The Random Transformers Thoughts Thread

[griffin]

Meh. Doesn't have the same jingle as 'May the 4th be with you' for Star Wars.

Whenever I hear that phrase, it just sounds forced and corny... and it's as if the classic phrase is being said with a lisp.

[GoktimusPrime]

"I have a gweat fwiend in Wome called Biggus..."

[FatalityPitt]

Replying to this post from this thread (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=558736#post558736):



Also... did Malaysia get the gold-carded/boxed Classic reissues? Cos AFAIK they were exclusive to Europe, Australia and New Zealand. I have zero knowledge about what toys were released in Malaysia but welcome any knew information. :D

I spent most of my childhood in Malaysia, and I only became interested in Transformers around 1990-91 (I can't remember exactly, I was about 4 or 5).

My memory is a bit foggy, but back then, the store shelves in KL were loaded with G1 Headmasters (originally released in 1987), and shortly after; the Powermasters and Jr Headmasters started showing up. Some might think this is probably left-over stock from the late 1980s, but the Headmasters were still being advertised on TV, and the Headmasters anime was aired on RTM TV1.

Even though we had the 1987-88 toys, we didn't get the whole line. I couldn't find any of the Targetmasters in any store (I remember because I wanted Pointblank but could never find him or the other Targetmasters. I also never knew what G1 Hot Rod/Blurr/Scourge looked like until I was an adult).

We didn't get any of the gold-carded/boxed G1 reissues in Malaysia/Singapore. However, after the whole Headmaster crazed died down, some gold-packaged Pretenders showed up. We got Jazz, Bumblebee, Starscream and the carded Pretenders like Octopunch, Bludgeon, Stranglehold, Longtooth, etc (http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/ii608/kremziek/G1-Sealed-Pretenders_1332442168_zps7196ae8a.jpg); but none of the fancy ones like Thunderwing or Vroom (well, I never saw them).

Of course, alongside the Headmasters/Powermasters/Pretenders, we got some Action Masters and Micromasters (they weren't so popular).

I know, the above sounds like the description of an alternate reality; and it drives me nuts that there's no documentation on the internet about what was available in 1990s Malaysia-Singapore, combined with the knowledge that the first Transformers I ever got officially came out in 1987, even though I got them in the 1990s.

If anyone lived in Malaysia/Singapore in the 1990s and was a Transformers fan back then, please feel free to back me up or correct me.

To remind myself that I didn't get high from inhaling carbon monoxide and hallucinated the whole thing; I have with me the very first Transformers that I ever got (a photo below that I just took for the sake of this post).

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg561/TheTransformerPitt/IMG_20170510_205043_zps3r31pbd9.jpg?t=1494331745

The first Transformer(s) my parents bought me were Pounce and Wingspan, then Highbrow several weeks later. Sadly, Wingspan is no longer with me. These were bought from a department store called Jusco (called "Aeon" nowadays) in the early 1990s.

[GoktimusPrime]

Thanks for sharing that story, it was a really interesting read. :)

[Megatran]

"I will not have my fwiends widiculed by your common soldiewy..."

[FatalityPitt]

Thanks for sharing that story, it was a really interesting read. :)

No worries, always a pleasure to share :)

But yeah, if someone can confirm or share what was on shelves in Malaysia-Singa circa-1990; I'll be able to sleep better tonight. Surely I can't be the only one who bought stuff from there during that period.

[GoktimusPrime]

I was holidaying in Kuala Lumpur in 1992 and saw a lone 1987 Headmaster sitting on a store shelf. It was the only TF that I found on that trip. :(

[Jetfire in the sky]

Replying to this post from this thread (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=558736#post558736):



I spent most of my childhood in Malaysia, and I only became interested in Transformers around 1990-91 (I can't remember exactly, I was about 4 or 5).

My memory is a bit foggy, but back then, the store shelves in KL were loaded with G1 Headmasters (originally released in 1987), and shortly after; the Powermasters and Jr Headmasters started showing up. Some might think this is probably left-over stock from the late 1980s, but the Headmasters were still being advertised on TV, and the Headmasters anime was aired on RTM TV1.

Even though we had the 1987-88 toys, we didn't get the whole line. I couldn't find any of the Targetmasters in any store (I remember because I wanted Pointblank but could never find him or the other Targetmasters. I also never knew what G1 Hot Rod/Blurr/Scourge looked like until I was an adult).


.

Your memory serves you well and it's great to get a first hand history like that.

The figures that would have been released were the legitimate Chinese G1 reissues, which were also released in Australia in limited numbers and figures, but Asia would have had way more.

Check out the links for more info.
http://fredsworkshop.com/vchina.html

http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/15

[FatalityPitt]

I was holidaying in Kuala Lumpur in 1992 and saw a lone 1987 Headmaster sitting on a store shelf. It was the only TF that I found on that trip. :(

Yeah, shelves were pretty bare back in 1992. Most toy stores had a few shelf-worn Micromasters and Pretenders that no one wanted, and that was it. The Pretenders were really unpopular, and Stranglehold and Longtooth were the biggest shelf-warmers. The Transformer dry-spell ended when G2 stuff started popping up in 1993-94.



The figures that would have been released were the legitimate Chinese G1 reissues, which were also released in Australia in limited numbers and figures, but Asia would have had way more.

Check out the links for more info.
http://fredsworkshop.com/vchina.html

http://highendtfs.com/?q=node/15

Thanks for the links. I can now confirm that the Transformers I got were in fact Chinese reissues. The most telling is Pounce and Wingspan. I've seen photos of the original Pounce and Wingspans online, and they all had an extra rub-sticker on their chests that indicated whether they turned into Eagles or Jaguars. My copy of those toys didn't have those stickers. Instead, mine only had regular Decepticon logos, similar to the ones described in that guide you sent me.

Also, I pulled out my copy of Brainstorm (as shown in the photo) - just a random toy from that era, and noticed that the country on the copyright stamp got blocked out, similar to that of the Seaspray shown in the guide.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg561/TheTransformerPitt/IMG_20170511_202715_zps0czj3u2h.jpg?t=1494413918

I apologise for the poor quality of the photo. I only have a mobile phone camera, and it's not a very good one. But you can see there is a noticeable outdentation where the origin country normally should be.

[griffin]

Mine took 2 weeks from payment to shipping notice as well... and even though they had a reason (one item was lost and they had to order more in), they didn't tell me about the delay until after the order was shipped... something that they should have told me as soon as they knew that they had a problem and had to hold my order until they could get more stock in.

I think my (March 31st) Toybento order got lost in the mail... :(

I was told it was posted April 18th (almost 4 weeks ago), and since that time I have had three items arrive from America that were shipped since that date.
Singapore is usually about as quick as HK, so it should have been here about two weeks ago.

These darn Cyber Battalion toys are like my white whale - not being able to find them in HK, finding only a couple of them in America (at BotCon, but very expensive), and now losing affordable ones in the mail. I think I may just avoid this small series of toys...

(the ironic thing is that they told me when the order was being sent, that it was delayed because one toy got lost on its way to them... so it only makes sense the the rest of the toys followed its lead and got lost on their way to me as well :p )

[Jetfire in the sky]

Thanks for the links. I can now confirm that the Transformers I got were in fact Chinese reissues. The most telling is Pounce and Wingspan. I've seen photos of the original Pounce and Wingspans online, and they all had an extra rub-sticker on their chests that indicated whether they turned into Eagles or Jaguars. My copy of those toys didn't have those stickers. Instead, mine only had regular Decepticon logos, similar to the ones described in that guide you sent me.


Glad I could help, it's so good that you have your figures from back in the day :)

[FatalityPitt]

Yeah, thanks again. :)

Unfortunately I've had some casualties back in the day; figures going missing or broken :(. But for the ones that have survived to this day, they're just too precious to get rid of.

[GoktimusPrime]

Objectively speaking, Transformers Prime arguably has the best theme music out of all TF series. The original G1 theme was really nothing more than a toy advert jingle and the Beast Wars theme was basically "primal beats" with growls (as much as I love BW I've never been a huge fan of the theme music). This isn't to say that other themes are bad per se, the Masterforce and Victory themes are quite dear to me, as is the KISS Play theme (not a fan of the fiction, but they have nice music :)); as are the Car Robot (RIP Wada Koji), Micron Legend, Super Link and Galaxy Force opening and closing songs. But of course these are pop ballads which are nice, but there's just something about orchestral music that is more emotive and timeless. The 80s rock music from TFTM that we all love arguably sounds dated today - when I show it to my students they just laugh at it. But good orchestral music never goes out of style; John Williams is a good example of this. And despite what you think about Bayformers, the live action movies gave us some good scores too, such as the epic "Arrival of the Autobots" score.

One thing that disappoints me with RiD is how they reverted back to the toy jingle G1 lyrics and tune, only minimalised (chorus removed), and the digitalisation of the voice just makes it sound tacky IMO. Not a fan of the RiD theme at all.

[griffin]

Hopefully this is just a toy damaged at the factory and not the result of a kid trying to take a souvenir home by breaking off the head of a Knight Armor Optimus...

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/blog/d546.jpg

[GoktimusPrime]

A few weeks ago I saw a TR Wheelie that had been opened with ONE leg stolen. Really? :confused:

[BruiseLee]

A few weeks ago I saw a TR Wheelie that had been opened with ONE leg stolen. Really? :confused:

Must have been hopping mad!

[GoktimusPrime]

Must have been hopping mad!
Severly so.

[Sinnertwin]

A few weeks ago I saw a TR Wheelie that had been opened with ONE leg stolen. Really? :confused:

I'm inclined to believe that someone tried to steal him but botched it when they were pulling him out & ended up with a leg for their trouble.
Enough to leave anybody feeling stumped.

[FatalityPitt]

Just looking at stock photography of the Thunderwing Titanmaster (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:TitansReturn_TitanMaster_Thunderwing.jpg) from the Seige of Cybertron set. The Titanmaster's deco is a good/faithful homage to the inner robot of the G1 Pretender. (http://www.tfu.info/1989/Decepticon/Thunderwing/thunderwing.htm)

[GoktimusPrime]

Enough to leave anybody feeling stumped.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/golfclap_zpsodllskpg.gif

[GoktimusPrime]

I'd like to see "Militant Monoform Movement" translated in as many languages as we can, with the translated initials too.

e.g.: Japanese = 過激派単形運動 (Kagekiha Tankei Undou) = KTU

[GoktimusPrime]

Suggested Chinese translation from a friend: 激進分子單形運動

[philby]

welease wodga!

[GoktimusPrime]

German: Militanten Einzelne Form Bewegung

[Paulbot]

Listening to a podcast today and they pointed out one of those "how it should have ended" joke moments for the first Transformers movie: the Decepticons could have just bought the glasses in the eBay auction. But then it made me think about the actual plot of the movie and that's something that's not a great idea.

[BruiseLee]

Listening to a podcast today and they pointed out one of those "how it should have ended" joke moments for the first Transformers movie: the Decepticons could have just bought the glasses in the eBay auction. But then it made me think about the actual plot of the movie and that's something that's not a great idea.

Be prepared to see eBay sponsorship in TLK...

[GoktimusPrime]

You are locked in a dungeon and the last Transformer that you played with is now coming for you. Who's coming?

For me: 2013 Generations Stealth Bomber Megatron, so I'm screwed.

[CHILENO20]

You are locked in a dungeon and the last Transformer that you played with is now coming for you. Who's coming?

For me: 2013 Generations Stealth Bomber Megatron, so I'm screwed.

Making a Skyjack out of a CW Airraid. Sooooo, which one is coming for me?????:confused::confused::confused:

[Amalgamous]

H.A. Bumblebee, I reckon we'll be off to pick up Mikaela, if we can avoid all the explosions:eek:

[FatalityPitt]

I'd like to see "Militant Monoform Movement" translated in as many languages as we can, with the translated initials too.

e.g.: Japanese = 過激派単形運動 (Kagekiha Tankei Undou) = KTU

Malay: Gerakan Uniform Tenterakan (GUT)


You are locked in a dungeon and the last Transformer that you played with is now coming for you. Who's coming?

For me: 2013 Generations Stealth Bomber Megatron, so I'm screwed.

Combiner Wars Rodimus. Thankfully, he's Legends-sized.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

You are locked in a dungeon and the last Transformer that you played with is now coming for you. Who's coming?

For me: 2013 Generations Stealth Bomber Megatron, so I'm screwed.

Legends Mindwipe's headmaster figure. He should be human sized, I better go find me some lead piping for the biffo.

I was checking out the shops of Kobe and saw that TAV (RID) figures were discounted to make way for movie figures. They had a few movie figs on the shelves and a bunch of one step toys, which had been wrapped in bags to keep the toy clean.

It made me wonder if TT is doing the wrapping, or the store itself. They also had a sign up stating hey'd only sell one toy per customer. No doubles buying lads.

All I see is TAV and Movie figures. Legends toys are rarer than hen's teeth, it's bloody annoying!

[Lint]

So today is my 1yo's birthday. He's been staring longingly at the Transformers Crossovers Millenium Falcon in it's glass cabinet ever since he's been able to climb up onto the couch to look at it. Today I took it out of the cabinet and let him play with it.

I get a little cocky and decide to blow his mind by transforming the two halfs of the Falcon into Han and Chewie. Don't get three steps into Chewie before I break both his GPS prone arms. Luckily his arms don't need to be integral in order to lock back into alt mode :p

[Sinnertwin]

You are locked in a dungeon and the last Transformer that you played with is now coming for you. Who's coming?

For me: 2013 Generations Stealth Bomber Megatron, so I'm screwed.

G1 Optimus Prime.
Aha! I'm safe. Except for the incessant dying on his part -which no doubt he'll find a way to do in a locked dungeon- I'm pretty much set.

[Paulbot]

It seems that the Flip Racers greatest enemy is gravity...

http://i.imgur.com/i7coJD8l.jpg http://i.imgur.com/6u05sGdl.jpg

[FatalityPitt]

Despite being a shelf-warmer (at least in my side of town), TR Breakaway is a "rare" figure.

TR Breakaway was short-packed in wave 3 (1 unit per case of 8), which is understandable since he was a repaint. Non-completist collectors would probably only buy the first or best version of the mold and ignore the repaint. Similarly, Quake and Krok, who are also repaints; were also short-packed (1 of each in a case of 8). However, unlike Breakaway, Quake and Krok have been included in revision wave where they are no longer short-packed (2 of each per case).

To put it elegantly, TR Breakaway was short-packed in wave 3 and hasn't appeared in any other wave, which makes him the rarest figure in Titans Return at this moment.

I wouldn't recommend buying a figure just because of it's rarity, and you should only buy it if you like the toy (or the character it represents). Even a rare toy can be a bad one that nobody wants.

Personally, I don't think TR Breakaway is a bad toy. The mold design and transformation is solid, and the choice of palette is decent. The most glaring problem with it is that it has a very incomplete look about it. As if Hasbro originally intended for more paint applications but had to excluded some because of budget constraints.

This leads me the speculate that if they do re-release the figure in a revision wave, there will probably be running changes to the figure where there will be more paint apps (depending on Hasbro's financial performance). It'd be a similar story to the RTS Legends Starscream figure released in 2010. Of course, this is a very big IF.

[GoktimusPrime]

Breakaway is common as chips around my area.


Personally, I don't think TR Breakaway is a bad toy. The mold design and transformation is solid, and the choice of palette is decent. The most glaring problem with it is that it has a very incomplete look about it. As if Hasbro originally intended for more paint applications but had to excluded some because of budget constraints.
As I mentioned in my review (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=23706), the toy only needs blue hands and/or forearms and it would make a huge difference.

[Sinnertwin]

While you're right from an availability point of view, the fact he isn't a desirable figures does take away from his rareness factor.
But, yes, from a figure per case point of view, he would be the rarest.

[griffin]

In Hasbro's eyes, and Retailers who don't notice or care about characters, Breakaway was the toy in wave 3 that wasn't a new mould, so when it comes to stores who still have some wave 2 toys on the pegs, they don't want to risk having a majority of the stock being the one mould (Chromedome and Getaway).
That's why most times a redeco comes along a wave after the original, it is short-packed.
It could also be why they are trying to produce more toys that have remoulded parts these days, so that they can be released soon after the original version, without getting resistance from Retailers who just see a straight redeco as being the same toy, no matter who the characters are.

[Krayt]

Except now Breakaway is 2 per case in the current lot getting shipped out....

[Sinnertwin]

Except now Breakaway is 2 per case in the current lot getting shipped out....

Is this another revision wave making the rounds?
Breakaway wasnt included in the second revision wave that stores are currently receiving.

[griffin]

Is this another revision wave making the rounds?
Breakaway wasnt included in the second revision wave that stores are currently receiving.

Maybe it was in Revision 1... to make up for being short packed in Wave 3?
It would also give enough time for Wave 2 Chromedome to be cleared out so that the "same toy" in different colours isn't shelfwarming next to each other.

[FatalityPitt]

The first IDW comic series I've followed is the current Optimus Prime series. I've not followed the IDW-verse Transformers for long, so I've been reading back issues trying to catch up and get familiarized. I like this continuity, it's G1, but with more depth. In the 1980's cartoon, all the Autobots were purely good, while all the Decepticons were purely evil (Except Blitzwing and Octane), and they were all pretty one-dimensional. But in the IDW-verse, there's a lot of grey area where some 'bad' guys went dark in the first place for understandable reasons, and the 'good' guys have their own flaws and moments of weakness.

Using the D&D alignment system, I've made a little chart to give myself a sense of some of these characters. This is just one example of course.

http://i1244.photobucket.com/albums/gg561/TheTransformerPitt/Alignment_zps7jcq40ag.jpg?t=1495711446

[CHILENO20]

That's awesome dude! Makes total sense :cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

I did something like this here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12990&page=2), and my picks were:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/meme_alignments_zpsffd5b654.jpg
Note: These are based on their original Hasbro tech specs personae. Characters from different canon would vary, e.g. Takara Overlord and IDW Prowl would be Lawful Evil.

IDW's Overlord is based on his Hasbro G1 tech specs, which I would say is definitely Chaotic Evil. Selfish and cruel. Doesn't work well in groups and resents being given orders. Pretty much describes IDW/Hasbro Overlord pretty well - just look at his personal crusade against Megatron and the countless lives he killed just to get Megs' attention. Hasbro Overlord is like the Joker from the Dark Knight... he just wants to see the world burn.

[FatalityPitt]

I did something like this here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=12990&page=2), and my picks were:

Note: These are based on their original Hasbro tech specs personae. Characters from different canon would vary, e.g. Takara Overlord and IDW Prowl would be Lawful Evil.

IDW's Overlord is based on his Hasbro G1 tech specs, which I would say is definitely Chaotic Evil. Selfish and cruel. Doesn't work well in groups and resents being given orders. Pretty much describes IDW/Hasbro Overlord pretty well - just look at his personal crusade against Megatron and the countless lives he killed just to get Megs' attention. Hasbro Overlord is like the Joker from the Dark Knight... he just wants to see the world burn.


Yeah, I'll fall on my sword and agree about Overlord. When I first read this guy in LSotW, I thought, "man! what an evil bastard! He's just a psychopath who wants to hurt people just for the sake of hurting people (and proving he's just stronger than everyone else)." I didn't think much about whether he's lawful or chaotic. Now that I think of it, that IS Chaotic Evil.

I don't know whether IDW Prowl is Lawful Evil. He's definitely Lawful, but I don't think he'd deliberately Kill or cause harm just to please himself. To him, causing pain and misery is just a means to an important end.

