I'd buy a multi-coloured eHobby set on sight.
As for more encores, come on Trypticon...
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I'd buy a multi-coloured eHobby set on sight.
As for more encores, come on Trypticon...
Firstly, I couldn't be happier. But I can't fathom why they wouldn't have done this to coincide with ROTF though. The timing seems bizarre. Possible complications?
Based on the fact it had yet to appear since then, I had basically given up hope, and had just added a saved search to my eBay account because I desperately want a G1 Devastator, so yet again, I'm utterly thrilled by this news. This is also compounded by the same realization as others: Encore is continuing!
I'm hoping the quality is better than that of Encore Bruticus, but I don't think this mold has been used as much as that one has.
Lastly, yet again, this is further proof against the fallacy that TakTom does not make molds that have been KO'd. Hopefully, the trend will continue.
Maybe they didn't want to cross-compete with the ROTF Constructicons. That's the reason Hasbro's supplied as to why they never went ahead with making the Animated Constructicons.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
No, it hasn't. So barring aging issues, it ought to be in fairly good nick.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
Or more likely they've just changed their minds (as people are entitled to do ;)). This venture may or may not work for them ya know... Takara's fear with reissuing Devastator was that they wouldn't generate enough sales because too many people are buying KOs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
But if they're willing to give fans the benefit of the doubt now and risk reissuing a heavily KOed toy like Devastator, then I hope collectors are willing to show them support and make it worth their while. :) I would hate to hear reports of Encore Devastator shelf-warming. :( Well, they'll definitely have my support. :)
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
Here's hoping Encore Devastator will sell like hot cakes and prompt TOMY to give us more Encores! :D
This is fantastic news, I am getting this encore! I hope the quality is good.
There is a listing on RK however you can't order it yet (no 'add to cart' button or price listed).
Masabon from TFW2005 was at the Tokyo Toy Show today and seemingly confirms the mold had to be repaired for reissue, explaining the delay after ROTF.
http://i1127.photobucket.com/albums/...0/CIMG3696.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Masabon
BBTS has them on preorder already.
http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/p...02&mode=retail
unfortunately i have soooo many constructicons atm, theres no need to buy another.
however, im very glad that the encore line is continuing!
This is great news as i dont have one yet, i will definately be ordering this. And if UltraMagnus's info is correct, then it will look like my wallet will copping a flogging, bring on fort max and Dinobots and bring on more encore :D
The dinobot moulds are most probably lost, so I wouldn't bank on them being reissued. Fort max might still be possible because the mould was of course used for brave max. Problem is that encore omega supreme & metroplex reportedly shelf warmed, which would discourage tomy from reissuing other big & expensive city formers like trypticon... Let alone the biggest and ultra expensive toy like fort max. All we can do is vote with our wallets & continue to support encore if we wanna see moreQuote:
Originally Posted by orionpax1
I will buy this to support the encore line and encourage Tak-Tom to re-create/repair more lost/broken molds.
If the Dinobots rumors are true, especially with Swoop (who is a huge one for KOs) then I will be very very poor.
You seem to be our resident expert on all things Japanese Goktimus :). ,so perhaps you can answer a mystery for me about the molds. New transformers are created and sculpted all the time, no? Eg classics henkei Grims. So why isn't it just a case of creating a new mold for a toy that is a close replica to the original? Some of these knock offs don't quite get the mold right, so they must be rebuilt and not using the original molds. Is it that encore just doesn't have the same volume as say a Hasbro toy at retail, or that hasbro just isn't intested in Encoree?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Yep. And it takes a considerable amount of time and money to develop new moulds.Quote:
Originally Posted by reillyd
It always costs more to produce something legitimately. Counterfeiting is easier and cheaper. Look at the costs of legit DVDs and Blu Rays versus the cost of buying pirated DVDs and Blu Ray discs -- you can get some pirated DVDs at a third of the price of the legit, and some of them are decent quality too.Quote:
Originally Posted by reillyd
And there's a lot more to producing a legit toy than meets the eye - costs that counterfeiters don't have to pay. e.g. legal costs (e.g. registration, patents etc.), marketing, design etc etc. And remember that TOMY is a company that employs professional engineers, maintains customer call centres, market researchers, illustrators, designers, cleaners, secretaries, human resource officers, liaison officers, web designers and all the other people who are on their payroll. And these people would be paid in Japanese Yen, probably on higher wages than bootleggers in China being paid in Chinese Yuan - and they would also have various other employer costs such as superannuation, sick leave, annual leave etc. Then there's the costs of maintaining their actual offices (there's one in Tokyo and one in Osaka) and all kinds of other additional costs like liaising with Hasbro in the U.S. (which would include international business class travel, accommodation, transport, interpreters etc.) -- while a lot of these costs may be tax deductible, it's still a cost that they have to bear. Then there's the costs of attending toy shows where they showcase their products to retailers.
