The Doctor Who thread

[Golden Phoenix]

Well, all my female friends that like the show have all at one point drooled over one or the other of the last 3 Doctors (mostly the first two) so maybe it's the boys turn. And it would certainly add an extra dimension to all these female companions that constantly flirt with the Doc or go in for the pash ;) I mean considering the companions and the doc are different species, a little thing like being the same gender should just be a triviality!

We get all the companions to drool over.

Although with a female Doctor, it would make the River-Doctor relationship more interesting :D

[GoktimusPrime]

Although with a female Doctor, it would make the River-Doctor relationship more interesting :D
Giggity-giggity! ;)

Also, in the future people (like Jack Harkness) become omnisexual; i.e. there are no bounds to who they may be attracted to and they freely have relations with other genders and even sapient species. That's why we see Jack flirt with Rose and later had a thing with Ianto Jones in Torchwood.

[SMHFConvoy]

Giggity-giggity! ;)

Also, in the future people (like Jack Harkness) become omnisexual; i.e. there are no bounds to who they may be attracted to and they freely have relations with other genders and even sapient species. That's why we see Jack flirt with Rose and later had a thing with Ianto Jones in Torchwood.

Considering Ianto's fate in the Children of Earth miniseries (watch it, it's bloody good) I would hardly class Jack and Ianto's relationship as a, "thing." :)

[Burn]

...yeah, I wouldn't like to see it done for those reasons. It should be done for more legitimate scifi reasons. Maybe make him an androgenous blue humanoid. ;)

That raises an interesting point.

When he regenerates, he can change his look. Even though the insides would remain the same, what's stopping him from changing his outer looks to be more "alien"?

There's always been a symbiotic type relationship between Time Lords and Tardises, (Tardii?) why can't they both have chameleon circuits? :D

[SMHFConvoy]

That raises an interesting point.

When he regenerates, he can change his look. Even though the insides would remain the same, what's stopping him from changing his outer looks to be more "alien"?

There's always been a symbiotic type relationship between Time Lords and Tardises, (Tardii?) why can't they both have chameleon circuits? :D

He could've been using a perception filter this whole time! :eek:

[snaketales]

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/whats-on/film-tv/rare-doctor-who-episodes-rumoured-4571617

Please don't let this be a Nigerian scam

Please don't let this be a Nigerian scam

Please don't let this be a Nigerian scam

[Paulbot]

I've been following this on BleedingCool who reported the rumours earlier this week.

Their latest update: is Doctor Who Episodes – “THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END” (http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/06/20/doctor-who-episodes-they-are-not-missing-but-destroyed-the-end/)


Film archivist Philip Morris of the Television International Enterprise Archive, who has spent decades travelling the world looking for… lets call it “insecure media”, has issued the following statement, regarding his believed involvement in the recovery of a large amount of missing Doctor Who episodes.

Much of it is is capitals.

A BRIEF STATEMENT .
T.I.E.A DOES NOT HOLD ANY MISSING EPISODES OF THE LONG RUNNING DR WHO SERIES. THE ORIGINAL VIDEO TAPES WERE WIPED SUBSEQUENT FILM COPIES WERE EITHER RETURNED TO THE BBC AND SENT TO LANDFILL ODD FRAGMENTS HAVE SURFACED TWO EPISODES ON 16MM FILM BUT THATS IT. THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION LIKE MANY OTHERS WERE DESTROYED AS THEY HAD NO FURTHER COMMERCIAL VALUE .THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END.I am sorry if this upsets some people but these are the facts.I have also become aware of the tracking of some of our clients shipments these are local cultural materials sent to us for migration to a modern format as the playback equipment in the country of origin no longer exists and as such is the best road to preserve international cultural heritage .I will be making no more statements on this subject.Philip MORRIS Executive director T.i.e.a

[snaketales]

:(

One good solid hope's worth a cartload of certainties.....

[GoktimusPrime]

John Barrowman (Jack Harkness) got married! :D
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2354481/John-Barrowman-marries-long-term-partner-Scott-Gill-In-California.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

[Paul Agnew]

Considering Ianto's fate in the Children of Earth miniseries (watch it, it's bloody good) I would hardly class Jack and Ianto's relationship as a, "thing." :)

It was certainly more than a 'thing'. Their relationship involved a stopwatch. ;)

[Demonac]

If anyone Melbourne based is interested, the Astor is showing the 2 Peter Cushing Dr. Who movies on Saturday the 3rd.

Details here. (http://astortheatreblog.wordpress.com/2013/07/29/dalek-invasion-saturday-august-3rd-7-30pm/)

[GoktimusPrime]

So... is anyone gonna get up to watch the introduction of the Twelfth Doctor at 04:00 Monday morning?!? :rolleyes:

[SMHFConvoy]

So... is anyone gonna get up to watch the introduction of the Twelfth Doctor at 04:00 Monday morning?!? :rolleyes:

Nah, it'll be all over the net by the time I'm catching the bus to work, I'll look it up then.

[GoktimusPrime]

For those who didn't stay/wake up to watch it, "The Next Doctor" is available on ABC iView and it will also be rerun at 20:30 tonight. :) I didn't see it, so I'll most likely catch the rerun tonight.

[Paulbot]

It's not really worth watching, except for the last five minutes. My fast forward button got a good work out.

[CBratron]

About time they ditched the teen heartthrobs for an actor who has depth.
I know it's weird that I'm celebrating actors who can act in a series characterised by it's charmingly cheesy acting.

[GoktimusPrime]

My thoughts...

+ As some of you may recall, Capaldi has previously appeared in Doctor Who before as Lucius Caecilius Iucundus (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Iucundus) (who was actually a real person (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Iucundus) who lived in 1st Century Pompeii) in "The Fires of Pompeii."
(medicus est in Tardis??)

+ Capaldi is the third Scotsman to play the Doctor. Previous Scots being Sylvester McCoy and David Tennant as the Seventh and Tenth Doctors respectively.

+ Capaldi may be the first actor to finally almost break the straight run of the Doctor being played by Anglo-Celts, as Capaldi is half Italian. It's been noted by fans that there's no reason why the Doctor needs to keep looking like an Anglo-Celtic male in all of his incarnations -- his regeneration process could make him look like any ethnicity (or even one that doesn't exist on Earth; he could be blue!), and of course he doesn't have to always be male (the Twelfth Doctor (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_LP_YP0I7zZY/S0X5lbtqt6I/AAAAAAAADZg/-1Zzw3k_UaI/s400/whonotwho-10.png) was a woman in the non-canonical "Curse of the Fatal Death").

+ Will Capaldi be the final Doctor? Or does the law of twelve regenerations no longer exist without the Council to enforce it? Part of me would rather they stick to the 12 regeneration rule, and after Capaldi leaves the show introduce a whole new character (not just actor) as the Doctor. I'd bring Georgia Moffat back as Jenny ("The Doctor's Daughter"); or if she's not available, a new actress who would be the second incarnation of Jenny. Jenny who would inherit the name of the Doctor upon the death of the Twelfth Doctor. She would also inherit his Tardis and go travelling on new adventures. Subsequent regenerations could try to introduce greater diversity -- don't always keep her as a white woman, writers should feel free to make the new Doctor into whatever ethnic appearance or gender they wish. Let the auditions decide... usually when they do a casting call they ask agencies to give them a person that fits certain criteria; this is something that actor Neil Kaplan always says is the great thing about voice acting; that's it's far less discriminatory than screen acting because it doesn't matter what you look like, only what you sound like. ;) If the best actor/actress auditioning happens to be an Anglo-Celtic male, then so be it -- but by 'liberating' themselves from that "rule," then anyone could be the next Doctor. And by doing it with a "new" Doctor rather than the current Doctor, it would be less likely to upset fans since it's not the same character, and Dr Who canon has established that Time Lords (or humans w/ Time Lord properties like River Song) are able to change ethnic appearances (e.g. River Song) and gender (e.g. the Corsair) during their regenerations. There's no reason why Jenny couldn't do it (and she'd only be calling herself "the Doctor" so it's not as if there's gonna be a bloke running around with the name "Jenny"... although they could have a lot of fun w/ that :p ;)). But maybe that'd be too radical for most audience members... so I suspect that they'd end up tweaking the Rule of 12 to allow the Doctor more regenerations. :o

[Paulbot]

The Doctor himself explained, very recently, he could change 507 times (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vL4g7wK6kk). But no let's forget this, canon, piece of information shall we? Right. Is there a GeeWun equivalent for Whovians? :p

Demonac's mention of the Peter Cushing movies made me think it would be funny if we found out that John Hurt's character, someone intentionally forgotten about by the Doctor, was the one who pretended to be a human scientist and fought the Daleks etc. It'd be a nice way of bringing those movies back into play.

[GoktimusPrime]

1. I've never claimed to be a Whovian.
2. The line was said so quickly amid a hurried conversation with background music playing. it's easy to miss. I usually watch each episode just once when it airs. I don't usually rewatch them.
3. I also find the jovial music distracting; even after following that link I only barely noticed the Doctor saying that -- and that was because I knew what to listen out for.

[Paulbot]

It is a bit hard to hear on the youtube clip, but when I watched it on TV I didn't have any trouble noticing what he said. The 11th Doctor often speaks fast. But anyway it's not just you. All over the net there's people saying there can only be a certain number of regenerations based on some old episode(s?) or the other and neglecting the Sarah Jane ep. Which I also find odd because that particular Sarah Jane story was actually of special appeal to long term Doctor Who fans for being a reunion of the Doctor and a favourite companion from the "good old days".

And there must be a GeeWun type term in that fandom though surely? People who insist the show was better before it came back.

[GoktimusPrime]

I didn't watch Sarah Jane. I know the type of fan you're talking about though -- some of my colleagues are like that. But then there's the fan on the other end of the spectrum who seem to be ignorant of anything that came before the Ninth Doctor (sometimes ignorant of anything that came before the Tenth!).

I personally think there's pros and cons with both pre and post new-age Dr Who. To me the Old Age Doctor was more of a scifi sleuth notorious for terrible looking visual effects, whereas the new one is more of an action hero with astounding state-of-the art special effects. I like both formats of the show for their different strengths. Although I wish the show would go back to having more "stand alone" episodes and not necessarily have every series be one long-spanning epic story arc. One thing that I preferred with the older series was the format of having more compact mini-arcs that are more easily digestable for casual viewers like myself. :o jmho

[Gutsman Heavy]

The solid gold butt-hurt that has come out of the new Doctor being "old" is absolutely delicious.

[Hursticon]

The solid gold butt-hurt that has come out of the new Doctor being "old" is absolutely delicious.

Really? - There are people offended by the fact that an older actor is to be the next Doctor? :confused:, I guess there's a bunch in every fandom huh? :rolleyes::p

[Gutsman Heavy]

Really? - There are people offended by the fact that an older actor is to be the next Doctor? :confused:, I guess there's a bunch in every fandom huh? :rolleyes::p

http://youtu.be/RzWOlMif-Fw

This was my favorite, the twitter compilations are also pretty funny.

[snaketales]

Ya-hooooo, I finally got my Power of the Daleks Reconstructed CD to work again!!!!!

[Ryathalas]

very disappointed character options changed the scale of the doctor who figures for the last Matt Smith series which btw are available at ABC stores

[jazzcomp]

Let's see how an old doctor appeals to the younger fandom. Can he still run? :rolleyes: Or will he behave like the old Master who dislikes his deteriorating body? :eek:

[Ryathalas]

the old doctor will kill off all the tweeny bopper david tennant fans lol:) my fave's still tom baker

[MayzaPrime]

the old doctor will kill off all the tweeny bopper david tennant fans lol:) my fave's still tom baker

Hey I like Tennant's Doctor and I'm not a tweeny bopper, thats so 90s ;)

[snaketales]

Ya-hooooo, I finally got my Power of the Daleks Reconstructed CD to work again!!!!!

....and I finally figured out how to watch the Shada webcast animation that was included in the Legacy boxset!

Amazing the things you can do when you're bored....

[Hursticon]

Dudes! :eek:

ABC iView (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/drama/sci-fi) has episodes of the 1st Doctor available for viewing! :D Check out: Doctor Who - The Daleks: Ep 1 "The Dead Planet" (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/42847). :cool:

This is SO wicked!, I've never seen a complete episode of the 1st Doctor before, outside of screens-caps! :eek::D

[CBratron]

I miss the old episode format. Every schoolday (except Fridays) as soon as I'd get home. I'd watch these.

[Paul Agnew]

They (almost) found The Web Of Fear! And completed Enemy Of The World too! :eek: (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/10/nine-troughton-episodes-recovered.html)

[snaketales]

They (almost) found The Web Of Fear! And completed Enemy Of The World too! :eek: (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/10/nine-troughton-episodes-recovered.html)

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

why couldnt it have been ep 4 of the tenth planet?

[Paul Agnew]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

why couldnt it have been ep 4 of the tenth planet?

Because there's an upcoming DVD release to push, and they didn't want to push aside all the hard work Planet 55 did reconstructing the episode only for it to turn up on the eve of the 'complete' release.

Last thing needed is another Loose Cannon DMP fiasco. :p

[snaketales]

Actually I'm quite looking forward to seeing ep6 of Enemy of the World - always wanted to see the Doctor/Salamander confrontation

[Hursticon]

They (almost) found The Web Of Fear! And completed Enemy Of The World too! :eek: (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/10/nine-troughton-episodes-recovered.html)

Bloody excellent news huh? :)

Can't wait to checkout more of the 1st three Doctors, specifically Hartnell & Thoughton as they're the 2 I'm least familiar with... Come to think of it, numbers 5 through 8 I'm pretty unfamiliar with too! :p:D

[griffin]

So when it was claimed a few months ago that some lost episodes were found in Nigeria... it was actually true, and not some unusual Nigerian scam.

It surprises me that almost 100 episodes are missing. I didn't realise it was that much.
Considering there are about 800 episodes, that's over 10%. (I guess it's less than 10% if you go by hours, as most episodes were 30 minutes, but are now hour long)

[snaketales]

It is mainly season 3 and 4 suffering from missing episodes (last year of Hartnell/first of Troughton).
Season 5 was also bad until this excellent news :D

[griffin]

So... I had boycotted the 11th Doctor when it was being aired over the last 3 years (because I couldn't stand him, acting so young and hyperactive for a 900 year old mind - I guess after 30 years of watching and reading almost every story that still exists, this was one Doctor that didn't fit the character in my mind).
Now that it has been airing every weeknight on Channel 22, I decided to watch them all... so that I have at least seen them once, before the new one comes along and I can just ignore this dark chapter of Doctor Who. :p

Anyway, after that little ramble... SPOILERS for anyone else who hasn't seen the last two seasons.


The relationship between River and the Doctor - I wonder if they will feature their "first" encounter and courtship (and marriage) in a future season... perhaps as a season arc with her being his sole travelling companion over a season or two, covering a period of several years in his timeline.
But then, I wonder how or why he would then end their relationship in his timeline, so that she can be then be on her own when running into him before their marriage (in her timeline). Maybe it isn't something they want to deal with, and will just leave it as an unfilmed chapter of his life (he's certainly had a significant portion of his 900+ years not documented by episodes or books).

[Paulbot]

Anyway, after that little ramble... SPOILERS for anyone else who hasn't seen the last two seasons.


The relationship between River and the Doctor - I wonder if they will feature their "first" encounter and courtship (and marriage) in a future season... perhaps as a season arc with her being his sole travelling companion over a season or two, covering a period of several years in his timeline.
But then, I wonder how or why he would then end their relationship in his timeline, so that she can be then be on her own when running into him before their marriage (in her timeline). Maybe it isn't something they want to deal with, and will just leave it as an unfilmed chapter of his life (he's certainly had a significant portion of his 900+ years not documented by episodes or books).
So what episode are you up to? You've already seen the Doctor meet River for the first time (since you watched the 10th Doctor stories) and "Spoilers, sweetie": when you're completely up to date you might find you've got answers to most of these questions.

[griffin]

The episode yesterday was the start of his second season (the Impossible Astronaut), which is the season that looks to focuses on River's identity as the main story arc.
I read a little bit of her character (on a wiki while having a look at who Amy and Rory were) when the 11th Doctor episodes started playing 3 weeks ago - and since I'm not too invested in this era, it didn't "spoil" anything for me... it has probably made this second season easier to watch now that I know some of what is going on (this 2-part opener for his second season were 2 of about 6 of his 42 episodes I did watch when they first aired, but had too many mystery elements (for later in the season to answer), which made it more confusing to follow).
I guess the title of the last episode of his second season should have given the answer to my question... but it just seems a little too quick. There must be a lot of exclusive time spent together (married or not) that is not documented on the show for her to know his name, have a very full diary, and know how to fly a tardis (properly). I guess in two weeks when this season is done, I will hopefully have my answers.

[Paulbot]

Yes, season two, particularly the second half, does explain a lot of stuff about River Song.

[Hursticon]

Have been watching all of the episodes that ABC's iView streaming service has been offering (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/drama/sci-fi), in the lead up to the 50th Anniversary. :cool:

I'm currently up to the 3rd Doctor's "The Sea Devils" story ;); it's great having a chance to checkout these top-voted (By the public) stories from Doctors I've not seen before :o, I actually quite like Patrick Troughton's iteration :) & it's such a shame that many of his stories are lost to the void of time. :(

[griffin]

On the weekend they had a "Doctor Who explained" doco... that was quite interesting, as there were quite a few old doctors and companions interviewed, plus the guy who does the dalek voice.
It was pretty recent too, as it even had a spoiler for the next episode.
It's probably on the ABC website somewhere, for those who missed it.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Watched the Doctor Who tonight where they bunged a billion little black boxes all over earth that gave folk heart attacks.

Is it me, or does the inter-dimensional spaceship they hailed from look a helluva lot like the Nemesis?

[snaketales]

Finally got to see The Tenth Planet on dvd... was happy to see both recon versions of episode 4 were included. I prefer the VHS recon (which incorporates what footage can be found) but I think my kids preferred the animated version. My nine-year-old started talking like these Cybermen in THEIR sing-SONG voice AFter watchING it.

