Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Melbourne Lamborghini is one of my customers and the cars in their showroom look very like Classics Sunstreaker. I keep meaning to ask them if I can pose my Tf with their cars.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
Melbourne Lamborghini is one of my customers and the cars in their showroom look very like Classics Sunstreaker. I keep meaning to ask them if I can pose my Tf with their cars.
jaydisc: I think there are laws which dictate how similar a toy can be to something like a real life vehicle before the toy company has to pay a licensing fee. AFAIK HasTak have lawyers which review and approve their products - including things like visual likeness and how much they can get away with in terms of making similar to a certain product before needing to pay licensing. We know they definitely do it with names so I think they also do it with things like vehicles. So things like Universe/Henkei Sunstreaker is probably just within the legal limits of how much Hasbro can imitate a Lamborghini without having to pay for licensing. If you look at the movie toys they actually have vehicle makers' names and logos displayed (e.g. GM, Lockheed & Martin, Corvette etc.) which indicates to me that Hasbro must've sought permission from those companies.
Those are more examples of other companies manufacturing toys under licence from the original company. For example, Kabuya manufactures a lot of Transformers candy/gum PVCs and model kits - and it would have been done so under licence from Takara. Likewise Jayjays is a separate company from Hasbro, but they are able to manufacture Transformers clothes under licence from Hasbro. So I'd say that a Macross toy or model manufactured by say Yamato, would've been done so under licence from Big West.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereticpoo
If you're unhappy with an official TF product, then just don't buy it. I'm not collecting Mighty Muggs because I think they're complete crap. I think most of us here entirely skipped Transformers Animorphs for similar reasons! Just because you're a TF collector doesn't mean you have to buy _everything_ that's an official licensed TF product, unless you're a completist - but again, that's a choice you make. But I don't see my dislike for Mighty Muggs as a justification for buying a KO. Just because HasTak won't officially reissue a certain toy doesn't mean I'll go buy a KO of it. For instance, I need the Trainbots - and I've seen plenty of KO Raidens around (first time I saw one was in 2001). But just because Takara won't reissue Raiden doesn't mean that I'll go get a KO. I'll either save up and buy a legit one, or just not get one!! (yes, I can live without that toy!) - as a collector I would rather not have the toy at all over having a counterfeit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereticpoo
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereticpoo
Absolutely. I completely agree. I'm just saying I don't think there's any measurable definition (like your 10%). It's simply lawyers guessing what they can get away with and judges deciding.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
What? Do hasbro make transformers? NO.Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverDragon
They pay people in Japan to design them.
Then pay people in China to produce them.
Then they market them in the US. That's it, they invest and sell. They only invest in things that they believe will sell. If they believe that animated toys will sell well... and they already have a partial investment in unique moulds, then they will most likely release further animated toys.
True dat. Gok my man a challenge for you, or anyone who would know. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Has there ever been a non Hasbro or Takara;
Toy (transforming toy, not statue, pvc figure, model kit, chewing gum, tshirt, coffee cup, car sticker, pogostick, role playing mask/gun/cape, keychain, spirograph, or table matt, Toy. )
.....that transforms from alt mode to robot and back.
.....that is an official transformers character from any licenced medium (Film, comic, anime).
with faction symbols, that is a 100% Official TRANSFORMERS registered product, thats been engineered, designed, developed, sold by a licenced third party manufacturer?
Hereticpoo, Antex produced Minibots for Argentina and Saltmen X + Z
What about the employment opportunities for the poor factory workers making the KO's! Don't forget about the little people.
