which would make more sense, but someone musta forgotten the trailer in the earlier shots, or it wouldn't fit on that part of the street, or something).

And Simmons saying that there are only 9 Autobots is an error, as he would know that Wheelie is an Autobot, and in the on-screen Movie universe, Brains would be an Autobot because there was no suggestion he was ever anything else (it was only in the comic written around the movie script, that had him as a Decepticon). That gives us Optimus, Bumblebee, Ratchet, Sideswipe, Wheeljack/Q, Mirage/Dino, Topspin, Roadbuster, Leadfoot (which were never named in the movie), Brains and Wheelie... which gives us 11 Autobots that boarded the Xanthium.

And I still don't get the dialogue between Megatron and Sentinel just before the spacebridge is activated in Chicago. Megatron tells Sentinel that soon they will be able to restore Cybertron together (as equal partners), but then Sentinel tears off part of his head in anger as if Megatron said that Sentinel was working for him or beneath him. I think the dialogue and animation of that scene was done in two parts - Megatron's line and then Sentinel's hostile response - with one being done after a script change, resulting in a scene that didn't make any sense.

And does anyone feel that some parts of the movie have been cropped, compared to the trailers? Like in the final battle scene when Optimus flies in and starts carving up the Decepticons before killing Shockwave... in the Trailer, the shot isn't as close up, in that you can see the whole Decepticons being sliced up. In the movie you don't see their heads and legs... it's the type of shot used to hide animation flaws or overlay flaws, but we'd seen the whole picture on the Trailer, so why the zoomed-in edit I wonder.

That's four times for me now... and I might see it again, but probably only if someone else wanted to see it.

Demonac

11th July 2011, 01:22 AM

If you want to make a trip to Melbourne, you might convince me to go and see it with you.
But it has to be at the Astor on the 29th (playing with Thor). :P

griffin

11th July 2011, 01:13 PM

You pay for my trip and I'll be there. :p

Sky Shadow

11th July 2011, 11:55 PM

My thoughts after 'finally' seeing the film.

It's a film we had to see. But in many ways, Dark Of The Moon was a worse movie than Revenge Of The Fallen. At least ROTF allowed me to suspend disbelief while I was watching it, and then my brain only went "hold on... that made no sense!" after I left the theatre. This time my brain was critical of the film in realtime.

The opening minutes are great. Then it starts to fall down at two early points. One is when the Autobots go to the Middle East in order to massacre some humans. The second is when some cheesy music kicks in, we open on a sundrenched bedroom loft and the film appears to turn into an ad for lady products. Or something. Other earlyish cringeworthy moments included Jerry calling Sam a 'gaylord'. Nice.

Sentinel Prime is a jerk. Which is good, because that's what Sentinel Primes should be. On the other hand, Optimus Prime is the least likeable protagonist from any film I have seen in living memory. This is not so good. He planned to pretend to be sent back into space to teach the humans a lesson. About being brutally killed. And once again, Prime seems to have the magic-melee-weapons-of-gruesome-death. So much so that the writers had to come up with ways to keep him out of action in the movie. Like having the idiot entangle himself in some cables for half an hour and waste literally half the Autobot forces on getting him untied. And then, the climactic battle between Optimus Prime and Megatron lasts for... about five seconds. This is a film that dedicated a good twenty minutes to humans and furniture sliding back and forth inside and outside a building but had a boss battle that lasted the duration of one slice. Poor Megatron. He had an awesome master plan and a poncho and chains and sits around in the Lincoln memorial and on Trump Tower. And yet... one slice. And then when it's time for Prime to offer mercy to Sentinel or chastise him for killing Ironhide, what does he do? He blows off his head with Megatron's shotgun.

The film was not all bad. The bit on Cybertron, the historic scenes and the blimps and ships flying around Chicago were fantastic. Many of Sam's and Dutch's lines were laugh-out-loud funny (which is possibly due as much to Shia and Alan's delivery as to the quality of the dialogue.) I liked the way that the humans finally worked out how to fight the Transformers convincingly - shoot Decepticons in the eyes with snipers and use your small stature to run in and put bombs on their feet. I also loved the appearances of recognisable toy accessories � Sentinel Prime's sword and shield, Cyberverse Ratchet's Lunar Crawler/Roller, heck Cyberverse Starscream's Orbital Assault Carrier was a more major player in the film than half the Autobots. Shockwave and his massive phallus, Laserbeak, Roadbuster and Leadfoot were great new robotic additions to the cast. And from my perspective, Wheelie was the most likeable robot character in the film. This is possibly not a good thing.

Also, why were there lots of Decepticons buried on the moon? Did they actually agree to being buried on the moon? For how long? I asked my wife, to see if I'd just missed something.

MRS SHADOW: "Didn't they crash there?"

ME: "Um... I don't think so. Why would so many Decepticons have been on the Ark? And if so, how did they all come back to life without the matrix?"

MRS SHADOW: "...I think that maybe there were a lot of issues with the film."

I think maybe she's right.

Sleeve

12th July 2011, 10:13 AM

I saw it again yesterday and picked up on something I missed (apologies if it's already been posted but I couldn't see it after skimming 25 pages of posts).