Fan moment: a lot of fan reviews go on about how great it was the fifth Doctor fights off his regeneration for a while in Caves of Androzani, but it seems to me the first Doctor does the same thing in the Tenth Planet. He passes out in ep 3 then rallies for the first half of ep 4. (yes I am aware of the real-world explanation for this).

I guess this gets overlooked because the first Doctor isn't as proactive in his final story as the fifth is in his.

[Autocon]

Anyone going to hoyts or event cinemas to view the 50th anniversary episode? It will be played the day after it airs on television, some in 3D.

[Hursticon]

Anyone going to hoyts or event cinemas to view the 50th anniversary episode? It will be played the day after it airs on television, some in 3D.

I'd love to do that, it'd be cool but I'd literally be going with me, myself & I - So I'll stick with the televised airing. ;):cool:

[Hursticon]

Two hours ago, the BBC delivered one of the most astounding Doctor Who 50th Anniversary surprises in; "Doctor Who - The Night of The Doctor: A Mini Episode (http://youtu.be/-U3jrS-uhuo)". :eek::eek::eek:
Might I say too, what an amazingly unexpected and brilliantly executed 6 minutes & 49 seconds it is... was... it's relative. ;)


I thought I might take the time to also post links to ABC iview (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#)'s current offerings, in celebration of the Doctor's 50th :D:
(Remember; ABC iView is a 100% free streaming service available on a multitude of platforms ;):))

Doctor Who: An Unearthly Child (The 1st Doctor: William Hartnell)

Episode 1 - An Unearthly Child (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74448526)
Episode 2 - The Cave of Skulls (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74448528)
Episode 3 - The Forest of Fear (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74448530)
Episode 4 - The Fire Maker (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74448538)


Doctor Who: The Daleks (The 1st Doctor: William Hartnell)

Episode 1 - The Dead (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75039970)
Episode 2 - The Survivors (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74975130)
Episode 3 - The Escape (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75039973)
Episode 4 - The Ambush (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75039974)
Episode 5 - The Expedition (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74975133)
Episode 6 - The Ordeal (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75039976)
Episode 7 - The Rescue (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74975128)


Doctor Who: Tomb of The Cybermen (The 2nd Doctor: Patrick Troughton)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75316268)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75316267)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75316266)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75316265)


Doctor Who: Spearhead from Space (The 3rd Doctor: Jon Pertwee)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755307)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755306)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755305)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755304)


Doctor Who: The Sea Devils (The 3rd Doctor: Jon Pertwee)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755313)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755312)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755311)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755310)
Episode 5 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755309)
Episode 6 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/74755308)


Doctor Who: The Sontaran Experiment (The 4th Doctor: Tom Baker)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76104307)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76104308)


Doctor Who: City of Death (The 4th Doctor: Tom Baker)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76104356)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76104357)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76104358)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76104359)


Doctor Who: Earth Shock (The 5th Doctor: Peter Davidson)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75747548)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75747547)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75747546)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/75747545)


Doctor Who: The Two Doctors (The 6th Doctor: Colin Baker & feat. The 2nd Doctor: Patrick Troughton)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76435946)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76435947)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76435945)


Doctor Who: Battlefield (The 7th Doctor: Sylvester McCoy)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76505186)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76505185)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76505184)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76505183)


*Ordered from earliest to latest upload*


Also! - This Saturday, the 16th of November; ABCiview will be making available "Doctor Who: The Movie", featuring the previously sole appearance of the 8th Doctor: Paul McGann! :cool:

Then! - on Saturday the 23rd of November; they will be making available the "Viewer's Choice" voted story, "Doctor Who: The Robots of Death" featuring the 4th Doctor: Tom Baker. :)

Finally! - on Sunday the 24th of November; ABC1 will be airing the world-wide simulcast of the 50th Anniversary episode, "Doctor Who: The Day of The Doctor"! at 6.50am Australian Eastern Daylight Time with a repeat airing at 7:30pm that evening. :D

This will then be followed by the Docu-movie, "An Adventure in Space and Time (http://guide.doctorwhonews.net/story.php?story=AnAdventureInSpaceAndTime&pg=dwm)" at 8:45pm on ABC 1; along with ABCiview planning to host a heap of 50th Anniversary Specials throughout the day. :eek:

[VERT]

HA I knew he would be the one after. The missing link

[Paulbot]

I'm glad that BBC made the mini-episode available freely on YouTube with no region locking or anything like that. I was expecting to have to dig around this morning to find a copy.

I liked it in general and look forward to the special.

[Hursticon]

I'm glad that BBC made the mini-episode available freely on YouTube with no region locking or anything like that. I was expecting to have to dig around this morning to find a copy.

I freaked out initially, as when @BBCDoctorWho (https://twitter.com/bbcdoctorwho) tweeted the link it was to the BBC website's "iPlayer" version of the episode - which IS region locked! :eek:

I then hurriedly went to YouTube thinking someone would've uploaded it there and that it'd only be a matter of moments before it'd be pulled down :(, thankfully however :eek:, the video I found was a region free upload by BBC themselves :D - I was really appreciative that they hadn't locked everyone outside of the UK out. ;)

[Autocon]

Pfft being capped....#(@^)($#**@#:mad:

[snaketales]

Anyone reckon the War Doctor will have some tie to the War Lord and War Chief? :D

[griffin]

The advertisement on the ABC says it will screen (live) at 6.40am Sunday Morning - but check your local listings, as that would be Brisbane time.

Wow... timed perfectly with the ABC's recent repeated run of the new series. After playing all 7 seasons, the last episode should be on Friday... leading into the new episode on Sunday morning. (I just have to make sure I watch them all before Sunday, as I was taping them while away)

[BigTransformerTrev]

I know they have already set the new cast, but there is still that warped part of me that wants to see Vinnie Jones play the Doctor. Just to watch all the aliens tiptoeing around because they are afraid the doctor is going to smack the in the mouth. Or else John Cleese for the most sarcastic and humerous Doctor ever :p

[Paulbot]

The advertisement on the ABC says it will screen (live) at 6.40am Sunday Morning - but check your local listings, as that would be Brisbane time.

Griffin, double check because it looks like you saw the VIC/NSW ad maybe (shake first at the national broadcaster!). If you get up at 6:40 you'll have missed 50 minutes of it, according to the ABC website:


ABC1 will join more than 75 countries around the globe to simultaneously broadcast the highly anticipated television event. The Doctor Who 50th Anniversary special THE DAY OF THE DOCTOR will screen in Australia on ABC1 at 6.50am AEDT, 5.50am QLD time, 5.20am NT, 6.20am SA, 3.50am WA. It will also be repeated at 7.30pm.

http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/doctor-who-the-day-of-the-doctor/

[griffin]

Thanks for pointing that out.
I had it recorded, so just rechecked it - and I didn't notice that it said AEDT, which is the daylight saving time... so they are just using the one ad for the east coast, and hoping that people in Brisbane notice and realise the different time here. I guess it shows just how "live" it is, if it has different start times in each time-zone.

It's also worth noting though, there is an encore later that night though at 7.30pm (in every timezone).

[Paulbot]

Go play the Doctor Who game on Google today (thanks KillinSpoon)

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, I had a quick go -- cute game. :) Can't wait to give a proper go. :D

[Hursticon]

Yesterday I checked out the 8th Doctor's 1st, and up until recently (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo), last appearance via ABCiview (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76615062) - I really enjoyed it and can't see what all the negative fuss was about beyond, typically, general American audiences not grasping a concept that isn't... well... American. :confused:

It was interesting seeing an American "The Master" and a rather more "Manor"-esque appearance of the T.A.R.D.I.S. - I think the only thing I disliked was the somewhat overt pushing of the hard-line that Timelords have a maximum of 13 regenerations (Lives), beyond that, it's a real tragedy that this iteration was only permitted to have a single movie-length pilot episode. :(

Paul Mcgann is/was a REALLY good Doctor. ;):cool:

[griffin]

I think the plot device of him being half-human was what had fans having trouble accepting it as part of DrWho canon... to the point of having fan-writers of the recent seasons go to some length to make it impossible for Timelords to be half human (eg... Donna Noble).
I'm in the minority, who thinks that it would have been interesting to have him be a half-breed like Spock, and explore his human side & family now that he's the only Timelord (currently). But now that it has been retconned to have him be fully Timelord, that's not going to happen.

[Hursticon]

I think the plot device of him being half-human was what had fans having trouble accepting it as part of DrWho canon... to the point of having fan-writers of the recent seasons go to some length to make it impossible for Timelords to be half human (eg... Donna Noble).
I'm in the minority, who thinks that it would have been interesting to have him be a half-breed like Spock, and explore his human side & family now that he's the only Timelord (currently). But now that it has been retconned to have him be fully Timelord, that's not going to happen.

I'd almost completely forgotten that point! :eek: - It did seem a little odd and even a little late in the piece to reveal such a thing (30 years late! :p), it might've been an interesting path to travel (ala Spock ;)) but I think I too prefer the Doctor to be 100% Time Lord... He's human enough in personality to not really require sharing our biology. :cool:

[Autocon]

Yesterday I checked out the 8th Doctor's 1st, and up until recently (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo), last appearance via ABCiview (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/76615062) - I really enjoyed it and can't see what all the negative fuss was about beyond, typically, general American audiences not grasping a concept that isn't... well... American. :confused:


?? What did Americans hate about it?

[Hursticon]

?? What did Americans hate about it?

It's not so much that they "hated" anything, more so that at the time they just didn't "get" what Doctor Who was/is - That feeling has changed a great deal since 2005 however. ;)

[Paulbot]

As well as the half human thing, I think I've read that the Doctor kissing his companion, romantically, was also outrageous to the UK fans who didn't lie the Americans trying to make the Doctor into a typical US-style scifi hero.

I remember watching it at the time, as a scifi fan not a Doctor Who fan, and thinking it was okay but nothing special. It wasn't until the Davies reboot that I became a fan.

[GoktimusPrime]

The Last Day (http://nerdbastards.com/2013/11/20/watch-a-second-doctor-who-50th-minisode-the-last-day-plus-yet-another-day-of-the-doctor-clip/) - another mini webisode. :)
I also managed to clock the Google game in 9 min w/ 6 Doctors. :D I'm sure others could do better, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not much of a gamer (anyone who's seen me get pwned on Fall of Cybertron can attest to this :p)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/googledrwho_zpsa76a893b.jpg

[Hursticon]

ABCiview (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/drama/sci-fi) has just posted their "Doctor Who: Viewer's Choice" episodes, comprising the most popularly voted Doctor & Story:

Doctor Who: The Robots of Death (The 4th Doctor: Tom Baker)

Episode 1 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/78247492)
Episode 2 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/78247491)
Episode 3 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/78247490)
Episode 4 (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/78247489)

[Autocon]

The Last Day (http://nerdbastards.com/2013/11/20/watch-a-second-doctor-who-50th-minisode-the-last-day-plus-yet-another-day-of-the-doctor-clip/) - another mini webisode. :)
I also managed to clock the Google game in 9 min w/ 6 Doctors. :D I'm sure others could do better, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm not much of a gamer (anyone who's seen me get pwned on Fall of Cybertron can attest to this :p)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/googledrwho_zpsa76a893b.jpg

Under 3mins has been my best :D

[griffin]

I only got to the forth Doctor in that game, so went back just to kill myself to see the others. :p
The weeping angels were the tricky bit.

[CBratron]

The weeping angels were the tricky bit.

Yeah, It took me 3 lives to realise facing them doesn't stop them moving.

[Ultra Mackness]

10 minutes 49 seconds!!

Yeah, I'm a hardcore gamer :p

It was a bit of fun though, glad Google did it. REally looking forward to tomorrow too!

[griffin]

It was nice to see a (tiny) little more of Paul McGann.

All this just makes it sooo confusing....

So now there are two incarnations of the Doctor that don't use up a regeneration?
That's like cheating.
Between 8th and 9th we have John Hurt's "War Doctor", and between 12th and 13th we have the Valeyard. But neither of them use up a regeneration just because they don't want to use the name "Doctor".
Or does this really mean that Hurt's Doctor is now retconning the numbers, making Hurt number 9, Eccleston number 10, Tennant as number 11, Smith as number 12, and Peter Capaldi as number 13? And what of the Valeyard? He was real, not a ghost like the Watcher... so surely he's the 13th Doctor, and Capaldi is actually the 14th?

They should have made out that Hurt's "Doctor" WAS the Valeyard, which would have been between Smith and Capaldi, and made it the correct numbers and order of the Doctors in the end.
Moffat's creation of the War Doctor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Doctor) has messed up the chronology of the Doctor's regenerations... just for the benefit of one episode. And I thought he was a fan, so should have worked that out better, instead of retconning what already existed.

I hope there are some other diehard DW fans out there trying to figure it out to force Moffat to sort it out... or maybe something in tomorrow's episode will make some sense of it.

Speaking of tomorrow - from the commercial on TV, could tomorrow's episode be loosely referred to as "The 4 Doctors", as it will include 8 (Hurt), 11 (Tennant), 12 (Smith), 13 (Capaldi).... but not all four at the same time though.

[Hursticon]

Speaking of tomorrow - from the commercial on TV, could tomorrow's episode be loosely referred to as "The 4 Doctors", as it will include 8 (Hurt), 11 (Tennant), 12 (Smith), 13 (Capaldi).... but not all four at the same time though.

Capaldi isn't in tomorrow's Ep dude, his debut is this year's Xmas special. ;):cool:

[Autocon]

Yeah, It took me 3 lives to realise facing them doesn't stop them moving.

Isnt there only one? You cant run out of lives though which is a bit pointless.:p

[griffin]

Capaldi isn't in tomorrow's Ep dude, his debut is this year's Xmas special. ;):cool:

Really? Oh okay.
I was under the impression that this was the last episode for Matt Smith, but I guess it is just a "special" episode before his last one.... which I guess is the next one (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_%282013_specials%29).

[Ultra Mackness]

Saw Day of the Doctor. No spoilers ahead,just..

Epic!

If you missed it is morning, see it tonight!

[Hursticon]

Saw Day of the Doctor. No spoilers ahead,just..

Epic!

If you missed it is morning, see it tonight!

Completely agree :D, But! - Should you not wish to wait until this evening? ;), ABCiview currently has "Doctor Who: The Day of The Doctor" available for viewing right now (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/77806789). :cool:

[SMHFConvoy]

Kind of a clunky start but once everything's in place it works out to be a decent story. What I am looking forward to is the DW docudrama on tonight with the dude from Harry Potter as William Hartnell!

[Hursticon]

What I am looking forward to is the DW docudrama on tonight with the dude from Harry Potter as William Hartnell!

"An Adventure in Space and Time"? - Yep, me too! :D

[Hursticon]

Also, the BBC website currently has a special available for viewing; written & directed by Peter Davison, entitled: "The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy)". :p:D
(Just a CAUTION: Extremely minor spoilers, none with any real context however :o)

[GoktimusPrime]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/spoileralert.jpg






Very enjoyable and it was great seeing every Doctor making an appearance, although only four of them were "actively" appearing, the others were 'inserted' visually or w/ doubles.

I felt that the story still hasn't addressed the issue of a Time Lord's regenerations count. If anything it's confused me even more by redeeming the War Doctor as a "proper" Doctor. :confused:


And I thought he was a fan, so should have worked that out better, instead of retconning what already existed.
Perhaps that's part of the problem. IMO fans often don't make the best writers... often wantonly retconning (or just blatantly ignoring) existing canon to suit their own whims. That's why I don't read fan fics. :rolleyes: At least JJ Abrams had the decency to create a parallel universe for his Star Trek films. ;)


Speaking of tomorrow - from the commercial on TV, could tomorrow's episode be loosely referred to as "The 4 Doctors", as it will include 8 (Hurt), 11 (Tennant), 12 (Smith), 13 (Capaldi).... but not all four at the same time though.
Five Doctors. It "actively" features the War Doctor (Hurt), the Fourth (T. Baker), the War Doctor (Hurt), the Tenth (Tennant), the Eleventh (Smith) and the Twelfth (Capaldi). Although the last one doesn't "actively interact" with the others until the very end scene where every Doctor can be seen standing next to each other. I'm assuming that at least four of those Doctors were played by their respective actors and the others were played by doubles. But no, we don't see all of them "actively" interacting with each other at the same time.

Although it's arguably more interaction that what we saw with the First Doctor in "The Three Doctors," and the Fourth in "The Five Doctors." :o

[Hursticon]

It's too early for discussion I feel so I'll hold off at the moment, but Goki I'm fairly certain there's a line that fixes the numbering issue - Will be re-watching to see if I'm right. ;):cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

Will be re-watching to see if I'm right. ;):cool:
I like this idea. :D

[Hursticon]

I like this idea. :D

1:08:39 - Hit the link (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/77806789), old boy. :cool:

[Paul Agnew]

although only four of them were "actively" appearing, the others were 'inserted' visually or w/ doubles.

Pretty sure Madame Tussauds played a hand in this. ;)

[griffin]

Spoilers sweetie...


Obviously...



(come back when you've see the episode - it's online and being replayed tonight, so there's no excuse to complain about being spoiled after tonight if you read today's postings)


I set the alarm, and got up early, after just 4 hours sleep... which was a first for me with this series (and probably a lot of other people). It was like getting up during the night for something live on TV.



So in one episode, we have guidebooks and wikis on the 9th to 12th Doctors needing to be rewritten. Or at least, create confusion for fans, who now in future have to refer to Doctors by their actor's name, rather than their number. (which of course will create its own confusion with their being a 1st Baker Doctor and a 2nd Baker Doctor)
With Hurt NOW being the 9th incarnation of the Doctor (shown to regenerate FROM Mcgann and TO Eccleston), it shuffles the four of the new series along by one.
As I guessed in my previous post, the Eccleston Doctor is now the 10th Doctor, the Tennant Doctor is now the 11th Doctor, the Smith Doctor is now the 12th Doctor, and the Capaldi Doctor is the 13th.
Besides - the Timelord Generals refer to all 13 Doctors surrounding Galifrey at the end - and all 13 known Doctors were shown.