Furthermore, TakaraTOMY have higher standards than bootleggers. They also have a strict budget to adhere to -- I don't buy KOs, but I've heard that a lot of them can be pretty expensive, whereas TakaraTOMY tries to keep their reissues relatively affordable.
Look at the reissue of the original G1 Optimus Prime toy (first reissued by Takara in 2000) - the G1 mould was too deteriorated or far gone to use, so they took the G2 mould. But the problem was that the arms were too deteriorated to use, so Takara had to rebuild new arms for Convoy from scratch. Takara have said that this was a _very_ expensive venture for them - and we've seen HasTak milk that mould for all it's worth with many, many times that they've kept reissuing that toy over and over again! But with Optimus Prime it seems to have been worth it as the single most iconic toy in Transformers. And that's just with a mostly in-tact G2 mould that just needed new arms! If the Dinobot moulds are even more deteriorated than that, or are completely gone - then I highly doubt that it would be viable for TOMY to reissue those figures.
This is also true. G1 reissues are part of what Hasbro classifies as "high end collectables" - i.e. toys targeted at the adult collectors market, which is a niche market. As a result, toys like reissues, Binaltech, Masterpiece etc. are produced in much more limited numbers compared to their "mainstream" Transformer toys aimed at children.Quote:
Originally Posted by reillyd
This is also why when a Japanese reissue is shelfwarming, it's more serious than seeing a regular mainstream TF toy shelfwarming.
I am not sure if I would buy all the Encore Dinobots if released. I already have all the originals complete. I would still like to support 'lost mold' reissues so I would at least try to buy a couple.
Reportedly and facts are two different things. From HK perspective, Omega and Metroplex were good sales. Metroplex (if you remember) was reissued again because they didnt meet the demand. The shelf warmers are Ironhide/Ratchet/Skids as well as Op Prime.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
I remember when the TFC was starting people were screaming for Soundwave and people were saying "the mould this, the mould that". Honestly with todays technology, putting a new mould together is simple and relatively inexpensive for Takara/Hasbro (who 100% guarantee have mould machines).
It all comes down to supply and demand. If they know the Dinobots will sell even if they have to retool the mould, they will do it.
Japanese business, now more than ever, need to get their bottom line up.
I am another one who would purchase all the Dinobots. I wouldn't expect them to be made though. Mind you I didn't expect Devastator either! Pretty excited about it but the Dinobots would be on a whole new level!
Remember when Takara used to include self-addressed survey cards with all their toys? And each card always allowed to name any 3 Transformers that you'd like to see them do? Well each time I got a reissue I always would put down the name of one of the Dinobots - so by time I got my 5th reissue I'd already requested them all. After that I'd keep cycling through their names again. Takara actually did pull through on most of the other requests I've made (and I'm sure many other fans too), e.g. Inferno, Hound, Skids etc etc. -- so this indicated to me that they were listening to people. But of course, this was all before the merger with TOMY, because unlike Takara, TOMY's online survey no longer gives you the option of making open suggestions like that, which is a shame IMO. :(
But anyway, if retooling moulds is as cheap and easy as you say it is (which is contrary to what Takara told us back in 2000 - unless there have been considerable improvements in technology since then, I wouldn't know) - then other than sitting around and complaining, all we can do is show our support for Encore and hopefully prove to TOMY that it is worth their while to ressurect more moulds and reissue more stuff through Encore.
Because there's only a small handful of Takara owned moulds from the first two years of G1 that Takara/TOMY haven't reissued yet. So upon examination we have...