When Wheelie first comes into the lounge room, he jumps onto the couch and ask Brains how he's doing. Wheelie then looks at the TV, sees 'Star Trek' and says "Oh shit, I've seen this one. This is the one where Spock goes nuts."

Nice bit of foreshadowing. :)

1AZRAEL1

12th July 2011, 10:26 AM

I never even thought of that, well spotted.

griffin

12th July 2011, 11:29 AM

@ Sky Shadow's review.

The Decepticon army hidden on the moon is the big plot hole in this movie, in that it is explained in an indirect way, but you kinda need to work it out (Soundwave had them hidden there since the early 60s, and had to make sure the Humans were prevented from seeing them after 4 moon landings). That on its own would have made sense, but when you take into account the first two movies, and how the search for the Matrix coulda been centuries later... it didn't make sense to hide them there, on the off-chance that the Matrix would have been found any time soon. It would have made more sense to use that 'man power' to invade earth in that decade (the 60s) and find the matrix themselves. Then they could continue their plan to reanimate Sentinel and activate the Spacebridge technology.

Also, if the knowledge of the Ark was Sector 7 director clearance only, then you'd think that would be a plot problem with the first movie, as Banachek appeared to be the director of S7... who would have known about this to mention it.
So basically, this third movie clashes with the history of the first two... which was bound to happen when you keep doing 'flashback' type plots that rely on events that occurred before an earlier movie.

As for the Autobots attacking a Middle Eastern location at the start - in the comic it was better explained that they were hunting down Cybertronian Technology that was ending up in the wrong hands... as a result of them revealing themselves to the world in the second movie. And I think that was an explanation by the Comic writer to make sense of Bay's movie script, because the voice-over dialogue is recorded in the last few weeks of production, and I don't see any reason why that would have been changed (it just makes America look bad, by making it seem like an American ally was invading other nations on covet ops - just see how it made them look invading Pakistan without authorisation, to kill Osama).

It also felt like the character of Carly's boss was all over the place. At one time he says that he is stuck with working for the Decepticons (as his father's legacy) so doesn't have much of a choice (like being coerced). Another time he seems like a willing ally, thinking that he will be rewarded while the rest of the humans are enslaved. And then he seems fearful of them when they are destroying Chicago, accepting that he may be killed off as well... but when given the opportunity at the end of the movie to save earth (and himself), he instead goes and turns on the spacebridge pillar as if he still had a hope of being rewarded by the aliens whom he knows (and helped) kill humans.

I didn't get all the lunar rovers on the moon when the Autobots went to get Sentinel. Why were they there? The Autobots wouldn't need them... and if they were Autobot probing rovers, they didn't do a good job of sensing the massive Decepticon Army just metres away. And the entire Apollo landing module shouldn't have been there either. It mighta looked visually pretty to Bay to have it there, CG-animated in all its glory, but the top half of those things fly back up to the Command/Service Module that remains in orbit around the moon, and jettisoned to either crash back on the moon somewhere or left floating in space. The only thing that should have been there in that scene is the 'Descent Stage' (the golden bottom half) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Lunar_Module#Lunar_Modules_produced).
For those interested in seeing just how much junk there is now on the moon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_man-made_objects_on_the_Moon).
And a map showing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moon_landing_map.jpg) where the Apollo missions landed, including Apollo 11 (which is where the Ark crashed)

There was so much product placement in this movie, it almost felt like every logo was there for a reason, rather than just being a random product grabbed by the props department.

Sky Shadow

12th July 2011, 01:22 PM

jimoinj

12th July 2011, 06:44 PM

I'd like to add my voice of dissent to the chorus of approval for this movie.

I watched it, with expectations low from ROF. Honestly, I expected almost nothing. And I was still disappointed.

Most of the problems from that movie remain. This time the movie is over-long, to boot. Apart from Optimus Prime, Sentinel Prime and Megatron, for the robots there was barely any characterisation. I could hardly recognise one robot from the other. Particularly when they're always running around, doing acrobatics and falling to pieces. The G1 cartoon is much derided for childishness and cliches, yet it did a far better job at characterisation than this mush. It's like the movie was only aimed at being very very fast and full of shooting and running. Without bothering with anything else, other than undergraduate jokes and smutty shots of the latest sex object in the film.

It seems the maker of the film doesn't understand that action and shooting doesn't make a good film. It needs a good story and good dialogue and interaction to make people get involved in it and care. I'm afraid this one failed utterly. I barely could tell who was getting destroyed let alone care about it.

The inclusion of the humans, trying to get more audience involvement I suppose, didn't work for me. It just seemed so unrealistic that they even lasted a second against the robots, particularly Sam when he was being thrown around on that cord by Starscream. And Megatron failing to kill his girlfriend like an ant, as he should have. It would have been better if as per G1 it was mostly focusing on the robots and leaving humans as cannon fodder!

Another gripe, I don't see the reason to give Transformers machine guns. They are aliens. What chance they would use projectile weapons as similar to ours as that? They are far advanced, and should be using lasers.