I do agree about Thundercracker being True Neutral. I wanted to put him on the chart, but I thought Wreck-Gar is more interesting, especially since we're (or at least I am) so use to seeing him as a 'good' character. In his recent appearance in the IDW comics, he was an antagonist, but to me, it seemed like his actions were motivated by mistrust and xenophobia more than anything else. Also, Rum-maj had a pretty tight leash on him, and even she didn't seem 100% Chaotic Evil. She seemed to be motivated by jealously and revenge. Come to think of it, the Junkions didn't strike me as evil, they just felt like they'd been short-changed and were looking to bust some heads to get what they felt was owed to them. They did however enslave to poor POOR sharkticons, so they're definitely not good.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I'd maybe go for Mirage over Thundercracker for True Neutral.

[GoktimusPrime]

Now I have two sets of the 1986 Autobot Cars in my CHUGUR collection - the originals and the TRs. In the Gokiverse the originals represent these characters in their original forms (i.e. 1986 Cars) whereas the TRs represent their 1987 Targetmaster counterparts (only that their Headmasters now). Or in other words...

↓Front row: Kup, Hot Rod, Blurr
↓Back row: Kup w/ Recoil, Hot Rod w/ Firebolt, Blurr w/ Haywire
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Titans%20Return/TR_targetmasters_auto_G1_zpsf8u0xuwn.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Titans%20Return/TR_targetmasters_auto_TR_zpslpmclf2i.jpg
↑Front row: Kup, Hot Rod, Blurr
↑Back row: Kup w/ Flintlock, Hot Rod w/ Firedrive, Blurr w/ Hyperfire

[griffin]

This is mystery that I hope gets solved.

A long time member on TFW ordered from Walmart online to pickup in-store, a Voyager Movie Optimus toy, and when they went to the store to pick it up, their toy had writing over the front (http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/threads/randomly-autograghed-tlk-toys.1109160/)... which he thought at first glance was "pick up", but then realised the words were too long.
It was then noticed that it looked like Peter Cullen's autograph, and if it is, how and why is it there.
It's from a reputable source (Walmart), found by someone who had no motive to make a false claim like this... and it is a toy that hasn't been out long for very long, but why would someone return a toy that had a real or fake Peter Cullen autograph on it.

It seems unlikely, but what if Hasbro had released a few of these toys at random with autographs on them. It wouldn't work in-store as they would be snapped up by employees and scalpers... but as an online exclusive or incentive, it would be a real surprise. It just doesn't make sense that it doesn't have a note of it being a limited authentic autograph on the box, or by any business before it was released (if this was something done by Hasbro or Walmart).
But if it was, wouldn't that be pretty cool surprise to get in the mail from a major online store.

[GoktimusPrime]

Random act of kindness? :confused:

[Sinnertwin]

I'll grab a red marker and start pumping a few out tomorrow, in case you kids feel like you're missing out -nobody will know ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

I'll get the ball rolling...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/poita_zpsdun00rto.jpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NqFcdz4gGKA)

[Sinnertwin]

ZOMG! When was Peter Cullen at Paddy's Markets?

[GoktimusPrime]

Shortly after evicting those Seven Bogans (click on the image) ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

From here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=561666#post561666):

Classic TR: a dude I barely cared about becomes an absolutely phenomenal toy.
Heh, and one could say that G1 Topspin was a pretty lacklustre toy which became a legendary character in the G1 comics - as did a lot of other characters who actually had pretty ordinary figures. Bludgeon, Thunderwing, Carnivac, the Battlechargers, Ratbat etc. ;)

But I think your point is well said and it demonstrates the core strength of the Transformers franchise: good toys. A good toy will sell itself, regardless of what the character is like. And conversely a good Transformer character won't sell as well if the toy sucks. G1 Wheelie didn't peg warm because the character was annoying, it shelfwarmed because the toy sucked. Titans Return Wheelie on the other hand has been a strong seller. G1 Kup got a lot of canonical exposure but that toy was a horrific shelfwarmer because it was such a weak figure. And of course, we know that the first year of Transformers grossed US$1,400,000 in the US market alone by the end of 1984 - back when the comics and cartoon were still in its infancy. It was really the strength of the toys that would've carried most of those sales. Many of us bought (and continue to buy) good Transformers toys long before we saw/see them appear in canon - if they ever do. Take G1 Hubcap for example. That toy never appeared in any Anglophone G1 canon during the 1980s-90s, yet that toy was a strong seller. It even got a G2 redeco. Hubcap's not even an endearing character - the tech specs bio paints him out to be a selfish butthole (as the IDW comics have recently showcased). The dude's a jerk. But he was a nice toy (even if he was just a redeco of Cliffjumper). :)

This is why I'm not a huge fan of designing Transformers as screen characters first and toys second. None of the current RiD toys really amaze me -- I find them to be "okay" toys at best, but none of them strike me as excellent (which is why I refuse to pay full RRP for 'em, except the Legends class figures, they're alright ;)).

[Paulbot]

Heh, and one could say that G1 Topspin was a pretty lacklustre toy which became a legendary character in the G1 comics - as did a lot of other characters who actually had pretty ordinary figures. Bludgeon, Thunderwing, Carnivac, the Battlechargers, Ratbat etc.

Don't get me wrong, I am a Topspin fan as I had Topspin since 1985 (he was the first boxed TF I purchased), but...

Could you really call him "a legendary character" in the comic? He was part of a legendary team and died a memorable way* but he otherwise just made up the numbers and did nothing to stand out.

(* now come to think of it both Jumpstarters had injuries in Time Wars that could justify them becoming Headmasters...)

[GoktimusPrime]

Legendary may not be the right word, but certainly many G1 characters who appeared in the G1 comics made a bigger impression as characters than they did as toys. I was trying to say that it's kinda the reverse of what younger fans who didn't grow up with G1 may be feeling about recent Generations toys like Topspin who're making a bigger impression than their characters.

And I'm also really happy that Hasbro are now bold enough to go and give many of these lesser known characters new figures. Cos rehashing Optimus Prime, Megatron, Starscream, Bumblebee, Soundwave etc. all the time just gets boring. For many of these characters, Generations is giving them the first new toys that they've had ever since G1. Take G1 Top Spin for example - he hasn't had a new toy since 1985! :eek: It's pretty cool to see Generations introducing these characters to whole new generations of fans, and for us older fans we get to experience them again in a whole new way. :D

Although I wouldn't mind them continuing to give us brand new characters too. We've had a few like Drift, Alpha Bravo, Off-Road, Rook, Centuritron, Windblade etc. Some older fans may complain that they're taking up "assortment space" that they'd rather see occupied by known characters, but honestly, younger fans don't know the difference or care. All they see are good toys - as they should. Cos that's what really matters. :D When I walk through my daughter's school yard I see kids playing with Rook with equal zeal as say CW Sunstreaker. They don't discriminate between these characters as we G1ers do.

I think some older fans forget that in the 1980s-90s, G1 characters were completely new too. When we saw these toys for the first time we were enamoured by them on their own merit as toys and not because of any decades-long nostalgia. I hope that Hasbro keeps this up. My only gripe is the whole Headmaster thing -- totally overdone. As much as I love TR Topspin, I must confess that I would prefer it if he weren't a Headmaster. The Headmaster gimmick adds nothing to the toy (although by the same token it doesn't really detract from it either - it's a fairly non-interfering gimmick). Combiner Wars gave us a lot of gestalts, but not every mould released in that line had to combine. CW Ultra Magnus, Megatron, Pipes etc. weren't gestalts. The TR Legends class figures are nice in that they're compatible with Titan Masters but they're not Headmasters -- I just wish that Hasbro would do the same with a lot of the larger figures. Cos by making everyone into Headmasters it kinda makes the gimmick feel less special. :o

[Jellico]

I strongly dislike the Headmaster concept but at the moment in my house they are the most popular Transformers.
At 3 and 4 the kids are too young to transform them by themselves but they can't get enough of the little guys driving the vehicles. Brawn/Brawn is literally acting as a teddy bear as I type.
As frustrating as Headmasters are the play pattern is really strong. To the point Trypticon is going from a "maybe if I can sneak it past the wife" to a "loud and proud for the kids" to expand on that play pattern.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I strongly dislike the Headmaster concept but at the moment in my house they are the most popular Transformers.
May I ask why you don't like the Headmasters concept? Is it the current overdose of non-HM characters being made into HMs, or a dislike for the concept as a whole?

I love the Headmaster concept, although canon wise I prefer the story of the heads being weak Transformers that make mech suits (Transtectors) for themselves over the human/nebulan combining shenanigans. To me, it makes a lot of sense and adds to the play value of toys a lot.

It's cool to have vehicles and little guys to drive them. Having the littles guys around mean you can have a city for them run around on without it having to be ridiculously large.

I will admit that I really love all the ~masters. Target? Yes please!! Power? They don't quite makes sense... but hey, I still love them!

I do think there's a bit of overkill going on at the moment, buteven with charcters that I wouldn't normally bother with (eg, Croc), I find myself thinking
"Maybe his head robot would be cool for swapping" <insert giggling emoticon here>

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Re. Titan Masters, I've been thinking about it for a while.

As a gimmick I'd rather it was kept for formerly-Headmaster characters, maybe with a few obscure characters as repaints/retools (and the requisite Optimus/Megatron/Bumblebees 'cos they're kind of compulsory) to pad out the line. I'm always up for new versions of long-neglected characters, and these days most of my purchases are the re/premolds rather than the 'main' character so to speak. That's my personal preference as an adult collector.

But.

Credit where it's due, it's a well-realised play-pattern/gimmick, carried across the entire line. Most TFs are designed for and sold to kids/their parents, and in that regard the TR line is very well thought out. Every size class can interact with the others, having the cheaper/smaller toys 'work' with the larger/more expensive toys makes the line far more accessible, the interchangeability is a good idea, the Leader-class 'base modes' all linking up is another clever idea...it's a good idea and it's executed well. In all honesty the gimmick usually - usually - doesn't detract from the toys much if at all, and we're getting some good characters/homages from the line who we haven't seen in years. About the biggest thing detracting from it/holding it back is that it came in after Hasbro's cost-cutting measures kicked in...

TBH I wasn't a huge fan of the Headmaster gimmick in the first place, mostly 'cos losing the heads basically spoiled the toy, but Hasbro's gotten it right here IMO.

[Jellico]

May I ask why you don't like the Headmasters concept? Is it the current overdose of non-HM characters being made into HMs, or a dislike for the concept as a whole?


There were a few different things going on.

First up they had the bad timing to be at the end of Season 3 and the general decline from there. Arguably the first of the "silly" gimmicks.

They weren't helped by the US take on how they worked. Short lived squishy humanoids giving boosts to million year old robots. At first glance it works, but then you start thinking how it could go wrong.

Then there were the toys. The Diaclones felt premium even if they weren't. Part of it was they were recognizably real vehicles. Note we see more generic cars etc at this time. The Headmasters were part of that slide from larger size, rubber tires etc. Also they were often sci-fi themed. "Cybertronian" can work very well. But often it is an excuse to hide a multitude of sins.

While I don't blame them for the end of the cartoon etc. They just happened to be there and make a good scapegoat.

So, I was poisoned against the concept from the beginning. I appreciate the concept more now. Especially because I have the funds to get the numbers of toys to make the play pattern work. It was really well done this time.

That said I ignore the Titan Master's name and just treat them as small versions/drones of the larger robot.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

There were a few different things going on.


...So, I was poisoned against the concept from the beginning. I appreciate the concept more now. Especially because I have the funds to get the numbers of toys to make the play pattern work. It was really well done this time.

That said I ignore the Titan Master's name and just treat them as small versions/drones of the larger robot.
Aaah, OK. I understand. Thanks! :D

I must admit I did feel a bit the same about that time too. With Transformers coming out with so many space and cybertonian modes, I think they lost the "Robots in disguise" thing that made them special. As a kid I always loved looking at cars and thinking, "Wow, that could be Bumblebee in there, but I can't tell."

I think my true love for HMs and pals didn't really kick off until later on. Likewise with pretenders. I like them now and have quite a few, but a the time, I thought they were stupid. Dumb crappy robot modes, vehicles that don't look like anything and stupid "inaction" figures. Now though I like them, admittedly it's more about the cheesy badness of the toys over anything else;):o

[FatalityPitt]

I've read on some threads where people mentioned that a lot of the Titans Return characters (who aren't original Headmasters) don't need the Titanmaster gimmick and they're be better off without it. For some characters (like Galvatron), I agree; but (respectfully) I think a lot of non-original-Headmasters benefited from it too, because it gave the vehicle modes cockpits, and the Titanmasters gave those cockpits a purpose.

I think the types of Transformers that don't need the Titanmaster gimmick are those that become realistic vehicles, and the ones that DO need the gimmick are the ones that become less realistic-looking vehicles. For example, if we look at Universe/Henkei Prowl, he doesn't need a Titanmaster/driver and cockpit, because I can see he obviously becomes a police car (there's the wheels, doors, light-bar, etc). On the other hand, if we take Titans Return Blurr (which is basically G1 Blurr), most people unfamiliar with the character/design would wonder "What is that?? It can't be an automobile, there's no wheels!" But when the cockpit opens and they can see the driver, then it becomes apparent that it's meant to be a futuristic hovercar. A similar case with other characters like Kup, Scourge and Topspin. Without the cockpits and pilots/drivers, it's more difficult to think of their alt-modes as modes of transport. Without the cockpits and pilots, they're just weird shapes with wheels and/or wings attached to them.

Sure, the Titanmaster gimmick doesn't add to their looks in robot mode, but in alt-mode; it drives home the notion that these are meant to be vehicles. So I think the Titanmaster gimmick is good, and even necessary for sci-fi/fantasy/futuristic alt-modes because it makes them more believable as vehicles.

[GoktimusPrime]

I respectfully disagree. What a vehicle really needs is just a visible window to show that that's where the pilot or driver would be. That's really it. It doesn't need to be functional. Heck, look at a lot of the original Action Master characters like G1 Krok. That toy had no alt mode but they sculpted in 'vestigial' faux alt mode kibble to indicate what these new characters used to transform into. With Krok you can clearly see the cockpit windows on his chest. Granted this is the only reliable alt mode clue on this toy - we don't know if it was meant to be an aircraft, boat, submarine, land vehicle etc. :p But you get my point. We know that he was meant to have transformed into something with a cockpit - he had a vehicle mode, not a beast mode. That's why I personally am not interested in Titans Return Krok (nothing wrong with the toy, just not my thing). If they'd released the Timelines redeco of stealth bomber Megatron as a regular store release on the other hand, I'd be all over that. :cool:

Look at G1 Hot Rod for example. MP9 is the only version of that character with a functional cockpit (although there are no figures that can actually fit inside it) yet while it's a nice touch, I don't think that it makes the vehicle mode look any more or less identifiable as a vehicle compared to G1, Classics, MP28 or TR Hot Rod. I'm not including Alternators/KISS Play Hot Rod because that's not a fantasy mode.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/comparisons/Masterpiece%20Rodimus%20Prime/masterpiece_rodimus_comparison03_zpsk9fuzqk8.jpg
↑The MP on the left has a functional cockpit while the one on the right does not. I don't think that having a functional cockpit makes a lick of difference in making either toy's alt mode look more or less like a car.

Compare say Universe Cyclonus with Titans Return Scourge - both toys are fairly G1 accurate CHUGUR-style updates of their characters, but Cyclonus is a Targetmaster whereas Scourge is now a Headmaster. IMO Cyclonus is still a really nice toy without needing to sacrifice his Targetmaster gimmick for becoming a Headmaster. The toy has a clearly visible cockpit (http://www.16bit.com/fotd/fotd-pics/025-cac-transformers-cyclonus-2.jpg). The fact that it cannot hold a pilot is irrelevant. All of the TR toys we've seen would still be equally as awesome if they weren't Headmasters. The robot heads would easily occupy another spot on the toy in alt mode, such as the cavity that is now their pilot compartments or other areas. So I really don't think that the Headmaster gimmick has enhanced or added to any of the TR toys. Not even the characters who were originally Headmasters, but at least there's a canonical justification for those characters. Look at the IDWverse - the G1 ~Master characters aren't ~Masters there (except Scorponok). Brainstorm, Domey, Bompaway, Fortress Maximus, Kup, Misfire etc. - none of them have their Master gimmicks. Yet they all have recognisable alt modes, and if Hasbro were to make toys based on their designs without the gimmicks I think that they would still be recognisable.

What you ultimately want in a fantasy alt mode are enough distinctive features to make people recognise it for what it is. Four wheels and a windscreen, yeah it's a car. Wings, stabilisers and a cockpit, yes it's a plane. Just look at any G1 Transformer with an animal mode, none of them were actually realistic. The Dinobots, Insecticons, Predacons etc. all transformed into robotic animals, not actual animals. No fur, scales etc., just metal. But they had enough distinctive features to make them immediately recognisable as what they were meant to be. e.g. You look at G1 Snarl's Dinobot mode and you know straight away that it's a Stegosaurus. It's a fictitious robotic stegosaurus - there's no way in hell that it's ever going to work as a robot in disguise - but you can still see it. ;)

Having said all that... I don't think that the Headmaster gimmick negatively impacts on these toys either. The Headmasters are, for the most part, just detachable accessories. But as I've said before, the thing that I'm not loving about TR is just how they're making every 'bot and his dog into freakin' Headmasters. In G1 only a handful of Transformers were ever Headmasters. They were a special bunch. Now everyone's becoming a Headmaster and well... it doesn't feel so special anymore. :o

It's like what Syndrome said in The Incredibles, "...when everyone's super, no one will be."

[FatalityPitt]

@ Goktimus (the above is too long to quote)

I'll agree to respectfully disagree. I personally believe the cockpits improve the aesthetic and play-value of the alt-modes, and help support the notion that it's a toy of a car/jet/tank/what-have-you. If we didn't care about the attention to detail invested in the alt-modes and only bought Transformers for the robot-modes, then Hasbro/Takara may as well produce them without rolling wheels. Given the choice, do you reckon a Star Wars collector would want to buy a Tie Fighter with or without a cockpit and pilot?

[GoktimusPrime]

I agree that it does add to the play value of the alt-mode, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. And you don't have to be a Headmaster to have this feature anyway. Look at figures like TR Wheelie, Bumblebee, Chase and Brawn - none of them are Headmasters but they all have functional cockpits for drivers, just like the G1 Diaclone Cars, Dinobots and Insecticons. BT/ALT and Human Alliance figures all have functional driver's seats too, yet none of them are Headmasters. Look at Platinum Edition Omega Supreme. They removed the Headmaster gimmick on that toy but the alt mode isn't any better or worse than Energon Omega Supreme's because of it.

I think that having a functional cockpit and being a Headmaster are two fundamentally unrelated gimmicks. Heck, not all Headmasters even have true pilot compartments - Weirdwolf, Horri-Bull, Squeezeplay, Fangry etc. - they all just have storage compartments for their Nebulans, not cockpits. I'd say that even G1 Nightbeat and Siren don't have true cockpits either since their windows are solid plastic. There's no way you can see Muzzle or Quig sitting in there. The original G1 Optimus Prime toy on the other hand has multiple pilot seats - 2 in the truck cab, 6 on Roller and 3 on Combat Deck! Seeing those little seats in there totally helps support the notion of it being a vehicle.

Star Wars collectors would want a cockpit and pilot with their vehicles because the vehicles are meant to be piloted. The pilots are the characters, not the vehicles. Transformers is different because the robots are the characters. Okay, it's really nice that MP10 comes with Spike and MP Magnus comes with Spike and Daniel etc., but really... it's not the core play value of that alt mode. None of the MP Cars come with drivers and I don't think anyone cares. Look at Binaltech/Alternators - none of them had drivers, but boy are they great toys! Binaltech Asterisk and KISS Play later gave us drivers... but you look at say BT/ALT Lambor vs BTA Sunstreaker. Does Lambor really suffer from not coming with a race queen driver? Is BT Broadblast an inherently better toy because it comes with Lumina and Skids doesn't? :confused:

While having a cockpit and/or pilot is nice, I don't find it essential. And it can be done without making them into Headmasters. Just build in compartments for pilots and include small driver figurines - just like Diaclone! :D

DI-A-CLONNNNNNNNE!