1984
+ Bluestreak: reissued
+ Brawn: reissued
+ Bumblebee: reissued
+ Bumblejumper: not reissued (possibly insufficient demand for such an obscure figure)
+ Buzzsaw: reissued
+ Cliffjumper: reissued
+ Frenzy: reissued
+ Gears: (re)issued
+ Hound: reissued
+ Huffer: reissued
+ Ironhide: reissued
+ Jazz: reissued
+ Laserbeak: reissued
+ Megatron: reissued
+ Mirage: not reissued - mould known to be lost
+ Optimus Prime: reissued like a mofo
+ Prowl: reissued
+ Ratchet: reissued
+ Ravage: reissued
+ Rumble: reissued
+ Sideswipe: reissued
+ Skywarp: reissued
+ Soundwave: reissued
+ Starscream: reissued
+ Sunstreaker: not reissued - mould rumoured to be lost
+ Thundercracker: reissued
+ Trailbreaker: reissued
+ Wheeljack: not reissued - mould known to be broken
+ Windcharger: reissued
1985
+ Astrotrain: reissued
+ Barrage: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Beachcomber: reissued
+ Blaster: reissued
+ Blitzwing: reissued
+ Bombshell: reissued
+ Bonecrusher: not reissued - reissue pending
+ Camshaft: not reissued
+ Chop Shop: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Cosmos: reissued
+ Dirge: reissued
+ Downshift:not reissued
+ Grapple: reissued
+ Grimlock: not reissued - mould known to be lost
+ Hoist: reissued
+ Hook: not reissued - reissue pending
+ Inferno: reissued
+ Jetfire: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Kickback: reissued
+ Long Haul: not reissued - reissue pending
+ Omega Supreme: reissued
+ Overdrive: not reissued
+ Perceptor
+ Powerdasher (drill): not reissued
+ Powerdasher (F1): not reissued
+ Powerdasher (jet): not reissued
+ Powerglide: reissued
+ Ramjet: reissued
+ Ransack: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Red Alert: reissued
+ Roadbuster: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Scavenger: not reissued - reissue pending
+ Scrapper: not reissued - reissue pending
+ Seaspray: not reissued
+ Shockwave: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Shrapnel: reissued
+ Skids: reissued
+ Slag: not reissued - mould known to be lost
+ Sludge: not reissued - mould known to be lost
+ Smokescreen: reissued
+ Snarl: not reissued - mould known to be lost
+ Swoop: not reissued - mould known to be lost
+ Thrust: reissued
+ Topspin: not reissued
+ Tracks: reissued
+ Twin Twist: not reissued
+ Venom: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
+ Warpath: reissued
+ Whirl: not reissued - mould not owned by Takara
...so as we can see, Takara have reissued quite a lot of G1 figures from the first two years of Transformers. Many of the Transformers that they haven't reissued have been either because the mould is no longer available, or because they never owned the mould to begin with. It was only possible for them to reissue Omega Supreme and Sky Lynx after the merger with TOMY because TOMY owns those moulds.
Anyway, having said all that, if they did reissue the Dinobots, I'd definitely get them for the same reason that I wanna get the Constructicons -- even though I have my original G1s from my childhood, it'd be nice to have a minty new set, and also so I can have another set so I can display them in robot and dino modes :) So while I'm skeptical that they'd reissue the Dinobots, if they did I'd be all over them like Cosmic Rust germs! :D
P.S.: they really should re-reissue Ramjet and Thrust again... because the first reissues were very limited convention exclusives. They deserve to be reissued in as retail toys IMO.
kristofferer's posted links to pics he took at the Tokyo Toy Fair, including a nice pic of Encore Devastator here :)
Ratchet, ironhide, Omega Supreme and to a lesser extent Sky Lynx all shelf warmed quite a bit.
I was in Japan a good 6 or so months after Omega Supreme was released and I was able to find plenty sitting on store shelves. Same story with Sky lynx as well if I remember correctly.
Metroplex did indeed have a second run as mentioned above.
But, just last month in Japan i saw 2 Omega Supremes and for only 2800Y if memory serves!
Whatever it was, it was damn cheap; only the cursed overflowing suitcases prevented a purchase :(
Wow sooooo much has happened in technology in 11 years :)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
I will tell you how simple it is. If you have the original figure, you bring it to a moulder (there are heaps in Hong Kong). They will usually charge between 5-10k AUD for a full mould for average toy. They will usually use this 3D scanning machine before moulding to create all the pieces. For ones that a slightly off, they will use the computer to recreate the mould. When its exactly as they need it. Give it a few hours, mould is made.
The price of the mould then depends on how many you want to make. A mould will usually make 10k pieces. If you are selling mass retail and will continue to use the mould then i suspect it will be more. The Devastator mould would cost Takara between 60-70k AUD but I am sure they will continue to use it for the next 10 years :)
Hence why all the henkeis are being reissued easily.
It's a piece of cake in all honesty.
In 2000, no google, facebook, smartphones, broadband home access, tablets... you get the drift! :)
Skullcruncher say powerdashers need reissue! Me want powerdashers with shiny new chrome!
Hursticon concurs, along with Reflector! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Skullcruncher
To be honest, I never swallowed the 'Too hard and expensive!' excuse. For many years, KOers have been able to very easily and accurately reproduce molds with very little financial penalty or they would not be able to sell KOs as cheaply as they normally do. If reproducing a toy for a KOer was 1/5 as expensive as it is claimed to be, then we wouldn't have so many of them out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraMagnus
I think it was more about a willingness to do so rather than a financial hit.
Probably because KOers had 1/5 of the quality control employees :pQuote:
Originally Posted by kup
Thanks for the length of your response Goktimus, that answers a lot.
Secondly, when you list all of the toys reissued (mental note to self, must track these down) that is actually fairly good coverage, and better than I thought. I didn't know some if those other jets even had been reissued, like thrust. I hope you are right and they see the demand for another thrust release :)
Recently Has-Tak's QC has been questionable, particularly on the Hasbro side of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AZRAEL1
'Quality' is no longer something that only a 'legit' or large corporate company guarantees, nowadays its often the opposite.