One thing the retcon now messes up, is that prior to the "Name of the Doctor" episode, whenever the number of past doctors flashed up on screen in a couple episodes, it only showed the ones we knew before the retcon. (naturally)


This should mean that in the next episode, if Moffat remembers his DrWho history, we should see the creation of the Valeyard as some as-yet-explained side-effect of the Doctor's regeneration into his 13th incarnation.

Well, all that confusion is now for the diehard fans to argue about on fansites now, until the end of time...



As for the episode itself, it felt like it had a bigger budget, but for some reason I was expecting more of the Time War... which we knew had to be featured eventually after being an underlying plot device for the last 9 years of the new series.

The appearance of Tom Baker was a nice touch, as I hope he was wanting to make an appearance to make up for "spoiling" the 20th Anniversary story "The 5 Doctors" by refusing to be a part of it at all.
I was also hoping that Eccleston was willing to be an active part of it too, despite saying that he'd only do a season as a favour to Russell T Davies and not come back to it.
It would have been nice to have Mcgann in it as well, since he was "brought out of retirement" with the 7 minute webisode "Night of the Doctor"... Considering the 20th episode had 5 in the title, and 4 active Doctors in the story, I thought they might have tried to get more of the older Doctors in the *50th* Anniversary story. They had Tom Baker have a cameo, why couldn't they have the other surviving actors who are also too old to play their Doctor character?

Zygons were a nice inclusion, as the 4th Doctor story was one of the early ones I remember most. We didn't get to see much of them though, possibly so that it didn't take away attention from the main story. It was just a catalyst to the main story, of changing history.

I was never a fan of the Russell T Davies having Gallifrey destroyed or time-locked in the current series, as it prevented the story from properly visiting his home planet, and forced a darker element to the Doctor's personality... so now we have something that may lead a rescuing of the planet.
I get the feeling that Moffat may not have been a fan of Davies work on the first four seasons either, as this story paints the Timelords as better people than Davies did in "End of Time", and re-writes the disappearance of Gallifrey to be something less permanent than what Davies wanted it to be.

I was also not a fan of the Doctor suddenly aging 200-400 years during the Smith Doctor, but not showing any sign of it physically or mentally (he still has a "young" excitable personality, for someone who's seen and done a lot during that time), or *needing* to age that much. However, we now see that it was done for a reason, as Moffat said he had been planning ahead for this story - the Doctor needed all those years to run the calculations (in his head I guess, or in the Tardis computer) to save Gallifrey.
(not to mention that scene with the Screwdriver needing 400 years to calculate the right sonics... only to be wasted by not being needed)

So many thoughts... :p
It was good to watch the entire Smith Doctor run of stories in the weeks before this episode, to get a proper feel for the character, and be fresh in the mind.
Now we have to wait a month for the next episode.

It's just a shame that some of these "seasons" are taking two years. Season 4 and 7 were both two years long, which only gives us about 7 episodes a year... :(
I'm too impatient. :p
I want an American yearly season of 26 episodes, not a British season of 6.



Capaldi isn't in tomorrow's Ep dude, his debut is this year's Xmas special. ;):cool:

We got to see his eyes, so does that count? :p
It was good timing to have him on hand to include as an uncredited cameo, so that the Timelord Generals were able to say "all 13 of him" were circling Galifrey at the end.
It was a shame that we couldn't see more of him, but I know how that would have spoiled the drama of the next episode, which is supposed to be the one to properly introduce the Capaldi Doctor. (see, even I can't use the numbers anymore, because it confuses me now :( )
I know he's been publicly announced as the next one, but in the show, it probably wouldn't have the same effect if we already knew what he was like in a previous one.

[GoktimusPrime]

Paul Agnew: I did not know that! Whoa!! :eek: :D


We got to see his eyes, so does that count? :p
It might've also been Capaldi standing alongside the other 12 Doctors at the end. So we also got to see him... most from behind and from in front obscured in darkness. ;)

[Hursticon]

We got to see his eyes, so does that count? :p

I reckon it does mate! :D


It might've also been Capaldi standing alongside the other 12 Doctors at the end. So we also got to see him... most from behind and from in front obscured in darkness. ;)

That was a pretty awesome closing shot I thought. :cool:

Reading the discussion here and in other places, it really does show me just how gaping the holes are in my knowledge of Doctor Who; I've seen a stack of episodes in my life but the vast majority have been out of sequence, with most of Tennant's & Eccelston's tenures being literally all over the place. :o
(I made a concerted effort to see Smith's properly, episode for episode as it aired :D)

I WILL have to fix that. ;):)

Most of my exposure had been from re-runs during the early 90s of Tom Baker's run (So was really chuffed to see his cameo, being MY first Doctor :D), with spatterings of Dalek & Cybermen themed Jon Pertwee stories rented on VHS from Civic Video! :p

The Valeyard seems like it'd be a hard thing to tackle at this point (Had to do a wiki search on that one, :o), at least on-screen without having another "Multi-Doctor" episode to deal with it, so perhaps it's a story better leant to an Animated or Audio-based story?
...Also, I thought that a recent retcon at some point had dispelled the hard-rule of only 13 regenerations? :confused:

Finally, on Eccelston: I really can't say I missed him at all, however great it might've been for him to be at least present in order to be regenerated into; I caught very little of his tenure and to be honest he never felt like "The Doctor" to me, he felt more like someone pretending to be the Doctor as opposed to actually being the Doctor, you know what I mean? - Does that make sense? :o

That said, I do want to go back and see his & Tennant's tenure properly, in full, as it seems there's a number of great stories I've missed out on between them for one reason or another. :cool:
(I REALLY want to see more of Troughton's era too, however many Eps are lost to time :()




P.S. Peter Davison's "The Five(ish) Doctors Reboot" was hilariously brilliant and got far more people involved than I had even considered it would've! :p:D

[Autocon]

I don't understand the end scene!! They are all there together?? Don't they all have their memories wiped clean?? Explain this I just don't get it. :/

[griffin]

I don't think it is meant to have anything to do with the story, it is just there for being visually spectacular... after 50 years, we have his whole "life" in one shot. (even if most of it was just made up of giant candles) :p

[SMHFConvoy]

The Doctor was narrating that Clara had asked if he ever had dreams. The scene of all the Doctors standing together was the dream.

[Burn]

I think it's a safe bet that Moffatt is going to ignore The Valeyard story, or we are expected to believe the throw away line in The Sarah Jane Adventures that he has more than 12 regenerations.

That in it's self would be backed up by the "intro" by Matt Smith at the movie screening where he declares he's just come back from watching the 100th Anniversary Episode which starred all 57 Doctors. I know I know, not to be taken seriously. :p

So aside from watching it this morning at 5:50am I also went along to see it at the cinema because I won a double pass.

I was completely blown away by the crowd.

Initially it was suppose to be one screening. One of the managers gave a speech and said they had to add a second, then a 3rd and 4th and might even have to add a 5th by the end of the day.

On top of that I was amazed at the number of Tom Baker fans ... fans that shouldn't have been! We're talking teenagers and early 20-somethings. The sort of people you'd expect to be fans of Tennant and Smith.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Very good 50th anniversary episode! I did love all the doctors coming together to save Galifrey at the end, and they sidestepped the whole 'him losing his regret and becoming a different person' by conveniently forgetting very well.

I feel a bit of a nerd for how many references and in-jokes I got, but I bet there are a lot of folk that got a lot more than I did ;)

[CBratron]

Meh, it was okay.

I much preferred Adventures in Time and Space dramatising the filming of Doctor Who.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Fun little Dr Who online Quiz here:

http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Tardis_Trivia_Quizzes

[SMHFConvoy]

I much preferred Adventures in Time and Space dramatising the filming of Doctor Who.

The special should have been the same level of Adventures in Time and Space. I'm not a fan of Mark Gatiss' writing but his recent contributions to the series have been solid.

[Hursticon]

So aside from watching it this morning at 5:50am I also went along to see it at the cinema because I won a double pass.

I was completely blown away by the crowd.

Initially it was suppose to be one screening. One of the managers gave a speech and said they had to add a second, then a 3rd and 4th and might even have to add a 5th by the end of the day.

On top of that I was amazed at the number of Tom Baker fans ... fans that shouldn't have been! We're talking teenagers and early 20-somethings. The sort of people you'd expect to be fans of Tennant and Smith.

^This is extremely good to hear, clearly The Doctor is far more alive and well than many might've otherwise thought! :eek:^


Just finished watching "An Adventure in Space and Time (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/77806791)" (Which is now up on ABCiview (http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/drama/sci-fi) ;):cool:)...
Wow! :eek:, a brilliant "Behind The Scenes" story, however dramatised, who's ending nearly choked me up I'll admit... extremely few things have ever had that affect on me, David Bradley's performance was thoroughly brilliant! :o

"I don't want to go..." - Powerful words, in the right hands.

Having Matt Smith appear (In somewhat of a premonition) certainly added weight to the final act I felt, it really rang home just how much William Hartnell's performance was essential to establishing a firm base in which each successive actor has drawn from & echoed - This is why I rather liked his positioning in the final Dream scene of the 50th Anniversary episode because really, without Bill, we wouldn't have had any of the others. ;)

[CBratron]

Having Matt Smith appear (In somewhat of a premonition) certainly added weight to the final act I felt, it really rang home just how much William Hartnell's performance was essential to establishing a firm base in which each successive actor has drawn from & echoed - This is why I rather liked his positioning in the final Dream scene of the 50th Anniversary episode because really, without Bill, we wouldn't have had any of the others. ;)

The appearance of Matt Smith was weird and rather jarring to me. It was like watching the Star Wars original trilogy with the added prequel reference scenes. It just felt out of place.

[Burn]

It was definitely weird.

Felt a little rushed, but other than that one little scene I enjoyed it. Great casting of all involved.

[Wheelie]

Most of my exposure had been from re-runs during the early 90s of Tom Baker's run (So was really chuffed to see his cameo, being MY first Doctor :D), with spatterings of Dalek & Cybermen themed Jon Pertwee stories rented on VHS from Civic Video! :p

So much fun, so many nightmares

[Golden Phoenix]

The Valeyard seems like it'd be a hard thing to tackle at this point (Had to do a wiki search on that one, :o), at least on-screen without having another "Multi-Doctor" episode to deal with it, so perhaps it's a story better leant to an Animated or Audio-based story?
...Also, I thought that a recent retcon at some point had dispelled the hard-rule of only 13 regenerations? :confused:

I don't think they will ignore the Valeyard as the Great Intelligence say it is one of the Doctor's future names in "the Name of the Doctor"

They say that he is a result of the 12th to 13th regeneration, but how he is spawned isn't stated. I'm sure they could write around it.

Also, the Master had used all 12 of his regenerations but the Time Lords resurrected him and he had more regenerations. He had also always planned to steal the Doctor's remaining regenerations so he can keep living. It shows that Time Lords can be given more regenerations
They could find a way to give the Doctor more, or have sneakily given him more in the past.

Like maybe when River healed him in "Let's kill Hitler" the processes also transferred some of her own regenerations to him so he has more.

[Hursticon]

The appearance of Matt Smith was weird and rather jarring to me. It was like watching the Star Wars original trilogy with the added prequel reference scenes. It just felt out of place.

Baring in mind that it was a dramatisation; really William could've seen anybody in that moment, as he'd come to the realisation that this show could really have "long legs", so to speak, so it's really less of him seeing Matt Smith specifically (That's just who we as the viewer see, as we've the benefit of hindsight ;)) and more-so him just seeing a possible new face. :)
(It could be looked at in reverse too in that Matt Smith is looking back at the guy who started it all - It was an acknowledgement at any rate)

I hope I've worded that adequately, it's been a long day. :o

[Hursticon]

Felt a little rushed, but other than that one little scene I enjoyed it. Great casting of all involved.

Definitely agreed. :)


So much fun, so many nightmares

...of tapes getting chewed in the VCR? - Bloody oath as it happened a couple of times so we started borrowing them from the local Library as they were in better nic! :p


I don't think they will ignore the Valeyard as the Great Intelligence say it is one of the Doctor's future names in "the Name of the Doctor"

They say that he is a result of the 12th to 13th regeneration, but how he is spawned isn't stated. I'm sure they could write around it.

Also, the Master had used all 12 of his regenerations but the Time Lords resurrected him and he had more regenerations. He had also always planned to steal the Doctor's remaining regenerations so he can keep living. It shows that Time Lords can be given more regenerations
They could find a way to give the Doctor more, or have sneakily given him more in the past.

Like maybe when River healed him in "Let's kill Hitler" the processes also transferred some of her own regenerations to him so he has more.

For sure - I reckon with the way the show works, there's a million and 1 different ways they could extend the Doctor's life, 13 iterations seems awfully limiting. ;):cool:

[GoktimusPrime]

I don't understand the end scene!! They are all there together?? Don't they all have their memories wiped clean?? Explain this I just don't get it. :/
I understood it as a dream that the Eleventh Doctor was having.
Also I must correct myself, Capaldi's Doctor is not in that shot (which of course would make sense if it is the Eleventh was having)

Just finished watching Adventures in Time and Space. Really quite interesting to see how successful Doctor Who has become despite such big obstacles in the beginning. The sexism faced by the producer (Lambert), racism faced by the director (Hussein), and of course the unfortunate timing of JFK's assassination. Matt Smith's little cameo was also quite touching - almost like seeing the actor for the latest Doctor saying a silent 'thank you' to the first actor for pioneering the role. :)

[Hursticon]

Matt Smith's little cameo was also quite touching - almost like seeing the actor for the latest Doctor saying a silent 'thank you' to the first actor for pioneering the role. :)

Thank you Goki. :)

My mind frustrates me in its inability to extrapolate what its feeling sometimes. :o

[jazzcomp]

12 types of Dr Who fans (http://www.geeksaresexy.net/2013/11/24/dorkly-comic-the-12-types-of-doctor-who-fans/)

[Bartrim]

I've got to admit I am not a Dr Who fan. Maybe it's because as a kid I was freaked out by Tom Baker :p. One night leaving the TV on ABC for kids while putting my 2 boys to bed I came back to lounge room to see the first episode of the ninth doctor. To be honest I wasn't even sure what I was watching at first as Christopher Eccleston's doctor is not what I picture when people say Dr Who. I enjoyed it and watched all of his season. Then the other night on ABC I saw the Dr Who Ultimate Guide. It really helped explain a lot of things about Dr Who to me (like regeneration) and it may... just may... get me to watch a few more episodes to see if I really like it.

[snaketales]

Now there are reports Marco Polo - a seven-episode story with the first Doctor - has been found. I've read the BBC is going to use footage filmed by someone pointing their camera at the screen while it was televised.
I've seen some off-screen footage and it's pretty ordinary. If it's of the same standard than seven episodes will be a slog.
I don't think this report is true, but I'd love to be proven wrong.

[griffin]

Damn... 4 times in two days. The ABC are certainly milking the new DrWho episode. Sunday morning, Sunday night, Monday primetime and Monday late night (playing right now in NSW & VIC).
And they are repeating the Ultimate guide that was on Saturday night, tomorrow night.

[VERT]

Every time I turn on the TV its on. hahahahah Watched it in 3D today too.:D

[griffin]

I forgot all about it being at selected cinemas in 3D... I might have to try to catch a session. It's only on for another two days near me too.

It is indeed captivating... I've now managed to catch all four screenings on TV (just bits of the last three), and I'm still keen to see it in 3D.

[UltraMarginal]

I've been watching this fairly steadily since eccelestons series started, I generally really enjoy it, I watched the special on Sunday night with a few friends over. I really enjoyed it and felt that I had picked up most of the episode but all this talk about the valeyard and numbers of doctors has my head spinning.

and I have to go back and see "the name of the doctor" again becuase it looks like I missed something. :confused:

[griffin]

I saw it tonight at the nearby Theatre in 3D.
The 3D was an interesting visual touch to it, but not exactly mind-blowing, as the content of the episode wasn't making extensive or constant use of the gimmick.

The pre-show bits were good though. We had a Sontaran (Strax) telling the audience what would happen if they use their phones (showing a couple of torture victims), and then recommending the purchase of popcorn (because he likes the squeeky sound it makes when you chew it, as it sounds like they are crying out in pain).

Then we had an introduction to the 3D version by the Tennant and Smith Doctors.... before the show started.

I was really hoping they'd play the "Night of the Doctor" beforehand, especially since they were charging a full movie ticket price for a 70 minute "episode".... but nope. Nothing significant to make it worth the $25! price tag. :(
Yes, it was expensive... plus $1 if you didn't have your own 3D glasses. But I think the gimmick of 3D was what most were wanting to pay for, plus the chance of watching history on a huge screen.

There were quite a few people in there though, considering it was the third day of screening a TV episode you could watch for free at home.


The one flaw that keeps bugging me in this episode, is that they use their 1200-ish years of calculations to save Gallifrey, but they point out that they won't remember their interactions with each other (possibly a "fanboy-ish" explanation by Moffat (writer) as to why Doctors don't recognise their future selves in other multi-doctor stories).
As such, it ends up preventing the main plot device of this story.... a plot device that was forced into the DrWho universe a couple years ago when Moffat suddenly aged the Smith Doctor by 200-400 years, just to set the foundation for this episode's plot device. (he said he'd been planning for it since he took over as writer/producer)


That end shot of the 12 doctors - I think should have been 13 (with the new one obscured to keep the mystery of the next episode), and should have used better wax-work copies... as the facial expressions on most were pretty bad.


They have another session tomorrow night and two more on the weekend, so other theatres around the country may also have more sessions if anyone else is keen to see it in 3D, with the pre-show extras.

[UltraMarginal]

The Sontaran was a nice touch.

I'm happy with my home viewing though.

[Paulbot]

I loved the episode, definitely my favourite 11th story, and probably in part because it featured the 10th. (Yeah I'm a David Tennant fanboy...)

I've had to correct two people who watch the show (since the Davies era like me) but don't bother to read up on the old show (like me) and got a bit confused by it. Both thought the Time War and the Doctor ending it and being left as the only Time Lord were element of the show from the very beginning.

