The Football (all sorts) Thread

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

4 Years of QLD dominance! :D

This years games have been messy, horrible games, and ANZ should be stricken from hosting NRl and representative games until the grounds can be brought up to scratch, the grounds last night were terrible, and dangerous to the players.

NSW should have won last night, the refs were calling things in their favour (while I personally believe that Hayne would have scored his 2nd try no matter what, rulings from earlier in the year should have meant it was denied for the player taking out the defenders), plus in the 2nd half NSW were absolutely dominating, but did not have any players who are well known for scoring, plenty of their players can setup tries, but none can score them.

Hayne was their best again, but only in broken play, Lyon needs to be dropped, he kept running to the sideline, then giving Williams the ball with nowhere to go but out. Wallace and Barett did nothing, and really stuffed up in the first half by trying to be clever 10metres from their line, and they paid the price for it. How NSW did not win by 20 with QLD dead on their feet at the 55 minute mark is beyond me.

And Barrett should have been sin-binned and should be gone for at least 6 weeks after that king hit (that is what it was, a swinging fisted hand from behind a player), its nice to see the only thing Barrett has learned at Cronulla is how to be a thug from two of the best in the business: Gallen and Stuart.

I think NSW would have won the game, except for one moment of inspirational brilliance from Price. That chargedown turned the game and lifted his teammates.

Wholesale changes for NSW, need new halves, centres and Farrah is on his last chance, Gidley was more dangerous from dummy-half, and had Wing and Lewis been fit, they would have dominated. I like Farrah, but he has been ineffective in origin, when he is normally so dominant in club footy. Using Morris as a bench player was stupid, NSW selections as a whole this series have been ridiculous.

Another gutsy QLD victory when they had no real right to win, not a pretty game or victry, but we'll take it!

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Yes ANZ stadium has to sop having so many games so close together (I was at the match) during this week last Friday they had Bulldogs VS Penrith, Saturday nite Swans VS Collingwood & then the origin

I found Hayne to be one of the best on the park it's a shame that his team mates esp Wallace weren't the same, he should have been hooked at 1/2 time his kicking game was terrible and that's just a starters, I'm a NSW fan but I knew we wouldn't win, NSW were kinda playing like my team Parramatta, relying on some Hayne magic to score. Then when they had qld on their feet they decide to panic and go for the risky plays. Our totally horrible ball handling in that first 20 or so killed us. If they want to stop a whitewash they have to get rid of players like Kite (he was useless), Wallace & Lyon, as said above what about the Morris twins and other players like them, also he may be getting old but one of the best 1/2 back's this year has been Brett Kimorley yet they don't want to choose him. Actually thinking about it, they should have a Hindmarsh out there, he is the kind of player like a Price who keeps going and going and makes those inspirational plays, or chases a player down and stops them from scoring. Oh well we know the selectors are stupid and won't do anything positive

Finally NSW wins and Price gets what he deserves:)

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

Finally NSW wins and Price gets what he deserves:)

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Lol I know about time

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

Finally NSW wins and Price gets what he deserves:)

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Cannot believe Waterhouse did that, coming in with a king hit while there was a 1-on-1 fight in process. His excuse of "trying to break it up" is laughable, never seen someone elbow someone in the back of the head to break up a fight before. If that happened in an ordinary game of league, hed be gone for 6 (or more) weeks, but since it is origin, he'll get away with only a week or so.

NSW played really well, White, Creagh, Watmough in particular, had Farrah been given that kind of forward pack to work with in games 1 and 2, he would have torn QLD apart, Ennis was terrible, and had to be replaced 25 minutes in because his foul play would have started giving away penalties.

Reffing was terrible again, I personally feel that the penalty try was fine to be given, but by the rules of the game it should not have been. When refs blunder that big (they are after all paid to be professional full time referees) they should be docked all their pay (donate it to a charity) and be dropped to a lower grade for a few weeks. They lost control of the game in the 5th minute with the high shot that didnt even go on report, then allowing players to lay all over the play the ball area, and letting the markers stand wherever the hell they wanted.