I agree completely that they are different. My point though is they come into existence b/c of the very same act. What's done after cannot right the first wrong. And in an ideal world, we should not be condoning either. Intention to make a good custom could easily be equated intention to make a good KO. That doesn't change the fact that there is IP being infringed, there is a deprivation of an opportunity for Hasbro/Takara (whether or not they choose to take it). We can't determine that b/c it is good for us, that that somehow makes it right. We can like it but that doesnt' change the fact that we are supporting something unsanctioned and depends exclusively on the Hasbro/Takara characters and toys and hence IP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hereticpoo
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
I don't think its wrong at all. I'm perfectly comfortable with cheating in my r/ships :p But in all seriousness, I do agree with you. I have no problem at all at buying mass-customs. I love them and I think they have changed the way Hasbro thinks about repackaging toys. Just look at Wingblade Prime, Samurai Prime and Hydrodive BB. It costs them less to work with an old mold and just add armour basically but creates a whole new demand for that figure. What I do think is wrong is that we think we're somehow morally right to chastise KOs but fail to see that mass-customisers are guilty of the same infringement. You can't condone one and not the other b/c it makes you hypocritical. As such, I don't see myself as any longer able to be angered by KOs. I can't accept an infringement when it works for me but get angry when it doesn't.
I also agree with your parallel. It's very ironic how the lines are drawn!
Thanks! I liked it too and was hoping to get more kudos for such a lovely title :o Much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
I don't disagree with your point but again I don't think it makes it okay to commit the core infringement. In the case of both mass-customs and KOs, they take something (character or toy) that is not their's and use it for their own ends to produce something whose entire success rests on Hasbro/Takara IP. A Sunstreaker toy does not on the other hand rely solely on its appeal as a Lamborghini to succeed. People don;'t buy it b/c it's a Lambo. They buy it b/c its a transformer and it looks nice. So yes, I think you make a valid point but I don't think it changes the landscape at all here as ultimately the core infringement relies on something that is entirely Hasbro/Takara's to succeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle
I don't honestly think they'd be too different from the ones that normal TFs are made in either. You've gotta remember, all stuff is made in China these days. And a large reason for that is the low cost of labour.Quote:
Originally Posted by canofwhoopass_87
You mistake me again. As stated clearly in the Soapbox, I'm not by any means saying KOers aren't guilty or deceptive. I contended all along that both mass-customisers and KOers step all over IP. Neither is less culpable. The only reduced culpability that mass-customisers have is derived from the fact that we like their products and that in itself isn't a very rigid position from which to hold some air of moral superiority when we're accepting something just b/c it's convenient to our interests. It's the same infringement and what we need to do is acknowledge that and admit that it's not right.Quote:
Originally Posted by MV75
That's not to say we can't like mass-custom offerings b/c I sure as hell do. But to be credible we need to remember where the line in the sand is. Fact is, both have crossed it and we can't hold to our arguments about the morality of it all when we are condoning the very same act that permits a KO or mass-custom to be produced.
Really? Doesn't that mean Eric Siebenaler, Don Figueroa, Derrick J. Wyatt and Aaron Archer get paid for just sitting around on their arses all day?Quote:
Originally Posted by d*r*j*
That's not entirely true. In many cases Hasbro contributes too. Through reading the Takara Staff Interview with Ono Koujin in TF Generations and meeting up and talking with Hasbro designer Eric Siebernaler, my understanding of how it works is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by d*r*j
+ Hasbro tells Takara what they want and sends them conceptual design sketches
+ Takara then engineers these designs into toys
+ After Hasbro approves the final designs they are then manufactured in China
They didn't _make_ them though. They just got existing TF moulds like the MiniBots and Jumpstarters and repainted them and sold them to Latin American markets.Quote:
Originally Posted by roller
So afaik there hasn't been any other company that's produced mainline Transformers action figures. But then again, why would there be?? The only time HasTak would ever licence out to another company would be to produce things that they themselves don't, like clothes, comic books, cartoons, movies etc. Otherwise if they can do it themselves, why wouldn't they?
With franchises like Gundam and Macross it's different, they're not predominantly (or initially) toy franchises - they're animé franchises. Animé companies like Big West then go and licence various companies to manufacture merchandise for them. Transformers on the other hand is primarily HasTak's action figure franchise. So I think comparing Transformers with franchises like Gundam and Macross is like apples and oranges.