Makes sense since those elements were in the show from the very beginning of the reboot and there's been nothing in particular (that I can recall) in the episodes themselves (not including minisodes etc) that explained that John Hurt Doctor came after the eight other versions we've seen glimpses of.

To Griffin's point, how old was the Doctor supposed to be when the 1963 show started? I was under the impression that the Doctor was 700-800 years old by that point and that not more than a few hundred years had taken place since An Unearthly Child and the 10th's regeneration? In that case the Eleventh Doctor being several centuries older during his run would make sense to give he calculations a little more time to run.

The thing that bothered me when the future Doctors came to help the War Doctor use the Moment was that they knew it wasn't going to stop the Daleks. The Time War's only losers were the Time Lords, since the Daleks keep finding other ways back over and over again. I know the Doctors thought they had to do it to keep time in order, but I just wanted some acknowledgement that all they were doing was ending their own people.

The twist though was a really nice one for the 50th special too, redeeming the most violent act of the Doctor, and giving the new series a mission: Instead of running from Gallifrey, the Doctor will now be going home.

[GoktimusPrime]

The thing that bothered me when the future Doctors came to help the War Doctor use the Moment was that they knew it wasn't going to stop the Daleks. The Time War's only losers were the Time Lords, since the Daleks keep finding other ways back over and over again. I know the Doctors thought they had to do it to keep time in order, but I just wanted some acknowledgement that all they were doing was ending their own people.
The Doctor wasn't only trying to thwart the Daleks, but the Time Lords too. At the end of the Time War, Lord President Rassilon wanted to invoke the Ultimate Sanction which would destroy all of creation, but the Time Lords themselves would survive as beings of pure consciousness. In principle the Time Lords were trying to do the same thing that the Daleks were doing -- to eradicate the universe of anything that wasn't their own race. The Doctor could not allow this, thus he was willing to use the Moment to destroy his own people rather than allow them to commit super-genocide across all creation (that would arguably make the Daleks' attempt at genocide pale by comparison). (re: The End of Time)

By shunting Gallifrey into a pocket universe, he not only protected Gallifrey from being destroyed by the Daleks, but also protected the universe from the Time Lords (principally Rassilon and his cohorts).

[Golden Phoenix]

The Doctor wasn't only trying to thwart the Daleks, but the Time Lords too. At the end of the Time War, Lord President Rassilon wanted to invoke the Ultimate Sanction which would destroy all of creation, but the Time Lords themselves would survive as beings of pure consciousness. In principle the Time Lords were trying to do the same thing that the Daleks were doing -- to eradicate the universe of anything that wasn't their own race. The Doctor could not allow this, thus he was willing to use the Moment to destroy his own people rather than allow them to commit super-genocide across all creation (that would arguably make the Daleks' attempt at genocide pale by comparison). (re: The End of Time)

By shunting Gallifrey into a pocket universe, he not only protected Gallifrey from being destroyed by the Daleks, but also protected the universe from the Time Lords (principally Rassilon and his cohorts).

The interesting thing about this episode though is that it establishes that not all the Time Lords share Rassilon's view.

The War Council seems to dismiss the High Council's plan too. How much of the Time Lord population agree with the High Council would be an interesting question.

[UltraMarginal]

The last few posts are making a lot of sense.

[griffin]

I actually liked that line by the War Council, saying that they were not interested in following the High Council... so yes, the High Council could well be a minority, or not even representing the general population.

If they weren't elected (to represent what the people are wanting), does a "highly evolved" race see a non-elected dictatorship as being the most effective/efficient means of governing, for the best needs of the people... I wonder?

[Autocon]

Makes sense since those elements were in the show from the very beginning of the reboot and there's been nothing in particular (that I can recall) in the episodes themselves (not including minisodes etc) that explained that John Hurt Doctor came after the eight other versions we've seen glimpses of.

Does that mean all other Drs thereafter a now one number back? So Matt Smith is now the 12th Dr?

[Paulbot]

I actually liked that line by the War Council, saying that they were not interested in following the High Council... so yes, the High Council could well be a minority, or not even representing the general population.

If they weren't elected (to represent what the people are wanting), does a "highly evolved" race see a non-elected dictatorship as being the most effective/efficient means of governing, for the best needs of the people... I wonder?

No wonder the Doctor left his home planet behind.

Even though the Time Lords had gone a bit genocidal, it still seemed strange to not mention of the Daleks surviving the Time War (which meant the use of the Moment was going to only destroy the Time Lords - which probably made 9, 10 and 11 hate himself even much for what he had done as the War Doctor).

[snaketales]

WA-HOOOOOOOOOOOO got the Enemy of the World on DVD!

For those who don't know, this serial has been missing for something like 47 years... :eek:

[griffin]

Does that mean all other Drs thereafter a now one number back? So Matt Smith is now the 12th Dr?

This is now the conundrum of DrWho fans, wikis and published materials - do you start referring to them with their new number designation (now that Hurt is the 9th incarnation/Doctor), or, do you stick with the old number designations and just call Hurt "the War Doctor", or, refer to them by their actor names (like, the Smith Doctor, the McCoy Doctor or the first Baker Doctor) to prevent any confusion when referring to any of the Doctors AFTER McGann.

Because until the new order of 13 Doctors becomes universally accepted or adopted, after last weekend's story, anyone saying "the 10th Doctor" (for example) could either be talking about Eccelston or Tennant.
The majority of fans (and published materials) needs to agree or accept the new order and numbers, or, stick with the old numbers and just label Hurt as "The War Doctor".
If the former, imagine all those publishers and guidebook/wiki writers who would be a bit upset about having to redo any reference to a number. (at least with the publishers, it could be a marketing ploy to sell "updated" editions)

[griffin]

To Griffin's point, how old was the Doctor supposed to be when the 1963 show started? I was under the impression that the Doctor was 700-800 years old by that point and that not more than a few hundred years had taken place since An Unearthly Child and the 10th's regeneration? In that case the Eleventh Doctor being several centuries older during his run would make sense to give he calculations a little more time to run.


It still bugs me that it was just suddenly thrown in there between a couple episodes, when it could have been a gradual thing, between each of his visits with Pond and Clara... like 10 years here, 20 years there. Before long, over the course of two seasons of not having permanent travelling companions, he could have accumulated the same amount of time, without it just sounding like it was a last-minute plot device, which was only ever used (adequately justified) in the Day of the Doctor where it was needed.
Visually it bugs me too - in 800 years when we first meet the Doctor (The Unearthly Child in 1963) he is an old man. Yes, they age slowly, but he looked old because he was old. But when the Smith Doctor "aged" 400 years, half that amount, he didn't have any aging to show for it.... or any explanation as to why he hadn't yet aged. (maybe it's a sudden thing in the last few years before a natural regeneration... but that could have been something mentioned to explain no aging of Smith's Doctor)

Hmmm... debating the biological mechanics of Dr Who, a fictional universe... really makes me feel like an obsessed fanboy. :p

[Paulbot]

I took the War Doctor looking old and the 11th didnt was because fighting the Time War aged him (fatigue, stress, injuries and so on from non-stop warfare can't be good for the skin)

Matt Smith was the 11th to play the Doctor so he's still got a good claim on being called the 11th (and so on). It's the next one I'm not sure about.

[UltraMarginal]

I don't see why the "War Doctor" gets slotted in at 9?

shouldn't he be considered the Zeroth Doctor. I figured when he started to regenerate that he would be becoming the first doctor. I obviously missed something.

[Paulbot]

I don't see why the "War Doctor" gets slotted in at 9?

shouldn't he be considered the Zeroth Doctor. I figured when he started to regenerate that he would be becoming the first doctor. I obviously missed something.

You're the third person I know that thought this, but no: Paul McGann's Dcotor (8th, from the telemovie) became the "War Doctor" fought the Time War, who then became the 9th Doctor (Christopher Eccleston, you see a glimpse of his features in the special during the regeneration) and almost immediately met Rose Tyler in the first ep of the current run. The period between the telemovie and the current series is where the gap for the Time War and War Doctor exists.

[griffin]

See, that's why I said that they should have played the "Night of the Doctor" before the "Day of the Doctor" at the theatres or on TV, so that it made sense to those who hadn't seen it yet. Or at the very least, clearly show Eccelston's face after he regenerated at the end of this episode.


I took the War Doctor looking old and the 11th didnt was because fighting the Time War aged him (fatigue, stress, injuries and so on from non-stop warfare can't be good for the skin)


Since the Doctor can look old when newly regenerated (Troughton and Pertwee), I didn't think that the Hurt Doctor would have aged during his existence... But the first Doctor isn't likely to have been "born" old, so it would make sense that if he can age in his first life of 800 years, then 400 years should have made a difference to his appearance.



Matt Smith was the 11th to play the Doctor so he's still got a good claim on being called the 11th (and so on). It's the next one I'm not sure about.Technically, he wasn't even the 11th... if you take into account Richard Hurndall and the Valeyard's two actors (and that's just in this main universe of DrWho - we've also had other actors play the character in other story universes, like Rowen Atkinson and Peter Cushing). But if Smith is kept officially as the "11th Doctor" because he was the 11th "main" actor, I wonder if that makes Hurt the "12th Doctor"?

[Autocon]

You're the third person I know that thought this, but no: Paul McGann's Dcotor (8th, from the telemovie) became the "War Doctor" fought the Time War, who then became the 9th Doctor (Christopher Eccleston, you see a glimpse of his features in the special during the regeneration) and almost immediately met Rose Tyler in the first ep of the current run. The period between the telemovie and the current series is where the gap for the Time War and War Doctor exists.

So Hurt is playing the 8th Dr?

[Golden Phoenix]

So Hurt is playing the 8th Dr?

Nah, he is effectively playing the 8.5th Doctor.
While Eccelston was the 9th Doctor, he was the 10th form he had taken. Hurt didn't consider himself as the Doctor as he felt he was going against what the idea of The Doctor stood for.

I probably wont change the way I number the Doctors since the War Doctor didn't consider himself the Doctor until the end, and even then he doesn't remember that and wont actually remember until he sees the events unfold as the 11th Doctor.

On another note:
Does anyone know what point in time the 10th Doctor came from?
I believe he has to be from after Martha left him, either directly or even further after that (possibly even after Donna had to leave him).

There was an episode when she is with him (I think it is the Shakespeare one) and he bumps into Queen Elizabeth. The Queen recognises him and wants his head taken off, but the Doctor doesn't know why.
It would seem he burned her by running off and she wants his head, it is in her past and his future at that point, hence he not knowing why.

How long after that point though I am uncertain. He does seem pretty down and desperate to know where he is going (he snaps at the 11th Doctor while in prison), so maybe it is after he had to leave Donna.

Any thoughts?

[Demonac]

Anywhere between 'the Next Doctor' & 'the End of Time' would be a good bet.

Did they get around to resolving the Zygon storyline?

[Hursticon]

So Hurt is playing the 8th Dr?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BZ63jk0CUAAxaof.jpg:large



Steven Moffat on the current state (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/11/moffat-on-doctor-numbering.html) of the Doctor's "Numbers":


"He's just The Doctor, Matt Smith's Doctor is the 11th Doctor, however there is no such character as the 11th Doctor – he’s just the Doctor – that's what he calls himself. The numbering doesn't matter, except for those lists that you and I have been making for many years. So I've given you the option of not counting John Hurt numerically - he's the War Doctor."




50th Anniversary Special earns Guinness World Record (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/11/anniversary-episode-guinness-world-record-241113170417.html):


Last night's simultaneous broadcast of The Day of the Doctor to 94 countries has been officially named the world's largest-ever simulcast of a TV drama.

...

The BBC said that more than 1,500 cinemas around the world showed the episode, with fans in Sweden and Norway, where there was no client broadcaster, petitioning their cinemas successfully to show the episode, while in Argentina they persuaded a major cinema chain to "simulscreen" the episode. Over in the USA, there was a sell-out of 10,000 cinema tickets in 28 minutes with no advertising or marketing, while Germany saw one of its biggest cinema chains - Cinemaxx - reporting that the episode was the fastest non-movie pre-sale in its history.





"Day of The Doctor" a Huge Hit Down-Under according to these Televised stats (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/11/day-of-doctor-hit-down-under.html):


Doctor Who pulled in a massive 1.95 million viewers nationally, 1.36 million at 7.30pm on ABC1 and a further 0.59 million for the live broadcast on ABC1, which went out at 6.50am in Sydney and 3.50am in Perth.

The live screening achieved a 5 city metro overnight average audience of 424,000 viewers and a total TV share of 37.1%, while the repeat broadcast achieved a 5 city metro average audience of 922,000 viewers and a total TV share of 16.1%. The repeat was second in its timeslot to 60 Minutes on Channel 9. Across both the live and repeat broadcasts, the programme reached 1.5 million viewers, or 9.3% of the 5 city metro population.

In addition, there were 51,000 plays via iview.

An Adventure in Space and Time, which followed the episode, had 0.94 million watching, a 5 city metro average audience of 633,000 and a total TV share of 13.5%




"Day of The Doctor" a Huge Hit at AU & NZ Box Offices (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/11/australian-cinema-261113105008.html) (Numbers as of 25/11/13):


Hot on the heels of the UK box office success, Australia's figures show that The Day of the Doctor was a huge hit in cinemas there, too! The 50th Anniversary adventure took $1.54 million (£872K) at the weekend, placing it third in the charts. Webwombat (http://www.webwombat.com.au/entertain/pages/entertainment/movie-reviews/australian-box-office.htm) reported:

Showing on just 107 screens, the sci-fi celebration average an astounding $14,399 per screen (pretty much means every session was sold out) for a final take of over $1.5M.

...

Meanwhile, in New Zealand, Flicks (http://www.flicks.co.nz/box-office/) reports the episode was even more successful, reaching second place in the chart after taking $187,029 (£95K) at the box office.

[griffin]

You're the third person I know that thought this, but no: Paul McGann's Dcotor (8th, from the telemovie) became the "War Doctor" fought the Time War, who then became the 9th Doctor (Christopher Eccleston, you see a glimpse of his features in the special during the regeneration) and almost immediately met Rose Tyler in the first ep of the current run. The period between the telemovie and the current series is where the gap for the Time War and War Doctor exists.

Hang on, I missed a bit of your post.

I don't think Paul McGann and John Hurt are the same doctor, or using up the one regeneration (through some magic potion by the Sisterhood of Karn)... I took it as being separate Doctors, because the War Council referred to them as "all 13" and we got a glimpse of Capaldi, WITH Hurt and the other 11.
Hurt was also referred to by the War Council and the other Doctors, as a separate incarnation... and the potion he was given by the Sisterhood was to help his regeneration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_of_the_Doctor), as he had apparently died in the crash... and needed help to regenerate (with the choice of choosing his new form, which doesn't happen without Timelord intervention - see The War Games).

[griffin]

Some nice stats there, and I think most of us who saw it live, or even later in the day (or at all), will be proud to have been a part of history. It's only another 20 years for our fandom to get to that milestone... but hopefully, ours will be continuous for our 50 years. :D

Man, I'll be old by then... :(






Steven Moffat on the current state (http://www.doctorwhonews.net/2013/11/moffat-on-doctor-numbering.html) of the Doctor's "Numbers":

Quote: "He's just The Doctor, Matt Smith's Doctor is the 11th Doctor, however there is no such character as the 11th Doctor – he’s just the Doctor – that's what he calls himself. The numbering doesn't matter, except for those lists that you and I have been making for many years. So I've given you the option of not counting John Hurt numerically - he's the War Doctor."


That's a redundant explanation. We know that each Doctor doesn't refer to himself as the Xth Doctor in the story... it's the fans asking for clarification for themselves when talking to each other about particular Doctors or episodes. :rolleyes:


Sorry guys for being such an obsessed fanboy, :o but this is my second favourite franchise behind Transformers (since Star Trek stopped producing TV episodes), and after just watching all the Smith stories I was boycotting, it's really sucked me back in.

[Paulbot]

Yeah I meant "regenerated into" when I wrote "became". The War Doctor is another regeneration it seems not just a new face.

What about the meta-crisis Doctor? The Doctor was dying and regenerating in Journey's End but made his hand regenerate instead. He in theory used up one of his "extra lives" at that point too.

[griffin]

Heh, the new series has been messing up the whole concept of regeneration energy hasn't it... after he put the energy of a whole regeneration into the severed hand (creating a second Doctor), the Master preventing a regeneration (in the Last of the Time Lords), the Tennant Doctor suppressing his regeneration for quite a while after he was mortally irradiated (in The End of Time), and River giving him ALL of her regeneration energy (in Lets Kill Hitler)... but we don't know how many regenerations she would have had though, but perhaps her energy offset the regeneration he sacrificed into his hand?

[GoktimusPrime]

Look closely when the War Doctor regenerates, particularly the eyes and eyebrows - they begin morphing into the Ninth Doctor's face.

As for the surviving Daleks, they came from the Cult of Skaro who were imprisoned in a Time Lord Void Ship at an earlier point of the Time War. Considering that the ship exists outside of reality, there wasn't much that the Doctor could've done. I'm not sure if the Doctor possesses the capability of going into the void and try to retrieve the Void Ship in an attempt to destroy it. But the Void Ship is protected by a "Void Sphere" which has no mass, temperature etc. It's pure nothingness and how do you destroy that?

Unless the Doctor's new quest apart from saving Gallifrey is to find a way to track that Void Ship and find a way to either destroy it or permanently imprison it in the void so that there's no possible way for it to ever escape. <shrugs> :confused:

[griffin]

Look closely when the War Doctor regenerates, particularly the eyes and eyebrows - they begin morphing into the Ninth Doctor's face.


That's why I had to use the words "Or at the very least, clearly show Eccelston's face after he regenerated at the end of this episode" in a previous posting, because you can see the eyes change, but not enough of the rest to be obvious... which was strange that they didn't super-impose more of Eccelston's face in that scene. They already used his image in the episode, so it's not like they were avoiding paying royalties (if he had it in his original contract).
Post production dropped the ball on that element.