[FatalityPitt]

.

Star Wars collectors would want a cockpit and pilot with their vehicles because the vehicles are meant to be piloted. The pilots are the characters, not the vehicles. Transformers is different because the robots are the characters. Okay, it's really nice that MP10 comes with Spike and MP Magnus comes with Spike and Daniel etc., but really... it's not the core play value of that alt mode. None of the MP Cars come with drivers and I don't think anyone cares. Look at Binaltech/Alternators - none of them had drivers, but boy are they great toys! Binaltech Asterisk and KISS Play later gave us drivers... but you look at say BT/ALT Lambor vs BTA Sunstreaker. Does Lambor really suffer from not coming with a race queen driver? Is BT Broadblast an inherently better toy because it comes with Lumina and Skids doesn't? :confused:

While having a cockpit and/or pilot is nice, I don't find it essential. And it can be done without making them into Headmasters. Just build in compartments for pilots and include small driver figurines - just like Diaclone! :D

DI-A-CLONNNNNNNNE!

Sure, the pilot/driver isn't essential for Transformers. However, I feel that it does add value, especially if there's a cockpit/driver's seat, because it gives that feature a purpose instead of just leaving it as an empty space. Also a cockpit/driver's seat is a welcome detail to see in a vehicular toy, so by extension a pilot/driver is also a nice thing to have to complete the package.

BTW, I don't think TR is a perfect line, but the quality of the designs are the best they've been in years as far as Transformers go. My gripe with the line is the choice of characters to their size classes. I'm not fond of the idea that the Junior Headmasters are just heads with accessories that look like their alt-modes. Also, characters like Krok and Topspin look a little out of place in a line revolving around Headmasters.

IF it were up to me, and I was planning the line; there would be no Titanmaster size class ($8-$10 range), or if there was; I'd use new/different characters to fill that class. Instead characters like Nightbeat, Fangry, Horri-bull, etc would be in the Deluxe class roster (not Topspin, Perceptor, etc, unless there were still empty slots left at the end). Of course, since the budget is limited and moulds would need to be reused, I'd allow these characters to be redecos of the original 7 HMs, e.g. Fangry as a redeco of Mindwipe (or Weirdwolf), Squeezplay as a redeco of Skullsmasher, Nighbeat/Siren as redecoes of Chromedome, etc. It's not faithful to the original G1, but hey, a few years back Perceptor was re-imagined in the RTS line as a red-truck instead of a microscope, so why not?

Characters like Topspin, Quake and Krok are welcome, and some are excellent toys; but they aren't characters I would have thought about if I were to build the line exclusively around Headmasters. I wouldn't have ever thought to make Topspin a Headmaster, but I think it worked out well.. Surprisingly

[GoktimusPrime]

My gripe with the line is the choice of characters to their size classes. I'm not fond of the idea that the Junior Headmasters are just heads with accessories that look like their alt-modes. Also, characters like Krok and Topspin look a little out of place in a line revolving around Headmasters.
Exactly why them being Headmasters doesn't do anything for me. It just feels out of place as a gimmick. Having them in a line of Headmasters is fine by me because 1987-88 saw a lot of non-Headmaster toys released alongside the Headmasters anyway (Targetmasters, Clones, Throttlebots, Pretenders, Triggerbots etc.). I have no problem with characters like Krok and Topspin being released in TR, I just would've preferred it if they weren't Headmasters. After all, not every toy in Combiner Wars was a gestalt. :o CHUGUR has never been about releasing the characters in G1-chronological order anyway. As long as they keep hittin' the remaining G1 characters who've never been done as CHUGUR toys before then I'm one very happy chappy. :) Although I don't care for Broadside being a Headmaster, I am very chuffed at finally being able to complete my CHUGUR Autobot Triple Changers. :cool:


IF it were up to me, and I was planning the line; there would be no Titanmaster size class ($8-$10 range), or if there was; I'd use new/different characters to fill that class. Instead characters like Nightbeat, Fangry, Horri-bull, etc would be in the Deluxe class roster
I quite like how they're releasing the Japanese Headmaster Warriors as Titan Masters. :D Only have Sawback atm but would love to get Shuffler and the rest. :)

[tinyJazz]

I've read on some threads where people mentioned that a lot of the Titans Return characters (who aren't original Headmasters) don't need the Titanmaster gimmick and they're be better off without it. For some characters (like Galvatron), I agree; but (respectfully) I think a lot of non-original-Headmasters benefited from it too, because it gave the vehicle modes cockpits, and the Titanmasters gave those cockpits a purpose.

I think the types of Transformers that don't need the Titanmaster gimmick are those that become realistic vehicles, and the ones that DO need the gimmick are the ones that become less realistic-looking vehicles. For example, if we look at Universe/Henkei Prowl, he doesn't need a Titanmaster/driver and cockpit, because I can see he obviously becomes a police car (there's the wheels, doors, light-bar, etc). On the other hand, if we take Titans Return Blurr (which is basically G1 Blurr), most people unfamiliar with the character/design would wonder "What is that?? It can't be an automobile, there's no wheels!" But when the cockpit opens and they can see the driver, then it becomes apparent that it's meant to be a futuristic hovercar. A similar case with other characters like Kup, Scourge and Topspin. Without the cockpits and pilots/drivers, it's more difficult to think of their alt-modes as modes of transport. Without the cockpits and pilots, they're just weird shapes with wheels and/or wings attached to them.

Sure, the Titanmaster gimmick doesn't add to their looks in robot mode, but in alt-mode; it drives home the notion that these are meant to be vehicles. So I think the Titanmaster gimmick is good, and even necessary for sci-fi/fantasy/futuristic alt-modes because it makes them more believable as vehicles.

Interesting points, but I have to disagree. Titan Masters are completely unnecessary. It's regressing into the played-out piloted mech genre, which, to me, is the polar opposite of what makes Transformers great.

I really don't think you need a driver to make sense of a toy having a cockpit. Especially if you already know it transforms into a robot and that the vehicle with a cockpit is just its disguise. If people have trouble seeing "sci-fi vehicle" when looking at Blurr's alt-mode they probably have a limited imagination and aren't the target audience for an action figure.

Also, I've always thought headmasters was the dumbest transformers gimmick ever and I was genuinely surprised that hasbro decided to resurrect it. I do think they improved on it though by adding the playset/base concept for the little dudes to run around in.

[kurdt_the_goat]

I must admit I did feel a bit the same about that time too. With Transformers coming out with so many space and cybertonian modes, I think they lost the "Robots in disguise" thing that made them special. As a kid I always loved looking at cars and thinking, "Wow, that could be Bumblebee in there, but I can't tell."

Why do the Transformers transform at all if not for means of stealth or transport? Arguably they're still in disguise on Cybertron, if looked at from the perspective of the opposing faction, who'd be familiar with Cybertronian vehicles. Just from your puny fleshling perspective it can't be a disguise if you never knew what it was being disguised as!


I think the types of Transformers that don't need the Titanmaster gimmick are those that become realistic vehicles, and the ones that DO need the gimmick are the ones that become less realistic-looking vehicles. For example, if we look at Universe/Henkei Prowl, he doesn't need a Titanmaster/driver and cockpit, because I can see he obviously becomes a police car (there's the wheels, doors, light-bar, etc). On the other hand, if we take Titans Return Blurr (which is basically G1 Blurr), most people unfamiliar with the character/design would wonder "What is that?? It can't be an automobile, there's no wheels!" But when the cockpit opens and they can see the driver, then it becomes apparent that it's meant to be a futuristic hovercar. A similar case with other characters like Kup, Scourge and Topspin. Without the cockpits and pilots/drivers, it's more difficult to think of their alt-modes as modes of transport. Without the cockpits and pilots, they're just weird shapes with wheels and/or wings attached to them.

So they probably put cockpits in pre-masters Cybertron modes initially as an attempt to convince the audience they were actual vehicles and not just flying shapes. But they don't really need cockpits do they? Hardly seems necessary when there were no humans to pilot them (to begin with). I guess you have the possibility of humanoid aliens or non-transforming robots/drones piloting them. But probably, Headmasters came about from a need to reconcile why the Cybertron modes had cockpits to begin with (and cause they's cool :D). From that point of view i can agree that Cybertron modes benefit most from having a Headmaster and in the case of toys, functional, scaled cockpit for them.

[Jellico]

Also, I've always thought headmasters was the dumbest transformers gimmick ever

But but Action Masters ;)



I am going to throw an idea out I was thinking about last night as to why the Diaclone stuff specifically was considered better than later years.

They came with cockpits.

I am not saying pilots made them better. But the need to leave space for a pilot meant a certain amount of size and price point that demanded creativity and fancy features like spring loaded weapons (or even weapons at all) and rubber tires. A lot of those features disappeared as scale dropped, first with Devastator and later the scramble city combiners.

[FatalityPitt]

... is the polar opposite of what makes Transformers great.

If people have trouble seeing "sci-fi vehicle" when looking at Blurr's alt-mode they probably have a limited imagination and aren't the target audience for an action figure.


I’ll agree to disagree. When rating a Transformer, a lot of collectors think in terms of “Do I like this toy, and will like-minded collectors like it too?” This is all well and good. It’s important for Hasbro/Takara to keep its existing fan-base happy. However when I rate a Generations Transformer, questions that come to my mind include “What would the lay-person (or lay-child) think of Transformers after experiencing this toy? Will he/she want another Transformer after this one? Is the toy good enough to turn a non-fan with no prior Transformers knowledge into a fan?” If this lay-person/non-fan wants another Transformer, or at least wants to explore the hobby after playing with the Transformer; then the Transformer is a successful one because it’s created a potential new customer for the franchise.

An example of a successful Transformer - Last year, I attended the birthday party of a soon-to-be 11 year-old friend of the family. The kid was a Ninja Turtles fan who didn’t show much knowledge or interest in Transformers, but I decided to give him a TR Hardhead anyway – something different from what he normally gets. Several weeks after the party, I met the family again, and the boy told me he liked Hardhead because he looked cool and transforming him was fun. He also showed me his collection of ‘head-guys’ which his mum recently bought (it was just TR Loudmouth, Nightbeat, etc). To me TR Hardhead is the perfect example of a successful Transformer, because without the kid knowing who the character was, it still won the kid over with its design and fun features, and it made him a fan.

But now, imagine what would have happened if I gave him my MoC RTS Perceptor instead. From the perspective of you and I, RTS Perceptor is good because it looks like G1 Perceptor, and he transforms into a convincing model of a half-track. Me personally, even though he’s a figure of a character I’ve liked since childhood, I didn’t enjoy the toy. The Transformation was too complicated and frustrating. Perhaps I lack a certain intelligence, but the first 2-3 times I transformed it, it took me 15-20 minutes just trying to get him into vehicle mode. If a 24 year-old university-educated business analyst with experience with Transformers struggled with this toy, what chance would a regular 10-year old kid have? I don’t think RTS Perceptor would impress the average 10 year-old. While it has its good qualities, I wouldn’t call it successful.

You might now be thinking “OK, what about Masterpieces? They’re not figures of universally recognizable characters, and the Transformations can be super-complex; yet they’re pretty successful.” That’s because Masterpieces are for a very specific market. One of the differences between Generations Deluxe figures and Masterpieces is that one line is sold at general retail stores like Kmart, Target, etc; while the other is a niche item that’s sold at specialty stores. The Transformers Masterpiece line is not mainstream. Masterpieces are not for everyone, but it does a good job of catering to it’s intended audience. Generations Deluxes on the other hand are more accessible to non-fans, and ideally, the toy should be good enough to attract even a non-fan whether they are buying the toy for themselves, or as a gift for someone else.

From a certain perspective, the marketing and design team for the Masterpiece line have it easier, because they’re catering to people who are ALREADY fans; whereas the Generations line has to appeal to not just existing fans, but also prospective fans – The sort of person wandering the Target toy aisle, who’s heard of Transformers but hasn’t held one, but is curious about them.

To sum up the above as elegantly possible; for a Generations Transformer to be “successful”, it needs to appeal to not just existing fans, but also prospective ones with limited knowledge of Transformers. The added features in Titans Return (cockpits and pilots that convert into heads) don’t contradict this goal, but support it.




But they don't really need cockpits do they? Hardly seems necessary when there were no humans to pilot them (to begin with). I guess you have the possibility of humanoid aliens or non-transforming robots/drones piloting them. But probably, Headmasters came about from a need to reconcile why the Cybertron modes had cockpits to begin with (and cause they's cool :D). From that point of view i can agree that Cybertron modes benefit most from having a Headmaster and in the case of toys, functional, scaled cockpit for them.

Yeah, because if you take G1 Scourge's alt-mode for example, to an 'uneducated' eye; it might look like a flying blue bath tub, or some kind of 'boat'. But when you add the cockpit and pilot, then it becomes apparent that it's meant to be a spaceship.

My memory is a bit foggy, but I remember reading articles about fans back in the 1980's complaining about the outlandish alien-like vehicle modes, etc. I think that might be because they didn't look like conventional vehicles at the time, nor did they have drivers/pilots to justify the notion that they're suppose to be vehicles.

[GoktimusPrime]

Why do the Transformers transform at all if not for means of stealth or transport? Arguably they're still in disguise on Cybertron, if looked at from the perspective of the opposing faction, who'd be familiar with Cybertronian vehicles. Just from your puny fleshling perspective it can't be a disguise if you never knew what it was being disguised as!
Cybertronian modes were often more for easier movement or other practical functions like transport, combat, entertainment etc. As Trailbreaker once said, "Besides, it sure beats walking." But sometimes they were for disguise too, such as Soundwave's street lamp mode.


But they don't really need cockpits do they? Hardly seems necessary when there were no humans to pilot them (to begin with).
Although never explicitly stated, the G1 cartoon stated that the Transformers were made by the Quintessons, so it's possible that cockpits were installed for the benefits of their tentacled masters and possibly other races that they might have sold the Transformers off to. Other continuities on the other hand have never explained this anomaly. The Dreamwave Comics looked like they were actually going to explain this, but unfortunately the company went under and the comics were cancelled before this story could be told. :(

It's one of those weird anomalies, but then again, there's no real reason why the Transformers should have human-like bodies, faces, noses, mouths etc. either. :o


I am going to throw an idea out I was thinking about last night as to why the Diaclone stuff specifically was considered better than later years.

They came with cockpits.
I'd actually say that it was due to having more instantly recognisable alt modes - because remember that a lot of early G1 TFs didn't have cockpits too (e.g. Megatron, Cassettes, Constructicons etc.), and in the case of Ironhide and Ratchet, their cockpits probably worked against them (as they were in lieu of actual heads). But when you look at these alt modes, you know exactly what they're meant to be since they were based on real life things. The Middle G1 Years saw alt modes shift more towards fantasy-based modes and this is when we saw toys losing popularity as the alt modes were less instantly recognisable to consumers.

Scourge is a good example of this. For ages I never knew that he was meant to be an aircraft, I honestly thought that he was a boat. It wasn't until TFTM hit cinemas and I watched the movie and saw him flying that I realised that he was an aircraft. :eek: Scourge was also the very last of the Decepticon Jets that I got - never bothered buying him from shops but later got it free from a friend who "grew out" of Transformers. :rolleyes:

Other examples:

+ BEAST WARS vs BEAST MACHINES
We all know that Beast Wars was a huge success while Beast Machines bombed. Boy were those BM toys really bad shelfwarmers! And I think one reason for this was the less recognisable looking alt modes. Check this out:
MISB Optimus Primal (https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2135/3531418071_e6efbfca6b_b.jpg)
MISB TM Optimus Primal (https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/222427664676_/Transformers-Beast-Wars-Transmetals-Optimus-Primal-Unopened-MISB.jpg)
MISB Optimal Optimus (https://s3.amazonaws.com/tf.images/reduced-bwoptima.jpg)
...vs...
MOSC Optimus Primal (http://www.toyarena.com/images/076930804681.jpg)
Take a close look at the text on that last toy just below the character's name. That's right, it says "Gorilla." By BM the alt modes had become so weird looking that Hasbro felt the need to tell us what the hell these things were by explicitly printing it on the front of the packaging! :eek:
Pro Tip: If a toy's alt mode looks so obscure that you need to tell people what they are then it's probably not a great looking alt mode! :o

And Optimus Primal was one of the better BM toys - we had figures like Silverbolt and Sky Shadow etc. -- who knows what they're meant to be! And the Vehicons all had fantasy-based vehicle modes, much like Middle G1, and they didn't do much better than their Maximal counterparts. BM Mirage even has an open driver's compartment and still pegwarmed.

And what was the first line of Post-BW TFs that sold like hotcakes? Car Robot/Robots In Disguise of course. And none of them had cockpits ('cept for Mach Alert) - but they were all immediately recognisable licensed alt modes! And those toys sold REALLY well. Remember how they were flying off shelves months before the TV show even started airing? ;) And of course, Takara have admitted that Car Robot became the inspiration for Binaltech and Masterpiece, so their legacy still lives on in the current MP line (and CHUGUR too, really - it's the same concept as CR only with G1 characters).

Look at how well CHUGUR's been selling. Most of these toys don't have cockpits or pilots, and it's not as if CHUGUR's been doing really poorly before Titans Return came along. Classics, Universe, Generations, Reveal the Shield, Combiner Wars etc. - these lines were all highly popular with fans and sold pretty well. They have immediately recognisable alt modes, even if they're not based on licensed vehicles. Take Classics Bumblebee for example - it's clearly a hatchback. The make or model is irrelevant, you know that this is a compact car.


I don’t think RTS Perceptor would impress the average 10 year-old. While it has its good qualities, I wouldn’t call it successful.
But that toy sold really well! I had trouble finding it in stores, and when I finally did mine was defective and I had to hunt for a replacement to exchange it with. And I don't recall this toy exactly being a pegwarmer.


You might now be thinking “OK, what about Masterpieces? They’re not figures of universally recognizable characters, and the Transformations can be super-complex; yet they’re pretty successful.” That’s because Masterpieces are for a very specific market. One of the differences between Generations Deluxe figures and Masterpieces is that one line is sold at general retail stores like Kmart, Target, etc; while the other is a niche item that’s sold at specialty stores. The Transformers Masterpiece line is not mainstream. Masterpieces are not for everyone, but it does a good job of catering to it’s intended audience.
1/ MPs are sold in regular stores in Japan.
2/ Some of them are also shelfwarming, e.g. Road Rage, Tracks, Wheeljack, Ironhide, Ratchet, Delta Magnus, Convoy, Inferno etc. - I found all of these toys in several stores during my recent trip to Japan.

But as you said, MP is a highly specialised line so it's not something that I would compare with a mainstream TF line like CHUGUR. :o


Yeah, because if you take G1 Scourge's alt-mode for example, to an 'uneducated' eye; it might look like a flying blue bath tub, or some kind of 'boat'. But when you add the cockpit and pilot, then it becomes apparent that it's meant to be a spaceship.
Have you read the TR Scourge review thread (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=23339) lately? Boat jokes ahoy!! :cool:


My memory is a bit foggy, but I remember reading articles about fans back in the 1980's complaining about the outlandish alien-like vehicle modes, etc. I think that might be because they didn't look like conventional vehicles at the time, nor did they have drivers/pilots to justify the notion that they're suppose to be vehicles.
You don't need articles to confirm that, just look at toy sales and its impact on the brand. Transformers started shifting towards fantasy modes in 1986 and increased this trend throughout the 80s. In 1987 toy sales had dropped so badly that Hasbro cancelled the US G1 cartoon series after only a 3 episode pilot (The Rebirth). Toy sales in Japan lasted a few years longer but again, by the turn of the decade toy sales there too had dropped so low that the Japanese series was cancelled in 1990 with a 1 episode pilot (Zone). And we know that the US comics were cancelled in 1991 as was the G1 North American toy line, with the UK comics cancelled a year later. Then a few months after that G1 died and was replaced with G2.

