That is depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
That is depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
If you know a little about economics the prices we pay are not that bad (and you don't need to be a numbers guy to understand it).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mythirax
There are a few problems we have that stop things being as cheap here as they are in America.
Yes you can buy a figure and have it sent to you from America for less than picking it up locally, but that doesn't mean the local price isn't fair when you consider the economic factors.
What I said was based purely on the good ol' Vegemite. I can eat it by the spoon, I love my Vegemite :DQuote:
Originally Posted by DELTAprime
Actually it is unfair pricing... because it isn't local factors making the toys so expensive here (like other items that are more expensive here).Quote:
Originally Posted by DELTAprime
The toys come into the country and sold to retailers at twice the price BEFORE local factors come into play (retailers, labour, taxes), so that Hasbro America gets their commission, which is more than they make per unit on items sold in America.
I question your figures.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
A huge factor is the Minimum Wage here. We get paid around 2.5x what they get paid in the US. Hasbro has to pay it's employees a substantial amount more to work here in Australia not to mention the retailers huge wages. We don't have the economy of scale that America does either. Not to mention increased transport cost (those truckers don't work for free).
Over all thanks to our wage vs the cost of an item we have a much higher standard of living than America.
Also while I have no issue with people buying lines like MP and Generations from overseas (which is what I do) since they don't get released here at all. But if your going to buy a toy that has been released here don't get it from America or HK, buy it locally and keep an Australian in a job.
Since this topic rears its head from time to time, about the myth of toys (and other products) needing to cost more here, this was the proof I posted before that Importers like Hasbro, Lego and Mattel can not justify selling their products to Retailers at twice what they sell to US retailers (because all the factors are the same for both countries before the Wholesale price - which is double here)...
As you can see Minimum wage is not a fair comparison tool if the average American earns more than the average Australian.Quote:
Comparing Minimum wages isn't indicative of the two general socio-economic standards of the two countries... especially when many of the minimum wage jobs over there don't take into account tips/gratuities that many employers take into account when paying their employees.
A better comparison would be the average wage of both countries (or the Median - which is total earnings divided by the population, so that it takes into account low income, average income, and high income earners... because "luxury" items like collector figures aren't going to be bought by many/any of the lowest income earners, making it moot comparing minimum wages of both countries).
In about 2007/2008 the Median in America was about US$54,000.
At the same time, the Median in Australia was about US$44,000.
(this figure apparently takes into account exchange rate fluctuation... because our average in AU$ was about $66,000, which is still only a little more than the figure in America... if our dollars had actually been of equal value)
And that's only as high as it is, due to the number of people in Australia earning massive money from the Mining Boom... throwing out the average in the last 15 years.
(while the American average has been pretty flat for the last 7 years)
If that Boom hadn't happened, we'd still be significantly lower than the Average American wage (which is more indicative to the average standard of living), and it's mostly the average consumer who buys toys... because it isn't a necessity like food, clothing or accommodation that the minimum wage-earner is often only able to afford.
Still... ignoring the statistics above that disprove the suggestion that we should have higher prices, due to the myth of us having 2.5 times the living standard than America, it doesn't justify the "Australia Tax" that companies like Hasbro apply to foreign items - that doubles the price of items for us (consumers), when it doesn't cost them double to import them... particularly during a time when the exchange rate was at, or near, parity in recent years
And, transport... that's not a factor until after Hasbro (and others) set their Wholesale price, which is more than double for things like Deluxes, but is close to exact with the high-end items.
That's why our more expensive items (like Metroplex, Masterpieces and Platinums) are often 80-150% of US Retail prices... but the smaller items like Deluxes are 250% above US Retail.
If the factors of Wages and Transport and standard of living were indeed a factor, all the size classes would be the same percentage increase over the American prices... but if you look at our Checklist or sightings section, you'd see that the margin goes from 80-250% of what Americans pay.
That's manipulation by the importers, and that's why Toys and electronics and software haven't gone down as much as all the other cheap Chinese-made stuff at Department stores when our Dollar went above 1 US dollar.