[UltraMarginal]

You're the third person I know that thought this, but no: Paul McGann's Dcotor (8th, from the telemovie) became the "War Doctor" fought the Time War, who then became the 9th Doctor (Christopher Eccleston, you see a glimpse of his features in the special during the regeneration) and almost immediately met Rose Tyler in the first ep of the current run. The period between the telemovie and the current series is where the gap for the Time War and War Doctor exists.

Now I'm back to confused, So Hurts Doctor is not the original incarnation of the doctor? (pre-doctor who show) I was always under the impression that the time wars was something that occurred prior to "Dr Who" which led to the doctor being the only one.

[Paulbot]

Now I'm back to confused, So Hurts Doctor is not the original incarnation of the doctor? (pre-doctor who show) I was always under the impression that the time wars was something that occurred prior to "Dr Who" which led to the doctor being the only one.

That's right, he's not the first. Until the show came back in 2005 there were lots of Time Lords doing their thing. The Time War happened while the show wasn't on air.

But, if you've only watched the show since the beginning of 2005 series, then yes John Hurt's doctor came before all the ones that have been the stars of the show since (Chris Eccelston, David Tennant, Matt Smith). (It's just that the everything in the classic series and all those other versions of the Doctor happened first, before the Time War)

[griffin]

Maybe this might help visualise it better....

Original series of Doctor Who (1963-1989)
1st - William Hartnell (and Richard Hurndall in the 5 Doctors)
2nd - Patrick Troughton
3rd - Jon Pertwee
4th - Tom Baker
5th - Peter Davison
6th - Colin Baker
7th - Silvestor McCoy

Doctor Who movie (1996)
8th - Paul McGann (it was hoped the Movie would spawn a new series)

The Time War occurs after the Movie, but during this Doctor's incarnation.

(McGann re-appears in the 2013 mini-sode "Night of the Doctor", which showed the end of the Time War, and him regenerating into John Hurt)

9th - John Hurt (first revealed in early 2013 in "Name of the Doctor" and slotted in as the "real" 9th Doctor, based on the regeneration events of the "Night of the Doctor")

(Hurt is then shown to regenerate into Christopher Eccelston at the end of "Day of the Doctor"

New series of Doctor Who (2005-present)
10th - Christopher Eccelston (was 9th before the 2013 revelation that Hurt is the 9th)
11th - David Tennant (was 10th before the 2013 revelation that Hurt is the 9th)
12th - Matt Smith (was 11th before the 2013 revelation that Hurt is the 9th)
13th - Peter Capaldi (would have been 12th, if he was introduced before Hurt was revealed as the 9th)


Did that help at all, or just make it more confusing?


(how geeky am I for being able to list all the actors for the Doctor from memory and in order... :o)

[Demonac]

1st - William Hartnell (and Richard Hurndall in the 3 Doctors)

(how geeky am I for being able to list all the actors for the Doctor from memory and in order... :o)

Not geeky enough. Richard Hurndall was in The 5 Doctors.

[UltraMarginal]

Maybe this might help visualise it better....

Original series of Doctor Who (1963-1989)
1st - William Hartnell (and Richard Hurndall in the 3 Doctors)
2nd - Patrick Troughton
3rd - Jon Pertwee
4th - Tom Baker
5th - Peter Davison
6th - Colin Baker
7th - Silvestor McCoy

Doctor Who movie (1996)
8th - Paul McGann (it was hoped the Movie would spawn a new series)

The Time War occurs after the Movie, but during this Doctor's incarnation.

(McGann re-appears in the 2013 mini-sode "Night of the Doctor", which showed the end of the Time War, and him regenerating into John Hurt)

9th - John Hurt (first revealed in early 2013 in "Name of the Doctor" and slotted in as the "real" 9th Doctor, based on the regeneration events of the "Night of the Doctor")

(Hurt is then shown to regenerate into Christopher Eccelston at the end of "Day of the Doctor"

New series of Doctor Who (2005-present)
10th - Christopher Eccelston (was 9th before the 2013 revelation that Hurt is the 9th)
11th - David Tennant (was 10th before the 2013 revelation that Hurt is the 9th)
12th - Matt Smith (was 11th before the 2013 revelation that Hurt is the 9th)
13th - Peter Capaldi (would have been 12th, if he was introduced before Hurt was revealed as the 9th)


Did that help at all, or just make it more confusing?


(how geeky am I for being able to list all the actors for the Doctor from memory and in order... :o)

That actually helps a lot. thank you.


Not geeky enough. Richard Hurndall was in The 5 Doctors.

Showoff:rolleyes:

:D

[GoktimusPrime]

Yeah, to me the Time Wars has always felt like a canonical excuse for the Doctor's years of absence between the 1996 movie and 2005 new series.


Not geeky enough. Richard Hurndall was in The 5 Doctors.
And don't forget Peter Cushing as "Doctor Who." (</cheek> :p) :p :p
He'd be pretty damn awesome as the War Doctor (http://deathstarpr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/DeathStarLaser.png). ;)
</cheek> :p

[griffin]

Not geeky enough. Richard Hurndall was in The 5 Doctors.

Bugger me... I knew there'd be something, that someone like you would make sure was pointed out. :p
I was too busy making sure I got all those dates right and posting it in a hurry, I totally missed checking every detail. :o

[Paul Agnew]

And then there are the supposed 'previous incarnations' of The Doctor as witnessed in "The Brain Of Morbius". But the less said of that, the better. :p

[UltraMarginal]

Bugger me... I knew there'd be something, that someone like you would make sure was pointed out. :p
I was too busy making sure I got all those dates right and posting it in a hurry, I totally missed checking every detail. :o

Obviously you''re not a "True Fan" :p

I was impressed. and all the other little tidbits that people keep adding to this conversation are makeing me want to go back and watch all the doctor Who I've missed, which is most of the original material.

I just wish it would be released as seasons rather than story arcs so My Chronological Ordering needs could be easily satisfied.

[Hursticon]

I just wish it would be released as seasons rather than story arcs so My Chronological Ordering needs could be easily satisfied.

My feelings exactly UM; I know this is pretty much an impossibility with the 1st two Doctors, but from Pertwee forward - If Star Trek can release each and every episode in seasonal offerings and sell extremely well, I don't see why The Doctor couldn't be. :cool:

[UltraMarginal]

I think it's because it sells well enough as it's already presented in little story arc sets.

Once the cash flow from that format slows down, then they'll release as a seasonal item.

[griffin]

I was just watching the "Adventure in Time and Space" special (that doco-drama of the start of DrWho in 1963), and it was quite fascinating. Well worth the watch if a fan of DrWho and wanted to see how it all began... with a bumpy start that almost ended after just the first story.
It was nice to see how they made some of the special effects noises, like the Tardis materialising noise and the opening credits visuals.
The accuracy of something that happened 50 years ago is questionable, especially since most of the people involved are now dead (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verity_Lambert)... but if true, it was nice to see that William Hartnell had a respect for the audience - noting that he had to be consistent with how he did things (like where the door lever was on the Tardis console) because the kids watching would pick up on any contradictions. (like in any fandom)
Despite being a grumpy old man, it's possible (from that doco-drama) that he was invested into the show and its fiction to make sure it worked.


I came across this earlier in the year, which might be repetitious to some, but fascinating to watch and listen to - all the different opening themes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1AnTi1X2QM), showing the evolution of the opening credits and music over the 50-ish years.
It's surprising to see that the signature riff/tune is the same since 1963, but just recorded in different ways over the 50 years. Even Star Trek didn't keep their signature tune, over their almost-50 years... and that's probably the next longest lasting TV/movie universe.

And for anyone really keen, the second part has themes from spinoffs and specials (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPbiuAY_AWY).
They are official, so looks to be taken off some special release DVD from the BBC.

This other video by the same youtube user appears to be done by that person (not an official video), which is an anthology of the regenerations (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXCpY_3Sac8) (up until 2010)... which is likely to be updated soon with the three new regenerations shown this year. (and it noted a regeneration from McGann to Eccelston, which we now know doesn't happen)


While I'm at it, for anyone who wants to immerse themselves into some fringe "non/conjectural canon" of DrWho, here are some short videos I recommend....

The Curse of the Fatal Death (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-wDPoC6GM) (1999 charity special) - Rowen Atkinson leads several stars playing several incarnations of the Doctor. (including Richard E Grant, who also featured in a 40th Anniversary animation as the Doctor, but was also in the 50th Anniversary season as the as the puppet of the Great Intelligence)
Dimensions in Time (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQCeMIQpFBc) (30th Anniversary charity special) - The Rani is trying to capture the various Doctors, featuring Pertwee(3), Baker (4), Davison (5), Baker (6), McCoy (7) and several various companions from just about every Doctor. Plus some outtakes and edits (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ec22YS215Jk) posted on youtube by one of the writers.
Time Crash (2008 charity special) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szuP0oBZX4g) - David Tennant meets Peter Davidson as Doctors (they probably meet in real life quite often, since they are related - Tennant married Davison's daughter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Moffett) three years after she played the Doctor's Daughter in the series)
2007 charity special (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fzj6AFqIoio) - David Tennant and Catherine Tate (Donna) in a classroom as teacher and student (respectively).
2005 charity special (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7IylzJNaW5k) - an extended version of David Tennant's introduction as the new Doctor... explaining how Rose seemed so quick to accept him before the next episode, and why they weren't in Barcelona, or why the Doctor was having side effects to the regeneration in the Christmas Invasion.
1985 charity special (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nb7iGHWSuck) - Doctors 2, 3, 5 & 6 and about 12 companions presenting donation cheques to the charity.

How about some outtakes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTDWXahrpjM) to finish things off?

[Paulbot]

2007 charity special - David Tennant and Catherine Tate (Donna) in a classroom as teacher and student (respectively).
While it's tentatively Doctor Who connected, I love this clip and have watched this so many times I know it by heart. Including the sonnet.

[millhouse]

I came across this earlier in the year, which might be repetitious to some, but fascinating to watch and listen to - all the different opening themes (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1AnTi1X2QM), showing the evolution of the opening credits and music over the 50-ish years.
It's surprising to see that the signature riff/tune is the same since 1963, but just recorded in different ways over the 50 years. Even Star Trek didn't keep their signature tune, over their almost-50 years... and that's probably the next longest lasting TV/movie universe.

While I can't say I'm a fan of the show (never held any interest, never really watched it, might really enjoy it if I had the time to add it to the ever-long list of things to check out), that theme is haunting as hell, and that YouTube video was awesome!

[GoktimusPrime]

What Steven Moffat Doesn't Understand About Grief, And Why It's Killing Doctor Who (http://groupthink.jezebel.com/steven-moffat-doesn-t-understand-grief-and-it-s-killin-1472921976)

[GoktimusPrime]

So initially Moffatt said that the regeneration count hasn't changed (http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/24/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-up-the-whole-doctor-regeneration-problem-sort-of-4199592/), but then he's since changed his mind (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-christmas-spoilers-matt-2847509) and now says that not only does the War Doctor now count as the 9th Doctor, but that both of Tennants regenerations do indeed count. So now it is apparently:
+ Hurt = 9th Doctor
+ Eccleston = 10th
+ Tennant = 11th and 12th Doctors
+ Smith = 13th Doctor
+ Capaldi = ????? :confused: ?????
---------------------------------------

I'm curious to know what other people's opinions are on this. Would you rather the story just discard the 12 regeneration rule for the Doctor and just accept Capaldi as the 13th Doctor, or would you prefer something else that somehow maintains the 12 regen rule in tact? I'd prefer the latter. I'd personally like to see the Doctor actually die and get buried on Trenzalore, and have Capaldi come in as an entirely new and separate Time Lord (possible now that Gallifrey has survived) who perhaps assumes the title of the Doctor (perhaps even actually call himself "Doctor Who" as to differentiate himself from the Doctor) and carries on his legacy. Not sure how you'd allow a new Doctor to inherit the old Doctor's Tardis though, since we do see the Doctor being buried in his own Tardis. The idea of a new Doctor simply setting his Tardis to look like an old British police box seems silly to me.

[Demonac]

According to the serial 'Brain of Morbius', what we consider the 1st Doctor, is actually the 9th incarnation.
Personally, I ignore the whole 12 regeneration limit. It's not like they can't hand wave it away anyway.

[Golden Phoenix]

So initially Moffatt said that the regeneration count hasn't changed (http://metro.co.uk/2013/11/24/doctor-who-steven-moffat-clears-up-the-whole-doctor-regeneration-problem-sort-of-4199592/), but then he's since changed his mind (http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/doctor-who-christmas-spoilers-matt-2847509) and now says that not only does the War Doctor now count as the 9th Doctor, but that both of Tennants regenerations do indeed count. So now it is apparently:
+ Hurt = 9th Doctor
+ Tennant = 10th and 11th Doctors
+ Smith = 12th Doctor
+ Capaldi = ????? :confused: ?????

---------------------------------------

I'm curious to know what other people's opinions are on this. Would you rather the story just discard the 12 regeneration rule for the Doctor and just accept Capaldi as the 13th Doctor, or would you prefer something else that somehow maintains the 12 regen rule in tact? I'd prefer the latter. I'd personally like to see the Doctor actually die and get buried on Trenzalore, and have Capaldi come in as an entirely new and separate Time Lord (possible now that Gallifrey has survived) who perhaps assumes the title of the Doctor (perhaps even actually call himself "Doctor Who" as to differentiate himself from the Doctor) and carries on his legacy. Not sure how you'd allow a new Doctor to inherit the old Doctor's Tardis though, since we do see the Doctor being buried in his own Tardis. The idea of a new Doctor simply setting his Tardis to look like an old British police box seems silly to me.

You've left out Eccleston.

It would make it:
+ Hurt = 9th Doctor
+ Eccleston = 10th
+ Tennant = 11th and 12th Doctors
+ Smith = 13th Doctor
+ Capaldi = ????? :confused: ?????

At the end of the day it doesn't matter. It has been established long ago that Time Lords can be given additional regenerations. The Master's whole thing used to be that he had used up all of his and wanted to steal the Doctor's remaning ones. The Valeyard was pretty much the same only he was an off-spring of one of the Doctor's regenerations (the penultimate one according to the Master).

There are also a couple of moments they could use to write their way out of this problem.

When River poisons the Doctor in 'Let's Kill Hitler' she then later heals him using one of her regenerations and could have given him more.

The Master then died and was brought back to life by the Time Lords. After that he has more regenerations again. He uses one to turn from Derek Jacobi to John Simm. This would imply that when the Time Lords restored him they either gave him 12 new regenerations or he regained them naturally as a result of being brought back to life.

If the latter is true then the Doctor could have naturally had the count reset when he was brought back to life after dieing in 'The Night of the Doctor'

Or they could just say that the elixer he drank not only triggered a regeneration but gave him more.

[griffin]

You missed Eccelston in that list (see my revised listing - and if Tennant counts as two, that makes Capaldi 14). NEVER MIND - GP BEAT ME TO IT BY 4 MINUTES.
I think the "12 rule" is a good plot device, to encourage urgency and fear, to find a way of getting a new cycle before he dies (like the Master tried at one stage). And if the Morbius episode is to be included as fact (before they brought in the "12" rule), it could be explained as a previous cycle... in that this isn't really his first set of 12 lives. (we certainly know that Moffatt is one who likes retconning things... so who knows what new twists he'll create that re-writes everything fans have relied on all these years)

[BigTransformerTrev]

Just a question: Do they ever go into any detail just how The Daleks and The Time Lords were destroying the rest of the universe with their war? You see all these races show up that talk about how they lost their planets during the time war but I've yet to see/hear anything about Time Lord space fleets or armies marching across globes. Did they just fight it with Tardis's or what? I know the end game was that either only the Time Lords would survive or the Daleks would, but what happened during the war? How were these battles fought?

[griffin]

From the article in Gok's posting...

POSSIBLE SPOILERS



Asked about the Christmas episode and the regeneration of Doctor Who, Moffat confirmed Matt was the 13th Doctor and told the Mirror: "The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.If this is a warning of the next episode, Moffatt has now suddenly retconned the order again. If Tennant used up two regenerations, why not make mention of it before now... unless that's the point - The Doctor thought he had a life left, so didn't panick about it yet.

Still, if that other Tennant "regeneration" was something he knew was a regeneration, why keep it from the fans for the last three years?

Retconning the order twice in one year, to shuffle Smith from 11 to 13, is a bit much.

Since he wrote it into the most recent episode that Capaldi was number 13, it shows that Moffatt has only JUST retconned it for the next episode... contradicting his own work in the last episode.
If he is now making Capaldi as number 14, he missed the opportunity of the Valeyard story between the 12 & 13th Doctors. :(



Waitasec... I just looked at the dates of the two articles - 24th & 25th. So in the space of a day, after fan feedback/reactions to "Day of the Doctor" he changed his mind about the numbering.

On the 24th Moffatt said...


‘If you worry about such things, and I do, then I specifically said John Hurt’s Doctor doesn’t use the title. [Matt Smith's Doctor] is in his 12th body

On the 25th Moffatt said...


Asked about the Christmas episode and the regeneration of Doctor Who, Moffat confirmed Matt was the 13th Doctor and told the Mirror: "The 12 regenerations limit is a central part of Doctor Who mythology - science fiction is all about rules, you can't just casually break them.
"So if the Doctor can never change again, what's Peter Capaldi doing in the Christmas special?"


:confused:

[griffin]

I almost forgot the new DR Who episode tonight. (Already started on ch 2 in VIC & NSW)
Hope they don't retcon anything else, or go with the recent bit about this really being the 13th doctor.