The realistic looking beast modes in BW boosted Transformers and made it the 3rd best selling toy line by 1997 although there was a lull during BM only to enjoy great success again with CR/RiD. So typically we see the Transformers brand at its stronger points when the toys are based on recognisable alt modes and its lower points when the toys move away from this.

The same works with adults such as with MPs. MP Star Sabre has the most fantasy-based alt mode and enjoyed limited popularity with fans, yet other MPs have enjoyed far greater success. Or heck, look at Bayformers - and I'll use Megatron as an example. TF1 and ROTF Megatron didn't enjoy as much popularity and their toys were bad shelfwarmers and I think part of the lack of appeal was a recognisable alt mode. TF1 Megatron transformed into a ... I dunno... thing with... wings. ROTF Megatron transformed into a... uh... lump with treads? :confused: Looking at the screen model doesn't help much. They're not immediately recognisable modes. Ejector sold better and he was a freakin' toaster! :D Or how awesome were the twins as an ice cream truck! :) DOTM Megatron AoE Galvatron have sold better because they're recognisable trucks. Megatron doesn't have to be a truck, but he just needs to be something that people can recognise.

TLK Megatron transforms into a fantasy jet, but it's one with distinctively Earthen elements to it - distinctive fixed wings, a cockpit etc. - this is a far cry from his TF1 jet mode. And I suspect that this may have been done to help make the toy more marketable.

[FatalityPitt]

But that toy sold really well! I had trouble finding it in stores, and when I finally did mine was defective and I had to hunt for a replacement to exchange it with. And I don't recall this toy exactly being a pegwarmer.


I won't argue for the sake of arguing, but I'll share a thought:

According to the packaging (https://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/view/reveal-the-shield/perceptor/2280/1/1/), the recommended age for RTS Perceptor was age 5+. If you gave that toy to a 7 year-old; what would his/her reaction be after attempting to transform it, and will he/she want another Transformer after that?



But as you said, MP is a highly specialised line so it's not something that I would compare with a mainstream TF line like CHUGUR. :o


The point I was trying to make is that I think MPs are mainly for "experts" (veteran fans like yourself), while "CHUGUR" is meant to appeal to not just experts, but attract new or casual fans; so the two lines have differing objectives. I wasn't comparing the quality of the two lines. If anything, I was differentiating them.

(EDIT: )




The same works with adults such as with MPs. MP Star Sabre has the most fantasy-based alt mode and enjoyed limited popularity with fans, yet other MPs have enjoyed far greater success. Or heck, look at Bayformers - and I'll use Megatron as an example. TF1 and ROTF Megatron didn't enjoy as much popularity and their toys were bad shelfwarmers and I think part of the lack of appeal was a recognisable alt mode. TF1 Megatron transformed into a ... I dunno... thing with... wings. ROTF Megatron transformed into a... uh... lump with treads? Looking at the screen model doesn't help much. They're not immediately recognisable modes. Ejector sold better and he was a freakin' toaster! Or how awesome were the twins as an ice cream truck! DOTM Megatron AoE Galvatron have sold better because they're recognisable trucks. Megatron doesn't have to be a truck, but he just needs to be something that people can recognise.

TLK Megatron transforms into a fantasy jet, but it's one with distinctively Earthen elements to it - distinctive fixed wings, a cockpit etc. - this is a far cry from his TF1 jet mode. And I suspect that this may have been done to help make the toy more marketable.



Yes, this was the point I was trying to make earlier with the cockpits. Thank you! :)

If they're going to make a Transformer that becomes a sci-fi/fantasy vehicle, they're going to have to work something extra into the design that says "Hi, I may not look like it, but I'm actually a car/jet/tank". I think a cockpit and pilot does a good job of delivering that message.

[BigTransformerTrev]

For the first time in many many years I'm going to have to curtail my TF spending. Going to concentrate on the TR line with a smidge of the others.

To this end I'm having my 39.5 before we move as few will travel the giant distance from VIC for my 40th in Nov. I've said in my invite 'Presents are NOT required (though toys from TF5: TLK will be grudgingly yet graciously accepted)

Hopefully I might get a few of that toy line this way :D

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Firstly, I'd like to apologise to Fatality Pit for my quiestion. I had no idea it would turn out like this...:o


Why do the Transformers transform at all if not for means of stealth or transport? Arguably they're still in disguise on Cybertron, if looked at from the perspective of the opposing faction, who'd be familiar with Cybertronian vehicles. Just from your puny fleshling perspective it can't be a disguise if you never knew what it was being disguised as!
Lets face it, Transformers are made for humans, not for other Transformers as they are just toys. Your puny fleshling comment is not enough to get me riled up ;)

In a way, Headmasters are just another type of Combiner toy. Whats cooler than a robot that changes into a vehicle? A robot that changes into a vehicle and combines with another robot.

Let's have a look at Star saber as an example.

A toy made with robot mode in mind. Sure, his robot mode is super cool. But you gotta admit that his vehicle modes is kind of naff and falls into the "space vehicle" category. Yuki, combining with saber, who then becomes star saber manages to elevate the toy somewhat. Imagine if there was no brain master gimmick in him. I think he'd suck somewhat to be honest as hed just be a big chunky robot that looks a LOT like a gundam figure and transforms into a flat white "thing".
just as a quick side note, I'd sure love animated Megatron's cybertron mode to have had a cockpit. At least then I'd know which was supposed to be the front:p

I said before I like Headmasters and I do. Gok stated that he doesn't like previously not-headmaster toys being HMs now. However, the current trend of HM toys is just another line isn't it?
Blurr is a HM toy
In Armada, he was also an Armada toy (and pretty crap too).
All the toys of the same line have the line-wide gimmick don't they?

The line will end eventually and we'll move onto the next gimmick line. I very much doubt the Legends/TR line will be the final line of G1 referencing toys by any means.

One positive aspect of the HM figures though, is that they don't have to be designed with some stupid head revealing gimmick, or have to make room somewhere for the head to hide in vehicle mode.

Anyway, that's my 2 yen. Whan all the HM stuff ends, I know I'll be happy with all my little heady robots. In a way, I think they've been very clever with the way it's been done on some characters. Like Trypticon for example, who isn't a headmaster himself, but his little chest car thing is the headmaster, which has a backup of Trypticon's spark in it. Very clever.

[Sinnertwin]

Lol

[GoktimusPrime]

As I said, I don't dislike the Headmaster gimmick. It's fairly non-interfering, so worse case scenario if you really don't like it just ignore it. The Titan Master becomes nothing more than a detachable transforming accessory. It doesn't really compromise the toy unlike Armada's Powerlinx gimmicks which absolutely did compromise design and engineering, thus giving rise to the expression, "wHy My 5h0ULd3r5 hUr7?" #jAaM Even Hasbro made fun of this with CHUGUR Hot Shot's "JAAM" number plate. ;) The worst of TR is still better than the best of Armada.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/meme_headygoodness_zpsldmi8pn5.jpg

[FatalityPitt]

Firstly, I'd like to apologise to Fatality Pit for my quiestion. I had no idea it would turn out like this...:o



Nah, no need for apologies ;)

If anything, I brought it on myself. TBH, I didn't even notice your initial comment. The thought popped in my head when I was mucking around with Topspin and wondered, "would it really be better off without the Titanmaster gimmick? No!" Then I went to voice my opinion. Unfortunately I did a terrible job expressing my thoughts and ended up in a debate of sorts. :rolleyes:

I agree completely about Star Saber's alt-mode and brainmaster gimmick. The other nice thing about having a small figurine to display next to a fantasy alt-mode, is that it tells the beholder "people are suppose to fit in that, and the figurine represents the average-sized humanoid". It creates a sense of scale. Also, the fact that the figurine can integrate into the robot-mode by forming the head/gun/what-have-you, is pretty economical. Just my 2 cents.

[GoktimusPrime]

RE: alt modes x robots in disguise ;)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/shortpacked/shortpacked_altmodes_zpsuxbaw2o2.jpg

[Ralph Wiggum]

Sitting at Changi Airport and decide to wander into the toy stores...spot MP Inferno, Ironhide, Ratchet and Red Alert+. Just seems kinda random to spot these toys at an airport.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, I found quite a few Japanese TFs at Hong Kong airport last month, but they were on the expensive side. Considering that I was flying into Tokyo I was confident that I could find 'em for RRP or less (which I did). :p It was interesting finding those toys, but not at those prices. I suppose it's for those last minute souvenirs from visiting friends/relos. :o

[griffin]

Sitting at Changi Airport and decide to wander into the toy stores...spot MP Inferno, Ironhide, Ratchet and Red Alert+. Just seems kinda random to spot these toys at an airport.

Singapore airport has a great toystore in the main terminal (I bought quite a few toys when in Singapore a few years back)... which itself is marketed as a 24 hour shopping centre, for non-travelling people to come to for just for the shopping.

But you find those all-hours hub airports like Singapore and HK have all that shopping there for those people who may be spending several hours between connecting flights, but don't want to leave the airport. (HK airport's terminal 2 looks more like a shopping centre as well, with three toystores in the two terminals.)

The only problem with that though is that if you do too much shopping before a flight or between flights, you may not have the ability to take it on the flight (as you already have checked in your check-in luggage)... particularly if you like most people, are already taking on your limit of carry-on luggage to reduce or prevent having check-in luggage.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Yeah, I found quite a few Japanese TFs at Hong Kong airport last month, but they were on the expensive side. Considering that I was flying into Tokyo I was confident that I could find 'em for RRP or less (which I did). :p It was interesting finding those toys, but not at those prices. I suppose it's for those last minute souvenirs from visiting friends/relos. :o

Yeah prices were definitely at a premium, something like 15-20% more expensive. If I was desperate for a particular figure, and saw it there and then, I probably would've bought it.


The only problem with that though is that if you do too much shopping before a flight or between flights, you may not have the ability to take it on the flight (as you already have checked in your check-in luggage)... particularly if you like most people, are already taking on your limit of carry-on luggage to reduce or prevent having check-in luggage.

I'll admit it was hard to walk away from the toy store without buying something. Their stock would give most Australian toy stores a run for the money. But with full luggage already I could only get something small, and they didn't have what I was looking for. Still, I returned from my trip with my MP36 which shall be posted in the June acquisitions :)

[Bladestorm]

Yeah prices were definitely at a premium, something like 15-20% more expensive. If I was desperate for a particular figure, and saw it there and then, I probably would've bought it.




HK airport toy stores normally have a great selection but sell at eBay prices as they know they have a captive audience, especially passengers in transit who won't be leaving the airport. Unfortunately to get the regular and bargain prices for toys you have to stay in HK overnight and hit the stores in places like Mong Kok.

[snaketales]

Not so random but didn't know where to put it... a podcast I listen to is reviewing all live action transformers movies this month, one per week . It started this week.
It's called "We hate movies". It's funny, if you're prepared to laugh at people ripping into it. There is some language throughout it.

[GoktimusPrime]

Some dude in the US is attempting to set the Guinness record for the world's largest Transformers collection.
http://www.pe.com/2017/06/05/how-much-does-this-eastvale-man-love-transformers-he-counts-1313-ways/
...with a collection of 618 toys. Okay, he boasts to have a total collection of all things Transformers at 1313 -- but honestly. I've got 2038 toys... I don't count my non-toy stuff, but on toys alone I already got this guy beaten. If I counted all my comics, posters, DVDs etc... yeah. And guys like griffin have far larger collections than mine. Then you have international fans like Harold Tietjens or Akiyama Fumihiko who - IMHO - are the more likely contenders to have the world's largest collection.

This dude does have a large collection considering that 53% of collectors have 200 toys or fewer. But by the same token, 24% of fans have collections numbering 700 or more, with 19% of fans owning over 1000 toys.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Collection%20Poll/collection_pollresults_2007-2011_averaged.jpg

This is what my Transformers comic book collection looked like 10 years ago...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers%20Collection%202007/Books/th_comics_marvel.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers%20Collection%202007/Books/th_comics_dwidw.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers%20Collection%202007/Books/th_comics_convention.jpg

[Megatran]

The dude has a name "AJ" Arj.

Arj's story of growing up with Transformers resonates with many TF fans / collectors. Better still he shares his passion with his kids. :cool:

He may not have the largest collection (he doesn't ... by a long shot) but he's proud to nominate himself for the Guinness. Good on him! :)

I enjoy these stories. Thanks for sharing.

[Sinnertwin]

& how many of us have approached Guiness like AJ?
Hmmm?

[Megatran]

My exact thoughts too.

[GoktimusPrime]

& how many of us have approached Guiness like AJ?
But that's cos the rest of us know damn well that we don't have the world's largest collection. I have no problem with this guy boasting about this collection. And as I said, it is a large collection, larger than the average collector's collection. But to be so bold as to claim that it's the world's largest? :confused: No offence to this guy, but that's just factually incorrect.

[Sinnertwin]

Factually incorrect according to? GWR have their own set rules of judging criteria, & if nobody else has come forward & met them, why not make the claim?

If people feel so strongly about AJ and his claim, contact GWR, jump through the hoops like he has and prove them wrong.

[GoktimusPrime]

This guy has come out on social media abusing people who've pointed out to him that his collection isn't the world's largest. I can't repeat the words here, but yeah, incredibly immature and vile stuff. I could understand that maybe this guy has simply never ever met or communicated with too many other TF collectors and never Googled or read articles about other collectors to realise that there are bigger collections out there - perhaps he was just really ignorant. But as people with larger collections have been flooding him with responses and proving him wrong, he's now lashing back in really horrible ways and has generally abused the Transfandom as a whole. I can't repeat the exact words, but he's basically said that anyone who spends "that much money" on building a large collection (i.e. collection larger than his) must be a sad individual who desperately needs to fornicate with females. Abuse aside I also find it grossly hypocritical, because while 618 may not be the world's biggest collection, it is still a really big collection! :eek: 600+ figures is not something to be laughed at, that's a LOT of toys!

Like I said, I'm not having a go at this guy for wanting to show off or boast about his big collection. Most of us boast about our collections, myself included. As a person who has his collection count number with a link to pics in his post signature, it would be grossly hypocritical for me to criticise anyone else for wanting to show off their toys. ;) :p But for one big collector to then go out and abuse all other big collectors (or specifically, bigger collectors), just seems not just hypocritical but also incredibly petty and jealous. So if he thinks that a person with say 1000 toys is a sad individual, what happens when his collection reaches that size?!? :confused: Or is he planning on capping his collection at 618?

[griffin]

It's no wonder he retaliated. He posts up something he was excited and proud of - being the first person to approach Guinness - and all the trolls came out of the woodwork to bring him down.
Sure, it's not the biggest, and if he is oblivious of that, then let him have his moment, and rationally prove it... (you have no idea how much I hate myself for saying this) look at what Ryan from seibertron posted on his facebook page - yes, it gave him an opportunity to heavily plug his website, but he welcomed him to the larger fandom that he is obviously unaware of, in addition to showing him that there are 4 digit collections out there (or 5 digit if you count the non-toy items)... and that's why his post was left up and the trolls were deleted.

Even my comment on your fb page could have been interpreted as being a bit snobbish, even though it was just noting that there are much larger collections out there... it missed the point of his original posting.

Sure, it wouldn't have stayed a "Guinness record" for long, but he made it possible for there to be a listing for largest Transformers collection, and for that, he earns his short period as being *their* verified largest collection.

[Ralph Wiggum]

Let me guess: rather than the "Hey nice collection dude, though I would point out that this, this and this are bigger collections" it actually was "LOL OMGZ nub loser kent noway ur collection is bigger lol. Better luck next time! lol!!!!'"

And he didn't react to well to that, nor the others to his reaction and the cycle of internet arguing continued.

http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/7/71/Internet_argument.jpg

[GoktimusPrime]

I wasn't aware that people were abusing him, although I don't think that it justifies his response... but I also don't condone of anyone else being abusive towards him.

As I've said, 600+ toys is still a bloody BIG collection, especially considering that only 25% of TF collectors own 600 toys more more. He's a member of a fairly limited club. My thoughts are, "That's a huge collection, but it's no where close to being the biggest."

[Sinnertwin]

What number are you basing that 25% off? Have these numbers been independently verified or are we just taking collectors at their word?

[FatalityPitt]

I got the perfect first world problem.

I recently went through some of my stuff in storage, and I noticed through the plastic window of my MISB G1 Encore Meister (Jazz); the pins attaching the wheels to the car (I think they're 'axles') have started to rust and grow mold. Yeah, it's my own fault for not being careful where I store my stuff.

So now I'm contemplating on whether to leave the figure as is, or take it out of the package and clean off the mold and rust with some WD-40. This is a figure I've had since 2011, and didn't plan on opening. If I do take it out of the package to clean up, I'll have to do the same with the Encore Twincast too, which I stored in the same area as Jazz, and it's also showing signs of mold growth (white spots) on the other side of the plastic window. Screws and metal parts are probably rusty too...

[GoktimusPrime]

What number are you basing that 25% off? Have these numbers been independently verified or are we just taking collectors at their word?
6 years' worth of census data. Like other censuses it's based on trust that collectors have submitted accurate data. AFAIK it's the most accurate data collected about collection size - if someone else has more comprehensive data then I would welcome it.

The numbers I cited wasn't completely accurate as it was based off the average results from the 2007-11 polls, but there were also polls in 2012 and 2014. So based on the average of results from 2007-11, 2012 & 2014 I can tell you that 68% of collectors reported having collection sizes under 600, so obviously that means that at 618 figures he's part of 32% of fans with collections numbering 600+.

I've stopped doing the survey because it was causing too much trouble. Each year's poll is just a snapshot of what our collections were like - and that's all censuses are, snapshots. And I think that 6 years' worth of snapshots gives us a reasonably decent picture. :o

[Megatran]

A proud moment for a TF fan & it ends up predictably in a trolling session. I'd be disappointed if a newbie came here & got that sort of treatment / line of questioning.

[Sinnertwin]

A proud moment for a TF fan & it ends up predictably in a trolling session. I'd be disappointed if a newbie came here & got that sort of treatment / line of questioning.

They're probably just burnt because they didn't think of it themselves.

[Starscream77]

A proud moment for a TF fan & it ends up predictably in a trolling session. I'd be disappointed if a newbie came here & got that sort of treatment / line of questioning.

This ^
The TF community can be real b***hes sometimes. Who cares if it's not the biggest or who has what, just enjoy what you have and let others be
As for having polls on who's is bigger??? That says a lot to me

[tinyJazz]

I got the perfect first world problem.

I recently went through some of my stuff in storage, and I noticed through the plastic window of my MISB G1 Encore Meister (Jazz); the pins attaching the wheels to the car (I think they're 'axles') have started to rust and grow mold. Yeah, it's my own fault for not being careful where I store my stuff.

So now I'm contemplating on whether to leave the figure as is, or take it out of the package and clean off the mold and rust with some WD-40. This is a figure I've had since 2011, and didn't plan on opening. If I do take it out of the package to clean up, I'll have to do the same with the Encore Twincast too, which I stored in the same area as Jazz, and it's also showing signs of mold growth (white spots) on the other side of the plastic window. Screws and metal parts are probably rusty too...

Ouch! Sorry to hear that dude. I'd open them, clean them and pop them back in the boxes. MISB and MIB encore boxes look the same on display, what value is it to you to keep them sealed?

[FatalityPitt]

Ouch! Sorry to hear that dude. I'd open them, clean them and pop them back in the boxes. MISB and MIB encore boxes look the same on display, what value is it to you to keep them sealed?

Yeah, Thanks. I'll do just that - clean them up and try to prevent future rusting/mold growth. No point keeping them MISB when the toys inside are already spoiled. Plus, I can always put them back in the box, unlike MOSC figures.