SPOILER

I did enjoy that Spock played Sentinel Prime, and his line 'the needs of the many must outweigh the needs of the few'. Classic nod to Star Trek.

GoktimusPrime

12th July 2011, 08:16 PM

Just looking at the film alone, my understanding of the NEST/Autobot attack on in the Middle East was, from the humans' POV, to combat threats to humanity - like illegal production of nuclear weapons. But the Autobot's actual agenda was to use this as an excuse to roam the globe and keep searching for the Decepticons - as Optimus explained it, "our true enemies' return." And we saw how Lennox was covertly helping to obtain information which led Optimus and a team of NEST operatives to Chernobyl.

Most of the problems from that movie remain. This time the movie is over-long, to boot. Apart from Optimus Prime, Sentinel Prime and Megatron, for the robots there was barely any characterisation. I could hardly recognise one robot from the other. Particularly when they're always running around, doing acrobatics and falling to pieces. The G1 cartoon is much derided for childishness and cliches, yet it did a far better job at characterisation than this mush. It's like the movie was only aimed at being very very fast and full of shooting and running.
Yeah, on the whole I'd agree with this. The G1 cartoon really didn't do much for characterisation - this was better done in the G1 comics. The G1 cartoon essentially created caricatures rather than characters -- but even shallow caricatures are better than hordes of anonymous robots! At least we knew the names of all the Transformers who appeared in the G1 cartoon.

There is a select number of Transformers who have had characterisation - in DotM we notably saw characterisation in Sentinel Prime. But there are heaps more that didn't. And while a movie will never have time to flesh out every character that appears on screen, it should continue to develop a select cast of characters.

Expanded universe stuff like the comics should then be fleshing out on the other characters that the films didn't get time to shed enough light on (e.g. Boba Fett - a pretty minor player in the Star Wars films yet a legend in SW expanded universe), and not patching up continuity holes and errors.

Without bothering with anything else, other than undergraduate jokes and smutty shots of the latest sex object in the film.
I thought that this was toned down a lot more in this movie compared to previous ones. I found that the norti jokes were either:
+ brief and then allowed the story to move on instead of lingering, or...
+ where it lingered it was at least contributing to the story. e.g. the toilet scene with Jerry and Sam -- okay, it's silly toilet humour and stuff, but at least it was part of the plot (i.e. it allowed Jerry to covertly give Sam information without drawing attention from Laserbeak (and we saw what Laserbeak thought about that).

It seems the maker of the film doesn't understand that action and shooting doesn't make a good film. It needs a good story and good dialogue and interaction to make people get involved in it and care. I'm afraid this one failed utterly. I barely could tell who was getting destroyed let alone care about it.
Effects are merely a story-telling tool. At the end of the day, you still need to be telling a good story. And the audience needs to make an emotional investment in the characters in order to care about them. As you said, the audience actually needs to give a hoot about who lives and dies.

The first movie did a decent job of this with Bumblebee. So much so that I continued to care about him in this movie too - like when Soundwave was about to execute Bumblebee, that was a pretty tense scene. I've spoken to others people - including non TF-fans, who thought that was a really edge of your seat tense scene - and it's only because the audience cares for Bumblebee. Quejack's execution, as brutal as it was, didn't have the same impact as when we thought Bumblebee was gonna get killed - or even when Ironhide bought it. How many of us watched Ironhide rust away and thought, "Nooo!" Ironhide may not have been the best developed character, but at least he had some characterisation - especially if you found his death more upsetting than Que's.

How many of us felt relieved when Que died? :p

The inclusion of the humans, trying to get more audience involvement I suppose, didn't work for me. It just seemed so unrealistic that they even lasted a second against the robots, particularly Sam when he was being thrown around on that cord by Starscream.
I dunno... one thing I've liked about the film franchise is that they don't treat the Transformers like Gods - as they often are in other mediums where human technology seems completely ineffectual against Cybertronians. While the Transformers are super robots, they aren't indestructible - and while humans are physically frail, human technology isn't something to be laughed at either. And the first movie did go into explaining how some of their weapons could harm Transformers (i.e. high heat rounds). And it would make sense that after years of combating Decepticons, NEST - an organisation purpose-made to combat Decepticons - would equip themselves with weapons that would harm Decepticons. And furthermore, their training would also reflect that. I like how DotM showed that scene where Bumblebee was training with NEST operatives where they talked about how to take out a Decepticon - and as Sky Shadow mentioned before, we see the humans using new tactics like taking advantage of their smaller size to get in close and plant explosives.

And this tactic isn't entirely new either - in martial arts it's common for fighters with shorter limbs to use in-close tactics whereas those with longer limbs use longer range "telescoping" strikes.
e.g.
A short-range throw used from Japanese Judo (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/050907-M-7747B-002-Judo.jpg)
A long-range telescoping kick from an African martial art (http://superiormartialarts.com/images13/51099.jpg)

And Megatron failing to kill his girlfriend like an ant, as he should have. It would have been better if as per G1 it was mostly focusing on the robots and leaving humans as cannon fodder!
Perhaps he had enough momentary respect for her at that moment so that he decided to spare her miserable life. That was the feeling I got when he was about to crush her, but then balked.