[CBratron]

Can't say I liked this Christmas special. Nothing about it was Christmassy.
At least we scored a new doctor out of it.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Considering the Doctor was just over 900 when he got his last body, then had had it for a few hundred years already before he went to Trensalor, THEN was on Trensalor for Primus-knows how many centuries (300 years minimum but prob around 5/600), he must have doubled his age just using his 13th incarnation. At least he looked after that one a while ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/tardisturn_5797.gifhttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/spoileralert.jpghttp://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/tardisturn_5797.gif



spoilers ahead





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spoilers ahead




The most interesting part of this episode was the basic admission that Matt Smith is indeed the Thirteenth Doctor and at the very end of his regeneration cycle. Story ended with the Time Lords granting him a new life cycle, so I guess this means he has a whole new thirteen set of lives. But what's also intriguing is what this might actually mean for the Doctor... the very end of this episode seems to suggest that this new regeneration is a lot "deeper" than previous ones - probably because it's a "reset" regeneration. The new Doctor mentions having new kidneys, so the change appears to be a lot more than just 'cosmetic.' He also seems to have lost his knowledge on piloting the Tardis, but I'm not sure if that's actual knowledge loss or post-regenerative trauma, which the Doctor has experienced before.

Ssooo... if this is a 'lifecycle restart,' does it mean that Capaldi is the New First Doctor or is he the Fourteenth Doctor? :confused:


Can't say I liked this Christmas special. Nothing about it was Christmassy.
I actually preferred this episode because of that. I've never been fond of stories that see extra-terrestrial aliens 'randomly' observing human rituals... and why just Christmas? If the Doctor has come to love Earth so much that he wants to adopt human customs, why don't we also see him observing Ramadan or Eid or Passover or Kwanzaa or Diwali or Sol Invictus or the Lunar New Year et al.? :confused: Having a town called Xmas that happened to be in a permanent state of Xmas on the planet Trenzalore was already asking the audience to massively suspend disbelief. Besides, we still had that thing in the background of the Oswald's Xmas dinner being in wait. Not to mention the whole Churchy reference with that Borg-Church. :p

[SMHFConvoy]

Ssooo... if this is a 'lifecycle restart,' does it mean that Capaldi is the New First Doctor or is he the Fourteenth Doctor?

John Hurt became 9. Eccelston 10. Tennant 11. Smith 12.

Capaldi 13. The Gallifreians even say, "all thirteen regenerations are here..." in Day of the Doctor.

[CBratron]

I think you're looking a little too deeply into the new kidneys thing. Every cell in his body undergoes regeneration so he gets new everything each time.

My dislike for this special probably stems from my general dislike of Matt Smith just because he's not Eccleston or Tennant. From "fishfingers and custard" the hate was set.

Like i said. I'm glad we have a new doctor.

[GoktimusPrime]

John Hurt became 9. Eccelston 10. Tennant 11. Smith 12.

Capaldi 13. The Gallifreians even say, "all thirteen regenerations are here..." in Day of the Doctor.
Tennant regenerated twice though, and Smith's Doctor did explicitly explain this to Clara in tonight's episode and said that he was the thirteenth and final Doctor. He was only able to regenerate at the end because after Clara pleaded with the Time Lords through the crack, they granted the Doctor a new life cycle. But if they hadn't had done that, then Smith's Doctor would've been the thirteenth and final Doctor, which is why:
1. We see the Doctor age instead of regenerating
2. We see the Doctor surrender to the Daleks at the end with what he expected to be his dying breaths, daring the Daleks to kill him. Then the back smiling crack in the sky granted him a new life cycle.

Perhaps the Time Lord who said "all thirteen regenerations are here" wasn't aware at that exact time (they were under pressure ;)) that Tennant's Doctor had regenerated twice.


I think you're looking a little too deeply into the new kidneys thing. Every cell in his body undergoes regeneration so he gets new everything each time.
Fair point. :) Yeah, not sure if what's happening to him is just standard post regenerative trauma or signs of a new regenerative life cycle. :o


My dislike for this special probably stems from my general dislike of Matt Smith just because he's not Eccleston or Tennant. From "fishfingers and custard" the hate was set.

Like i said. I'm glad we have a new doctor.
I don't hate Matt Smith's Doctor, but I'm not hugely fond of it either. Baker and Tennant are still by far my favourite Doctors. :D

[griffin]

I think between writing D.o.t.D. story and T.o.f.D. story, Moffat had a new idea that contradicted something that was already filmed... and looked/sounded good for dramatic effect.
If he had already decided that Smith was the 13th, he wouldn't have included that line, or the glimps of Capaldi's eyes in DotD... as it makes no sense to include it. There was no need for it to be included, or quoted, as fans would have seen all the previous ones, and the story/plot would have been the same, without fans needing to see Capaldi as a teaser.

The thing that bugs me (now, even more than it did when I first whinged about it a few months back), is how Moffat suddenly had the Doctor age 300 years just to set up the plot device in DotD (to have enough time to do the calculations in his Sonic Screwdriver, and in his head) without him physically aging... and yet in this episode Moffat has the Doctor age 300 years (quoted in the episode) before Clara returns (stuck to the Tardis) and he is looking very aged.
So for one plot set-up of 300 years, Moffat doesn't make the Doctor age a day, but then a second plot device of 300 years, he's a withered old man who needed a walking stick.
Moffat doesn't make a good Editor, if he has to contradict himself as if it was the only option to resolve one plot device in DotD... and keeps retconning things, to the displeasure of fans who have now "lost" two regenerations. All those fan stories and theories of who the next two Doctors would be, not to mention the guidebooks, and web resources... all made useless in the space of two episodes.

As for the episode itself, it had some uncomfortable moments (unnecessary nudity plot device), and some funny bits (the Smith Doctor certainly likes making friends with former enemies)... and good wrap up of the Transalore plot device from N.o.t.D. but the timing of the story felt clumsy.
And just like the Pandorica episode, we have all these warring races together at one time and space, when most existed at differing time-periods to each other (based on when the Doctor has defeated or seemingly eradicated them). And again with the endless Daleks - they seem to be like a virus, that keeps coming back no matter how much it looks like the new Series has destroyed them.

He's also put way too much emphasis on the Time Lords being a dangerous race... as in, it is in the best interest of the universe that they remain lost, even though the Daleks are taking over, and the Time Lords are the only ones who could possibly stop them.
Bring them back, and if they really have the power of time, then prevent the Kaleds becoming Daleks in the first place (like the 4th Doctor was supposed to have done).

And one last fan-rant :p if a Time Lord can cause that much devastation when regenerating (according to the new Series), then why wouldn't it be used as a weapon against the Daleks. A couple Time Lords could destroy the whole fleet by sacrificing a couple of their regenerations. (and if the rest of them have the power to restart a Life-Cycle, they could just get a recharge later)
So many holes for this poor tragic fanboy... :o

[SMHFConvoy]

Stop over thinking it. It's fiction, science fiction :D

It's not like they're going to cancel a successful TV show :D:D

[VERT]

I thought he aged this time cause he spent that time without the TARDIS. So maybe the Tardis helps with the aging. May not be true, but it helps made it work in my head.:D

[Paulbot]

I liked this, not as much as the 50th special though. I did appreciate the way that all the overarching 11 Doctor storylines got pretty much neatly tied into a (timetravelling) bow.

When the wooden Cyberman appeared I thought "great this explains..." and then I paused. When was that exactly? Then I realised the mysterious wooden robot was from MTMTE (and still hasn't been answered) :o


I thought he aged this time cause he spent that time without the TARDIS. So maybe the Tardis helps with the aging. May not be true, but it helps made it work in my head.:D

I had the same thought. Travelling in the Time Vortex is probably very good for your skin. The Doctor keeps running, because if he stays still, stays in one place for a long time, he grows old. He'd grown old before he stole the TARDIS afterall. The Time Vortex boost from "Bad Wolf Rose" keeps Captain Jack looking young despite him having several centuries of life too.

[GoktimusPrime]

The physical aging thing bugged me for the same reasons griffin mentioned . . . then I accepted it after Smith Doctor explained to Clara that he was the last regeneration. For me, when the War Doctor "broke the promise of being the Doctor," it somehow 'dropped' him from the Doctor's life cycle, but after DotD reestablished the War Doctor as the 9th, then it bumped up the regeneration count, stripping Smith Doctor of his final regeneration.

Aargh... fans shouldn't have to try to make awkward explanations... the story should make sense within itself. :(


As for the episode itself, it had some uncomfortable moments (unnecessary nudity plot device), and some funny bits (the Smith Doctor certainly likes making friends with former enemies)... and good wrap up of the Transalore plot device from N.o.t.D. but the timing of the story felt clumsy.
The nudity thing was weird, but Michael Bay has desensitised me to such subtle acts of lewdness. :p I did quite like Handles. Poor Handles. :(


And one last fan-rant :p if a Time Lord can cause that much devastation when regenerating (according to the new Series), then why wouldn't it be used as a weapon against the Daleks. A couple Time Lords could destroy the whole fleet by sacrificing a couple of their regenerations. (and if the rest of them have the power to restart a Life-Cycle, they could just get a recharge later)
So many holes for this poor tragic fanboy... :o
Not all of his regenerations were so dramatic though... perhaps it's unpredictable as to whether or not a regeneration will expel massive amounts of energy (if at all); as in one of those "individual results may vary." But something I did wonder about when I watched DotD was, during the scenes of the Daleks invading Gallifrey and shooting down Gallifreyans soldiers and civilians... why didn't any of them start regenerating? Or why didn't the Daleks use disintegration weapons? We see their bodies fall rather than disintegrating. Surely if you're at war with a species who can regenerate, then you'd use disintegration weaponry! Or at very least head-shot each fallen body?

But yeah, if some of them would've regenerated, you'd think at least a few of them would be destructive enough to damage the Dalek Fleet. Heck, send crews of Time Lord commandos to storm Dalek ships -- as they fall they'll regenerate, and some of them should do so while expelling a good amount of destructive energy - they get up again and continue fighting. Being a Time Lord soldier must be like being a soldier in a computer game because you get to freakin' respawn! :p


Stop over thinking it. It's fiction, science fiction :D
Yeah but good scifi/fantasy should make sense in the context of it's own world - e.g. Tolkien, Bladerunner, Beast Wars etc.


It's not like they're going to cancel a successful TV show :D:D
^This. ;) The new Doctor Who series have become more like Michael Bay's Transformers... great when you first watch them, but things fall apart when you think about the story/plot in detail. :(

[CBratron]

Come to think of it, where did Handles come from? I tuned in at 7:30 to find it'd already started. Did he get picked up in the first five minutes or something?

[Paulbot]

Aargh... fans shouldn't have to try to make awkward explanations... the story should make sense within itself.

The story makes sense within itself. Ask the millions watching who aren't captial F "fans" (the who know Doctor Who back to front) and it wouldn't be confusing to them. The Doctor stayed on Christmas for hundreds of years and grew old fighting a war to protect people.

If you're a fan, it also makes sense. If you're a Timelord fighting wars is not good for you, it ages you, makes you tied and your exterior appearance reflects that. The War Doctor grew old in the Time War too. The Doctor doesn't stay in one place for a long time and here's why. He grows old. Adventures in Time and Space in the TARDIS preventing/retarding ageing is not an awkward explanation... it makes sense and is not particularly inconsistent with anything we've seen? *

* Unless you count the sentence in the third paragraph on the 124th page of the tie-in novel that was published by the BBC in 1967 and is therefore canon. :rolleyes: The sentence has a typo, it was obviously meant to be semicolon

[GoktimusPrime]

While I have an interest in Dr. Who and enjoy following the series, I'm by no means a fan. I should've just said "audiences" in my last post rather than "fans." Your reasoning is sound, but it wasn't apparent to me at the time that I was watching the episode. Perhaps something like a quick line to remind audiences about how the War Doctor had aged during the Time Wars might have been helpful.

[Verno]

I'm not going to lie -- I didn't enjoy the Xmas special. I've only been a casual fan since the series started again, keeping abreast of most of the major stories and so forth, but something was amiss for me.

It said that the battle on and above Trenzalore wiped out every species except the Daleks, so in the future, only the Dalek's are left..?

[Paulbot]

In this ep? The other aliens gave up and went home (the Mother Superior said) except the Daleks.

[BigTransformerTrev]

The most interesting part of this episode was the basic admission that Matt Smith is indeed the Thirteenth Doctor and at the very end of his regeneration cycle. Story ended with the Time Lords granting him a new life cycle, so I guess this means he has a whole new thirteen set of lives. But what's also intriguing is what this might actually mean for the Doctor... the very end of this episode seems to suggest that this new regeneration is a lot "deeper" than previous ones - probably because it's a "reset" regeneration. The new Doctor mentions having new kidneys, so the change appears to be a lot more than just 'cosmetic.' He also seems to have lost his knowledge on piloting the Tardis, but I'm not sure if that's actual knowledge loss or post-regenerative trauma, which the Doctor has experienced before.

Ssooo... if this is a 'lifecycle restart,' does it mean that Capaldi is the New First Doctor or is he the Fourteenth Doctor? :confused:





People tend to forget that most iconic piece of Dr Who history which fully explains why he can have more than 13 regenerations. In an alternate reality the Doctor (played superbly by Rowan Atkinson) went through his last half doz regenerations in about 3 minutes. But then 'even the universe was not ready to loose the Doctor' so time and space itself gave him another regeneration -

- complete with Dalek bumps! :p

[Golden Phoenix]

In regards to the Doctor aging, he has done that before. When the Master had the 10th Doctor captive he aged him with his Laser Screwdriver by hundreds of years and he became an old man. He did it again but by a lot more and he became this little gnome thing.

They also did a time skip on the Doctor twice in Time of the Doctor. The first time they specifically mention it had been 300 years and he had aged a bit and needed a cane. The next time (when the Doctor had help from the Silence) they do not mention how long it had been. It could have been another 300 years, if not longer, which would explain why he looks so old by the end.


He's also put way too much emphasis on the Time Lords being a dangerous race... as in, it is in the best interest of the universe that they remain lost, even though the Daleks are taking over, and the Time Lords are the only ones who could possibly stop them.
Bring them back, and if they really have the power of time, then prevent the Kaleds becoming Daleks in the first place (like the 4th Doctor was supposed to have done).

They say that the danger of the Time Lords coming back wasn't because of the Time Lords themselves, but because of the Daleks restarting the Time War with them. Even if the Time Lords came came back in peace, the Daleks would open fire and the Time War would start all over again.

That being said, it has been shown in the past that some of the Time Lords (like the High Council) are also pretty dangerous. Remember that the High Council's final plan included the destruction of all of creation (a dick move in my books). They have also tried to screw over the Doctor by rigging a trial against him and bribed the Valeyard (a being spawned from the Doctor's penultimate regeneration) with the offer of more regenerations (another dick move in my books). The High Council has shown that they are also dangerous because of their arrogance and contempt for other species.


But something I did wonder about when I watched DotD was, during the scenes of the Daleks invading Gallifrey and shooting down Gallifreyans soldiers and civilians... why didn't any of them start regenerating? Or why didn't the Daleks use disintegration weapons? We see their bodies fall rather than disintegrating. Surely if you're at war with a species who can regenerate, then you'd use disintegration weaponry! Or at very least head-shot each fallen body?

It has been established that a Time Lord can have the regeneration process stopped or be killed in a particular way that prevents the process starting. The 8th Doctor died in a space ship crash. River died when both her hearts were fried. The Silence also knew they could kill a Time Lord mid-regeneration by 'killing' them again. The 5th Doctor was concerned the disease he had picked up could stop the regeneration process implying that there were diseases that could. River almost killed the Doctor with a poison that would prevent a regeneration (that being said if they knew he didn't have any left they wouldn't have had to bother.)

Since the Dalek's weapons appear to be an instant-death-beam for other species, you could assume it is the same for Time Lords, hence the no regenerations seen.

[griffin]

They say that the danger of the Time Lords coming back wasn't because of the Time Lords themselves, but because of the Daleks restarting the Time War with them. Even if the Time Lords came came back in peace, the Daleks would open fire and the Time War would start all over again.

That was part of the danger that I was referring to - that their very existence would make them a target or catalyst in creating a war. But that's not logical, as the Daleks were waging war against the entire universe anyway, and would conquer it quicker without a force powerful enough to at least hold them at bay (the Time Lords).
Just because the "Doctor Who" story universe only focused on the Daleks targeting the Time Lords, it doesn't mean they were the only race they wanted to destroy... it's not like the Daleks would be a quiet peaceful race if the Timelords never came back.
And yet other races blamed the Timelords (according the Moffat), for being caught up in the crossfire of Timewars... but they would have died at the hands of the Daleks anyway if the Timelords didn't exist to fight back. (that was another flaw of the T.o.t.D. as the Church were trying to prevent a war by keeping the Timelords out of this universe, but in reality it meant no one would then be left to stop the Daleks from taking over the universe)

[GoktimusPrime]

Apparently from a British TV guide...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/doctorwhotvguide_zps214c363c.jpg

[Gutsman Heavy]

Heh, funny cos it's true

[MayzaPrime]

I can't believe Bianca is put out by Nikki's arrival in East Enders

Oh and the Doctors description is funny also :p

[Hursticon]

Rather enjoyed Matt Smith's parting episode, I enjoyed it all the more after a 2nd viewing. :cool:

His parting speech was quite the emotion-jerker, as for me at least this is the 1st Doctor I've had an opportunity to sit through from start to finish and seeing Amelia's visage impart those farewell words really drove the whole thing home. :o

Capaldi made a brilliant entrance I feel, not liking the colour of his new kidneys made me chuckle quite a bit but I am quite curious to see what happens next though. :D

[GoktimusPrime]

When we saw Child Amelia running around the Tardis, I noticed that they kept obscuring her face... to me it looked like a different actress from Caitlin Blackwood (the original actress who played Child Amelia and Karen Gillan's cousin IRL). Caitlin Blackwood would be thirteen now - perhaps she's grown too tall to play Child Amelia? IMO she's growing to look more like Karen Gillan now.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000239708605/137d953cdebf0816492b6d111ce0cfb8.jpeg

[VERT]

Well she is her cousin

[Paulbot]

It was definitely a different actress playing young Amelia. Caitlin was having to explain it to people on Twitter.