[GoktimusPrime]

Who cares if it's not the biggest or who has what, just enjoy what you have and let others be
I don't care if he has the largest or smallest collection... what he's drawn negative attention towards himself for having done is making the claim that it's the largest in the world. If he'd just said, "I have large collection. I have 618 toys," then I'm sure that nobody would have called him out on it. If you are going to make a claim then you need to be able to back it up. This is known as Burden of Proof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)). And okay, it's just toys. It's not like other people making far more serious false claims like vaccinations causing autism and what not -- but it's a similar type of logical fallacy.


As for having polls on who's is bigger??? That says a lot to me
:mad: NEVER QUOTE PEOPLE OR THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) :mad:

The polls were never intended to determine "Who has a bigger collection," it was to determine what the AVERAGE size of a collection was. It explicitly states this in the bloody PREAMBLE (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=217). This was written to deliberately avoid people from making statements like that. :mad:

I referred to the poll data to support this guy in terms of how impressive his collection is. Because some people might think, "Oh, he only has 618 Transformers." 'ONLY' has? 618 Transformers is a lot!

You're objecting to other people giving this collector a hard time after he's made a false claim (and I wholeheartedly agree that nobody should be abusing him), yet you see it fit to give me a hard time by misrepresenting a project that I spent nine years of my life working on. "Just enjoy what you have and let others be," -- I begged for this during the last years of the census. Reminding people that participation the polls was voluntary and that if anyone didn't like it, then they could just walk away. I begged people to avoid posting on those threads if they objected to it. But it NEVER happened. Every year someone would get abusive and nasty... they would never leave it alone. This is why there has NEVER been a collection count census since 2014. My goal was to run these polls every year, like taking snap shots of the average collection size to give us a general idea of trends etc. But the haters wouldn't let it happen, and so I reluctantly buried the project after 2014. I actually was ready to bury it after 2012 - which is why there's no data for 2013, but I did the poll one last time in 2014 because it was the 30th anniversary of the franchise and it felt like a good time to end the project on once and for all.

But the project is dead and buried now. You can stop picking on it. But the data exists for the very purposes of why it was collated in the first place.

[Starscream77]

I don't care if he has the largest or smallest collection... what he's drawn negative attention towards himself for having done is making the claim that it's the largest in the world. If he'd just said, "I have large collection. I have 618 toys," then I'm sure that nobody would have called him out on it. If you are going to make a claim then you need to be able to back it up. This is known as Burden of Proof (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burden_of_proof_(law)). And okay, it's just toys. It's not like other people making far more serious false claims like vaccinations causing autism and what not -- but it's a similar type of logical fallacy.

:mad: NEVER QUOTE PEOPLE OR THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) :mad:

The polls were never intended to determine "Who has a bigger collection," it was to determine what the AVERAGE size of a collection was. It explicitly states this in the bloody PREAMBLE (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=217). This was written to deliberately avoid people from making statements like that. :mad:

I referred to the poll data to support this guy in terms of how impressive his collection is. Because some people might think, "Oh, he only has 618 Transformers." 'ONLY' has? 618 Transformers is a lot!

You're objecting to other people giving this collector a hard time after he's made a false claim (and I wholeheartedly agree that nobody should be abusing him), yet you see it fit to give me a hard time by misrepresenting a project that I spent nine years of my life working on. "Just enjoy what you have and let others be," -- I begged for this during the last years of the census. Reminding people that participation the polls was voluntary and that if anyone didn't like it, then they could just walk away. I begged people to avoid posting on those threads if they objected to it. But it NEVER happened. Every year someone would get abusive and nasty... they would never leave it alone. This is why there has NEVER been a collection count census since 2014. My goal was to run these polls every year, like taking snap shots of the average collection size to give us a general idea of trends etc. But the haters wouldn't let it happen, and so I reluctantly buried the project after 2014. I actually was ready to bury it after 2012 - which is why there's no data for 2013, but I did the poll one last time in 2014 because it was the 30th anniversary of the franchise and it felt like a good time to end the project on once and for all.

But the project is dead and buried now. You can stop picking on it. But the data exists for the very purposes of why it was collated in the first place.

Wouldn't said burden of proof be on those printing the record books? I would think yes.

As for your next rant please tell me who I quoted? I made a comment on polls, did I once mention a person or poll in particular?
Practice what you preach and do not misquote people, and really Gok I personally believe you take things way too seriously, this is a forum for blokes who collect plastic toys (of which I am proud to be)

[GoktimusPrime]

I believe that you misrepresented the purpose of the poll, of which is outlined in its Preamble.

As for the responsibility of Burden of Proof, this is explained in the saying, "semper necessitas probandi incumbit ei qui agit" which is Latin for "The necessity of proof always lies with the person making the claim." The Guinness Book would have responsibility in verifying and checking that the claim is genuine, sure, but it is also ultimately the responsibility of the claimant to ensure that his or her claim is true. For example, if I were to publish a book claiming that vaccines cause autism, then okay, my editor and publisher might share some blame in not checking to see if my claims were true... but the ultimate blame would fall on my shoulders for making such an outrageous claim in the absence of verifiable evidence. It would certainly tarnish my editor's and publisher's reputation mind you. This is why Andrew Wakefield was stripped of his title as doctor after publishing his paper on the link between autism and vaccinations - the medical association (and other doctors in general) didn't want to have their reputation tarnished by this one person's rogue findings.

I realise that I am using a very extreme example, and of course we are just talking about toys here. People have literally died as a result of Wakefield's claim, whereas all that this guy's done is stir arguments between toy-collecting nerds on the internet.

[Seraphim Prime]

I think there's a couple of interesting things with that story:

1. The guys has a solid collection for what has been something he has come back to later in life.

2. It would be interesting how the Guinness World Records chooses to count them. I remember an interview with Chris Sheedy (the only Australian GWR auditor) talking about how a part of their job is determining what is a worthwhile record, and then a system that is verifiable and replicable if someone wants to contest the record. (Perhaps there would finally be a universally accepted counting system :P)

3. As others have said, props to him for going on this endeavour to set the initial record, and as far as GWR would know it's the largest that they have been made aware of. However, there would be nothing wrong with someone else (eg: Griffin) contesting the record and then being declared the record holder

[Megatran]

It's no wonder he retaliated. He posts up something he was excited and proud of - being the first person to approach Guinness - and all the trolls came out of the woodwork to bring him down.
That is factually incorrect. Grubs live in the woodwork. Don't Trolls reside under a bridge or overpass? :p

[GoktimusPrime]

2. It would be interesting how the Guinness World Records chooses to count them.
I must admit that I'd be curious to see this too.

However, there would be nothing wrong with someone else (eg: Griffin) contesting the record and then being declared the record holder
Heh, yeah, a record of 618 toys wouldn't remain uncontested for long. :p
As I said before, I reckon that the world's largest would belong to either Harold Tietjens or Akiyama Fumihiko.

[griffin]

That is factually incorrect. Grubs live in the woodwork. Don't Trolls reside under a bridge or overpass? :p

Yeah... I actually wrote that at first (out from under their bridges), but it didn't sound right and might distract people from the point of the message. :o

[GoktimusPrime]

Comparing Bayformers w/ their G1 counterparts and how other movie-franchises' designs compare with their respective source material.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/comparison_franchise_zpscafqpbwp.jpg

[Jellico]

There was a x responds to y video that went around a while ago with kids being shown G1. Who knows how it was edited. Short version on seeing G1

Prime. Awesome.

Megs. How is that scary?

Bee. Woah. You have let yourself go.

[GoktimusPrime]

Megs. How is that scary?
Scary enough! (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=20265) ;)

[Jellico]

😀

It was food for thought. In the 80s the bad guys were reasonably attractive and achieved menace through actions and motifs. By the end of the 90s they had fangs and by the end of the 00s they were literal monsters.

I go on about how a toy has to contain the whole message about a character. At some point it crossed a line where a Decepticon badge wasn't enough.

[Ralph Wiggum]

I never followed the cartoons after G1, but has Transformers delved or come close to this whole concept of "gotta collect them all!" or "competition" style plot lines?

Basically I was building a Gunpla and looking into the backstory of what I was building (I don't actually watch Gundam, I just like cool robots), and found out it came from a series called "Gundam Build Fighters". Which to me was just this ridiculous concept of reducing the Gundam franchise to yet another competition style cartoon show.

I never liked that style of plot-line, including Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Beybladez, etc. I guess I'm from the old-school of epic good vs evil storylines. Characters blah-blah-blah-ing about stats, power levels, power-ups just feels like lazy writing IMO.

[Paulbot]

Yes. Transformers Armada, particularly the cartoon, has the Pokemon touch to it. For the first half dozen episodes the plot each week revolved around a new Minicon being found and the Autobots and Decepticons racing to be the ones that caught it. It was one of the reasons Armada was disliked a lot at the time.

[MayzaPrime]

I never followed the cartoons after G1, but has Transformers delved or come close to this whole concept of "gotta collect them all!" or "competition" style plot lines?

Basically I was building a Gunpla and looking into the backstory of what I was building (I don't actually watch Gundam, I just like cool robots), and found out it came from a series called "Gundam Build Fighters". Which to me was just this ridiculous concept of reducing the Gundam franchise to yet another competition style cartoon show.

I never liked that style of plot-line, including Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Beybladez, etc. I guess I'm from the old-school of epic good vs evil storylines. Characters blah-blah-blah-ing about stats, power levels, power-ups just feels like lazy writing IMO.

As people have said Armada was very much in line with 'catch 'em all' statement, in my opinion this also applies to RID as well.

[Paulbot]

As people have said Armada was very much in line with 'catch 'em all' statement, in my opinion this also applies to RID as well.

I was like huh, but then I realised you meant the current RID. And you're right, particularly since Fixit brings out his Pokedex each episode to give us the stats on the new Decepticon. :)

[Ralph Wiggum]

Ergh really? Glad I missed that boat. Thanks for the lesson, I hope by the time I have kids this trope is dead and buried.

[GoktimusPrime]

Ralph Wiggum: I highly, HIGHLY recommend that you watch Beast Wars. If you're going to watch just one post-G1 Transformers cartoon, then watch Beast Wars. Aside from having the best screen story ever written for Transformers, it is also definitely free from that "Get 'Em All" vibe that you get with Armada and other TF shows.

One reason for this is because CG animation is really expensive and Beast Wars had a relatively modest budget - one which was cut for Seasons 2 and 3. For this reason, the show only ever has a limited cast number. There are only a set number of Transformers who are on the show at any one time. And sometimes when new characters (and thus new CG models) are introduced, old models are removed from the show... often brutally. ;)

The CG animation may look dated, but bear in mind that this show is about 20 years old. More importantly, the stories are still really excellent. If you want to see a pretty visual spectacle, then go watch Bayformers (I'm serious - those movies do look really good). Beast Wars won't give you that level of spectacle -- they didn't have a US$200 million dollar budget. But what it'll give you is one unforgettable story. :)

[Ralph Wiggum]

Yeah I watched Beast Wars for a time when it first came out, but for some reason never got into it proper. Probably still feeling nostalgic for G1 and wasn't interested in the toys. I think I was way into Star Wars by then. But certainly what I did see I didn't mind.

[GoktimusPrime]

Holy crap, I can't believe that it's been 10 years and a day since the advanced Sydney premiere of the first live action Transformers movie! :eek: Still feels like freakin' last month to me. :o
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/Movie%20Premiere/movie_premiere2007_zps0aebeqbp.jpg

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

There was a x responds to y video that went around a while ago with kids being shown G1. Who knows how it was edited. Short version on seeing G1

Prime. Awesome.

Megs. How is that scary?

Bee. Woah. You have let yourself go.

I was talking to a kid I tutor about Transformers. He natuarally grew up on the movie figures and TF1 Movie op is hios favourite. We go talking about megatron and I showed him a picture of G1 cartoon megs saying "This is my favourite Megatron" his reply.

ださい - daggy. And - Looks like a Gundam. (I disagreed on this point rather strongly)
:(

Well, I guess he is in a way, G1 Megatron is a design from th e70s/80s.. so...He does have 172% more personality than Movie Megatron, that much is true!.

[FatalityPitt]

*Ugh*.. Having that moment when you contemplate whether to buy a pre-deco of a soon-to-be-released toy (RiD Blastwave) because you feel too impatient to wait for the toy that you actually want (RiD Bludgeon)...

[GoktimusPrime]

ださい - daggy.
Heretic. :p
I used to live in Saitama Prefecture, and my Japanese ex-girlfriend always used to call it だっ埼玉. :rolleyes:

*Ugh*.. Having that moment when you contemplate whether to buy a pre-deco of a soon-to-be-released toy (RiD Blastwave) because you feel too impatient to wait for the toy that you actually want (RiD Bludgeon)...
Uh, even Blastwave is just a redeco of Megatronus. I'm just gonna wait for Bludgeon. If I feel the "itch" to play with the mould then I'll just play with Megatronus.

[FatalityPitt]

Yeah I was just referring to myself in the 2nd person. Lately I've found myself wanting a Bludgeon that looks like Bludgeon, and I'm beginning to see Blastwave as a tempting substitute. Just me being impatient is all.

[griffin]

Uh, even Blastwave is just a redeco of Megatronus.

Only the legs, which are just the tank treads (the knees are also different, and the upper arms are the same)... so most of the toy is entirely new... and I think the attraction of Bludgeon is there because it best homages the Gen1 character of the three (even though Megatron was actually in the RID cartoon).

[GoktimusPrime]

Fair point. I am looking forward to getting Bludgeon, but not interested in Blastwave in the slightest.

[FatalityPitt]

Someone upstairs is REALLY trying to twist my arm into buying TLK Hot Rod. They got the actor who played Bishop in X-Men DoFP to voice him!

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/omar-sy-to-voice-hot-rod-in-transformers-the-last-knight/38570/

[DELTAprime]

Just placed my first order with TLTC. Fingers crossed this store can keep it's great reputation years from now as it grows.

[DELTAprime]

Just transformed MP5 Megatron from robot to gun going completely off a very rusty memory. I'm so proud of myself right now.

[GoktimusPrime]

Very impressive! :D
I can't do it without instructions. And swearing. Lots of swearing. Needless to say that I don't transform it if anyone else is at home. :p

[Ralph Wiggum]

Last time I did it without instructions, I broke his arm :(

[Deonasis]

I REALLY want to buy a MP05 ever since the new one came out. That pistol mode is so superior.

No need for a reply about comparing them - I am aware of everything sucky with, and NOT in, MP05's favour.

[GoktimusPrime]

MP5 definitely has the better looking gun mode and more chip-resistant paint! And it's half the price of MP36. As good as MP36 is, never forget that it's twice the price. So comparing the two is like comparing a Leader with a Voyager.

[DELTAprime]

I REALLY want to buy a MP05 ever since the new one came out. That pistol mode is so superior.

No need for a reply about comparing them - I am aware of everything sucky with, and NOT in, MP05's favour.

I think G1 Megatron has an even better gun mode because he has the silencer and stock accessories. Plus he's not stupidly oversized.:p

[Ralph Wiggum]

I REALLY want to buy a MP05 ever since the new one came out. That pistol mode is so superior.

No need for a reply about comparing them - I am aware of everything sucky with, and NOT in, MP05's favour.

*cough*

http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?t=22580

;)

[DELTAprime]

Just got TR Megatron from TLTC. I'm so glad to have a great representation of Megatron in Voyager size. Now if I could just shrink my LG Soundwave and Blaster to Voyager size my OCD about my CHUG display being scaled correctly would be satisfied.:p

[FatalityPitt]

So according to this picture (https://static.seibertron.com/images/toys/uploads/1498766459-sdcc6.jpg), Wolfwire is going to be the 4th figure among the wave 5 deluxes... I wonder if there's any running change to the design to fix the fragile cockpit hinge problem.

[griffin]

We've had photos of toy-swapping posted here in the past, but I didn't realise until tonight that there is even a page on TFWiki (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Toy_swapping), with some amusing (but disappointing) example photos.

[Megatran]

We've had photos of toy-swapping posted here in the past, but I didn't realise until tonight that there is even a page on TFWiki (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Toy_swapping), with some amusing (but disappointing) example photos.
This line says it all.

Some people are obscenely self-entitled douchebags.

Definitely can't point the finger at MISB collectors. :p

[Sinnertwin]

Definitely can't point the finger at MISB collectors. :p

That Soundwave repack though :D


Naw, we only have to deal with security tags and stickers, grubby fast food fingerprints and some other collectors deliberately crushing corners, boxes or cards.
Now that I think about it, it's far more difficult being a sealed collector :(

[Starscream77]

I think Hursti needs that Soundwave variant for his collection !!!

[Megatran]

That Soundwave repack though :D
Well, it is labelled as a 'Triple Changer', which is technically correct. :p

[DELTAprime]

We are getting close to having a complete G1 cartoon lineup (that's US lineup Mr Gok, not Jp:p) in the CHUG line. I know this makes me sound like a cranky old man at only 33, but I'm finding myself getting a little annoyed at some of the characters that have previously been released getting new moulds.

The United Jazz mould seems superior to the PotP mould.

I already have a complete set of Seekers using the Classics Seeker mould (well at least as complete as you can get since since Acid Storm was the only Rainmaker released, and no the guys from the first episode are not the Rainmakers despite what some marketing guy at Funpub says).

The only reason why I'll get the new version of Rodimus is because we haven't gotten a trailer version of him in CHUG, but really this is like the 4th Western release of him.

I know not everyone likes the mould but I felt Sky Shadow was perfectly fine with his Deluxe incarnation from a few years ago. I know that Leader is a huge upgrade over Deluxe, but he is so obscure does he really need a new version?

And lets not forget the bazillion Optimus', Megatrons and Bumblebees over the years.

Really I just want a mould for each character done right ONCE. Then give other characters that have never gotten a proper CHUG representation some time in the spotlight. I kinda want new representations of the Micromasters, Actionmasters and the Euro G1 characters.

[Jellico]

Well... for example chasing Classics Seekers at sensible prices is a case of waiting for people who started collecting earlier to sell one. Either that or eBay prices. In my case I am waiting for a Dirge to show up. So continually releasing popular characters allows late comers to have a chance.

Alternatively I want old characters for my kids in a form that can survive play. I love my Generations Arcee but what I want is something rugged like the Blurr mold so Windblade and Strongarm can have another friend at Megatron's tea parties. (Don't ask.)

[FatalityPitt]

Really I just want a mould for each character done right ONCE. Then give other characters that have never gotten a proper CHUG representation some time in the spotlight. I kinda want new representations of the Micromasters, Actionmasters and the Euro G1 characters.

Yeah, I see where you're coming from, but to be fair , it's still good to get those characters on more than one occasion in case people missed out on the first incarnation of those characters. For example, I only got back into collecting Transformers again in 2010, and by then I missed out on the Classics/Henkei Astrotrain and secondary market prices were unreasonable. Now that TR Astrotrain has been released, I now have an Astrotrain. I suspect a similar story to occur for someone who might miss out on MP Rodimus, TR Hot Rod, etc; but managed to catch the train in time for the PotP Rodimus Prime.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

We are getting close to having a complete G1 cartoon lineup (that's US lineup Mr Gok, not Jp:p) in the CHUG line. I know this makes me sound like a cranky old man at only 33, but I'm finding myself getting a little annoyed at some of the characters that have previously been released getting new moulds.
...
Really I just want a mould for each character done right ONCE. Then give other characters that have never gotten a proper CHUG representation some time in the spotlight. I kinda want new representations of the Micromasters, Actionmasters and the Euro G1 characters.I sort of agree, and definitely felt the same a few years ago. As a general rule I try and have only one version of each character and/or mold - it's a self-imposed collecting guideline to help keep the collection from getting too over the top. It's not a hard and fast rule, but it helps keep my spending in check. So, you know, one character done right once is perfect for me.:)
That said, these days my feelings on the matter have changed a bit...