Compare it with other primarily toy franchises like LEGO, Barbie and Hot Wheels. When have LEGO ever allowed another company to manufacture LEGO toys for them? There are other brands of building block toys for sure, but none of them are actually LEGO (afaik).
And if we shut down drug makers we'll also be leaving many people without a form of employment. They might just have to go and make an honest living! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by canofwhoopass
Watch this :)
Touche! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Just because HasTak does not rely on the infringements it makes to succeed in selling toys (this is still debatable), then the infringements it makes are no longer infringements?Quote:
Originally Posted by STL
If I don't need to steal but I go ahead and steal from a shop anyway, is it a lesser offence than someone who steals from myself?
Sadly in certain disadvantaged countries that is pretty much the only way to make a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Oh but were talking about TF's. Like most posters I think there's an ethical world of difference between an object that is vaugely similar to something you've produced and one that is trying to look exactly like your product and pass itself of as the same thing.
Although it can't be denied they both infringe on Hasbro's intelectual property.
I think there are two arguments here - legal and ethical/moral.
Legal point: yes, both counterfeits and fan items infringe on HasTak's IP.
Ethical/moral point: counterfeits are direct violations and attempt to deceive consumers whereas fan items do not. Counterfeiters are primarily motivated by personal gain/profit whereas fan item producers are primarily motivated by their love for the franchise and dedication to the fandom. As I understand it the money they charge for these items is to cover the cost of manufacture, and not for profit. If they are substantially profiting from this, then it would change the ethical argument - but I'm working on the assumption that they're not-for-profit.
There's still a distinction here. The fan item producers are ensuring that they don't directly complete with Hasbro/TT, and are generally treading around flagrant _copyright_ infringement. Sure, they're clearly producing items related to Transformers, but they're not producing items to compete with Hasbro/TT's product.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
I think it's fair to assume that Hasbro/TT had no plans to make anything like (for example) City Commander. Classics Ultra Magnus is one of _many_ white Ultra Magnus repaints produced to milk the mould (keeping R&D costs down), and we've never had power armour for any of those.
On the other hand, they may have had Mirage in their sights as a reissue before the KO producers flooded the market with imitations. The KO producers are clearly not worried about stepping on IP toes, and are in effect competing (in fact, illegally outcompeting) with Hasbro/TT's potential TCS/Encore Mirage.
With Drift already out, and Defender and others announced, is this true anymore?Quote:
Originally Posted by dirge
Sorry, I was referring to accessories, rather than "customs" as such. The actual characters are on the other side of that fence.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
Do you guys think originally-packaged KO makers are being deceptive as well, e.g.
http://itfdb.com/temporary/tf/124893...ickey.JPG.jpeg
Yes, but to a lesser degree than those who use counterfeit packaging.
Well, here is a perfect example:
Impossible Toys (makers of the Quints), have just announced plans to make a G1-styled Arcee. Personally, there is no doubt in my mind that this will have a negative effect on Hasbro's ability to sell Animated Arcee, as many G1 purists have publicly stated that they're only buying it due to a lack of a G1-styled alternative.
One could argue that this is even more damaging to Hasbro than say, a KO Sunstreaker, as the KO interferes more with the second hand market than with Hasbro directly.
I wonder how many of you here who deride KOs will also consider purchasing this? :rolleyes:
When it comes to those things, Hasbro should also share some culpability as they had ample time to make a proper G1 Arcee toy for almost 25 years but repeatedly neglected to do so despite more than a few other 'fembot' released toys.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
Hasbro's neglect of a section their market is what gives rise to such third party toys.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaydisc
Well put me down for two! :)
As much as the idea is nice, I personally would only purchase a HasTak G1 Arcee. For me, this is still just a custom.
I am also pretty sure that people who are inclined to buy this custom would also buy a legit G1 Arcee if she was ever released so it wouldn't be very damaging to sales.
I also deride KOs and will purchase several of these. Call me hypocrite.
