I need to vent!

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Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

I assume you can't get away with buying another ipad thing that isn't an Ipad?

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No. Any wifi capable portable device is acceptable, other than phones. So it can be any kind of tablet, laptop, notebook etc.

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Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

I often wonder about the kick back deals that go on with things like this, like did the education dept get some cheap ipads, to ensure that schools now have to buy ipads.

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Schools nothing, parents have to buy these devices! :eek: Schools may purchase a limited pool of devices to give to students whose families are experiencing financial hardship. But the majority of parents have to pay for themselves. :(

My concern is that this may be driving a wider wedge between the haves and have nots. There are minimum specifications which seems to vary between schools. :rolleyes: At my school the min. specs are:
* Wireless must support 5GHz networks marketed as 802.11na
* Must contain Windows 7 or later, or OSX Leopard 10.5.8 or later operating system
* Minimum 64Gb storage on windows device
* Minimum screen size 25cm
* Battery life of 5+ hours or a second detachable battery
* Must contain a physical keyboard
* Must contain antivirus software (at cost to the student)
* Insurance for accidental loss and breakage
* Google Apps and Microsoft Office 365 will be available to DEC students through the students DEC portal. Students will be able to download these at no cost.
So not only do parents have to purchase these devices, but they also need to pay for mandatory antivirus software and insurance. This all adds up, especially if you've got multiple kids going into high school. I'm really not a huge fan of any compulsory educational initiative which places a greater financial burden on families. It seems to detract from the core principles of education as a fundamental right for children, and not a privilege for those who can afford it <insert.rant.about.public.education.advocacy.her e>.

I'm sure that there are many teachers who will see the immediate benefits of BYOD. I think it depends on the subject matter, the teacher's individual teaching style etc. As a language teacher I still remain skeptical. But as Lord Zarak once said, "We shall see, Galvatron. We shall see."

I don't have any kids, but I'm not keen on this big push for everything being electronic in schools.
Not only the cost factor (my parents did it tough for my brother and I just buying books up until 2004. I can't imagine what would've happened if we had to buy 2 devices at today's prices.) but If iPad's are going to be used in schools, won't this just end up creating a generation of near sighted kids?
Kids already spend too long their phones, and private devices (not to mention playing consoles, etc.) Adding another small screen to stare at is just going to make things worse isn't it?

And how are kids going to retain all the knowledge from the device centered lesson? I don't know how the lessons work, but I've always found the best way to begin learning something is to physically write down notes. Does that still happen?

I'll admit, I don't know much about how kids are taught these days. And maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't like the idea of mandatory tech in schools. It just doesn't sit well with me personally. :(

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Originally Posted by Tetsuwan Convoy

I assume you can't get away with buying another ipad thing that isn't an Ipad? I often wonder about the kick back deals that go on with things like this, like did the education dept get some cheap ipads, to ensure that schools now have to buy ipads. My sceptic is large.

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You can get perfectly decent Android pads for as little as $100. I bought my Acer tablet for less than that about 3 years ago at office works and functions just fine. The only thing it can't do is play some of the latest heavier games, everything else is good.

Only seeing an Ipad as the only choice is silly beyond believe. It is the most expensive pad out there yet hardly the best.

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Originally Posted by Ploughmans Lunch

Someone stole my bike. I liked that bike. Bye, bike. :(

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that sucks dude, really sucks.

As for the discussion about devices in schools. I think a good scientific calculator is worth having. especially if you're going into a more technically oriented career.

I remember when I started year 10, back in 1994... I was heading towards a career in engineering, all the students doing the medium to high level maths had to buy a TI-82 graphing calculator. They were $192. they were cool, and programmable, some of the guys in my physics class programmed a level of what they called stick doom, it was a frame at a time but impressive on a dot matrix screen.
They also ruined my ability to draw a graph from a simple equation easily. they were only allowed in exams if you could prove to the examiner at the beginning of the class that you had wiped the memory so that you had no notes or equations written in them.
Once I got to university they were banned from all exams. I've hardly used it since.

I sometimes use excel for larger repetitive calculations but as a professional engineer, I am yet to find a more efficient tool than a pencil and pad for doing calculations and rough workings on. I think something that needs to be made clear to the education system, like everything else, just because something is cool and shiny doesn't make it better. It is important to keep up with advances in technology and be aware of it, but it doesn't have to run your entire existence.

as a non-teacher, non-parent that's my 2c.

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Originally Posted by TAAUBlaster

I don't have any kids, but I'm not keen on this big push for everything being electronic in schools.
Not only the cost factor (my parents did it tough for my brother and I just buying books up until 2004. I can't imagine what would've happened if we had to buy 2 devices at today's prices.) but If iPad's are going to be used in schools, won't this just end up creating a generation of near sighted kids?
Kids already spend too long their phones, and private devices (not to mention playing consoles, etc.) Adding another small screen to stare at is just going to make things worse isn't it?