I totally agree with you that the classic/'core' G1 cast has been done to death, and we should be seeing less well-known/more obscure characters getting some update love as well. That new PMoP Jazz looks 50 shades of meh to me, and I still really like my Animated Jazz just fine. But if HasTakTom can turn that mold into a decent Turbomaster or Aquaspeeder or Stormtrooper (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Stormtrooper_(G1)) homage, then sweet...I've got a new character for the Odieverse and I get to enjoy a new mold.

But...

That's me as an adult collector with years of collecting behind me. Of course I've already got an Optimus and a Megatron and a Bumblebee I'm happy with. New fans, not so much. So I don't mind Hasbro/Takara-Tomy padding out the line with new versions of old/oft-repeated characters. Plus, people like us aren't the main target market for most Transformers - we're a niche market, roughly 10% of sales IIRC. The main market for mainline TFs is kids, via their (usually not TF-fan) parents, and that means they need to keep Optimus and Megatron and Bumbebee on the shelves, plus a bunch of 'old' characters that mum and dad vaguely remember from when they were kids. It's just how they pay for developing new molds etc. If having a Titans Return Inferno means I can get an updated Hosehead, then I'm down with it, and hopefully newer/more recent TF fans can get a new Inferno of their own.

So, what I'd like to see is pretty much what HasTakTom are doing now, only more/better so. By all means, give us Starscream #500 and Wheeljack #12 in the latest line, but also make the pre/remolds decent homages. They're doing pretty well at it so far, but I'd like to see it a bit more targeted - if the Titans Return line gimmick was basically Headmasters, then why did we get Triggerhappy and Doublecross updates but no full-sized Nightbeat or Siren? There are enough fire trucks and police cars that it could have been done, even without remolding. OK, Squeezeplay as a 'crab-monster' thing might be a bit of a hard sell, but would it really have been that hard to change some parts and give us an updated Repugnus to go with Doublecross/Twinferno? Likewise for Terri-bull and Grotusque? Or, could we have had a mass-retail Toxitron from the Octone/Optimus Prime tanker-truck mold? Flywheels from Megatron/Blitzwing? Couldn't that Titan Master Flywheels/Skytread have been replaced with a Micromaster transport homage?

[DELTAprime]

Got my MP Dirge from RK one week after placing my order and I didn't pay extra for faster shipping. I wish all TF retailers were that fast with shipping their orders...

[Sinnertwin]

Got my MP Dirge from RK one week after placing my order and I didn't pay extra for faster shipping. I wish all TF retailers were that fast with shipping their orders...

Feels good doesn't it?

[DELTAprime]

Just noticed TLK will be available in UHD Blu-ray. I wish I could get some good movies like Star Wars and MCU movies in UHD Blu-ray. (take note Disney...)

[Paulbot]

So The Last Knight has basically ended it's cinema run (maybe one screening a day at a cinema near you if you're lucky) and yet wave one deluxes are still shelfwarming.

Boxing up deluxes to sell them at a higher "premier" price point doesn't appear to have been a successful sales technique. Maybe if wave one had eight toys instead of four it might have done better?

[Ralph Wiggum]

Just noticed TLK will be available in UHD Blu-ray. I wish I could get some good movies like Star Wars and MCU movies in UHD Blu-ray. (take note Disney...)

You may be in luck...

http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/dvd-bluray/ultra-hd-4k-blu-ray/49968/confirmed-disney-to-support-ultra-hd-4k-blu-ray

For me it's a matter of when, rather than if, I'm buying a 4K TV. With a holiday to the US in December and wedding in July next year to pay for, a 4K TV isn't exactly a priority. But I am buying my new movies on 4K blu ray for future viewing.

[UltraMarginal]

So The Last Knight has basically ended it's cinema run (maybe one screening a day at a cinema near you if you're lucky) and yet wave one deluxes are still shelfwarming.

Boxing up deluxes to sell them at a higher "premier" price point doesn't appear to have been a successful sales technique. Maybe if wave one had eight toys instead of four it might have done better?

That and I finally saw it last sunday the 23rd, I enjoyed it for what it is but I still need to use the list of bots in the movie provided by youse guys because I'm pretty sure I missed noticing some of them...

[Deonasis]

Combiner Wars, Titans Return, and Power of the Primes is looking like it will be my favourite run of modern figures.

[DELTAprime]

So The Last Knight has basically ended it's cinema run (maybe one screening a day at a cinema near you if you're lucky) and yet wave one deluxes are still shelfwarming.

Boxing up deluxes to sell them at a higher "premier" price point doesn't appear to have been a successful sales technique. Maybe if wave one had eight toys instead of four it might have done better?

With it almost entirely gone from cinemas it will likely remain the lowest grossing Transformers movie excluding the '86 movie at least until next years movie. I really don't like the chances that the HCU is going to do amazing things for Hasbro.

[DELTAprime]

Just watched some YouTube compilations of G1 toy commercials. I noticed that they advertised Predaking and the Dinobots in the same ad as adversaries. I guess with PotP they will get to face off again.:D

[DELTAprime]

I really want a Takara Legends Cliffjumper remoulded from the current Legends size Bumblebee mould.

[klystron]

I've just rewatched all the TF movies. Again.
I noticed that a plucky little tow truck saves the day in the first movie and in AoE.

Also noticed that in the first movie Mikaela rides a pale blue scooter. I like to think this becomes Squeeks from TLK.

Yep, too much time on my hands...

[GoktimusPrime]

Yep, too much time on my hands...
I've been stuck at home all day marking Trial HSC exams. Wanna help? :o

[SharkyMcShark]

Are we going to get wave 3 of the TLK voaygers at retail here?

Wave 2 voyagers have been at retail for 2 months now. We've not yet received wave 2 of the deluxes.

(I'm hella keen on both Scorn and Nitro)

[UltraMarginal]

I emailed Hasbro the other day and got this (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=570362&postcount=16)back

[SharkyMcShark]

I emailed Hasbro the other day and got this (http://www.otca.com.au/boards/showpost.php?p=570362&postcount=16)back

Thanks for that UM.

Looks like it's off to the internet for me on that one.

[GoktimusPrime]

Just made my second order from TLTC.

[AJ_Prime]

SDCC Optimus Prime - Voyager class, the paint apps I would like to have had on the standard TLK Optimus figure. As much as I'd love to get him, I can't justify $115 shipped for a figure that should be worth half of that.

Hopefully Takara bring out a version down the track that is similar but more affordable. Like they did with the AoE Leader...

[Paulbot]

Nearly 31 years ago I went to the Chadstone newsagency and for the first time bought Transformer comics - in particular it was two: #78 and #83, the prologue and part five of Target: 2006.

Today I went to the same store, which is basically still in the same location despite all the renovations, and bought a hardcover collection of Target: 2006.

:D

[Lint]

Nearly 31 years ago I went to the Chadstone newsagency and for the first time bought Transformer comics - in particular it was two: #78 and #83, the prologue and part five of Target: 2006.

Today I went to the same store, which is basically still in the same location despite all the renovations, and bought a hardcover collection of Target: 2006.

:D

Thats pretty neat I love being able to do stuff like that. It's good to see some things don't change (much) after 30 years.

[UltraMarginal]

Nearly 31 years ago I went to the Chadstone newsagency and for the first time bought Transformer comics - in particular it was two: #78 and #83, the prologue and part five of Target: 2006.

Today I went to the same store, which is basically still in the same location despite all the renovations, and bought a hardcover collection of Target: 2006.

:D

That's cool!

[GoktimusPrime]

When you put a toy up for sale, do you still consider it as being part of your collection?

I personally don't. As soon as I decide that I don't want a Transformer, I delete its name from my spreadsheet and remove it from my TF room where it's placed in storage. Reasons include:
* Means that I don't have to worry about forgetting which toys I have that are for sale.
* Also means that I don't have to worry about deleting that toy's name after sale.
* Helps me to emotionally detach from that toy (weird, I know :p).

But it also means that these toys are in like an ownership limbo. Like orphans waiting to be adopted. :p

[Borgeman]

I'd take it off the shelf and prepare it for sale, but I wouldn't delete the data first up. Rather I'd flag it as pending sale (highlight the cells in excel for eg), and only after it being sold will I remove it.

[GoktimusPrime]

Rather I'd flag it as pending sale (highlight the cells in excel for eg), and only after it being sold will I remove it.
That's too much effort for lazy ol' moi. :p

[griffin]

Hasbro Masterpiece Bluestreak found at a US ToysRUs, scanning for just 3 cents (https://www.seibertron.com/transformers/news/hasbro-transformers-masterpiece-bluestreak-003-at-toys-r-us/39426/)!

[UltraMarginal]

That's too much effort for lazy ol' moi. :p

says the guy with a spreadsheet detailing his entire collection:D:D

If I want to sell a transformer it goes in a box with others that I intend to sell. Taking something off display doesn't mean I'm selling it, since 90% of my toys are off display.

[FatalityPitt]

After updating my spreadsheet (where I document and catalogue my collection), I came to the sobering realization that I've spent $939.95 on Transformers this year (so far)... And that's just the Transformers... I collect other stuff too...

[GoktimusPrime]

I've spent more than that. :)

But honestly, as long as your collecting is financially sustainable then I don't think it matters much how much you're spending. As long as you're not spending so much on toys that you're having difficulty paying for other things like housing, bills, groceries, clothes, travel, entertainment - and for fellow parents, all the expenses that comes with having kids (schools fees, uniform, extra-curricular activities, books, toys etc.). My wife never complains about my TFs and I don't have to hide acquisitions from her because I only ever use my own disposable income to buy my toys and she knows that it will never financially affect her or our family.

Spending over $1000 on toys per year is fine so long as it's financially sustainable and you're being fiscally responsible. You can spend $500 a year or less on toys and it can be bad if you're living off instant noodles and struggle to pay bills. :o

JMHO. :)

[FatalityPitt]

Yeah, thankfully I'm not spending myself into destitution (yet!), and I'm still able to save about 15-20% of my salary after food/rent/utilities/hobbies/etc.

$1000 just felt like a lot of money when I saw it, and I found it amazing that in 2010, when I started buying Transformers again; I thought it'd just be a passing craze and that I'd only buy my favourite characters, then move on. 7 years later, I'm collecting nearly every Generations deluxe figure as soon as it hits shelves (even ones of characters I didn't even like as a child). I think I'm becoming a completist, hahaha.

[UltraMarginal]

Yeah, thankfully I'm not spending myself into destitution (yet!), and I'm still able to save about 15-20% of my salary after food/rent/utilities/hobbies/etc.

$1000 just felt like a lot of money when I saw it, and I found it amazing that in 2010, when I started buying Transformers again; I thought it'd just be a passing craze and that I'd only buy my favourite characters, then move on. 7 years later, I'm collecting nearly every Generations deluxe figure as soon as it hits shelves (even ones of characters I didn't even like as a child). I think I'm becoming a completist, hahaha.

When you sit down and think about it, it's pretty scary just how much can be/is spent on toys and hobbies. I have spent several grand this year, easily. it helps to stop and think about it maybe realise I don't need to buy everything I see. Which is good because I don't' think I could afford that regardless of my income. I was certainly a lot more careful a few years ago about which toys I did and didn't buy, or where I bought them from.

[Seraphim Prime]

When you sit down and think about it, it's pretty scary just how much can be/is spent on toys and hobbies. I have spent several grand this year, easily. it helps to stop and think about it maybe realise I don't need to buy everything I see. Which is good because I don't' think I could afford that regardless of my income. I was certainly a lot more careful a few years ago about which toys I did and didn't buy, or where I bought them from.

I'm sort of coming to this crisis point at the moment myself.

Renting a place with housemates, I'm quickly running out of personal storage space and noticing how much I have probably spent in the past year has been a somewhat sobering thought. And somewhat linked with a tendency I've noticed within myself to feel the need to collect "stuff" (ie - buying books/movies/CDs/Transformers more to say I have them than enjoy them)

I plan on being a lot more selective with Power of the Primes and any new movie / non-Generations line that they come out with. I said the same thing about RID2015 too...

[FatalityPitt]

I'm quickly running out of personal storage space and noticing how much I have probably spent in the past year has been a somewhat sobering thought. And somewhat linked with a tendency I've noticed within myself to feel the need to collect "stuff" (ie - buying books/movies/CDs/Transformers more to say I have them than enjoy them)

I plan on being a lot more selective with Power of the Primes and any new movie / non-Generations line that they come out with. I said the same thing about RID2015 too...

I know your pain. I live in a one room flat, and I have piles of MIB/MOC figures (Transformers/Marvel Legends/Figma/etc) that are literally stacked to the ceiling. Do a google image search for 'messy otaku room', and you have an idea of what my place looks like :)

I still remove some of my figures/transformers from the packaging to play around with, but I end up putting them back in their boxes (or in resealable plastic bags) if I don't end up displaying them. I've been contemplating throwing away the boxes and keeping everything in resealable bags to free up space, but the box to me feels like part of the product.

Yeah, looking at the stuff I've got this year alone and thinking about how much it cost is pretty sobering.. Then again part of me is glad that I've collected this stuff instead of spending my money in a couple other ways. For instance, I might've gone to a fancy restaurant and bought a $25 lobster dish, or I might've chosen to spend the $25 on a deluxe transformer instead. After I eat the lobster, it's gone and has zero value. But with the transformer, it's tangible and can be resold even after I've played with it.. Well, that's how I justify my spending habits.. :D

But you're right, it's good to be selective and buy things you'd enjoy rather than buy just for the sake of owning.

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, thankfully I'm not spending myself into destitution (yet!), and I'm still able to save about 15-20% of my salary after food/rent/utilities/hobbies/etc.
The extreme reverse of this will happen if you ever get married. :p
Almost all of your pay will go to your spouse for necessities and you get to keep the scraps. ;) But I keep saving those scraps and after some time it becomes a sizable pile of scraps that I can use to spend on toys without affecting the family budget. :D Kinda like being a monetary Womble (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esd2gfuHAZU). :p


When you sit down and think about it, it's pretty scary just how much can be/is spent on toys and hobbies.
Indeed. I've spent over a grand this year on toys and that was almost all at below RRP. I've only spent above RRP on one purchase which was MP Dirge (cos I got sick of waiting for a certain retailer :rolleyes:). One reason why I try to stick to my "Not Above RRP" rule is because collecting Transformers is bloody expensive enough as it is at/below RRP! :o :o


And somewhat linked with a tendency I've noticed within myself to feel the need to collect "stuff" (ie - buying books/movies/CDs/Transformers more to say I have them than enjoy them)
IMO this is the difference between being a toy collector and being a toy-hoarder.

e.g. Leader Class TLK Megatron looks like a really nice toy. But the truth is that I'm perfectly content with my Voyager figure that I enjoy playing with. The only reason that I'd get the Leader Class figure would be just to say that I have it, so... I just don't buy it. Same with toys like Titans Return Megatron, Optimus Prime (triple changer), Octone, Blitzwing, Astrotrain, Alpha Trion etc. - toys that don't personally interest me, so I skip them.

I did personally enter a Toy-Hoarder stage during the middle Unicron Trilogy era when I started buying almost everything including all the stupid repaints. It was at this stage that I basically slapped myself and asked, "What the hell are you doing?!?" as I realised that, yeah, I was buying toys just for the sake of having them over the sake of actually wanting or enjoying them. The act of buying those figures had overridden the act of playing with them.

And I think this is where the "Plastic Crack" term comes in. It's basically a form of specialised shopping addiction. Acquiring or purchasing the toy makes you feel good so you become addicted to that act, but after you buy the toy you experience a low and you don't even enjoy the toy that you've just bought. I realised just how ridiculously stupid this was, so yeah, now I just focus on buying what I actually want. People can tell me how awesome Leader TLK Megatron is, and I won't deny it. It's just not something I want to buy. It's okay to not want to buy something! :D :o

P.S.: I sometimes wonder when I see people who sell off loads of fairly recent toys (especially entire collections of recent lines like Combiner Wars)... was this all just one big series of impulse purchases? :confused: Cos to me, if I really like a toy, then I don't ever want to be rid of it. If I don't want to keep a toy forever then I just don't buy it. Hence why I rarely sell stuff. Most of what I sell is either because another toy has come along that's made it redundant or because I have a spare. With redundant toys it's because the toy was perfectly fine at the time of purchase, but later on something better's come along but I don't want to keep both.
e.g. I'm waiting for my Siege of Cybertron set to come in, so I'll be looking to offload my Titans Return Powermaster Optimus Prime toy after that. Now of course, when I purchased TR PMOP last year I had no idea that TakaraTOMY would retool it as Ginrai, or that Hasbro would then release it as Optimus Prime. I'm not clairvoyant. ;) TRPMOP was a perfectly fine toy when I got it, but it's just that something better has since come out and that toy will make TRPMOP surplus to my needs.

[UltraMarginal]

I certainly don't buy toys with the expectation that at some point I will be selling it. I do understand there are some people who will buy a toy, experience it and then sell it once they are happy they got to have that experience.

What I don't get is the 'hey guys please buy all this stuff I don't want to sell because I have a Dentist bill I need to pay for' mentality. I get that it's hard to pass up on stuff you'd like to buy but if you're living that close to the line perhaps you should reconsider. (I saw this in the last week)

I get that sometimes unexpected expenses come up but a single even if big bill shouldn't be putting you in the red.

I've always tried to be selective with what I purchase, knowing that more and more stuff is always going to keep coming out and if I don't like 'this' version of a toy/character just wait a while and there will be another version that I might prefer.
@Seraphim Prime, I know exactly what you mean. I wasn't going to buy into animated, then I went to the 2011 Botcon, now I have pretty much the entire animated toy line. I was also only going to dabble in the latest RID but here I am and I have pretty much every warrior class toy that's been released and the platinum grimlock & Bumblebee set. I do enjoy them though, so I guess it's money well spent, to a point.

I also buy a lot of CD's and Trade paperbacks and other books. I listen to music all the time and probably could stream a lot but there is something special about having your copy of something that you like. My Phantom comic collection is pretty much up to date but I'm nearly 3 years behind reading them simply because of the lack of time lately.

Both of my parents have been collectors of sorts over the years, neither throwing stuff out in case they needed it. so I have a horrible pedigree when it comes to keeping things I might not need. I'm very soon going to have to do a serious box cull. The problem I have, especially with Masterpiece, platinum, Hasbro/Takara special releases and 3rd party is so much of this stuff comes in stunning boxes and it feels like a real crime to throw away the pretty artwork. But at the same time, I'm never going to have enough space to display all that stuff so why keep boxes that are by far the biggest volume sink of a transformers collection.

back to the topic at hand, I buy a lot of transformers and related products and try to avoid buying stuff that i'll not want to keep later. I do find I will buy toys in a line with the expectation that they aren't great, just to see how they work. Crash combiners are a perfect example. They are a bit rubbish but the engineering is interesting. I bought one pair. Lets just say if the kids break this one in a couple years when they're big enough to play with it, I won't be devastated.

[FatalityPitt]

The extreme reverse of this will happen if you ever get married. :p
Almost all of your pay will go to your spouse for necessities and you get to keep the scraps. ;) But I keep saving those scraps and after some time it becomes a sizable pile of scraps that I can use to spend on toys without affecting the family budget. :D Kinda like being a monetary Womble (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esd2gfuHAZU). :p


Yeah, which is why I told myself I'll only marry after I retire from my action figure/transformer collecting; or at least when I'm able to restrict my purchases down to a Voyager class figure (or equivalent in cost) once per month. This is easier said than done of course :)

I actually used to be pretty conservative. Before Titans Return came out, I used to only buy my favourite characters in each line (or at least the most interesting). I'm proud to say that the only Combiner Wars Combiner I have is Victorion. Didn't buy a single deluxe or voyager from CW.. Although I did get the Ultra Magnus Leader class figure, but it was for a pretty good deal ($66).