[Hursticon]

Yeah I thought that might've been the case - Not to worry, I think they conveyed what they were trying to get across. ;):)

[VERT]

I understand why they did it. She is growing up. It happens to kids quite fast

[griffin]

Law & Order UK is an interesting program to watch now (on channel 1/12 Wednesdays I think), with Peter Davison (5th Doctor) and the actress who played Tennant's companion "Martha Jones", both playing roles in the Prosecutor's office.
It's a bit like the surrealistic "The Stranger" stories, with an aged Doctor and companion, who aren't referred to by their DrWho names.


Don't hate me, but I've been wanting to post up this for some time now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoGzuNxOj2Q)... a flashback to 1988. :p

[GoktimusPrime]

A discussion w/ someone on FB... Smith Doctor is the Doctor's 13th incarnation, but the 11th Doctor. <---thoughts?

[Hursticon]

Swap the word "Incarnation" with "Regeneration" and I'm happy with that rationale. :)

[GoktimusPrime]

Apparently the new Doctor will be more like the classic Doctors. I hope this is true. :)
http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-08-01/it-was-time-to-get-rid-of-old-doctor-who-says-steven-moffat

[BigTransformerTrev]

I liked the last two doctors (barefoot on the moon :p). I just want them to bring the scarf back :D

[BigTransformerTrev]

Only 10 minutes till the new series kicks off - and naturally my toddler is wide wake and hyper :eek:. Guessing I'll be avoiding spoilers until I can download it I guess :rolleyes:

Edit: got to watch it after all. Not bad, certainly went from wacky to dark fairly quickly. Not massively keen on the new doc, but then felt that way about the old one and he grew on me.

[GoktimusPrime]

The Doctor often undergoes post-regeneration trauma (the Eleventh Doctor binged on stuff like fish fingers in custard etc.), and this one seems to be quite a doozy, but it was something that the Doctor was expecting, hence the phone call. ;) Having said that, I felt that it dragged on too long, it wasn't really until the Doctor and Clara met up in the restaurant that we started to see this Doctor's true colours (the way that he allowed Clara to believe that he was abandoning her was interesting). I also found it interesting that the episode hinted that the Doctor may have deliberately (albeit subconsciously) copied someone else's face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Iucundus), which would canonically explain why we're seeing it again (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y5FFsKNUins/UXLHH0QohrI/AAAAAAAALr4/Cir8CBXv0ds/s1600/watching+it+burn.png).

[Sky Shadow]

The Doctor often undergoes post-regeneration trauma (the Eleventh Doctor binged on stuff like fish fingers in custard etc.), and this one seems to be quite a doozy, but it was something that the Doctor was expecting, hence the phone call. ;) Having said that, I felt that it dragged on too long, it wasn't really until the Doctor and Clara met up in the restaurant that we started to see this Doctor's true colours (the way that he allowed Clara to believe that he was abandoning her was interesting). I also found it interesting that the episode hinted that the Doctor may have deliberately (albeit subconsciously) copied someone else's face (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Caecilius_Iucundus), which would canonically explain why we're seeing it again (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Y5FFsKNUins/UXLHH0QohrI/AAAAAAAALr4/Cir8CBXv0ds/s1600/watching+it+burn.png).

The Sixth Doctor started off his regeneration by trying to strangle his companion, so this is an improvement. It's also not the first time that the series has come up with an in-universe reason why a regeneration resembles a previous character, i.e. Romana II

[griffin]

The actor played two previous parts in Doctor Who/Torchwood in the last couple years... so unlike Colin Baker (who played a Gallifreyian guardsman during Tom Baker's time), the writers are said to have decided to use it. Hence the big mystery over his new face, and why it was "chosen". (the second regeneration suggested that the Timelords could choose a regeneration form... and Romana could pick one at will, but that one was more likely an exception to the rule, possibly through some other mind-control method - some other regenerations were noted as being a lottery if I recall... so we could see yet another retcon here)

The mystery will be interesting... hopefully. Maybe it's the season story-arc, like Clara in the last season being everywhere through time. And I think the mysterious lady at the end is the one responsible.


It's wasted drama if they don't have a story focussing time on him overcoming a regeneration (most on-screen regenerations since Tom Baker's intro have been over-played a bit to pad out the story), but I think they got too close to the feel of Colin Baker's unpleasant introduction... and first impressions can make or break a Doctor.

[BigTransformerTrev]

It goes to show that every other sci-fi genre takes cues from Transformers though. Grimlock in TF4 was waaaay to big to be the approximate size of a T-Rex and the T-Rex in last nights Dr Who episode was freakin huge! :eek:

Now for Vector Prime to turn into a Tardis ;)

[Paulbot]

It goes to show that every other sci-fi genre takes cues from Transformers though. Grimlock in TF4 was waaaay to big to be the approximate size of a T-Rex and the T-Rex in last nights Dr Who episode was freakin huge! :eek:

They did handwave the T-Rex being too big though in the episode.

It's cool that ABC have started showing the episodes "live" in the morning and that they are going to keep doing it apparently. Great to wake up on Sunday and watch a new episode on the recorder right away.

[Gutsman Heavy]

Nice to see a Doctor who isn't tumblr bait again. Looking forward to the Disney channel companion buggering off, hope we get someone like Donna again.

[BigTransformerTrev]

Nice to see a Doctor who isn't tumblr bait again. Looking forward to the Disney channel companion buggering off, hope we get someone like Donna again.

Ugh! My wife and I couldn't stand Donna! Though I totally see your point about having a more challenging counterpart for the Doc. Personally bring back Companions like Leela or Peri Brown I say :D

[PROVOST]

(the way that he allowed Clara to believe that he was abandoning her was interesting).

"the Doctor always lies" :D

[Hursticon]

It's cool that ABC have started showing the episodes "live" in the morning and that they are going to keep doing it apparently. Great to wake up on Sunday and watch a new episode on the recorder right away.

Agreed! :cool:

It was great having something to wait up 'til (https://twitter.com/Hursticon/status/503234181615210496) but also the fact that from 6:30am onward, the Ep/s are available for streaming (100% Free) via ABC iView - ALL DAY (http://iview.abc.net.au/collection/146)! :eek::D

This was an alright episode, I feel new Doctors always need more than a single episode in order to really make the role theirs, and I think Capaldi is doing well (I liked that they played up his Scottish-ness, still not Ginger though :p) but I also approve of any Ep with Strax & Vastra - They're great characters. ;):)

[BigTransformerTrev]

but I also approve of any Ep with Strax & Vastra - They're great characters. ;):)

Freakin LOVE Strax! He's had some of the best funny one-liners in the last few seasons to my mind :D

[UltraMarginal]

I'm getting a little over Strax and Vastra myself, they're good characters but one of the best things about Dr Who is the constant changing of locations and side characters, these characters and their time period are popping up a little too regularly for my liking.

[Paulbot]

Hmm, they don't seem to pop up any more often than Rose's family, Martha's family, or Donna's family did in previous series. And how often has The Doctor visited 2000-2015 London in the New Who?

Clara doesn't have a well established supporting cast back home, so these guys kind of fill that role. And in this episode they fill the same kind of role as Rose's family did in The Christmas Invasion to help the companion deal with the Doctor's refegeneration.

[UltraMarginal]

Hmm, they don't seem to pop up any more often than Rose's family, Martha's family, or Donna's family did in previous series. And how often has The Doctor visited 2000-2015 London in the New Who?

Clara doesn't have a well established supporting cast back home, so these guys kind of fill that role. And in this episode they fill the same kind of role as Rose's family did in The Christmas Invasion to help the companion deal with the Doctor's refegeneration.

I guess that's fair enough, it just felt to me that they were there a lot in the last season.
And it feels a bit different when they return to someones home in modern times, it's their home base and the Companion wants to visit, to spend time and say hello. Clara does have a family in modern England doesn't she? I thought she did.

A few seasons ago I would have said that a Giant T-Rex in the Thames would have had the entire population out of joint for years but there have been a few occasions of that now, unlike a lot of the earlier Seasons (of the modern incarnation) where most events, even though large in scale were mostly covert or self contained and wouldn't have necessarily entered the general populaces consciousness.

there are a few examples now of that not being the case, the steam punk cybermen, the massive Dalek invasion, the Little Fat critters (that I can't think of the name of off the top of my head), even the episode Angels take manhatten went a bit overboard to a situation that's un-hideable.

I've always found the relative quiet of the doctors adventures to be one of the big selling points. Him, his Companion and a small group of others, are aware of a serious problem, dastardly deed that potentially nearly wipes out Humanity, or all of creation but save for that small group, most of the world goes about it's day to day existence none the wiser. A massive T-Rex coughing up a phone booth in central London has to be something that sticks in the public mind for a while.


wow, that tangented off in a different direction:o

well, that's my Dr Who rant for the month.

I'm looking forward to seeing where this doctor takes us. Hopefully the actors personality comes through a fair bit, my mate read an article where Capaldi said he'd enjoy going into comic shops and standing next to people reading Dr Who, after he knew he had the part and no-one knew his face, enjoying the irony that they were doctor who fans standing next to the Doctor and not even realising it.

[GoktimusPrime]

I've always found the relative quiet of the doctors adventures to be one of the big selling points. Him, his Companion and a small group of others, are aware of a serious problem, dastardly deed that potentially nearly wipes out Humanity, or all of creation but save for that small group, most of the world goes about it's day to day existence none the wiser. A massive T-Rex coughing up a phone booth in central London has to be something that sticks in the public mind for a while.
^Totally agree. But I think it's partly to do with available special effects technology. Old Who was more limited in what they could do w/ visual effects and thus had to write stories that were relatively less reliant. It meant making the Doctor more of a problem solving sleuth and, as you said, thwarting plots before they got out of hand. But to me, New Who feels more inclined to make the Doctor more of an action hero and allow these epic problems to spiral out, as it allows them to show off contemporary digital effects technology.

I also really miss having Doctor Who series which don't have some underlying plot thread spanning through it, as well as every companion having their fates being inexplicably intertwined with the Doctor. I'd like to see them go back to a series of stand alone stories and just 'regular' companions being people who tag along w/ the Doctor, and sure, end up saving the universe, but not necessarily pre-destined to be with the Doctor. The pre-destiny thing was cool the first ... two times at the most. But seeing it become a stock and standard trait makes it feel less special/unique.

"And when everyone's super... hehehe... noone will be."
- Syndrome (The Incredibles)


I'm looking forward to seeing where this doctor takes us. Hopefully the actors personality comes through a fair bit,
I'm hoping that the show will lean more towards the Old Who style in terms of making the Doctor more of a pre-emptive problem solver rather than a reactive action hero. In the meantime I guess it's good that the stunt doubles are getting a lot of work. ;)

[BigTransformerTrev]

Last nights episode was...ok. I have to say though, when the Doctor shared his mind with the Dalek I thought "Ok, I bet that it starts off all nice and then the Dalek discovers that the Doctor is all angry and warmongering deep down". And surprise surprise thats what happened. Same as the first of the new seasons several years ago "You would have made a good Dalek". One of the things I've liked about Dr Who is it hasn't been that predictable, but you could certainly see where last nights episode was going.

It seems one of the few new personality traits of the new Doctor is he is a bit more, I wanna say callous but it's more that he is realistic, about human life. He was able to save one life from the original ship getting blasted but not all, and he knew the guy was already dead once the Dalek antibodies scanned him. He didn't get all weepy and "NOOOOOO!" about it, just accepted the reality of the situation and moved on. I don't mind this on the whole, though it makes him a tad drier and less melodramatic character which has its pros and cons.

[griffin]

(it's repeated tonight and next Saturday if anyone wants to watch it before they read this post)

So they finally did it... and set a dangerous precedent to appease a vocal minority of fans. :(

The topic of Timelord Gender-swapping between regenerations, which has been thrown around since about the sixth Doctor (if I recall), has been done on another Timelord instead.
It doesn't answer the "demands" for a female Doctor, but does now make it canon that a future Doctor can be female... and increase the calls for one. (and knowing marketing strategies, it will happen if ratings fall, just to spice things up a bit)

I was one who was opposed to the idea, and hate that it gained enough traction to end up becoming part of the Dr Who lore... because I think gender shouldn't be something that should change, as it would theoretically be very problematic in a "real world" sense.
Like, how does it work if one is pregnant and then regenerates into a male... does the baby get lost because there is now no womb for it to grow from? Or how about the peer pressure from other kids if a child or teen regenerates into the opposite gender? Or if there was a married couple and one changes gender, what if the other isn't willing to go gay?
It makes for an interesting plot device (like how it hid the identity of the villain in today's episode), but the ramification or reality of a one-off plot device is being ignored... mostly because it is not something they might have to deal with for a long time if Gallifrey remains lost.

I was really hoping it was a different Timelord who knew him, like the Rani... but no. It makes the whole passionate kiss seem even weirder.

You know, I can't remember if there was a Cyberman in last week's trailer, but when the doors closed to reveal the Cyberman eyes, that was a very well done lead up to a hint at what was about to come.

I laughed at the wifi and Ipad bit...
"you have Ipads in the afterlife?"
"we have Steve Jobs."

[Paulbot]

The thing you're fine with is a made up science fiction plot device and the thing that would be very problematic in a "real world" sense is something that actually happens in the real world to real people and has those consequences. Except for the "if one is pregnant and then regenerates" bit because that involves the made up thing again and since regeneration tends to happen to the dying and involves all the cells of the body changing (right?) I'd doubt a baby would survive a dying Time Lady regenerating anyway.

I'm left wondering from this episode if there will be a connection to a certain other regenerating woman who 'died/was saved' in a certain library a few years ago.

[griffin]

Yeah, it's a bit difficult to argue semantics on a "fiction" story.

It just seems a bit melodramatic now for him to claim sympathy of being the last of his race (which he used just a couple episodes ago), when there are now a number of Timelords and "offspring" floating around now.

[SMHFConvoy]

Can, Moffat just leave now? The last couple of eps were actually decent and this episode just wanders everywhere and the big reveal...

[GoktimusPrime]

Spoilahs...














So did the Mistress kill the real Osgood, or was it her Zygon duplicate? ;)

[griffin]

I was actually a bit saddened by her death, thinking that it mustn't have been real, because she was like the on-screen representation of Dr Who nerds - knowing all about Dr Who, and wearing things to honour him. It was actually an unnecessary death, in terms of the plot, in that nothing afterwards required her death, and added to the darker direction the show has taken this year. (deaths of many innocents, who wouldn't normally die with previous doctors and seasons)

If it was the Zygon, I think it would have morphed back to fend off the Mistress. Besides, we're not sure if the Zygons stayed on earth, and if they did, I think for security purposes, UNIT would have forced them to take on new human disguises.

The more interesting question, which is always answered with "no", is... is the Master/Mistress finally dead. She was zapped by a Cyberman before the Doctor could zap her.

[GoktimusPrime]

I thought she was transported away. <shrugs> :confused: But let's face it, s/he's survived worse. :o

[griffin]

I thought she was transported away. <shrugs> :confused: But let's face it, s/he's survived worse. :o

I wasn't sure at first as well, since we didn't see the Cybermen shoot anything in that episode to know what it currently looks like.
It didn't look her other transportations to or from the Nethersphere, so I'm just going by what the episode guide on one of the wikis mentions.

Not that it matters though, as the Master has "died" several times already.

[snaketales]

The reveal of Missy puts an interesting spin on the Bill and Ted movies.... :D

[SMHFConvoy]

Moffat has *implied* that Missy will be back. Take that with a grain of salt.

[GoktimusPrime]

...I'm never gonna look at Santa Claus the same way again :eek:

[Hursticon]

...I'm never gonna look at Santa Claus the same way again :eek:

I loved the outright acknowledgement of the similarity between "Facehuggers". :D

[Ultra Mackness]

Has it been long enough to treat this thread as spoiler free yet? There are spoilers ahead anyway.








I liked the direct acknowledgement too Hursti! It was interesting that the dream crabs wound up providing motivation for both the Doctor and Clara to want to travel together again, but the cynic in me wonders whether there is a greater conspiracy at foot - some enemy of the Doctor who requires them both for the fulfilment of a greater scheme?

At least that the kind of plot line I'm hoping for in the next series. :)

[griffin]

For those wanting to watch a complete run of the 8 seasons of the new Dr Who TV show, or yet to see some episodes, they will be playing all the episodes weeknights from next Monday on ABC.... which is probably timed to end just before the 9th season starts later in the year.

[Paulbot]

They did this last year too, but on ABC2. I remember I kept catching bits of it and watching some of my fave eps.

[griffin]

I'd like to see a re-run of the original series again... it's been about 5 years since they went from start to finish.

[jazzcomp]

Haven't seen a lot of Dr. Who since the new Dr.

[UltraMarginal]

This is a great idea, maybe it's time I bought that hdd to connect to the TV for recording.

[5FDP]

Haven't seen a lot of Dr. Who since the new Dr.

I haven't watched any Dr. Who since Sylvester McCoy :o :p

[GoktimusPrime]

I haven't watched any Dr. Who since Sylvester McCoy :o :p
The 10th (David Tennant) Doctor is the best out of the new Doctors IMO. If you're thinking about watching any of the new Dr. Who stuff, I'd recommend that one. :)

[5FDP]

Thanks Goki :) Now all I need to do is find the time to watch them :p

[Burn]

The 10th (David Tennant) Doctor is the best out of the new Doctors IMO. If you're thinking about watching any of the new Dr. Who stuff, I'd recommend that one. :)
I'm still partial to Capaldi, he just needs to get rid of Clara.

That being said ... I caught both parts of The End of Time over the weekend and it reminded me of why I liked Tennant so much.