And how are kids going to retain all the knowledge from the device centered lesson? I don't know how the lessons work, but I've always found the best way to begin learning something is to physically write down notes. Does that still happen?
I'll admit, I don't know much about how kids are taught these days. And maybe I'm getting old, but I really don't like the idea of mandatory tech in schools. It just doesn't sit well with me personally. :(

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In high school, my economics teacher used to have a board full of writing as we walked in each lesson for us to copy down in our books. Sometimes there was so much that the entire 40 minute period was taken up writing this stuff down, he didn't even get to talk to us about it.

I learned two things from that class:

1) The human brain is an incredible thing. By halfway through year 11, about half of the class could copy what was on the board into their books with only two glances at the board. TWO! After a 6-7 second look at the board, I could write down, without looking up again, AT LEAST half of what was on the board. By the end of year 12, I could pretty much do the board from one glance! We had to do this because sometimes there was multiple boards worth and he had to rub out what was on there to get the rest up before the end of the class. That was impressive.

2) I had no recolection of what I had just written down. I was memorising the words, but wasn't reading what was written. So from one glance at the board I could write the whole lot down, but couldn't tell you what it was about. I had to go back and read it once I was done.

Sounds like my electronics class. Lessons full from start to finish of writing, but the most I could probably say about it is the titles or headlines throughout it.

A little bit of recent history of the use of iPads in schools - probably none of this will be surprising:

Back in 2009, when iPads were first introduced and were pretty much the only tablet on the market, textbook publishers cottoned onto the fact that they could be used like a glorified USB with a display option, so textbooks could be loaded onto the iPad, removing the necessity of the hard copy book. Since ideally, publishers want no hardcopy texts (no second hand sales, complete control of use as they host the e-book on their site, charge full price for all users, maximise profits) publishers then worked with Apple to promote the iPad as THE electronic storage and access device. Getting in on the ground floor has meant that most schools view iPads as THE device when it comes to tablets.

Although there are many different Apps that MAY be used, for the most part, a tablet for students is to replace many kilos of weight in their bags from hard copy books.

Ironically, the feedback from students has been poor. Turns out that when viewing a PDF of a textbook you always have to start at page 1 and slide through to whatever page you need to be at - not great if you're up to chapter 12, 500 odd page swipes through. Many students, particularly more senior students resort to using the hardcopy anyway. Many schools are moving away from iPads or other tablets back to a more traditional laptop style machine. And the promised benefits in learning still haven't arrived.

I am however a big fan (as a Maths teacher) of graphics (now CAS or Computer Algebra System) calculators. Demonstrating transformations of graphs used to be a nightmare, but may be done using animations or similar graphing software. Exploring the evolution of dynamical systems (sounds like a riot, doesn't it!) would be limited to a few steps at best without it. Bluntly, the nature of the subject of Maths has evolved to a point where it would be negligent of the education system to ignore the use of CAS, even though the calculators aren't permitted in exams at Uni. Many of my past students use the CAS throughout the semester to assist them in their learning which I see as a positive thing - they are being creative in the way they accomplish the task of mastering algorithms, which when you read the study design published by the VCAA is one of the key skills that students are supposed to adopt.

A little sore in the teeth, nose and sinus region today after me and my mate both got punched during a walk between pubs night. It was unprevoked and luckily witnesses came quickly plus the cops drove around the corner 15 seconds later and nabbed the guy.

The rage he had and the way he leapt towards us was just ballistic.

That's terrible! Are you and your mate okay?

Today I took my daughter to the art gallery. When we were at our local train station, there was some random guy shouting and swearing really loudly, including spitting on the platform. It was relentless and he kept on behaving in a really belligerent and menacing way. I wasn't prepared to take my chances with my daughter in tow, not to mention other families on the platform, so I told my daughter to stand behind me as we made our way to the nearest Emergency Help Point where I pressed the button and reported what was happening. Our train soon arrived and we hopped on, so I didn't see what happened to the menacing man afterwards. When we got the Central Station, we had to change to a bus service to. But the driver arroved at our stop, he only stayed for about 20 seconds and only opened the back door. We tried to squeeze through the people and kept on saying, "Excuse me," but then the driver closed the door and drove off before we could even get halfway there. When we arrived at the next stop, I complained to the driver who, instead of apologising, gave me excuses like how he'd opened both doors (although other passengers did remark that only the rear door had opened, and our stop there was so brief that I heard many other passengers ask if we'd even stopped there at all!). So we had to get off and catch another bus back. In all, our entire train-bus trip took two and a half hours. :mad: Then on the way home, the train that we caught was nearly packed. There was one spare row of seats, but a lady decided to put her feet up, so nobody could sit there. I was just about to say something when another couple who were getting off at the next stop kindly offered their seat to us. I saw other people coming up to look for a seat, and that same girl wouldn't take her feet off. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Deonasis

A little sore in the teeth, nose and sinus region today after me and my mate both got punched during a walk between pubs night. It was unprevoked and luckily witnesses came quickly plus the cops drove around the corner 15 seconds later and nabbed the guy.

The rage he had and the way he leapt towards us was just ballistic.

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Replied here.