I allowed myself to buy more Titans Return than most other lines in the past, mainly because the 1987 G1 characters hold a special place in my heart. I was only planning to get the original 7 Headmasters, then call it quits. But after I got them (except Brainstorm - he was later), I saw/heard about how good Hot Rod, Topspin and Triggerhappy were, and so I hunted them down. Along the way I developed an obsession with Getaway (Breakaway), so I got him. I would get bored on weekends and holidays and go to KMart to kill time and I'd see characters like Krok, Perceptor, Misfire, etc; and I'd think to myself "I had Krok as a kid, it'd be weird if I didn't get him" or "I never had a G1 Perceptor" or "I have $25 in my pocket, I hear Misfire is good so I might as well get him". Before I realised it, I had everyone!

I'm happy to have gotten these figures since they're of characters I either had or wanted as a kid. The wonderful thing about Titans Return for me was that it helped me relive some of my childhood and gave me better versions of characters I wanted but couldn't obtain as a child. But I don't think I'll be going this mad over future lines.. Or at least I hope I don't.. I like to think of TR as a special case.

[GoktimusPrime]

What I don't get is the 'hey guys please buy all this stuff I don't want to sell because I have a Dentist bill I need to pay for' mentality. I get that it's hard to pass up on stuff you'd like to buy but if you're living that close to the line perhaps you should reconsider. (I saw this in the last week)

I get that sometimes unexpected expenses come up but a single even if big bill shouldn't be putting you in the red.
100%. On top of paying for all the stuff you need to pay for, it also makes sense to have money saved aside for surprise expenses.
e.g. 10 weeks ago I damaged my own car when I overturned while exiting my garage. Obviously panel beaters aren't cheap, but I got it done.


after I retire from my action figure/transformer collecting;
:confused: I don't understand these words :confused:

[UltraMarginal]

But I don't think I'll be going this mad over future lines.. Or at least I hope I don't.. I like to think of TR as a special case.

I wish you luck, let us know how that goes:D

[FatalityPitt]

I wish you luck, let us know how that goes:D



:confused: I don't understand these words :confused:

Haha. Well maybe not to that extreme, but hopefully achieve a state where I can exercise more moderation. I'll definitely need luck for that!

I have an addictive personality, and when I get addicted to something, it can practically take over my life. At the moment, action figure collecting and Transformers is like my religion. When I'm not at work or studying for my CFA exam, I'm on forums like this or at the shops hunting for figures.

I'd also rather spend $25 on a deluxe figure than on a lobster dinner, and I can barely afford to go on dates after splurging on comics and figures.

I admire how people like you can run a family household and still have enough time/money for hobbies, but sadly for me, I don't have that type of discipline or astuteness. For people like me, the only way to cure an addiction is to replace it with a stronger addiction that trumps the previous... Or if the thing I'm addicted to becomes so mediocre that I quit out of boredom and annoyance.

Also, to top things of, I have a type of OCD which also affects my spending. An example (an extreme albeit simple one) - Sometimes if I buy an Optimus Prime figure, I feel compelled to buy a Megatron figure of the same line and scale, even if that Megatron is overpriced garbage. To me, any Optimus Prime is incomplete without a Megatron. And vice versa - If I get Megatron, I must also have Optimus. Even if I don't like a figure, I feel compelled to buy it because things feel...*ahem*.. wrong without it.

You can imagine it'd be challenging for someone in my current state to maintain a relationship, let alone a marriage :o

[Paulbot]

This picture was posted by Maz on his twitter
https://twitter.com/TFSquareOne/status/913155430418931713

What a glorious-looking toyline Titans Return is when viewed at once.


https://i.imgur.com/awvOG93.jpg

[UltraMarginal]

To me, any Optimus Prime is incomplete without a Megatron. And vice versa - If I get Megatron, I must also have Optimus. Even if I don't like a figure, I feel compelled to buy it because things feel...*ahem*.. wrong without it.

You can imagine it'd be challenging for someone in my current state to maintain a relationship, let alone a marriage :o

That's not necessarily a problem. I just did the same thing pre-ordering the MAS-01 and MAS-02, couldn't really have one without the other. I have no idea where I'm going to put them??

I'm not sure how old you are, but also keep in mind that Gok and I and many others on here are in our late 30's, we've had time to do the mindless splurging thing, and also realise that we want a bit more out of life than just a toy collection. It's also harder these days to collect a little of a toy line I feel. there are less uninteresting re-paints and many more interesting mould updates/repurposing than ever before, and lots more product being released as evidenced by the picture Paulbot just posted.
Decide on a spending budget, put it in a separate account. Looking at that smaller amount will help you to prioritise the things you really want over the things you might otherwise buy on a whim. it also helps to wait for a sale, if you're sure you want an entire wave of deluxes, waiting for a sale can allow you to spend 3ish deluxes worth and get 4 if you're patient.
just some food for thought.

The relationship thing is more complex, there is a relationships thread on here somewhere, not a bad place to go for confusing advice.:rolleyes::D but there are other nerds/geeks/collectors out there who will understand your interests and be a part of your interests rather than stifling your interests in preference to theirs.

Also, if I actually bought everything I liked the look of, it would use up most of my income I imagine, and my wife would either stage an intervention or take the kids and leave. And I wouldn't be able to open the door to the apartment. :D



This picture was posted by Maz on his twitter

What a glorious-looking toyline Titans Return is when viewed at once.

it is very impressive looking, not to mention a massive amount of product for such a short timeframe.

[GoktimusPrime]

Also, to top things of, I have a type of OCD which also affects my spending. An example (an extreme albeit simple one) - Sometimes if I buy an Optimus Prime figure, I feel compelled to buy a Megatron figure of the same line and scale, even if that Megatron is overpriced garbage. To me, any Optimus Prime is incomplete without a Megatron. And vice versa - If I get Megatron, I must also have Optimus. Even if I don't like a figure, I feel compelled to buy it because things feel...*ahem*.. wrong without it.
I can understand that. What is a hero without his villain and vice versa? ;)
I occasionally come across people who choose※ to collect only Autobots or only Decepticons and I just think... how the hell do you play with your toys? The typical response is that they just have continual civil wars. :eek:

---------------------------------
※I say choose because when I was younger I also knew people whose parents wouldn't allow them to collect "evil" toys for religious reasons. They constantly had Autobot/Maximal civil wars too, but it wasn't a choice for them. I knew a guy who came from this kind of family who had something very norti stashed under his bad... Harry Potter books and DVDs! :eek: (because magic = work of the devil). :o I even knew a guy who wasn't allowed to watch the Smurfs.

[FatalityPitt]

It's also harder these days to collect a little of a toy line I feel. there are less uninteresting re-paints and many more interesting mould updates/repurposing than ever before, and lots more product being released as evidenced by the picture Paulbot just posted.


Yeah, they're getting clever with they're retools. It's amazing to think that the Twintwist and Misfire moulds are derived from Trigerhappy in some way or another.



Decide on a spending budget, put it in a separate account. Looking at that smaller amount will help you to prioritise the things you really want over the things you might otherwise buy on a whim. it also helps to wait for a sale, if you're sure you want an entire wave of deluxes, waiting for a sale can allow you to spend 3ish deluxes worth and get 4 if you're patient.
just some food for thought.


Some really good ideas, especially waiting for sales. I always set aside 70% of my income for living expenses - food/rent/etc, 10% for a rainy day, and the rest (usually about 20%) goes to hobbies and entertainment. Sometimes I look at the 20% and think to myself "If I had let it all add up for a few months, I could have gone on a trip to South America, or bought a new car" Lol

Btw, I'm 31. So I'm not a fossil (yet!), but I'm not young enough to get away with certain things anymore :)



The relationship thing is more complex, there is a relationships thread on here somewhere, not a bad place to go for confusing advice.:rolleyes::D


There's a relationship thread? This sites got everything!


I can understand that. What is a hero without his villain and vice versa? ;)
I occasionally come across people who choose※ to collect only Autobots or only Decepticons and I just think... how the hell do you play with your toys? The typical response is that they just have continual civil wars. :eek:


(EDIT:Autobots and Decepticons are like yin and yang. It'd be weird to have a Transformers collection with one without the other.)

The most recent Megatron I got was the TLK Voyager, and after a few days of owning it; I went scouting for the Optimus Prime from the previous wave. All I found were Hound, Grimlocks and Megatrons. I think I'll see how long I last before I cave in and order it from eBay.

Sometimes, if two or more characters are related to each other from a story perspective, I feel compelled to get them all. Example; I wasn't going to get TR Brawn at first, but since I got the Perceptor and Bumblebee, and they were the main heroes in the G1 episode 'Microbots', I had to get Brawn. Then there's Brainstorm; I got LG-39 Brainstorm because I couldn't stand seeing TR Chromedome, Hardhead and Highbrow without a Brainstorm.. Funny how the cartoons still sway my collecting preferences..

[GoktimusPrime]

One thing that really excited me with Beast Wars was how, for probably the first time, there was a nearly even number of goodies to baddies. And in Japan (whereas I was living at the time) all BW toys were also available in VERSUS SETS! :D So yeah, almost every early BW TF that I bought was in a versus set. ;) Even after moving back to Oz, I still imported a lot of my BWII and BW Neo figures in versus sets. Heheheheh. :D

Machine Wars was the first vehicular Transformers line to have even sided factions, and indeed in Australia we had Machine Wars versus sets. Although unlike Takara's versus sets they didn't come in specialised boxes or with any bonus content like a CD ROM or play set. They were just two toys stuck together with shrink wrap. :p 'Straya mate! :D

[FatalityPitt]

Speaking of Beast Wars, I hope they do a BW Megatron during or immediately after PotP. The upcoming Leader Class Optimus Primal would be a lot cooler displayed next to a Megatron of the same scale. It feels like a while since we've seen a new BW Megatron.

[griffin]

Maybe they could resurrect their planned BW Megatron from WFC Grimlock toy (http://toys.tfw2005.com/megatron-beast-wars-3-7059)... which we saw a prototype leaked a few years back.

[FatalityPitt]

Maybe they could resurrect their planned BW Megatron from WFC Grimlock toy (http://toys.tfw2005.com/megatron-beast-wars-3-7059)... which we saw a prototype leaked a few years back.

Ideally it'd be Leader class to scale with the PotP Optimus Primal, but voyager is good too. I'd buy that BW Megatron redeco of Grimlock if it ever gets released.

[GoktimusPrime]

Cogman is such a laaame name for a Transformer.
If a Transformer came out with this name 30 years ago we would all be laughing at it, just as we laughed at the Machine Men's names in comparison with the Transformers.
F15 Man
Motorcycle Man
Tank Man
Buggy Man
Helicopter Man
Police Man
Submarine Man

But even those names are arguably better than Cogman because they describe what they transform into. Cogman doesn't transform into a cog! Even Tonka realised how lame these names were and assigned new names to compete with the Transformers.
F15 Man → Leader-1
Motorcycle Man → Cy-Kill
Tank Man → Tank Man
Buggy Man → Buggy Man
Helicopter Man → Cop-Tur
Police Man → Hans Cuff
Submarine Man → Dive Dive
etc. (I love how they didn't bother changing some of them :p)

You know a name is pretty lame when ever "Scooter" sounds better than it.

P.S.: I may have gotten some of the Machine Men/Gobot names wrong cos uh... I don't really give a skit about Gobots. :p

[Paulbot]

Presumably the name is what the humans called this alien because he was a man made of cogs (and the name Man of Iron was already taken).

I was thinking about names the other day, and wondered what sort of names the Trainbots would have got had Hasbro released them as an Autobot counterpart team to the Constructicons in 1985?

[FatalityPitt]

When I was a kid, I thought Insecticon (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Insecticon_(BW))was a pretty bad name for a Transformer. It made the toy seem so generic that I lost interest in it as soon as I read the name. Sure, there's Dinobot (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dinobot_(BW)), but the lack of a 'real' name was compensated for by the character's starting role in the BW cartoons.

[griffin]

This was something I thought about back when we first heard the name of Cogman... as in, it sounds soooo lame. But then, put yourself in the shoes of someone from the middle ages, before there was science - what would you call an alien made of machinery and cogs?
To be honest, it would have probably made more sense to be called Metal Man, as that would have been the only component humans at that time would have been familiar with (cogs would have been more from the industrial era anyway).

Unfortunately, the flaw of all this is saying that the humans gave him his name... when obviously he should have had his own name before he came to earth. Or if he was built here, the Cybertronians who built him would have given him a more Cybertronian name.
In other words, when and how did he come to Earth, and why would the humans name him... unless it was like a nickname, and he adopted it as his own name because he liked it.
This is the sort of unexplained element that an IDW comic would have explained, if they had kept doing movie comics.

[GoktimusPrime]

Unfortunately, the flaw of all this is saying that the humans gave him his name... when obviously he should have had his own name before he came to earth. Or if he was built here, the Cybertronians who built him would have given him a more Cybertronian name.
In other words, when and how did he come to Earth, and why would the humans name him... unless it was like a nickname, and he adopted it as his own name because he liked it.
↑This!

Also, "cog" just means 'tooth,' so in the context of Medieval language I'm not sure if the word "cog" would have an immediate connection with gears. :/ While gears have been around for at least 2500 years (in China), it was until the late fourteenth century that people in Western Europe devised mechanical gears with the advent of cathedral clocks. Although Islam did develop geared machines during the early thirteenth century and I suppose if there were any members of the Order of the Witwiccans who either went on the Crusades or had contact with a Crusader, that they may have had contact with Muslim technology. Gah... this is creating more questions than it's answering. :(


When I was a kid, I thought Insecticon (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Insecticon_(BW))was a pretty bad name for a Transformer. It made the toy seem so generic that I lost interest in it as soon as I read the name. Sure, there's Dinobot (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dinobot_(BW)), but the lack of a 'real' name was compensated for by the character's starting role in the BW cartoons.
I was in uni when BW came out and I gotta tell ya...

...I agree. :) I also thought that the use of sub-group names was incredibly lame. I still think it's lame. One thing that Beast Wars generally wasn't great for (at first) was names. They were pretty Gobot-esque in just describing their beast modes.
Cheetah Man → Cheetor
Rhinoceros Man → Rhinox
Dinosaur Man → Dinobot
Insect Man → Insecticon
Tarantula Man → Tarantulas (that's not a name, it's a plural!)
Tiger Man → Tigatron (they couldn't even call him "Tigertron"?)
Baboon Man → B'Boom
Mosquito Man → Transquito
Wolf Man → Wolfang
Wasp Man → Waspinator
etc. :o

But these names were devised by Kenner toy staff, just as the Machine Men names were created by Tonka staff (not sure if it was Tonka or Hanna Barbera who created the Gobot names - but Hanna Barbera characters often didn't have very creative names either... look at the Smurfs :p). G1 TFs had better names because they were created by Marvel writers like Bob Budiansky etc. I think Beast Wars names started getting better when Mainframe Entertainment writers (Larry DiTillio, Bob Forward) started getting involved. Because we know that it was their idea to introduce female Transformers and they asked Kenner/Hasbro if Blackarachnia and Airazor could be female and they agreed (hence why their tech specs bios use female pronouns). And of course, Airazor and Blackarachnia are arguably better names than most of the others. Hasbro did start making an effort here and there to create better names - Quickstrike, Air Hammer, Noctorro, Sonar, Scarem, Nightglider, Jawbreaker etc. It was hit and miss as there were certainly still some shoddy names too (e.g. Injector, Spittor, K-9 etc.).

I'm discounting reuse of G1/G2 names like Buzz Saw, Inferno, Jetstorm, Sky Shadow etc. for obvious reasons. I personally think that the best new name to come from Beast Wars was Depth Charge. :) Inferno would be the best reuse of an existing name.

But yeah, as incredibly awesome as Dinobot is as a toy and character, it's a pretty underwhelming name. It feels so... PlaySkool. Reminds me of the Go-Bots (aka Transformers Big Adventures) from PlaySkool.
Buzzerbot
Gorillabot
Beastbot
Dinobot
.....etc.

[SuspectimusPrime]

Cogman's a pretty weak name for a robot. My first thought was surname Cogman (https://www.ancestry.com.au/name-origin?surname=cogman), from watching too much Game of Thrones (http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Bryan_Cogman) :p

As a name for a Transformer, it doesn't suck as much as Abel (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Abel) and Jack (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Jack_(Headmasters)), but those were created by Japanese scriptwriters in the 80's.

On the topic of names, Dreadbot and Skullitron annoys me. It doesn't make sense for Decepticon to use the suffice "-bot" and an Autobot to use the suffice "-tron", unless both have compelling (or at least a faint residue resembling) backstories filled with intrigue (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Drift_(G1)), betrayal (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Wheeljack_(Armada)) and/or friendship (maybe) (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Greatshot) to support an allegiance change from Autobot to Decepticon and vice versa.

[FatalityPitt]

It doesn't make sense for Decepticon to use the suffice "-bot" and an Autobot to use the suffice "-tron", unless both have compelling (or at least a faint residue resembling) backstories filled with intrigue (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Drift_(G1)), betrayal (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Wheeljack_(Armada)) and/or friendship (maybe) (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Greatshot) to support an allegiance change from Autobot to Decepticon and vice versa.

Computron : Feel sad :(

(better than 'Compu-bot' I suppose)

[GoktimusPrime]

Whenever comparing Bayformers with the G1 cartoon, I'd like to bear in mind that the G1 cartoon didn't have a budget of US$1.8 million per minute.

[SuspectimusPrime]

Computron : Feel sad :(

(better than 'Compu-bot' I suppose)

You got me, we have to let that one slide. Compubot sounds too Disney, and Comperion or Compusor would be plain silly :p

[FatalityPitt]

You got me, we have to let that one slide. Compubot sounds too Disney, and Comperion or Compusor would be plain silly :p

The Japanese managed to eliminate the 'tron' in Computron's name by renaming him 'ComputiCON' or コンピューティコン (Konpyūtikon)... Not sure if that's any better or worse...

[DELTAprime]

Just got this month's Legends figures, I'm so happy with the current level complexity in the CHUG line. I like Legends Kup and Hot Rod more than the older United and Henkei figures they are replacing in my display.

[UltraMarginal]

I think most transformers names have sucked over time.
Prowl, just happens to be given a police car alt mode
hoist just happens to be given a tow truck alt mode,
inferno a fire truck,
bumblebee, a small yellow car
ratchet, the medic kind of makes sense that he'd be given an ambulance.
grapple, - grappling hook, a crane with a hook.
mixmaster - cement mixer
hook a crane
optimus prime, a prime mover
soundwave, the only recognisable piece of sound equipment from the era,

the names make sense in as much as they relate in some way to the alt mode but these 'earthen' words surely wouldn't have associated to their names/alt modes on cybertron. it'd be like every human working as a builder being called bob.

there are others that stand out like megatron, jazz, hound, starscream but they are the minority I think.

I've just accepted that in general transformers names are cornily related to their colour, alt mode or function.


Oh and I really dig the transformation on Orion Pax/Kup from the titans return line. the way the legs transform in particular.

[Jellico]

I think most transformers names have
ratchet, the medic kind of makes sense that he'd be given an ambulance.


Ratchet is also a cultural reference to a well known medic. Nurse Ratched. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurse_Ratched)

[GoktimusPrime]

After getting Magnus Prime I tried to sell my TR PM OP but didn't get any real interests. I've now decided to repurpose Magnus Prime as Ginrai in my fanon and keep TRPMOP as PMOP. ;) Magnus Prime is a canonical anomaly - even tfwiki can't determine exactly which character it's meant to be or if it's meant to be a new/unique character. There's conflicting information. But the plus side is that it makes it "fanonically flexible." People can just make it whoever they want to be. Okay, you can really repurpose any toy to be whoever you want it to be, but for me, having a toy that's canonically ambiguous makes it easier. :)

[DarkHyren]

I've now decided to repurpose Magnus Prime as Ginrai in my fanonI think this is the logical conclusion as well considering that the headmaster is called Ginrai and the only other figure that has a Ginrai headmaster is Super Ginrai. If the headmaster was called Apex, Hi-Q, Diac or even Refractor then sure I'd say "Magnus Prime" was meant to be another version of Optimus, but since he comes with Ginrai to me it seems like he's meant to be a version of Ginrai. Or if one prefers "American Super Ginrai" could work lol.