Take a wander around Kmart or BigW at all the dirt cheap Chinese clothes and kitchenware, and garden products, food, and even Generic brand toys... that's because the Importers CAN sell stuff cheap here if they want to, but in the case of the Foreign Owned Toy companies like Hasbro, Mattel and Lego (along with the software and computer companies), they keep the prices up because it's a monopoly that they want to exploit. Most toys are impulse buys by parents and kids at the stores... we might know how cheap they should be, but most don't, so they don't question it, or shop online like we do.
The minimum wage is fair, medium is not you are comparing what a person can actually earn to a statistic.
Also the cost of a Deluxe here in Australia when I started collecting in 2007 was $27.99, it's now $25. The cost in America over the same time has risen from $10 to $13 despite the fact we have higher inflation in Australia. Thats right the price has dropped hear and risen in America, how is that unfair?
Scientific statistics are the only way we can get objective comparisons, without being misguided by personal experience or opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by DELTAprime
Minimum wage people in either country are less likely to buy "unnecessary" items like collectable toys. And the minimum wage statistics for America aren't accurate, because the people on those wages earn tips to make up the difference, and those are rarely declared (for tax or statistical purposes). This is why they have recommended tipping rates (of about 15%) to make up for the low "minimum wage" rate. Since our minimum wage earners don't get tips, it is impossible to compare the real (actual) earnings of our minimum earners to American minimum earners.
Inflation isn't a factor because it applies to America as well (hence the 30% increase in Deluxe pricing in the last 10 years).
And most stores here have maintained the same price during the last 10 years ($25-30 for a Deluxe is what it was since Beast Machines came here while our Dollar was at it's worst). Hasbro raised our prices when the Dollar weakened (Deluxes went from $20 in Beast Wars to $30 in Beast Machines & RiD) while the US price of the Deluxes stayed the same during that time... but when our Dollar strengthened, did we see an improvement in our prices? Nup. The Wholesale price stayed at AU$17-18 for Deluxes (depending on the store chain and how many they bought), so stores like Kmart and BigW did compete with each other about 3 years ago and got as low as $23-24, but not because the wholesale price dropped... while stores like Toyworld, TRU and Myer have stayed at $30 since 2001.
The cost to Hasbro Australia dropped by half during the last 10 years, due to the exchange rate going from US50 cents to US$1.10... so factoring in the inflation of 30% that American Deluxe prices have seen during that time, Hasbro Australia have only passed on 30% of the 100% increase in profit margin that they made in the last 10 years.
Still fair?
(this is why I keep records of all the prices reported ever since Ozformers started in 1996, and archive the current prices for reference (even have the occasional wholesale prices from Hasbro too)... so that I can enlighten the newer fans on how much we've been cheated in Australia all these years)
I still think you are completely wrong, but... For me forums are about fun discussions and questions not arguments so I'm going to leave it here.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
I don't mind being wrong, and do appreciate being pointed to evidence of it, so that I can then update and archive my records to these sorts of commonly asked about things.
And if I am wrong, I don't want to look like an idiot if there is something obvious out there that I'm missing... especially after 16 years of tracking our prices and finding out as much as I can about every step in the whole design-to-purchase life cycle of our beloved Transformers. :)
Okay I'm seeing the words, "retail", "huge" and "wages" being thrown around.
I work in retail as a visual merchandiser and my pay has only just gone up to $19 an hour and I only get 25 hours a week. So stop quoting Mr Abbott and Hockey's falsehoods about a wages blow out.
Alright a little background then I don't want to hear about it anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by SMHFConvoy
I'm not quoting any politicians, I hate them all and I don't even watch the news so I don't know what those idiots say. It's my knowledge from listing to people like economist Michael Pachter and my OWN experience working in retail since I graduated High School 13 year ago that I'm speaking from. I've done management so I've seen what wages are really like and they are ridiculous.
My first job was in Produce at a supermarket and where i got most of my management experience. We took in $8000 at the register per week sometimes $10000, to run the department well wages were around $4000 a week even using jr.'s after school instead of older workers. So thats half an average weeks income from the department used on wages if you staff to keep the place full at all times which most supermarkets don't anymore because of wages. Out of the rest you still have to pay the farmer, delivery, rent on crates and pallets and some of front counter wages.