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

Cannot believe Waterhouse did that, coming in with a king hit while there was a 1-on-1 fight in process. His excuse of "trying to break it up" is laughable, never seen someone elbow someone in the back of the head to break up a fight before.

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Come on Scott I know your a maroon supporter but you can see on several replays the punch from Brett White that knocks Price out. Waterhouse just crash tackled Price. The only way he would of elbowed Price was if they landed akwardly. Waterhouse got sent off for escalating the situation.

If anyone got away with anything it was that grub Hodges and his swinging arm on Gidley after Cam Smiths bomb.

Of course I'm incredibly biased as well towards NSW but either way an elbow to the back of the head will generally break up a fight because not too many people will keep fighting after coping one of those:p

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

but either way an elbow to the back of the head will generally break up a fight because not too many people will keep fighting after coping one of those:p

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Thats the kind of crap that never need rear its head in a football game, or elsewhere, if Waterhouse really wanted to break up the fight, jumping on someones head is not the way to do it. When it is one on one, let them duke it out and deal with the consequences when they end it.
It was a low act, lower than Barrett swinging his arms around peoples necks, and far worse than Thurstons kick which did far more damage than it first appeared to.

If Waterhouse was a Sharks player I'd understand his behavior, Stuart trains his teams to be thugs, not footballers. Barrett laughing while Price was prone on the ground shows the calibre of the player.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXPfsbeTVyY

:05 Price knees White in the head. Uncalled for

:37 White connects on the left side of Price's head knocking him out. 2 seconds later Waterhouse tackles price. The left arm goes around Price's sternum. The right arm hits Price's shoulder and slides up as an unconcious Price drops to the ground.

Thankfully Waterhouse got acquitted last night. Rightfully so.

Woo Ho! Perfect week in the tipping comp at work:D

Karmichael Hunt to play for the Gold Coast AFL team? Haha I can't wait to see that, to be honest I think he will adapt pretty well, won't win a brownlow or anything but he is plenty athletic enough and should be able to adapt seeing as he has played as junior, I have heard anyway...

I can't picture it to be honest. What was he thinking when he signed on?? League to union I can see, but league to AFL? I wonder what his price was? :confused:

Rugby League -> Rugby and Rugby -> Rugby League converts tend to struggle, including many some backgrounds in the other codes (such as Timana Tahu). I can't see this working for Hunt. But hey, for the Gold Coast AFL club it's a success because it generates the headlines they're after. Smart move by them, getting themselves on TV - but a very risky move by the player.

Very risky by the Gold Coast Club.

Hunt is an injury prone player, and I dont know if he can bulk up to AFL level and not continually injure himself.

Hodges or Inglis would be better AFL players, but I think Hunt will give it a fair go for 3 years before returning to league.

It's all publicity, what better way to is there gain supporters for a new AFL team in a opposition codes state than by signing up one of the opposition codes players, and one of their biggest ones at that? Interesting to see how it all goes, and I agree that someone in the mould of GI or Hodges etc would make a better AFL player, but we'll see I guess, long time to wait to check him out in action though, in a competitive sense anyway, I'm sure we'll see training footage sometime soon

I don't know about Hodges playing AFL. Inglis would be good. Someone like Chris Lawrence would be a good AFL player. He's very athletic, solid, quick hands and has a good long range kicking game (according to Tim Sheens)

I can guarantee you all that St Kilda Fans are like this right now
http://www.majhost.com/gallery/jimme...tergriffin.gif

What did everyone think of the game?

GO PARRA!

Boys and girls, as big kev would say, " i'm excited!"

GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!
GO PARRA!

Dont worry, the Storm will end your fairytale next week. ;)

Can't wait for the Storm to wipe the floor with Parramatta. It'll shut all the bandwagoners traps for them.

And it will be nice to know the NRL failed to get Parra to win a premiership, considering all the help they have given them with the refereeing and judicial decisions.

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

Can't wait for the Storm to wipe the floor with Parramatta. It'll shut all the bandwagoners traps for them.

And it will be nice to know the NRL failed to get Parra to win a premiership, considering all the help they have given them with the refereeing and judicial decisions.