True. But as sole owner of the property, it is at their sole discretion. I don't know that "culpability" is the best way to put it. I think a better way to put it is that Hasbro haven't defended this part of their property from copyright infringement as well as they could have. They're not to blame, but their actions have indirectly led to a loss of revenue.Quote:
Originally Posted by kup
HasTak should make a G1-style Arcee as part of Universe/Henkei.
I certainly don't. I don't collect anything that is fan-made (my collection is after all, a (licensed/official) Transformers(r) collection). That's because I personally feel that they contaminate the purity of my collection.Quote:
But for the moment, we remain content to chastise the production of KOs while we happily accept the offerings of mass-custom producers.
As for this forum, I also don't condone promoting of unnofficial items, and make sure that any news items clearly state they are not official items. If it is an item that copies or aims to imitate an existing or upcoming figure (like Drift), I would probably even omit mentioning it in the news section, unless it is to warn people off of it (like we do with KOs/counterfiet figures).
As it was mentioned in an early posting in this topic, a fan-made, original accessory that actually encourages the purchase of a legitimate product, is much more desirable (probably even by Hasbro), than a copied product or accessory that prevents the purchase of a legitimate product.
Like,
- Superion parts being available while Superion is still in stores, helps sell a combiner many weren't planning to buy.
- Universe/Henkei Inferno ladder while Inferno is still available in stores, generates the same added interest in a currently released item.
- As does Autoscout while Soundwave is in release.
- City Commander being available while stores (mostly online stores) still had Ultra Magnus in stock, means more turnover of TFs inventory for that store, prompting them to continue ordering more of the brand. Same happened with the Cliffjumper add-on package.
None of those falsely claim to be a real Transformers product, or aim to replace an existing item. As such, each item is having a positive impact on Hasbro/Takara sales.
But,
- A fan-made Drift toy is being produced despite it being announced by Hasbro that there will be an official toy soon, and people are less likely to buy both.
- A Gen1-styled Arcee toy is along the same lines, if it is released before or during the retail sale of an official Gen1-styled Arcee toy in Animated packaging.
- Masterpiece Convoy trailer is an example of what happens when there is an official release of a fan-made item. Even if it is already in circulation, additional first-hand and second-hand sales of the unnofficial product negatively impacts on the sale of the legitimate one. (it was because of this one that I don't risk buying fan-made stuff in case a real one is released and I need to replace it to keep the collection 'pure')
People purchasing a fan-made/KO figure (especially if it is cheaper or is an almost exact replica of the real thing) are less likely to purchase the real thing, and thus negatively impacts Hasbro/Takara sales.
Not to mention that Replica out-of-release figures (that don't directly impact on sales), irritates fans/collectors of real TFs products, who can no longer purchase an item with the piece of mind that it isn't a fake. It can also indirectly impacts on legitimate sales (albeit a negligible amount), by the occasional newbie/kid/parent who gets stung by a counterfeit, and gets turned off the whole franchise/fandom.
This isn't a criticism towards anyone here who buys fake TFs or items that compete with legitimate items, because there is too much demand overseas for cheap immitations for us (the fans) to ever stop it. If it really is a problem to Hasbro's bottom line, they need to step up, pull their finger out, stop all the talk, and do something affirmative about it for once.
As it stands, Hasbro and TakaraTomy will only spend more money on significant existing investments - the unreleased Animated toys and Titaniums Prowl & Grimlock already got to mould stage, so most of the expense has been made and they needed to be produced to offset the prior significant investment, as opposed to the other Titaniums (Arcee, Shockwave, Cosmos) which didn't get to mould stage, so not enough expense warranted taking them further to be produced.
Replicas of past items are probably not of great concern to Hasbro/Takara, as it would be deemed a waste of money stopping them if they didn't feel that it would tarnish their brand's image enough with their continued existence.