[GoktimusPrime]

Thanks Goki :) Now all I need to do is find the time to watch them :p
ABC iView allows you to watch the latest ep in your own time. :)

[5FDP]

ABC iView allows you to watch the latest ep in your own time. :)

Yeah, but you have to have time to make time ;)

[GoktimusPrime]

Here's a simple graphic I made to try and get my head around the Doctor's incarnations and their chronology. :o
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/doctorwho_everydoctor_zpsmjizcozr.jpg
A: First Doctor (William Hartnell)
B: Second Doctor (Patrick Troughton)
C: Third Doctor (Jon Pertwee)
D: Fourth Doctor (Tom Baker)
※: The Watcher (Adrian Gibbs)
E: Fifth Doctor (Peter Davison)
F: Sixth Doctor (Colin Baker)
G: Seventh Doctor (Sylvester McCoy)
H: Eighth Doctor (Paul McGann)
I: War Doctor (John Hurt)
J: Ninth Doctor (Christopher Eccleston)
K: Tenth Doctor, pre meta-crisis (David Tennant)
★: Meta Crisis Doctor (David Tennant)
L: Tenth Doctor, post meta-crisis (David Tennant)
☆: Valeyard (Michael Jayston)
M: Eleventh Doctor (Matt Smith)
*: Dream Lord (Toby Jones)
N: Twelfth Doctor (Peter Capaldi)

[BigTransformerTrev]

Was half watching the last episode of the latest season on ABC2 last night whilst my toddler ran around. Every time a Cyberman came on he'd say 'robot' and point at the screen. However when one took its face off to reveal a dead Danny Pinks face underneath that really freaked him out, he went very quiet in my lap and help my hand over his eyes so he couldn't see the TV.

Don't really blame him. There are some ep's where I remember that a freaky bit is coming up and switch it off before Orion can see it.

[griffin]

New Season starts tomorrow (http://www.abc.net.au/tv/programs/doctor-who/) (Sunday).
Unlike last season, they don't appear to have the episodes screening at 4/5am in the morning after it airs in England.... but is supposed to be on Iview instead if you can't wait until the 7.30pm screening on ABC.
And if you miss that, it will repeat twice during the week on ABC2, and be on Iview for a week or two.

[Ultra Mackness]

I couldn't wait till later so I watched it.

I'm trying to be careful to not give away anything, but there were some surprises for me and I really enjoyed it.

Can't wait for next episode and I haven't really felt that way since Tennant was at the helm :)

[BigTransformerTrev]

Yeah it's hard to discuss tonights ep without giving spoilers away.

In the first few seconds of the show I was thinking 'oh, here we are in some old war on earth yet again. Oh man - am I actually getting bored with Dr Who?!" Then it's suddenly lasers and freaky hand things and it just escalated from there.

Suffice it to say there was so much going on in this episode it felt like a season finale rather than a season opener :eek: Freakin good stuff!

[GoktimusPrime]

I think it's fair to assume that there may be spoilers about the new ep/season from here on. Spoilers ahead...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/avatars/meme_spoilers_riversong_zps3g8qve9u.gif

spoiler time
spoiler and
spoiler relative
spoiler dimensions
spoiler in
spoiler space

This:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/doctorwho_kaleds_diversity_zps0ygacymz.jpg
Non-Caucasian looking Kaleds! I personally think that it's good to try and introduce more ethnic diversity into the show, especially among alien humanoids. We've already seen attempts at introducing more diversity into other humanoid aliens, such as Time Lords. Besides, it don't matter if your black or white, cos in the end they all look like cycloptic squids (http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/tardis/images/0/07/DalekMutant3.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20090617165021)! :p

Coincidentally I was actually re-watching The Genesis of the Daleks just last week, so the memories of that episode are still fresh in my mind; revisiting the dilemma that the Fourth Doctor faced with detonating the incubation chamber and killing the Dalek race at the moment of the creation. But here's the thing, when the Doctor was sent to Skaro to intervene with the Dalek's creation, he was actually given several options:
* Avert their creation
* Alter their nature (i.e. make them less aggressive)
* Discover an inherent weakness
The Doctor initially tried to alter their nature, asking Davros not to strip the Daleks of their morality (as did some other sympathetic Kaleds, who attempted a coup that ultimately failed). He couldn't discover any inherent weakness, so the only option he had left was to commit genocide, but he only managed to trap the Daleks for a thousand years.

So here's the thing... the Twelfth Doctor has inadvertently travelled back to Skaro and discovered Davros as a boy. Rather than killing him, why doesn't he just rescue Davros and mentor the boy? Try to help Davros grow into a better man --- a man who doesn't believe that morality and compassion are weaknesses, and thus attempt to pass these "strengths" onto the Daleks. If the Doctor can guide Davros into becoming a compassionate man, then there's a fair chance that the Daleks would become compassionate beings. Save Clara, save the freakin' future! The Doctor would finally complete the mission that the Time Lords assigned to him back in The Genesis of the Daleks.

P.S.: It would be similar to what the Doctor tried to do with Kazran Sardick, although Sardick did still become the mean person that the Doctor was trying to change. But the Doctor could at least try to change Davros, and if that fails, then kill him. Spending decades becoming Davros' confidant would allow the Doctor to be trusted by him and get close, which would make it easier to assassinate him if changing Davros' nature would appear to be impossible.

[griffin]

I'm really starting to hate how no one dies in Doctor Who, unless they are a friend of the Doctor.

If they can't afford to lose two of his biggest villains, then don't kill them off... again and again and again.
And they don't even bother to try to explain it anymore. At least in the original series, they would explain a "return after death", even if it was sometimes a little far-fetched. But at least they tried and not just have dead people show up without a reason.

:mad:

[liegeprime]

P.S.: It would be similar to what the Doctor tried to do with Kazran Sardick, although Sardick did still become the mean person that the Doctor was trying to change. But the Doctor could at least try to change Davros, and if that fails, then kill him. Spending decades becoming Davros' confidant would allow the Doctor to be trusted by him and get close, which would make it easier to assassinate him if changing Davros' nature would appear to be impossible.

or just kill the boy rather than spend years wasting it on the boy influencing him to morality and compassion and wotnot only to find, it doesn't work.... he's already an evil person presently. So, presented with the chance, just off the fellow in one quick swoop. Easier, faster ;) mission accomplished.

Also I don't think trapping the Daleks can count as genocide... they didn't die, they're just misplaced somewhere.... he should've sent the entire race in the heart of a star, then that's genocide and that would've ended their menace. mission accomplished again, the Doctor for all his knowledge and power is indeed such a weak and flawed creature heheheh.

[BigTransformerTrev]

I'm really starting to hate how no one dies in Doctor Who, unless they are a friend of the Doctor.

If they can't afford to lose two of his biggest villains, then don't kill them off... again and again and again.
And they don't even bother to try to explain it anymore. At least in the original series, they would explain a "return after death", even if it was sometimes a little far-fetched. But at least they tried and not just have dead people show up without a reason.

:mad:

Errr.... I'm not sure we as TF nuts can really rag on the Dr Who show for that - most big TF villains have died and come back that many times the gateway to the afterlife might as well be a revolving door :p

[GoktimusPrime]

or just kill the boy rather than spend years wasting it on the boy influencing him to morality and compassion and wotnot only to find, it doesn't work.... he's already an evil person presently. So, presented with the chance, just off the fellow in one quick swoop. Easier, faster ;) mission accomplished.
Yes, but that's not how the Doctor thinks. The Doctor is a similar character to Optimus Prime -- they are altruists, and the ends can never justify the means. They are both incredible optimists, and as Davros correctly pointed out, compassion is the Doctor's greatest indulgence. The Doctor had the chance to kill off the Daleks at the moment of their creation, but he really did not want to do this. One of the most powerful moments in The Genesis of the Daleks was seeing the Fourth Doctor holding the two wires in his hand and having a moral conflict over whether or not he should detonate the Dalek incubation chamber, killing off a yet-innocent race before their birth. When his Kaled allies came and told the Doctor that Davros had agreed to negotiate, the Doctor gladly dropped the wires and ran off. The Doctor only went back to detonate the explosives when the negotiations failed.

Also I don't think trapping the Daleks can count as genocide... they didn't die, they're just misplaced somewhere.... he should've sent the entire race in the heart of a star, then that's genocide and that would've ended their menace. mission accomplished again,
The Doctor didn't have his Tardis with him. The Time Lords sent him and his companions to Skaro to avert or alter the genesis of the Daleks. He was given a Time Ring (http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Time_Ring) as his only means of escaping Skaro after completing his mission.

the Doctor for all his knowledge and power is indeed such a weak and flawed creature heheheh.
This is a similar trait that he shares with Optimus Prime. As Optimus Prime's G1 TFU profile states, he would be a more efficient military commander if he weren't so compassionate, but then he simply wouldn't be Optimus Prime. Look at what Michael Bay did to Optimus Prime in the live action TF sequels (esp. ROTF and AOE). Optimus Prime became far more ruthless and a lot of fans (and even Peter Cullen) responded unfavourably. It's what separates heroes from villains.

Padmé Amidala: "To be angry is to be human."
Anakin Skywalker: "I'm a Jedi. I know I'm better than this."
(Star Wars II: Attack of the Clones)

But this is what makes these characters heroic. Without the compassion, then what would stop them from being villains? The Doctor became morally lost after the Time War when he regenerated into the Ninth Doctor, but it was Rose Tyler who helped him find his way and regain his sense of compassion.

And it was in this moment that a Dalek made the Doctor step back and take a good hard look at what he had allowed himself to become...
Ninth Doctor: "The Daleks have failed! Why don't you finish the job, and make the Daleks extinct? Rid the universe of your filth! Why don't you just die?"
Dalek: "You would make a good Dalek."
(Doctor Who: Dalek)

The Doctor isn't a soldier. He gave himself the name of the Doctor because he wanted to help people. And when he did become a combatant as the War Doctor, that version of himself renounced the identity of being the Doctor and became loathed and emotionally buried by the Ninth, Tenth and Eleventh Doctors until his redemption in The Day of the Doctor. The Doctor normally prides himself on being a non-aggressive person. He was disappointed when Wilfred Mott offered him his gun, and even struggled to shoot either the Master or Rassilon, even to save all of creation.

Rose Tyler: "Doctor, they've got guns!"
Tenth Doctor: "And I haven't. Which makes me the better person, don't you think? They can shoot me dead, but the moral high-ground is mine."
(Doctor Who: Army of Ghosts)

So it's not a question of whether or not it's a 'logical' decision, but whether or not it's in-character for the Doctor. :o

[griffin]

Errr.... I'm not sure we as TF nuts can really rag on the Dr Who show for that - most big TF villains have died and come back that many times the gateway to the afterlife might as well be a revolving door :p

Referring to Movie Megatron and pretty much every Optimus... doesn't it suck when it is made to look like they are gone for emotional effect, and then just brought back because of who they are?

But it's not the dying that bothers me so much, it's the resurrections without justification or plausibility.
In Transformers, yes there are returns, but robotic life can be given a less organic and more infinite existence... after all, they can be built and come to life, and have been alive for millions of years. Plus, the concept of the Matrix and Allspark were created by writers just for that very plot element of resurrections - the "mystical unknown ancient artefact" that creates life but no science can explain it.

In Doctor Who, how many times has the Master actually died (beyond the ability to regenerate), or Davros, and then just magically popped up again.
Last nights episode, it was even scripted for one to say light-heartedly, "yes I died but I'm back again", as if it really is just a big joke now.
It's the double-standards the show now has with who dies and who can never die but we'll still make it look like they die.
And ever since Steven Moffat took over from Russell T Davies, he's been messing up a number of things that were previously reliable/consistent elements, like the number of Doctors (having Peter Capaldi be the 13th doctor in the Anniversary episode, but in the very next episode he is first of his next 12 regenerations which would have been written before the Anniversary episode was filmed), and the whole Gender element of Timelords (it was a fixed element before Moffat took over, just look at the Doctor always being male after 12-ish regenerations - if it wasn't fixed he should have statistically been female for half of his regenerations, or at least half of the ones he was unconscious while regenerating so that there wasn't a claim of him choosing to stay male - and if it was normal for them to change genders all the time, then why would he choose to stay male).
Can... of... worms. Arrrgh... :p
Moffat should have kept the status quo on those foundation elements, and not generated inconsistencies for the amusement of one story or plot device, that will bite him in the ass later. (like Romana changing appearances like outfits before settling on her second form - yes, amusing, but now that and the Morbius episode were now forever points of contention in the argument of how many regenerations can Timelords really have)

I've actually watched (or read the book to) every Doctor Who episode ever made, so I'm a little invested in it, and am entitled to have a little selfish rant... :o :p

[BigTransformerTrev]

Referring to Movie Megatron and pretty much every Optimus... doesn't it suck when it is made to look like they are gone for emotional effect, and then just brought back because of who they are?

But it's not the dying that bothers me so much, it's the resurrections without justification or plausibility.
In Transformers, yes there are returns, but robotic life can be given a less organic and more infinite existence... after all, they can be built and come to life, and have been alive for millions of years. Plus, the concept of the Matrix and Allspark were created by writers just for that very plot element of resurrections - the "mystical unknown ancient artefact" that creates life but no science can explain it.

In Doctor Who, how many times has the Master actually died (beyond the ability to regenerate), or Davros, and then just magically popped up again.
Last nights episode, it was even scripted for one to say light-heartedly, "yes I died but I'm back again", as if it really is just a big joke now.
It's the double-standards the show now has with who dies and who can never die but we'll still make it look like they die.
And ever since Steven Moffat took over from Russell T Davies, he's been messing up a number of things that were previously reliable/consistent elements, like the number of Doctors (having Peter Capaldi be the 13th doctor in the Anniversary episode, but in the very next episode he is first of his next 12 regenerations which would have been written before the Anniversary episode was filmed), and the whole Gender element of Timelords (it was a fixed element before Moffat took over, just look at the Doctor always being male after 12-ish regenerations - if it wasn't fixed he should have statistically been female for half of his regenerations, or at least half of the ones he was unconscious while regenerating so that there wasn't a claim of him choosing to stay male - and if it was normal for them to change genders all the time, then why would he choose to stay male).
Can... of... worms. Arrrgh... :p
Moffat should have kept the status quo on those foundation elements, and not generated inconsistencies for the amusement of one story or plot device, that will bite him in the ass later. (like Romana changing appearances like outfits before settling on her second form - yes, amusing, but now that and the Morbius episode were now forever points of contention in the argument of how many regenerations can Timelords really have)

I've actually watched (or read the book to) every Doctor Who episode ever made, so I'm a little invested in it, and am entitled to have a little selfish rant... :o :p

I like Starscreams line in the G2 comic 'All 'death' does is make us a littler meaner and a little crankier'.

In Dr Who's case it just keeps making him wackier and thinner to the point he is in the Middle Ages, riding a tank while playing an electric guitar :p

[Paulbot]

In regards to the "foundation elements", the "previously reliable/consistent elements, like the number of Doctors " how "foundation" are they really? How often did it actually come up in Classic Who vs just not being contradicted. Wasn't it something that didn't turn up for years into the series when some writer made it up. And now another writer made something else up.

There's a fundamental problem that any long running franchise seems to run into - the fans that don't want change, that want things to always stay the way they were. They want their hero to keep fighting the same villains - as was touched on before. Most shows (or comics too) would be better off with a fixed end point. Dragging them out just leads to these problems where stories can't reach end points and instead the characters have to keep acting out the same stories over and over. And in that environment you can't say "this is a set thing" because for the sake of keeping the show rolling nothing can be "set".

It'd be great to see a series of Doctor Who that didn't feature at all, in any way, a previously established alien race or character except the Doctor. No Daleks, Cybermen, UNIT, Master, Angels, Sontarans, Ice Warriors, Autons, etc etc. But how likely is that?

Transformers is just as bad as this. Even though they keep introducing new continuities, the same things (characters, events) keep getting retread over and over. Oh the new cartoon has Optimus Prime fighting Megatron? Yawn. The MTMTE series is doing something really interesting with Megatron, but if sales drop it could all be thrown out and we'll have "All Hail Megatron 2" staring the 80s cartoon Megatron again.


Anyway

This episode.

I enjoyed the episode watching it for the most part, but it left a sour taste in my mouth because the rules aren't clear anymore and I feel that a show like this should have pretty clear rules on time travel. A couple of characters died - but in a way that's screaming out for a time gets rewritten reset button, but if so, then what exactly are the time travel rules anymore? If you can pop back in time and undo deaths how/why should any character ever die ever again?

Surely wiping out the creator of the Daleks and removing them from history would be the biggest bomb to all of time and space. Something that would pretty much undo every single episode of New Who if not everything but Unearthly Child? If the Doctor can even try it now, how come no Time Lord tried this during the Time War? Surely they would have tried if they could? I guess all that Time War stuff no longer applies.

And if the Doctor has a will that goes to the Master when he's about to die, um, what about how they spent far too long with the 11th Doctor "going to die" at Trenzalore and it never came up, once?

Anyway, I'll wait to see part two and see what happens, but I want to see new stuff not, oh the Doctor's run off because he doesn't want to die, again.

[SMHFConvoy]

I don't understand why the season opener has to be in 2 parts? There wasn't enough good or solid story to warrant a 2nd part so much filler. So much useless filler.

[GoktimusPrime]

There's a fundamental problem that any long running franchise seems to run into - the fans that don't want change, that want things to always stay the way they were. They want their hero to keep fighting the same villains - as was touched on before. Most shows (or comics too) would be better off with a fixed end point. Dragging them out just leads to these problems where stories can't reach end points and instead the characters have to keep acting out the same stories over and over. And in that environment you can't say "this is a set thing" because for the sake of keeping the show rolling nothing can be "set".

It'd be great to see a series of Doctor Who that didn't feature at all, in any way, a previously established alien race or character except the Doctor. No Daleks, Cybermen, UNIT, Master, Angels, Sontarans, Ice Warriors, Autons, etc etc. But how likely is that?

Transformers is just as bad as this. Even though they keep introducing new continuities, the same things (characters, events) keep getting retread over and over. Oh the new cartoon has Optimus Prime fighting Megatron? Yawn. The MTMTE series is doing something really interesting with Megatron, but if sales drop it could all be thrown out and we'll have "All Hail Megatron 2" staring the 80s cartoon Megatron again.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/Transformers/meme_fry_zps0fa84621.jpg ;)

You may also enjoy this video: Realistic Superhero Funeral (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHm2XrwpGtI) :cool:

But at least most other stories usually try to present some reason for why a character's returned, no matter how cheesy. The Mistress' return without rhyme nor reason just feels lazy. You might as well do something like this...
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y227/goktimusprime/meme_doctorwhomissyback_zpsxmwqhcxn.jpg