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Gotta agree with you there Trunks. I almost wannasee parra win just so Fatbot will be happy but I think they had a bit of luck. I thought that touch judge had money on Parra goingoff some of his decisions. Oh and what's the difference between Jarryd Hayne's knee drop and Bryce Gibbs' knee drop. Why was Hayne only given a grade1 and Gibbs a grade 2 !? (thats a rhetorrical question. Being an NRL fan I know they are pushing their new golden boy)

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

Gotta agree with you there Trunks. I almost wannasee parra win just so Fatbot will be happy but I think they had a bit of luck. I thought that touch judge had money on Parra goingoff some of his decisions. Oh and what's the difference between Jarryd Hayne's knee drop and Bryce Gibbs' knee drop. Why was Hayne only given a grade1 and Gibbs a grade 2 !? (thats a rhetorrical question. Being an NRL fan I know they are pushing their new golden boy)

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I missed the game (couldn't care less about dogs/eels) but when I saw the footage of Hayne kneeing an opposition player in the neck when he should have just jumped over him my first thought was "4 weeks". Then my second thought was, "no, the NRL is trying to get Parra a premiership, he'll get off."

If it had have been Slater doing the exact same thing (or any melbourne player) he would have been given 3-4 weeks easy.

Chicken wing was iffy, I don't think the intent was there, but it was still a chicken wing tackle. Good decision to put him on report then dropping the charge after the game.

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

I missed the game (couldn't care less about dogs/eels) but when I saw the footage of Hayne kneeing an opposition player in the neck when he should have just jumped over him my first thought was "4 weeks". Then my second thought was, "no, the NRL is trying to get Parra a premiership, he'll get off."

If it had have been Slater doing the exact same thing (or any melbourne player) he would have been given 3-4 weeks easy.

Chicken wing was iffy, I don't think the intent was there, but it was still a chicken wing tackle. Good decision to put him on report then dropping the charge after the game.

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What a load of BS that ruling was. Cam Smith was suspended last year for the final and both Hayne and Keating get off with a slap on the wrist. Anyway, this is the final I wanted anyway, since Slater will show Hayne why he's the incumbent Test fullback. People seem to forget that Slater has been consistent all year but Hayne suddenly decides in last 10 weeks he wants to play and now he's the golden child. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Fungal Infection

What a load of BS that ruling was. Cam Smith was suspended last year for the final and both Hayne and Keating get off with a slap on the wrist. Anyway, this is the final I wanted anyway, since Slater will show Hayne why he's the incumbent Test fullback. People seem to forget that Slater has been consistent all year but Hayne suddenly decides in last 10 weeks he wants to play and now he's the golden child. :rolleyes:

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Actually Hayne has been good all year when at fullback not at 5/8 where we started him this season

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Originally Posted by Bartrim

Gotta agree with you there Trunks. I almost wannasee parra win just so Fatbot will be happy but I think they had a bit of luck. I thought that touch judge had money on Parra goingoff some of his decisions. Oh and what's the difference between Jarryd Hayne's knee drop and Bryce Gibbs' knee drop. Why was Hayne only given a grade1 and Gibbs a grade 2 !? (thats a rhetorrical question. Being an NRL fan I know they are pushing their new golden boy)

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I think with the grading he got a Grade 1 due to the fact that it was from a kick and he was going for the loose ball initally but with Gibbs one Burt already had the ball in his possession before even going for the try. I know the debate would rage on but I think they got it right and it will make for a better and more entertaining game, like come off it who wouldn't want Hayne VS Slater.

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Originally Posted by mknell

Actually Hayne has been good all year when at fullback not at 5/8 where we started him this season

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That is what makes Hayne an okay footballer, not a great one. He can only play fullback/wing. Put him anywhere else and he is a liability.

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Originally Posted by mknell

I think with the grading he got a Grade 1 due to the fact that it was from a kick and he was going for the loose ball initally but with Gibbs one Burt already had the ball in his possession before even going for the try. I know the debate would rage on but I think they got it right and it will make for a better and more entertaining game, like come off it who wouldn't want Hayne VS Slater.