With customizing of toys it should be for personal use only and through private commissions only. I like to see customizers work and admire it, but when someone builds up a reputation and starts selling them on ebay that to me is infringing on the intellectual property. Online stores selling custom kits, along with official transformer products, is misleading even though these products are unofficial and are stated to be. This stuff should be only privately produced.
And to be now hypocritical!
I think the Quint customs are great! its a pity these customs are not produced by hasbro/takara.
And also I hate KO's I have one bad KO experience through ebay, and I will never recommend them to anyone, not even for customs. Get rid of them/ destroy them and take them out of circulation. I thought I had bought a legit product, even the picture looked legit, but the actual item I recieved was not.
I really don't think KO's hurt or have a huge impact on sales for Hasbro/Takara products, once you realize its fake and of poor quality you really have wasted your money and if you try to resale, personally I would feel guilty. But since you have already wasted your money it might be a while before you buy again. And I suppose this is a loss of a potential purchase of a legit product.
Time for my moment of hypocrisy:
I don't buy unlicensed toys or accessories, but I do buy unlicensed merchandise. e.g.: backpack, clothes, car badges etc., because finding officially licensed fashion items is damn hard to find, especially before Jayjays started doing TF clothes (which is only a fairly recent thing). And there are still lots of things that I still cannot find licensed items for like neckties, pants, socks, pyjamas etc., so anything I can't find I'll make myself using iron-on transfers. Some item are also - to me - prohibitively rare and expensive, like Transformer shoes. I'm not a sneaker collector and I'd really like some cheap generic-style TF shoes; even like the kind you'd buy at Kmart. I'd make my own pair with iron-ons, but shoes are also made from rubber which melt under the iron. :(
My goal is to build an entire wardrobe full of TF-image covered clothes and clothing accessories so that each and every day I am covered head to toe in Transformers imagery. At the moment my daily dress consists of:
+ Transformers underwear (licensed)
+ Transformers shirts (mostly licensed, some unlicensed)
+ Transformers pants (unlicensed - self made)
+ Transformers backpacks (unlicensed - one purchased, another self made)
+ Transformers umbrella (unlicensed)
+ Transformers hat (licensed)
+ Transformers jackets (licensed)
+ Transformers wristwatch (licensed)
+ Transformers scarf (unlicensed - self made)
+ Transformers glove (unlicensed - self made)
+ Transformers neckties (unlicensed - self made)
+ Transformers belts (licensed and unlicensed)
+ Transformers car badge (unlicensed, although I have licensed magnets on my car too)
I would _love_ to buy more officially licensed fashion and fashion accessories if only they would make them (for adults - I see some awesome TF clothes for kids, including a beanie which I'd buy in a heartbeat if they were made in adult sizes). :(
Legally, agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Morally, I'm not sure about that the tenacity of that assumption that it is not for profit. If it isn't, then it goes further to my point.
Even more so, I think the moral dimension of it needs to be separated from the fact .that Hasbro is a corporation. What if it was just a single individual who invested all this time into it and then this corporation ran away with the idea and made extortionate profits? I'm certain there'd be more sympathy. There are countless instants of this in commercial history, mind you. But the point is, Hasbro/Takara being a corporation does not change the nature of the transgression.
That;'s not to say that if Hasbro/Takara hasn't ever taken ideas from someone else. As Kyle has pointed out they have. But two wrongs do not make a right either. So the KOers or mass-customisers are in the same boat. It doesn't justify their position to infringe morally just b/c Hasbro/Takara have. Just b/c someone steals, it doesn't all of a sudden make sense that you steal from someone, right?
And as I noted to Gok, that makes you one of the few people have any right to decry KOs. You're consistent on your position. The rest of us, not so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
I don't think that being a replica changes the landscape on this issue. Fact is you are still also potentially depriving of Hasbro/Takara an opportunity down the line. Would they be now keen to release a armoured Ultra Magnus? Or a new Buster Prime with the guns if a cheaper custom set is available rather than buying the same figure all over? Or the custom Grimlock crown set which is now in direct competition with the Takara exclusive? You are depriving the rightful owner of their property rights whether or not they've done it yet. Once you produce it, it removes the opportunity for them or puts them in competition with something based completely on their IP. This impacts their sales. Heck though it doesn't even come down to whether it competes. Simple fact is that the infringement exists. That cannot be justified irrespective of the position. It's like saying to someone, youve got to much spare land you're doing nothing with. I'm going to build my pool onto your land onto the part you've never usedQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
You couldn't tolerate that. You can't tolerate this just b/c it works for you.