Yea I know, it was just my (bad) attempt at a joke :pQuote:
Originally Posted by kup
QC has become a bit of an issue in that last few years for anything TF related really. I remember that Encore Bruticus had a few problems himself, just hoping that Devs doesn't suffer from problems.
cool!! if the price is right i'll probably get one
even if the price isnt right i'll still praobably get one :D
Wait, I don't recall having ever seeing a Thrust or Ramjet reissue. Are there e-hobby reissues of them?Quote:
Originally Posted by reillyd
Yep, back in 2002 (or 2003)Quote:
Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87
Yes, released around 2002 and they were the limited to 1000 pieces kind. I have Ramjet, Thunder and Warp. I am Desperately looking for a Thrust but having no luck finding one for under $300.Quote:
Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87
The only reissue mould that I can think of that HasTak have repeatedly reissued for approx. 10 years was the original Optimus Prime. I mean, if demand for Devastator was so big enough - like big enough to rival the popularity of Optimus Prime - then that might justify a decade's worth of Devvie reissues and thus the initial expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraMagnus
Yeah but Classicsverse moulds are new and I suspect fairly in-tact. The only Classicsverse mould I can think of that started deteriorating was the Starscream mould (ya know, all those Seekers), as evidenced by Gentei Thundercracker and Skywarp. I don't have Generations Thundercracker, but I haven't read/heard any complaints about that mould suffering from the mould degradation issues that his Gentei counterpart had. But I reckon repairing a recently degrading mould might be easier than trying to restore or rebuild a 26-27 year old deteriorated mould - or building one entirely from scratch if the mould is too far gone or has been lost.Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraMagnus
But we did have a forum and the #transformers IRC channel on austnet! :D :)Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraMagnus
...well, let's just say that you're right... it seems that they've at least changed their mind about Devastator. Hopefully if this toy sells well enough, they might change their mind about other figures that they've yet to reissue too. At the end of the day, we can all communicate to TakaraTOMY with the universal language -- money! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Not e-Hobby, they're part of the "Collectors Edition" reissues, which are convention exclusives. And yeah, something like only 1000 of each were ever made, making them freakishly rare. :eek: But in any case, we know that TakaraTOMY probably still have these moulds -- they really ought to reissue them as Encores.Quote:
Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87
But I have no idea how well Encore Skywarp/Thundercracker sold (I bought a set even though I have G1 Skywarp and Thundercracker - so I've done my bit in showing support for more Seeker reissues) -- but if they sold well enough then I hope that might persuade TakaraTOMY to consider reissuing Ramjet and Thrust as Encores. All depends on how well they sold I suppose. Anyway, if you wanna see what reissue Ramjet and Thrust look like, click on the links below:
Reissue Ramjet
Reissue Thrust
I LOVE those collectors edition boxes. They look awesome.
RK has it for pre-order now. About 80 or so available. Mine was $125 shipped :D
I don't like their bland and generic nature. :( I much prefer reissues with G1 repro boxes -- even the book boxes of TFC and Commemorative Edition are have more individual effort put into them. But of course, Takara uses these generic boxes for some of their limited exclusives where it's not worth the expense of making more individualised packaging. So I get why they do it... but I can't say I'm a fan of it. I tried selling some of my eHobby boxes before, and only sold one (Deepcover's box to gamblor916 ;))... other than that, I had no takers! :p
And of course, having these generic boxes keeps the cost of the reissues down. One thing I like about collecting Japanese exclusives is that they're actually reasonably cheap! (I'm talking about their RRP, not their inflated aftermarket prices which I don't go for) For example, Collectors Edition Ramjet and Thrust sold for just 6000JPY, which is the same RRP that Encore Skywarp and Thundercracker sold for. But of course, the Collectors Edition figures are hideously rare! But just awesome for those who could get them at the time -- like a friend of mine whose friend went to the convention where Collectors Ed Red Alert and Sideswipe were sold and he picked up a set for him. My mate was SO excited! And I was happy too cos I got to review them. :)
I'm so excited about this reissue. I've wanted Scrapper for the past 25 years, as a 5 year old my neighbour owned him and I used to play with Scrapper in the sandpit in the backyard. Now I get to have the entire Constructicons brand new! Yesss:)
I only ever had the yellow, non-combining Constructicons, this is a big deal for me!
I know exactly how you feel. Seeing other members here get burnt by accidentally buying KO's, I have stayed away from buying any of the Constructicons aside from Scrapper which I bought MOSC. November can't come soon enough :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Jay-Tron
OMG My jaw just fell off.....
I have a real one and like 5 sets of fakes.....
Must have new ones