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The fact that Burt took a dive didnt hurt either. Kneeing someone intentionally (he went to his knees when there was no need) in the neck is much worse than copping it to the backside.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I would have preferred to see Lachlan Coote, Gidley or Bowen vs. Slater in the grand final. They are all better fullbacks than Hayne. (so are Stewart and Hunt, but I dont like either player)

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

That is what makes Hayne an okay footballer, not a great one. He can only play fullback/wing. Put him anywhere else and he is a liability.



The fact that Burt took a dive didnt hurt either. Kneeing someone intentionally (he went to his knees when there was no need) in the neck is much worse than copping it to the backside.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I would have preferred to see Lachlan Coote, Gidley or Bowen vs. Slater in the grand final. They are all better fullbacks than Hayne. (so are Stewart and Hunt, but I dont like either player)

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Hayne's problem at 5/8 is he tried to do more than he should, where at fullback he can rove a bit more, it's the same with Slater really put him at 5/8 and it just wouldn't work. Where a player like Gidley it does work as he is a great utility player in that way. Just remember Hayne is only 21, in previous years he has done quite well for himself, in 06 he was great in his first year, was very good in 07, last year he was way too quiet coz he was stupid and got shot at and I think that really shook him up.

You must really really hate Hayne don't you?

I personally think Hayne is great, Slater's just a better, consistent player all round. What I don't like is the fact that alot of people are now jumping on the Hayne/Parra bandwagon now that they're winning. My mate at work who is the biggest Parra suporter I know, wrote off Parra this year and was bagging out the players and coach and how Finchy was pushed out, Anderson is a crap coach blah, blah, blah, now they're winning he's singing their praises!!! Where's the loyalty??!

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Originally Posted by mknell

You must really really hate Hayne don't you?

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Not at all, he is fine Fullback, just nowhere near as good as the media have pumped him up to be over the past 10 weeks. I think his experience with the Fijian national side stopped him from turning into a SBW type player, and having solid role models like Hindmarsh and Cayless around would not have hurt.

What I hate is the complete inconsistency concerning the NRL.

Still, I fully expect the Eels to do a 2001 and choke.

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Originally Posted by Fungal Infection

I personally think Hayne is great, Slater's just a better, consistent player all round. What I don't like is the fact that alot of people are now jumping on the Hayne/Parra bandwagon now that they're winning. My mate at work who is the biggest Parra suporter I know, wrote off Parra this year and was bagging out the players and coach and how Finchy was pushed out, Anderson is a crap coach blah, blah, blah, now they're winning he's singing their praises!!! Where's the loyalty??!

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I'm a huge parra fan & season ticket holder, barely missed a game this year bar ones overseas & interstate. I loved that we got rid of Finchy, he is a player that buckles when he is the main focus to organise the team & get the job done where at Melbourne he has players like Cronk & Smith to do this instead. All season I thought Anderson was doing a great job but in my eyes he was looking to the future and building a team not really thinking about getting it this year.

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

Not at all, he is fine Fullback, just nowhere near as good as the media have pumped him up to be over the past 10 weeks. I think his experience with the Fijian national side stopped him from turning into a SBW type player, and having solid role models like Hindmarsh and Cayless around would not have hurt.

What I hate is the complete inconsistency concerning the NRL.

Still, I fully expect the Eels to do a 2001 and choke.

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Yeah I agree that he could have very much turned into a SBW, if we loose I wouldn't call it a choke because we weren't the raging favorites and leading all year, I think we have exceded expectations.

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

Not at all, he is fine Fullback, just nowhere near as good as the media have pumped him up to be over the past 10 weeks. .

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QFT

The media makes Hayne out to be some sort of super freak with ESp or something. No he just has more time because he is a fullback. We saw what happened earlier in the year when he was in the number 6 jersey. Put any playmaker in the fullback attacking position and watch them shine.

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Originally Posted by i_amtrunks

That is what makes Hayne an okay footballer, not a great one. He can only play fullback/wing. Put him anywhere else and he is a liability.