I dont think it's worth considering the idea that Magnus Prime is a version of Ultra Magnus like some people have suggested.
We shouldn't forget that in some continuities "Magnus" is a Cybertronian millitary rank (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Magnus_(rank)), not a name, the same as "Prime" is a rank within the Autobot faction (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Prime_(rank)).
So in this case "Magnus Prime" could just mean "Supreme Commander of the Autobot military, leader of the Autobots, and bearer of the Matrix of Leadership". It's definitely less of a mouthful to just say "Magnus Prime" :p

But reading John Warden's explaination (https://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/transformers-titans-return-product-reveals-news-updates-rumors-leaks-and-more--p1911385.php#p1911385) about the figure and its name seems to solidify that it's Ginrai, just "Americanized".
Anyway those are my thoughts on the identity of "Magnus Prime"

[Jellico]

:)
My daughter's RID Windblade gained a sister named Scorchfire ;)

Goodness know what I am going to do with TR PM Prime when PotP Prime shows up. There is a certain appeal to using Apex as the core of the Matrix.

OTOH I am looking forward to hiding Ptero and Clobber on Swoop and Grimlock somewhere.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Something positive...I've had a really good past month TF-wise. It's only been one or two things, but they've been great bargains on pieces that I've been looking for for a while and are a little hard to find these days.
It's a small happiness, but a pleasant one.:)

[GoktimusPrime]

Just registered an account with Mandarake because they do ship globally. Went to order a toy but far out... their shipping rates are expenseeve! :o Anyway... just asked a mate in Japan to order the toy to me. He'll just ship it normally at about half of Mandarake's cheapest global shipping price. It's good that Mandarake's web site is also accessible in English (I had to access that to register an account with a non Japanese address -- I normally view their site in Japanese but when I initially went to register it only has pull down menus for Japanese residential addresses) and it's great that they ship internationally. And their prices can be much cheaper than what you'd find for toys on the secondary market outside of Japan, but boy do they gouge you on shipping. :/

[Dinkydarth]

does anyone else feel that the current TR Voyagers and Leader figures seem to be a backward step in terms of engineering and articulation? I have Octone, Blitzwing and Sixshot and none of them have wrist articulation or ankle tilt. There also seem to be some tolerance issues with transformations not clicking into place nicely, and some parts not even clicking into place at all.

[DELTAprime]

I'm really happy. Got my shipping confirmation from RK for the HK reissue of MP36 Megatron.

#RKdelivers

[SharkyMcShark]

does anyone else feel that the current TR Voyagers and Leader figures seem to be a backward step in terms of engineering and articulation? I have Octone, Blitzwing and Sixshot and none of them have wrist articulation or ankle tilt. There also seem to be some tolerance issues with transformations not clicking into place nicely, and some parts not even clicking into place at all.

I have Sixshot and Megatron (same mold as Blitzwing obviously).

Sixshot is a mess. Given the price, it's probably one of my most regretted Transformers purchases in a while.

I actually really like the Blitz mold as Megatron though. I can see how the lack of ankle and wrist articulation would be more hurtful as Blitz, given that he has a sword and Megs doesn't. I don't own any other TR Voyager figures but the other molds have not impressed me at all.

I've spent a fair bit of time recently messing around with figures from about 2007 - 2011 recently (Transformers 2007 + sublines, ROTF + sublines, Prime First Edition, Animated). The drop in quality is depressing. Look at the complexity of engineering and sculpt that went into the average figure from any of those lines - TF07 Dropkick or HFTD Terradive for example.

[Dinkydarth]

agree completely. The engineering and articulation from a few years ago was much better. I remember being impressed with the Transformers Prime line as well as the generations line from that era. eg. Generations Deluxe Perceptor and TFP cliffjumper. I also regret getting TR sixshot - $72 bucks for what feels like an upsized legends figure!

[griffin]

A phrase popped into my head the other day at work, and it sounded very familiar but I couldn't figure it out until later in the day, which made me laugh when it became obvious...

"Ownage, total Ownage (http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Headmaster_(Animated))."

It's weird how such random things like that just pop into your head, and it takes a while to remember what it is from.

[GoktimusPrime]

Also interesting how that expression has become dated. If a new version of the Headmaster were to appear in Robots In Disguise (or whatever the next series is) I'd expect him to be saying something like, "Get rekt!" :p

[Trent]

Does anyone not like G1 Jazz? Is he the most universally liked TF character there is? I can't recall anyone, ever expressing dislike for the coolest of cool cats.

[UltraMarginal]

Does anyone not like G1 Jazz? Is he the most universally liked TF character there is? I can't recall anyone, ever expressing dislike for the coolest of cool cats.

Only people who don't like awesome don't like G1 Jazz. :cool:

[Paulbot]

Now that we know Jazz is a Trump supporter (https://io9.gizmodo.com/uh-is-this-transformers-toy-a-trump-supporter-1820555691?IR=T) I'm not sure I like him much anymore.

;)

[DELTAprime]

Just got my HLJ LG shipment from November.

I know Broadside wasn't a great mould in G1 but I'm really underwhelmed by the TR/LG mould. The best thing about the LG version is the body for Repugnus is included to go along with the head of Repugnus I got with my October LG shipment.

EDIT: Also I get the impression Hasbro and Takara are using at least two factories in Vietnam. Some LG items have the internal packaging held together with sticky tape, others use friction.

[GoktimusPrime]

I know Broadside wasn't a great mould in G1 but I'm really underwhelmed by the TR/LG mould.
As you've correctly surmised, TR/LG Broadside is held back by being based on a very difficult concept from G1. He's not a great toy but I think he's fine.


EDIT: Also I get the impression Hasbro and Takara are using at least two factories in Vietnam. Some LG items have the internal packaging held together with sticky tape, others use friction.
I'd say more likely same factory but different production line, just as they previously had in China. Occasionally you get toys with parts mixed up from their Hasbro and Takara production lines, such as my Universe Hot Shot. It was manufactured on the Hasbro production line but it has one panel from the Takara version! :o So somehow someone stuffed up and there was a cross contamination between the lines. But it's indicative that both Hasbro and Takara's toys are manufactured in the same factory in order for such cross contaminations to be even possible. :) I got this toy MOSC too - it came like that!

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

I just realised...for all that he's a pretty popular character, we've never gotten Legends-sized toy of Wheeljack. Or a few other G1 Ark crew for that matter.

[Paulbot]

It's the time of the year where I remember that I had planned to work on the Ozformer Awards throughout the year rather than trying to prepare it all in December :o

[UltraMarginal]

It's the time of the year where I remember that I had planned to work on the Ozformer Awards throughout the year rather than trying to prepare it all in December :o

It's that time of year when I get excited about the Ozformers awards coming up. :D

[FatalityPitt]

This could just be my wild imagination, but I've been looking at the PotP Voyager Starscream, and the alt-mode nosecone reminds me of Thunderwing's. Come to think of it, Thunderwing was famous for being a Pretender who held the Matrix. PotP has homages to Pretenders (as Prime Masters) and there's Matrixes (that the Prime Masters transform into), so it wouldn't be a surprise to see a new Thunderwing figure.

[Paulbot]

They could retool Starscream....But the gimmick of the leader class fits Thunderwing better - smaller robot with an alt mode being his inner robot and the combined larger mode being the pretender shell. Alt mode being the shell and inner robot combined mode of the original.

The character was also one of the options in that fan vote for POTP so it's a good chance we might see something.

[FatalityPitt]

They could retool Starscream....But the gimmick of the leader class fits Thunderwing better - smaller robot with an alt mode being his inner robot and the combined larger mode being the pretender shell. Alt mode being the shell and inner robot combined mode of the original.

That would be cool. So far the only leader class moulds they've announced are the Optimus Prime, Rodimus Prime and Optimus Primal ones. They've not hinted at any other leader class figures yet (at least not that I've seen), but never say never. I guess if they did a leader class Thunderwing, the only other character I can think of who they can retool it into is Star Saber - The common elements between them are their alt-modes (Sci-Fi Jets), and them being smaller robots who get bigger by wearing special armour (kinda sorta like Ultra Magnus)

[DELTAprime]

I hope Australia Post is right and the postage system will be back to normal on Jan 2. I really want my MP Sunstreaker ASAP. I don't want to be waiting weeks on it like I did for MP Soundwave, that was a super annoying delay.

I feel like Sunstreaker will be the MP since Soundwave, and Soundwave is still my favourite MP.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Went out looking for some TT toys in the shops. Rather hoping that they didn't adhere to the release date of dec 28th, sadly though it looks like the did.

Considering how this year the 28th of Dec is Thursday, I wonder why they didn't try and bring the release a bit sooner, I did see heaps of people queuing to buy Christmas toys in the shops, but the latest Transformers are the same boring movie designs, or Misfire and Doublecross. (assuming you can actually find Legends figures on the shelves that is).

I sometimes wonder if TT is actually selling the Legends toys, or whether they are just making a lot less.

[DELTAprime]

I did see heaps of people queuing to buy Christmas toys in the shops

Wait a second, I thought Japan didn't celebrate Christmas? Has Gok miss informed me?

Since Japan has only a 2% Christian population I'm guessing they don't celebrate it to honour the birth of Jesus but rather another reason. Kinda like how I celebrate Christmas as a bit of fun gift giving and a day off work and not associated with any religion.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

Well, its not celebrated as such, but that doesn't mean that people don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on stuff at a time of year that happens to coincide with Christmas.;)

Japan currently also has a growing "celebration" around Halloween as well. Essentially anything that can make money, will have some company promote it to drive that wheel

In the last two years, Disney and Universal studios Japan have been pushing Easter.

Most Japanese people have no idea what's behind Easter in any form. Just cute bunnies and chocolate eggs.

[DELTAprime]

Well, its not celebrated as such, but that doesn't mean that people don't spend ridiculous amounts of money on stuff at a time of year that happens to coincide with Christmas.;)

Japan currently also has a growing "celebration" around Halloween as well. Essentially anything that can make money, will have some company promote it to drive that wheel

In the last two years, Disney and Universal studios Japan have been pushing Easter.

Most Japanese people have no idea what's behind Easter in any form. Just cute bunnies and chocolate eggs.

Corporations trying to make money out of a religious holiday, I never heard of such a thing!:p;)

[Jellico]

The way a tour guide explained it to me is they switch between Shinto, Buddhism, and Christianity as needed to get through whatever life is throwing at them that day. Christianity mainly serves as an excuse for presents while the other two do the heavy emotional lifting.

[Ode to a Grasshopper]

Christmas is totally a thing in Japan. It's much like it is over here - by and large an excuse for buying stuff and/or getting drunk.
It's also a pretty big hook-up/romantic occasion for those who aren't already married-or-equivalent.

[GoktimusPrime]

Christmas in Japan is like Halloween here. Both are actually religious holidays but where the vast majority of the population don't care (or don't even know) about the religious meaning of these holidays and just use it as an excuse to spend money. Yay commercialism!

Actually Christmas itself isn't originally a Christian holiday either. It was several Pagan Holidays (i.e. Sol Invictus, Saturnalia and the Yule Tide (mid-winter solstice)) lumped together and rebadged as Christmas. Before Christianity spread to Pagan lands early Christians honestly did not know when Christ was born and frankly didn't care about it as it's an unimportant date for them. The more important date in the Christian calendar is Easter because that's when they believe that Christ gave his life for the salvation of mankind. Simply being born wasn't considered as an achievement at all... he literally hadn't done anything yet (other than crying and pooing as babies do :p). The Bible itself doesn't state when Christ was born at all. December 25 was set because it was the date of the aforementioned Pagan holidays.

So much of what people associate with Xmas - candles, carols, tinsel, gift giving, trees etc. - all come from Pagans. The Vikings^Norse actually believed that during this time of year, Santa Claus^Odin would fly around the world on his 8 reindeer^legged horse known as Sleipnir and distribute presents to all good children.

Jellico: Remember that Buddhism and Shinto are not exclusive religions like the Abrahamic faiths. Abrahamic religions expressly forbid intermingling with other religions. This is why some churches still refuse to erect Xmas trees, tinsel, Xmas lights etc. and generally just ignore Christmas, because it's technically all Paganism. The Vatican actually resisted erecting a Xmas tree for a really long time until they eventually caved in to public pressure. This is why you'll often see Shinto shrines right next to Buddhist temples. The two religions aren't mutually exclusive -- it's okay to practice both Shinto and Buddhist rites as the same time. And this mentality has spread to Christianity, where a lot of Japanese people have chosen to cherry-pick certain Christian rites without necessarily even becoming Christians. But technically this is frowned upon by Christianity as it is supposed to be an exclusive religion. The First Commandment states, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
"Hear what the Lord says to you, people of Israel. This is what the Lord says: Do not learn the ways of the nations or be terrified by signs in the heavens, though the nations are terrified by them. For the practices of the peoples are worthless; they cut a tree out of the forest, and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel. They adorn it with silver and gold;"
- Jeremiah 10

But yeah, even in Western countries like Australia we still have religious days that nobody gives a hoot about, like Halloween, Mardi Gras, Valentine's Day etc.

[Jellico]

Of course. ;)

My first thought went to the pagan Romans and their approach to religions. A wide pantheon offers an fascinating freedom to pick and choose. Of course is Buddhism even a religion? All fun and games.

[GoktimusPrime]

The Greeks were actually quite religiously tolerant and inclusive.
e.g. when Egypt was absorbed into the Greek (Macedonian) Empire, Egyptian gods were added as Greek gods. Serapis (Σέραπις) is a Greek god who's a combination of the Egyptian gods Osiris and Apis. Soon even native Greeks were praying to this amalgamated Egyptian deity. The Greeks even built temples for these Grecocised gods, some of which became secular centres for higher learning (essentially like a university). This of course was an important tactical decision for Alexander the Great because Alexandria (the one in Egypt) was a very important city for his Empire and he couldn't risk social discord by having religious conflicts. Consequently he simply allowed the Egyptian religion to be included with the Greek religion. The Romans consequently inherited these absorbed gods. The Romans even adopted Serapis without changing his name (which does sometimes happen, e.g. Mars, Apollo etc.).

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaanyway, back to Transformers... :p

This week my daughter's been watching Super God Masterforce. In the scene where Minerva debuts - where she's aboard a jumbo jet with her parents - she asked me why the passenger seats on the plane didn't have individual TV screens like on real planes. I explained to her that this show was made in 1988 and back then we didn't have individual screens! :D This blew her mind. :p

But then again... Masterforce is set in the future. Season 3 of the G1 cartoon is set in the year 2010 in Japanese continuity, hence why it's called "Transformers 2010." Now let's say that The Headmasters happens in 2011, meaning that Masterforce would happen in at least 2012. We definitely had individual TV screens on planes in 2012! :D So technically she was right. That plane should have had little TVs. :p

Just one of those funny things about how scifi writers try to predict the future and what they get right or wrong. They still use CRT monitors instead of flatscreens too. Another really weird thing... hardly anyone wears helmets! Motorcyclists? No helmets! When Buster and Hydra are flying their Transtectors without their armour on -- no helmets! In fact, the only time I've seen anyone wear a helmet that wasn't part of their suit of armour was when the Autobot Headmaster Juniors went hang gliding!

She also asked me if I had Minerva. I don't, but I showed her Nightbeat. She said that she doesn't care what the name or character is, she's calling it Minerva. :p Although so far she's only using the Japanese pronunciation, ミネルバ (Mineruba). I did briefly mention to her the different pronunciations of the name...
* Latin = mi-ner-wa
* English = mi-nuh-va

Haven't told her about the Greek name yet and of course the various ways to pronounce "Athena" across different languages. ;) Actually, what is the correct Greek pronunciation of Athena? Looking at how it's written in Greek (Ἀθηνᾶ) I would read it as "ah-theh-na," but I'm not entirely sure if I'm correct. Obviously in English we say "ah-thee-na," and in Japanese it's アテナ ("Atena"), which is also Athens.

[GoktimusPrime]

Has anyone else already started clearing shelf space for Power of the Primes? ;)

[CHILENO20]

Has anyone else already started clearing shelf space for Power of the Primes? ;)

Starting to make shelves more like it :rolleyes:

[Jellico]

I am thinking of expanding the Transformers toy box into Autobot and Decepticon toy boxes.

[DELTAprime]

I finally gave in and grabbed the UHD Blu Ray of TLK. I'll schedule a TF movie night for Monday to watch it. If it's as terrible as I think it will be I'll need to watch the only good TF movie (the one from 1986) after it as a palate cleanser.

[Paulbot]

Got some proof reading to do, but the Ozformer Awards voting form is basically done. Look out for it to go live this weekend!

[GoktimusPrime]

See here (http://otca.com.au/boards/showthread.php?p=435133#post435133) if any Sydney residents are interested in a free upgraded MP28 Hot Rod.

[DELTAprime]

Wow, I can not believe how dense and solid MP Sunstreaker is in vehicle mode and the incredibly high number of moving parts there are on him given his size as an MP car. Well worth the slightly higher price compared to other MP cars.

[DELTAprime]

And thoughts on the LG items in my package today.

Perceptor sucks but then again the RTS Perceptor he's replacing aint great either.

Octane is amazingly good for a triple changer. Only thing I'd criticise is the truck cab for jet engines.

Bumblebee is something Hasbro would never do. He's the original mould but almost every car part except the hood (that's the American hood) is cast in clear plastic and painted to match the colour of the yellow cast parts perfectly. Also the included Spike is the Hasbro Fort Max Titans Master remoulded to have Spike in his Exo-suit from the 86 movie.

And Slugslinger is as expected, but now I have all the Rebirth Targetmasters on the Decepticon side. (I'm being very loose with categorising Scourge in that group)

[griffin]

I sometimes wonder what the customer service desk staff are thinking, when they are accepting returns.
This doesn't look like an in-store theft, as both toys are still there, and the cardboard insert - so it would be unlikely someone would go to the trouble of removing the toys from the plastic insert (from under the plastic ties), and then just steal the plastic insert.
So we have a toy that was savagely torn open (bubble obviously ripped off the backing card), and then re-taped with just the two toys loose inside the bubble... and returned to Kmart to resell at full price (no discount tag, and they would have refunded the full amount).

Who would even buy this, without a significant discount, because even though the two toys are there (and have no accessories), you can't give it as a gift, and you wouldn't buy it for yourself as it could be broken (you certainly wouldn't buy it if you were a sealed toy collector).

Surely there has to be some sort of returns requirement that says it should be returned in an undamaged, re-sellable condition... and you'd have to be a blind monkey to not see that there is something seriously wrong with this product. Sure, it looks sealed, but how underpaid must you be to not care or notice that it was re-sealed, and they didn't do a good job re-sealing it.

http://www.toycollectors.com.au/blog/e868.jpg

[bowspearer]

I finally gave in and grabbed the UHD Blu Ray of TLK. I'll schedule a TF movie night for Monday to watch it. If it's as terrible as I think it will be I'll need to watch the only good TF movie (the one from 1986) after it as a palate cleanser.

I hear it may soon replace Joel Schumacher's Batman and Robin as a form of torture in some countries.

[Tetsuwan Convoy]

I watched Shin Godzilla last night and realised that in the Legends Trypticon comic, the giant monster mode is a reference to the starting form of Godzilla as it wobbles and gushes blood around Tokyo at the start of the movie.



. He's the original mould but almost every car part except the hood (that's the American hood) is cast in clear plastic and painted to match the colour of the yellow cast parts perfectly.
I disagree on this point. Depending on the light, you can see a difference in the yellow. It's a close fit, but not perfect. I wonder why his head is clear plastic though... Spike is great.

[bowspearer]

Ok, so I just discovered why you shouldn't accidentally type an f in front of tfu.info - VERY NSFW heh.