The logic just isn't sound.
[QUOTE=Defcon;120613And to be now hypocritical!Quote:
Originally Posted by gamblor916
[/QUOTE]
But that's the point of this Soapbox. We don't have to be hypocritical. we just need to appreciate our positon on the matter. The simple fact is that there is one and the one and the same infringement that occurs in the first place. That it is that same infringement that allows the existence of both. Just b/c we as fabs have a personally vested interested doesn't change the fundamental nature of the infringement. We cannot have it work for us one way, but then staunchly take the opposition position when it doesn't go our way. There has to be consistency.
That's when it's hypocritical.
How does this:
...disagree with what you were responding to:Quote:
Originally Posted by STL
I was pointing out that Replicas, even of past figures, impacts the bottom line of the Brand owners. Even if it is of a lesser amount with the Replica past figures. We know about the controversy of the Gen1 Constructicons - I think the new movie has improved the chances of a reissue, but we would have had one ages ago (for Takara to profit from and generate more reissues, and maybe even more combiner reissues), if it weren't for Replica Constructicons. The additional point I was making here is the (rare) occasion that has a potential long-term customer turned away from the Brand after being disappointed or upset over getting Replica figure (of any era) that they didn't know was a Replica when buying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin http://www.otca.com.au/boards/images...s/viewpost.gif
People purchasing a fan-made/KO figure (especially if it is cheaper or is an almost exact replica of the real thing) are less likely to purchase the real thing, and thus negatively impacts Hasbro/Takara sales.
Not to mention that Replica out-of-release figures (that don't directly impact on sales), irritates fans/collectors of real TFs products, who can no longer purchase an item with the piece of mind that it isn't a fake. It can also indirectly impacts on legitimate sales (albeit a negligible amount), by the occasional newbie/kid/parent who gets stung by a counterfeit, and gets turned off the whole franchise/fandom.
But what about consideration of motive?Quote:
Originally Posted by STL
Oops my bad. I read it as you were meaning that replicas are worse than mass-customised product b/c they hurt Hasbro/Takara's bottom line more and for that reason replicas/KOs are a worser animal. I didn't realise it was expanding on the same point for both. :oQuote:
Originally Posted by griffin
Motives we have agreed are subjective. I can't say with conviction who does it for profit, who does it "for the fandom". And I don't think it helps either whatever the motive. If a homeless person robbed your house so he could continue putting food on the table for their kids, would that make it okay? I think again, we as a fandom don't have much credibility on the issue once we starting buying these custom products. We can't have our cake and eat it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoktimusPrime
Good point. I've been robbed before and it's an awful experience - and the person's motives is inconsequential, the fact is that you've been robbed. (the cops told me it was by junkies though :()Quote:
Originally Posted by STL
Overall, yes, my entire post was scaling the different issues instead of just painting all as equally good or equally bad. It's just that the small portion of my post you quoted in your reply post, didn't appear to relate to what you were saying in your reply (to my entire post, assumedly), which confused me.Quote:
Originally Posted by STL
I see this issue as a scale/spectrum, not a simple black-and-white sorting of the elements being raised.
Replicas (of current/future product) IS worse for the bottom line, but that doesn't mean I'm saying the others are okay because they 'aren't as bad'. I don't support any, but they aren't all equally evil.
On a scale of Worst to Not-Really-That-Bad:
Replica current/future product - hurts bottom line of Hasbro/Takara most, if it is a cheaper alternative.