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Your 100% right, Hayne can only play the two positions, but then they aren't many footballers today who can play more then that. Slater can't, Cam Smith can't, yet people recognise these two as being among the best footballers ever produced. The only player, past or present that i can think of that can play mutiple roles would be Lockyer. Even if we go back a few years men like Webke, Andrew Johns, Langmack, Fittler, Langer, Lewis and many many others who are considered to be among the greats only ever played ONE position successfully, yet you think a players no good unless he can play 3 or more positions?

Part of a successful football side, not matter what the shape of the ball, is picking the right player in the right position, it doesn't matter if that player can only play in the one position. it would be nice if players could be moved and swapped around willy nilly, but in reality, it's better to have players play in a position that they can excel at, no matter what that position is, Hayne and every other player in the Eels squad proves that point.

Further poof for this point comes from the Bulldogs and Eels squads from the '80's, every single player played in the one position, and between the two squads dominated rugby league for eight years.

Lockyer was always a 5/8th, but Bennett stuck him at Fullback until 5/8th became available (he debuted at 5/8th during an Origin series when the Broncos were depleted). It's testament to him that he thrived at fullback.

There are players from time to time who can excel in multiple positions - Greg Florimo & Jason Croker are (older) examples, but they're the exception in league, rather than the rule. I can't think of any top players in the last few years who have been able to serve as true "utility" players. Mannering at the Warriors is very versatile, but he's not quite at the same level that Lockyer is (and Croker and Florimo were).

Ahh just got back from NZ where we watched the AFL grand final, Cat's didn't win the GF, Saints lost it by not taking advantage of their chances, so many missed goals and opportunities. I was going for the cats anyway so didn't bother me, Storm getting through to the GF was pretty epic though and we've done it in good form, so I can't wait for this Sunday. Fingers crossed we'll make it 2 from 4 and not 1 from 3 :mad:

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Originally Posted by dirge

I can't think of any top players in the last few years who have been able to serve as true "utility" players. Mannering at the Warriors is very versatile, but he's not quite at the same level that Lockyer is (and Croker and Florimo were).

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Luke Lewis is probably the only everywhere player, he might not be in the top 3 players at any position (as a specialist) but put him where you need a player and he won't do you wrong.

Gidley is probably the best ball player in terms of versatility, he can play backs (wing, fullback) and in the halves, and do well enough. (Considering he has this role at Origin level).

Fatbot is right on the money that players are more or less specialised, and this starts at the under 12 level. Only similar roles can be switched (wing, fullback.) Most #7 cannot play at #6, nor can many wingers even play centres these days!

Hayne is like most fullback/wing/centres, great because is young, fast and strong when allowed to run, but in a few years time when he slows down, he'll have to bulk up and move into the forwards, as he doesnt have the ball skills to run the game as a half/ five eighth.

Yeah I forgot Gidley...

Hayne will probably end up in the second row, but the outside back moving into the pack isn't a new trend. Those that tend to stay in the backs are usually those who don't rely on speed in the first place, like Sailor & Mick Hancock. Wendell had speed, but it was never his greatest asset.

BTW Sam, I'm curious. What made you follow the Storm? A 20 something yeah old Sydneysider into league would normally have had a team already by 1998. Did you suddenly start following league (a late bloomer) or did you switch from Norths?

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Originally Posted by fatbot

Your 100% right, Hayne can only play the two positions, but then they aren't many footballers today who can play more then that. .

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DANIEL FITZHENRY!!!!!!

When was the last time you saw a player who has worn 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 and 9

What a champion he was.

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Originally Posted by dirge

Yeah I forgot Gidley...

Hayne will probably end up in the second row, but the outside back moving into the pack isn't a new trend. Those that tend to stay in the backs are usually those who don't rely on speed in the first place, like Sailor & Mick Hancock. Wendell had speed, but it was never his greatest asset.

BTW Sam, I'm curious. What made you follow the Storm? A 20 something yeah old Sydneysider into league would normally have had a team already by 1998. Did you suddenly start following league (a late bloomer) or did you switch from Norths?