These days I refuse to do anything to do with management. I'm happiest just serving customers. I know it's frustrating to look at an item and know it cost less in other countries but just because the exchange rate is around $0.80 to $1 doesn't mean that an item thats $10 in America should cost $12 on our shelves. Bottom line is if you want a $13 +GST deluxe class toy in Australia you have to lower cost to the stores first.
I can relate to that.
The last (warehouse) job I was at was what I considered "overpaid" for what we did, and most people were earning more than the junior managers... but a change of management 4-5 years ago, has led to pay rates dropping. Not just freezing, but actually going down, because of the manipulation of our minimum productivity rates.
I went down from mid 80 thousand to mid 60 thousand during that time, but still doing the same rate of work.
Politicians are making it worse, too busy fighting each other instead of fighting FOR us. :(
As such, the we do indeed have some high wages in Australia, but the gap between the wages of those industries and others is widening, while the costs of living keep going up faster than the lower paid people are earning.
As for the comparative costs here to America, last year one of the Members here got their hands on the wholesale price listing by Hasbro. The Deluxe class wholesale price is AU$18.50 (about US$16.65)... that's means Hasbro Australia are charging our Retailers MORE than what they cost at the stores in America.
So before the variable factors come into play (tax, transport, wages), American retailers pay about US$8 for a Deluxe (giving Hasbro America a little under $4 profit per unit), while our retailers pay US$16.65 for a Deluxe (giving Hasbro Australia about $12 profit per unit - and most of that goes back to Hasbro America, which is why their quarterly statements show a huge international revenue profit AFTER the local branches have covered their costs and profit).
That sucks man. Hate hearing those sort of things, especially when you have to do the exact same work. Just isn't fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
OK Griff, that adds a new wrinkle to the argument. A well known problem they have in America is Walmart and to lesser extent Amazon's predatory practices where all they care about is their profit, not their suppliers viability. Walmart is well known to squeeze suppliers like Hasbro so much that they can't make a profit. The supplier then can choose not to do business with Walmart which is very bad idea with how huge Walmart is, or they can take what little cash Walmart will offer for their product. Unfortunately they can't then goto Target, Kmart or TRU and say "we will sell the item to you for $4 more than we sell to Walmart". That won't fly either.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Basically if those figures are accurate then Hasbro is undercharging America and really should be charging them something similar to our prices just to make a profit. May I suggest adding to your article on pricing in AU vs US some language that points out that thanks to Walmart squeezing it's suppliers Hasbro may well be undercharging its American customers and not necessarily over charging us.
Do a Google search for "walmart forces suppliers to lower prices" for references.
It's not just toys that face this issue in Australia. Why do you think that we just held an enquiry into software prices where Adobe and Apple were forced to justify at an enquiry why Australians pay up to twice as much for digital downloads of their content? Gues what? They couldn't!! Shock! Horror!!:eek::rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by DELTAprime
This has nothing to do with Australian wages. The car industry is the same. Take a brand new Japanes car, a corolla. In the USA, a new corolla is $16,800 before all your dealer charges. (I just looked at the Toyota USA site). The same model in Aus is $19,990. Almost $3K difference for no reason at all. Take a more expensive car like a WRX. USA price $25,995. Aus price $41,000! :eek: For the SAME car! How do car manufacturers justify that? Shipping distance is about equal, cars are the same execpt for RHD/LHD.
These prices arise form the fact that we are an isolated market with less buying power. Our isolation has also in th epast made it easier for international companies to exploit us as we really had no idea what other countries pay for the same items we do.
I don't disagree that some wages in Australia have grown to unsustainable levels in the last decade or so, but that it not the cause of us paying considerably more for TFs than the USA. We have always paid more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
QFTQuote:
Originally Posted by Trent
First point, we don't just put markup on an item at the store to make a profit for the shareholders. It's also to cover our wages (and they are very high) among other expenses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trent
As for your second point I'm glad you pointed it out. I tried to put that in a post but didn't know how to articulate it properly so I deleted it. Thank you
That makes my quantum fields particles feel all excited and stuff. Oh "Quoted for Truth"?Quote:
Originally Posted by 5FDP
(moved several posts here, since I posted the comment that led to that huge derailment of the news topic)