Replica past product - hurts the bottom line a lot less, mostly from upset customers of the fake product. As for preventing reissues - it would only limit the potential pool of reissue candidates, and we've seen 8 years of reissues with no signs of it running out of sellable candidates (Besides, Reissues aren't a significant product line/money-maker out of all the millions of TFs produced each year by Hasbro and TakaraTomy anyway, so they wouldn't care too much which figures get done if there is enough demand for it - they still took a chance with Metroplex despite the Replica).
Custom figures - would only hurt Hasbro/Takara on the rare occasion an official version of that character in that same form is produced (if Fan-made versions of Drift and Arcee go ahead, I think they would be the first - but knowing an official, well-sculpted/engineered convertable figure is on the way, these probably won't even be produced, or sell much at all).
Custom accessories - doesn't compete with Hasbro/Takara or prevent a purchase of an official product, but instead creates a need to purchase an official item for that Custom accessory, generating sales for the Brand owner.
They might all be illegal, and to some fans are all just as avoidable, but when it comes to affecting Sales, or the Bottom Line, of the Brand Owners, it's obvious that they would prioritise combatting Replicas first, because they have the greater negative impact.
It makes it difficult to claim that Customised accessories have just the same impact to Hasbro/Takara as Replica figures when we see one encourages sales of official product, while the other discourages it. Custom figures wouldn't even be close to the affect Replicas have, because even if an official figure was done later, fan-made stuff is still so different in design/engineering/sculpting, fans would still want to buy the official figure if it is good enough to buy. After all, that's what it would come down to - the existance of a fan-made alternative won't be preventing the purchase of the official figure if that official figure is just a terrible toy. If the official figure is a good toy, people who bought a fan-made figure will still buy it because the fan-made convertable figures just can't compete with the real thing.
I think that's a great spectrum you've got going there which shows degrees of relativity That said, what do you think about custom accessories that compromise Hasbro's future ability to profit. for example, the guns being made for movie Prime are in direct competition with the Buster Prime release. If you can get those relatively cheaper, why would you want to buy a US Hasbro Buster Prime which lacks all the silver of Takara (assuming they Hasbro release their own version down the track). Or if it clashes with exclusives like the Crown Grimlock? Again that directly affects sales of the official product b/c the reason they offer a second release with a slight variation down the line is to profit from the base mold. What if someone had made TFM Ironhide's guns prior to the release of the ROTF version? Again that's cannabilising future releases. This is even more the case given Hasbro has said in recent times it wants to focus on brand recognition through repainting main characters and giving them a new prefix as opposed to all new name. The way they do this is by a different accessory etc so it really bites into them and is as bad as say the first category of a custom of a current/future product.Quote:
Originally Posted by griffin
So while I do think the spectrum's a great starting point I don't think it's explanatory power is completely sound. That's probably why the focus still needs to be on recognition of the nature of the transgression here. It is one and the same across the entire spectrum. It's ultimately the same transgression that permits each of those categories to exist and in that sense none is relatively less reprehensible than the other.
Indeed, there is no such thing as 'half illegal', so each would be just as bad in the eyes of the law. I just think it is worth breaking down the scale, like the difference between murder and manslaughter (both are bad, but one is worse).
As for custom accessories that replicate future/existing accessories, it is part of the 'Replica Current/Future Product' category (I didn't use the word 'toy' because it isn't just whole toys in that category) because people will buy it, 'if it is a cheaper alternative' to the official (whole) product.
When it comes to MP Grimlock and his crown - You would not get a full $300 figure just for the hat, I certainly wouldn't. If I wanted just the hat I would go for the accessory kit instead or not get one at all.
Buster Prime's gun: Assuming I already own the first release, I wouldn't buy and import a whole figure just for the gun. I would get Buster Prime only if I didn't own the original release which I don't. However If I already owned the original, I would probably look into getting the accessory kit instead as a gun or a crown is not worth the full cost of buying the same high end figure twice.
I am sure that I am not the only one who would see it like that.