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I actually used to support the Doggies but then Super League happened and I became disillusioned with the Doggies for turning their backs on the regular comp. Then when the NRL comp started, and the Dragons were playing the Storm in the 99 finals, everyone around me was going for the Dragons (being Sydney and all) so I decided to go for the underdogs. Been a supporter since. :)

Fair enough. You do realise the Storm were Superleague's baby, right? (just askin)

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Originally Posted by dirge

Fair enough. You do realise the Storm were Superleague's baby, right? (just askin)

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But at least they never defected from the NSWRL/ARL... :p

Does anyone else find it sad that Sydney media is waxing lyrical over a team they all were bagging as a spoon contender 2 months ago?

At least it isnt Manly this time! :D

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Originally Posted by dirge

Fair enough. You do realise the Storm were Superleague's baby, right? (just askin)

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Yup, but as trunks stated, they didn't defect like the dogs did and turn their backs on their fans.

How did the Dogs turn their back on their fans? I know there was the Oasis development thing which would have seen them move from Belmore to Liverpool, but I wouldn't call that turning their back? I'm not disagreeing with you, just not sure what you're referring to.

Of course the whole "loyal" thing is relative - I recall how weird the perspectives got back in 1996/1997.

For instance... when Penrith went to Superleague, Brad Fittler was seen as "loyal" by signing with the ARL (and then being able to sign a big fat contract with Easts). Effectively he dumped Penrith and went to the cashed up club (Easts were spending an awful lot on players in the mid 90s). It's a nice way to walk away mid contract and sign a bigger one. I'm not saying that Fittler went to Easts with this motivation (he might have, he might not have), but yeah, despite walking away from his club he was perceived as "loyal".

Ian Roberts was seen as "defecting" when he left Manly and went to North Queensland, because he went to Superleague. Of course, he was defecting from his club. I doubt that North Queensland would have offered a whole lot more than Manly, but he's really in the same boat as Fittler - both walked away from their clubs.

To me it seemed (and still seems) warped that players were expected to be loyal to a competition rather than the team - after all, it's the _team_ that the player signs for, it's the _team_ that the player sweats for (against other teams).

The clubs were very much walking away from the competition, of course - and in many ways that is disloyal. They weren't contractually obliged to stay with that competition (which is what the Supreme Court ruled when it gave Superleague the green light, anyway), but were certainly disloyal. It could be argued that they had justified reasons for abandoning the ARL (Brisbane certainly felt shortchanged, whether or not their reasons were sound is another matter) although some jumped simply because Superleague had signed all their players (Perth, Cronulla).

When I can't follow my team because I have to pay extra to do so (with super league being a Pay TV exclusive), then as far as I concerned, they've turned their back on me.

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Originally Posted by dirge

How did the Dogs turn their back on their fans? I know there was the Oasis development thing which would have seen them move from Belmore to Liverpool, but I wouldn't call that turning their back? I'm not disagreeing with you, just not sure what you're referring to.

Of course the whole "loyal" thing is relative - I recall how weird the perspectives got back in 1996/1997.

For instance... when Penrith went to Superleague, Brad Fittler was seen as "loyal" by signing with the ARL (and then being able to sign a big fat contract with Easts). Effectively he dumped Penrith and went to the cashed up club (Easts were spending an awful lot on players in the mid 90s). It's a nice way to walk away mid contract and sign a bigger one. I'm not saying that Fittler went to Easts with this motivation (he might have, he might not have), but yeah, despite walking away from his club he was perceived as "loyal".

Ian Roberts was seen as "defecting" when he left Manly and went to North Queensland, because he went to Superleague. Of course, he was defecting from his club. I doubt that North Queensland would have offered a whole lot more than Manly, but he's really in the same boat as Fittler - both walked away from their clubs.

To me it seemed (and still seems) warped that players were expected to be loyal to a competition rather than the team - after all, it's the _team_ that the player signs for, it's the _team_ that the player sweats for (against other teams).

The clubs were very much walking away from the competition, of course - and in many ways that is disloyal. They weren't contractually obliged to stay with that competition (which is what the Supreme Court ruled when it gave Superleague the green light, anyway), but were certainly disloyal. It could be argued that they had justified reasons for abandoning the ARL (Brisbane certainly felt shortchanged, whether or not their reasons were sound is another matter) although some jumped simply because Superleague had signed all their players (Perth, Cronulla).

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